Discuss Detroit » DISCUSS DETROIT! » Historic Streetlights in the city » Archive through January 24, 2009 « Previous Next »
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Busterwmu
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Username: Busterwmu

Post Number: 477
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 4:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit has an eclectic mix of streetlights across the city (and including Highland Park and Hamtramck), from posts dating to the late 1800s all the way to modern installations, telephone pole-mounted styles to throwback historic designs being used on Michigan Ave., Woodward, and downtown.

There was a discussion here back in 2007 about some of the older lamp posts in the city, and when they might be from. Over the past couple years, MDOT has led the way to replacing much of the city's traffic light stock, as many of the old signals were failing, unnecessary, out of date (including cloth wiring in some cases!) and generally in an unreliable state. Streetlights, on the other hand (and we all know the reputation of the Detroit Lighting Department) in some places are untouched. A friend and I went out this past Monday to document some of the remaining old streetlight fixtures on the east side of the city, and a few on the west side as well. Follow along our lighting infrastructure past with the photos below, starting at the end of the 19th Century.




This is the Bishop Style light, this example found on Mack at Canton. In the late 1800s, arc-lighting, the first true electric street lighting in the city, was provided downtown on huge iron towers, with several large lights pointing down from above. This proved to be inefficient and dangerous for those who had to replace the carbon insides necessary in early arc-lighting. The replacement became this style of light, the earliest probably dating to the very late 1890s.


small 1

Defining characteristics including the acorn style globe, and "hanging" lamp. A noticeable feature was the trademark bowling pin finial, which is only found on the Bishop style...


small 15

The earliest of the Bishops included pegs going up the hallowed out wooden post (with iron base and iron lamp and decoration at top). These allowed "carbon changers" of the past to replace the carbon element easily within each globe. This example is found on Kercheval.




As the early 1900s wore on, more traditional incandescent lamps replaced the earlier arc-lighting system, and the new Bishop style lights being installed looked essentially the same, but with no pegs, as bulb changes would be much less frequent than carbon element changes. This example is on Mack near Ellery.


small 17

In some cases, the pegs from the earlier models were removed at a later time, as noted here on this example on Mack. The Bishops were initially painted flat black, it seems, and many of these retain the black colors.

Here are some more closeups of Bishop Style lights:


small 4










These above examples are all found on Mack and Kercheval.

And here are some additional photos of full Bishop sets:


indian village

This guy is in Indian Village. Note the pegs, so it is of the older style, however, at some point more recently it received a "Battleship gray" repaint - done in some areas of the city to match newer streetlight installations. (Including some on thoroughfares such as Fort W. and Grand River.)




Some later wiring modifications meant Bishop bowling pins have been removed. The background architecture is nice though, Kercheval at Meldrum.




On the east side... (Kercheval and Helen)




And on the west side... (W. Vernor and 21st)

Some Bishops look like 100 year old warriors, and that would be accurate. Others seem to have been maintained better. Hard to believe that these very lights saw horses and buggies trot underneath! And who knows how many of them still light up at night! It's hard to find solid stretched of these types, as they are so old, many have been replaced with newer varieties or simply knocked out and never replaced. At best, it's interesting to just find a small grouping of 2-4 together. On E. Charlevoix, for example, a whole stand of these old warriors has been cut down right to the iron base, and new lights installed in between. Across the city, there are also many that have been "Bastardized" so to speak, with old poles remaining but new light fixtures replacing the acorn globes (Indian Village streets are a prime example). Function today obviously follows form...

...or does it?

Beginning with the construction of Comerica Park and Ford Field, an unusual stroke of replication dawned in Detroit. Witness: the new Bishops! Based on exact replicas, new stands of Bishops have since been appearing in various places around the city: Woodward from I-75 past Wayne State toward I-94, Michigan Ave. from The Lodge to I-96 (Tiger Stadium/MCS area) and Livernois west to Wyoming, Broadway and Gratiot downtown, Monroe, etc. Although completely modern with modern bulbs, steel poles, etc, they are 100% a heritage Detroit design, harkening back over 100 years. Compare:


Michigan Ave 1


Michigan Ave 2

Both found on Michigan Ave. just west of Michigan Central Station. How cool is that?!

But back to the History Books. In 1916, Detroit began to widen some of it's major thoroughfares. At this same time, "traditional" traffic lights began to see use, although not as widespread until the 1920s and 1930s. Coexisting with both of these was the development of another Detroit streetlight style:


Van Dyke & Kercheval

The Pineapple Light. For lack of a better term! Distinctive features include the acanthus leaf type motif holding the lamp to the pole, the fluted column, the acorn globe, and most notably, the pineapple shaped finial "Welcoming" people to the streets.




Here is a closeup of some of the detail on an example on Kercheval. In some places where roads were widened, these lights replaces all previous examples (Michigan Avenue and Gratiot, some places on Fort and Grand River). On main streets that were not spoke roads, but still important, they tended to be placed at prominent corners, often in conjunction with new traffic lights mounted from them. Originally painted a deep green, many were later painted battleship gray to match newer installations. It is still possible to find a few of the old green ones, if you look carefully:




Kercheval & Concord, with an old Bishop behind.




Closeup at Van Dyke & Kercheval.




Battleship gray example, in Indian Village at Kercheval & Burns.




Here is an interesting stand of the 1916 type on Linwood.

In some cases (Michigan Ave. and Gratiot), the fancy acanthus leaves and old globes have all been replaced with modern "cobrahead" type lamps, but the old fluted poles and many pineapples survive.

There are a few other old types of lights around the city. The double globed lamps along Lower Woodward from I-75 to the River date from the 30s (though most have new "old" globes) and used to also be found on other downtown streets such as Griswold). Some unique "goose-neck" types can be found along east Vernor. Other examples, some mounted on telephone poles, abound around town. Take a glance around next time you drive down a Detroit sidestreet and see if you spot any interesting types!

And now, for fun, here are a few other photos from our tour around the city:




Old Traffic light installation still in service on Van Dyke near Jefferson.




Another old traffic light installation at E. Grand Boulevard and Moran. Note this one still has a green pole, most are gray for the same reason many streetlights have been repainted.


Engine 23

Engine 23 company also at the corner of Moran and E. Grand.


Chene & Canfield

Another old traffic light set, at Chene and E. Canfield, still in red-yellow-green service! Some of these installations date from the late 40s and early 50s!

So, I hope you enjoyed our little tour. Here is the link to the 2007 thread if anyone would like to review it. Feel free to post your own sightings, questions, photos, comments.
https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/messages/91697/101211.html
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 3377
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 4:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Buster! What fabulous streetlight scholarship.

My two cents: It often seems that the places with old streetlights tend to also have their original limestone curbs.
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 2422
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 4:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Very nice bit of reporting, Buster. I late friend of mine had somewhat of a fetish about streetlights, and dragged some of them home after they had been disconnected by the city, or just plain abandonded, as were some on certain Belle Isle bridges--all of this foolishness took place over 30 years ago. He would have enjoyed your piece greatly.
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 3821
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 5:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excellent photoessay! Thanks much; I learned a valuable lesson today!
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Big_baby_jebus
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Username: Big_baby_jebus

Post Number: 44
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 5:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Awesome knowledge of the street, thanks!
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French777
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Username: French777

Post Number: 640
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 6:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

THANK YOU!!

Im glad im not the only one that just LOVES the Detroit Historic Streetlights
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Sumas
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Username: Sumas

Post Number: 591
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 7:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you for sharing. It was a pleasure to view and read your post.
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Waz
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Username: Waz

Post Number: 272
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 8:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's amazing some of the beautiful detail in things we take for granted. I will definitely pay more attention to the old streetlamps after viewing those close-up shots. Very nice.

They seemed to do everything with greater attention to detail way back when. Not to mention building things to last! Thanks for sharing, Busterwmu.
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 3739
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some of those traffic lights will either be gone or replaced in the next 10 years.

We simply don't have the critical mass or traffic for many of them.

I mean seriously, I only see 2 cars driving down Chene (in the picture above) and there are no people to generate the needed foot traffic.

As for the 1916 streetlights, they also aligned Van Dyke from Harper to 8 Mile before before the street was repaired (the lights were replaced by terrible/cheap wooden poles).
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Eric_c
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Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 694
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 8:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Very nice. Like details on our older buildings, these lovely "relics" come from a time when most people were walking and not blazing by at 45 mph. Why not have something pleasant to look at, eh?!
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7051
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Username: 7051

Post Number: 194
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 9:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mention was made of limestone curbs.

Many "newer" neighborhoods (1920's. 30', possible 40's) have limestone curbs at corners. In my neighborhood (the Univ. District- built 20's and 30's) many corner curbs have been replaced with handicap ramps/curb cuts and the limestone removed.

Any idea if all the curbs in my nw neighborhood were limestone at one time and have been replaced my numerous street repavings or were only the corners limestone and if so, why??
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Andyguard73
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Username: Andyguard73

Post Number: 295
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for a great read Buster!
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Hamtragedy
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Username: Hamtragedy

Post Number: 353
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 1:00 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The old limestone curbs were not only at corners but lined the streets. Many are sunken or at the same grade as the asphalt in Grandmont. These pieces are usually about 24 inches wide and 4 inches thick, and range anywhere from 2 feet to 5 feet long. Not to mention, they are ridiculously heavy. We salvaged a few when they ripped up Evergreen a few years ago. You can still find them all over the west side.
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Hamtragedy
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Username: Hamtragedy

Post Number: 354
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 1:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Awesome post Buster. I see the occasional downed lamp (hit by a car sliding thru the snow) and have often had half a mind to just load it onto the back of my truck. One sat at Oakland and E. Boston for several months, complete with footpegs, the wood snapped at the iron base.

That picture of Linwood reminds me of Grand River in the eighties.

I thought they did a major disservance to the Lodge when they installed those "construction grade" lamps, and then left them.

BTW, if you ever ride I-94 West into Chicago at night from Indiana (not the skyway, and way before the El) the streetlights protrude from the median, are of an exaggerated height, fairly close together and stunningly beautiful as they branch over both directions of the roadway, hundreds of them, all perfectly plum.
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Eastsideal
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Username: Eastsideal

Post Number: 209
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Posted on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 2:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great stuff Buster. I love all the background you gave and the fruits of the research that you've obviously done, as well as the attention to detail. I also, of course, enjoy the fact that so many of the pictures are from my stomping grounds, and I especially enjoyed seeing the house where one of my best friends in elementary school lived in the background of one of your pictures.

Your photos also reminded me that the hanging lamp on one of those old bishop's crook style lights almost kept me from living beyond the 7th grade.

I was waiting for a bus under one of those lights one morning when the older brother of a friend of mine drove by in a station wagon. Apparently he had a beef with one of the older kids waiting with me at the bus stop and yelled something at him as he passed. The kid at the bus stop yelled something back and gave him the finger, whereupon the driver of the station wagon screeched to a halt and began backing up speedily in our direction. Intent, I guess, on mowing down his foe. However, he misjudged the width of his car and smacked the lightpole hard with the corner of his back bumper. The pole began to topple and I jumped out of the way, not realizing that the light itself had been only hanging there loose, and had now become separated from the pole and was falling towards me. I suddenly heard it whistle by my head - missing braining me by about an inch - followed by it crashing loudly to the sidewalk in a spray of glass that showered me and one of my poor female classmates standing next to me.

Fortunately, we escaped with nothing more than a few little nicks. The pole ended up leaning in midair at a precarious angle. And the embarrassed driver of the station wagon, with parts of his car now dragging on the street, sped off in a shower of sparks while his antagonist laughed his ass off.
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Rid0617
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Username: Rid0617

Post Number: 379
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 4:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hate to say we are backwards but the majority of our traffic lights even in the bigger cities are the ones you showed.
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Beech_cricker
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Username: Beech_cricker

Post Number: 29
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 7:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Buster, great post, info and pix. I like this kind of stuff. In fact, I have taken a few pix of old streetlights in the city. I need to do more of that before they are gone. I've always appreciated these lights for their history and classy look. I didn't know how far back many of these go--I guess I didn't put two in two together with the pegs visible on some poles.

A few questions:

(1) Do you know who manufactured the various streetlights? And where?

(2) Have you attempted to take any night or twilight photos of these streetlights performing their function?

(3) Have you formally published any of your work?

Thank you for sharing this very interesting information.
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Johnnie_sue_bridges
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Username: Johnnie_sue_bridges

Post Number: 17
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 8:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Busterwmu

This is a very interesting thread. I am an author/photographer, and when I was running around Detroit trying to get photos for my book, this is when I began to notice all the different kinds of streetlights.

My daughter was working on the book cover recreating the streetlight that stood in front of my house on 35th Street when my nephew walked by and said, “Hey, that is a button top light, I did a study on the different kinds of lights here in Detroit.” Also, he called our attention to the many different ways the street sign brackets are mounted. I found this so interesting that I began to head out around the city shooting (with my camera) LOL every streetlight I could find. I had no clue; I was absolutely engulfed with all the many different varieties. Thank you for sharing.
God bless
Johnnie Sue Bridges
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Xd_brklyn
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Username: Xd_brklyn

Post Number: 365
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 9:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the thread. Glad to have some names and vocabulary to put to those old streetlights when viewing them. I'll now be taking a second look at the older street fixtures elsewhere too. Thanks again.
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Retroit
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Username: Retroit

Post Number: 821
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 4:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great information, Busterwmu!

It's good to see the old style lamp posts making a comeback in the city. I have to wonder about their uses in other non-historic areas of Metro Detroit, though. For example, on Telegraph Road in Taylor, a thoroughly modern late-20th Century thoroughfare, they have installed late-19th Century lamp posts. Although very beautiful, they create a visual dissonance that is quite displeasing.
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 9211
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Posted on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 4:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HOF material, I think. Well done.
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Mauser765
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Username: Mauser765

Post Number: 2904
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 5:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Classic info !

Hey, theres a sort of street light museum along Outer Drive just north of U of D Jesuit High. (forumer 'jim' pointed these out) Just west of Livernois.

There is a run of several different varieties of the south side of OD. Like they used whatever they had left over, or were trying out different styles - very odd.
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Goat
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Username: Goat

Post Number: 2759
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Posted on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 5:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is HOF material. Thanks for the history lesson. If only Windsor card this much about streetlights we might still have some decent buildings left.
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Sludgedaddy
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Username: Sludgedaddy

Post Number: 271
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 6:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excellent research job, sir! Let me insert a Mea Culpa from my days as a 13 year old street urchin. Those globes that house the lamps are not glass, but plastic. With my fellow Droogies, we would spend a good portion of an afternoon trying to knock one off with rocks. After what seemed like hours, we finally managed to knock one down and would place it over each of our heads ala a 1950's sci-fi space helmet. Looking like the "B" movie "Robot Monster" garnered a few laughs. Bless me, Father, For I have sinned...
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Bobl
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Username: Bobl

Post Number: 416
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Posted on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well done! Thanks for the great presentation.
I would add that, in addition to the beauty of the old lights, they were replaced or repaired within forty eight hours of when they were reported.
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Busterwmu
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Username: Busterwmu

Post Number: 479
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the wonderful comments. I really owe much of the research presented here to my friend and fellow photographer on this day, Michael. I don't claim to be an expert by any means, but it's just something one can see today that can also be found in photos 100 years back. I'd love to be able to get a photo from 1910 say, and a photo from today, taken in the exact same place where the old lamp posts are still there.

The limestone curbs are an interesting topic, and I fully believe they would coincide in many places with the old lamps. A bit harder to tell on a snowy day, however. Sounds like an expedition for the summer months!

I do not know who manufactured the streetlights, although occasionally you can still find an old Bishop light that has the original PLC plate covering the electrical connections at the base. The new reproductions also have the PLC ornament on the base.

I appreciate all your stories and interest. Just as interesting to read!

I was driving on Fort Street on the southwest side today and have some additional notes. From the Detroit Produce Terminal west to the Lawndale intersections, nearly every light in place is a 1916 Pineapple variety, although many have now lost their pineapples. All at one time were painted Battleship Gray to match newer fixtures along the street, and the paint on most of them is peeling quite badly. Three of them on the north side of Fort just east of Harbough were repainted gray a couple years back, but they too are beginning to peel. Anyhow, a decent stand of the 1916 types is down there. Also, various gray painted Bishop lights exist from SW High School down Fort to about Dearborn St., some look ok, others are really looking rough. Additional 1916 types are in place between Dearborn and Miller/Reisner, but they're some of the worst I've seen, many lave lost their globes and light fixtures all together. :-(

Anyhow, I appreciate the comments, and am glad you all enjoyed. Much thanks to Michael for some of these photos and his research and interest.
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6nois
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Username: 6nois

Post Number: 787
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 9:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When they were removing the old Bishop lamps on Cass this summer I so wanted to take one. I think it would make a great light in my apartment. They are so neat. Sadly I didn't have a big enough car to hall it back.

As for limestone curbs I have one on my street. I think they are a bit more common than the lights in that they last after the lights are replaced often because the road has to be redone for the curb to be changed, even that isn't a promise though.
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Aluminum
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Username: Aluminum

Post Number: 19
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Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 1:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Illuminating Concepts of Farmington Hills was extensily involoved in the design of the new Bishop and the Washington fixtures. I remember reading in a lighting trade magazine how the designer went around town studying the lights and even going to a scrap yard to collect pieces to use in the design. I think they are the official Lighting Designers for the City of Detroit.
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 2254
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Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 6:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hall of fame worthy thread, thanx Buster.
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Burnsie
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Username: Burnsie

Post Number: 1169
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Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 10:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wonderful photos, Buster.

By the way, are those limestone curbs actually limestone, or granite? Some around Tiger Stadium near the lumber company are definitely granite (dark pink).