 
English
Member
Username: English
Post Number: 436
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 2:43 pm: |    |
OK, new debate --
Beans vs. no beans?
Discuss.  |
Jcole
Member
Username: Jcole
Post Number: 5755
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 2:53 pm: | |
No beans. Just a bowl of red |
Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13
Post Number: 2067
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 3:11 pm: | |
Beans in chili should be illegal. The original chili recipes from late 19th-century Texas never included beans. Beans were often served on the side, though, separately. This is still the case in Texas today.
As chili's popularity spread throughout the U.S. in the early 20th century, beans were added to many chili recipes, probably as a cost-saving measure (beans are cheaper than meat). I know of people who take spaghetti sauce, add chili powder and beans, and call it chili (ugh).
It's my understanding that anyone who uses beans in their recipe in an officially-sanctioned CASI or ICS chili cookoff is summarily disqualified. Beans are considered "filler" and frowned upon. |
Slick
Member
Username: Slick
Post Number: 52
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 3:18 pm: | |
"original chili recipes from late 19th-century Texas"
It is not neccessary to argue with a Texan about beans in chili. Us Yankees always add beans. |
Jcole
Member
Username: Jcole
Post Number: 5757
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 4:27 pm: | |
No, us Yankee's don't. |
12468_laing
Member
Username: 12468_laing
Post Number: 381
Registered: 07-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 4:36 pm: | |
anyone remember getting a great bowl of chili down at Soup Kitchen Saloon off Jefferson? used to go there in the late 70's or early 80's. great stuff. |
Paczki
Member
Username: Paczki
Post Number: 92
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 5:31 pm: | |
About a quarter teaspoon of baking soda will cut the acid from the tomato sauce. When you put it in the pot it will cause the chili to foam a bit but once it continues to cook for a while the foam will disapear. |
Texorama
Member
Username: Texorama
Post Number: 346
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 6:04 pm: | |
The whole no-beans thing is a myth. Plenty of Texas chili parlors offer chili with beans. It's purely a matter of preference. Personally I think they add variety and body, and the flavor becomes more complex as the chili ages if it has beans in it. |
Whaler
Member
Username: Whaler
Post Number: 148
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 8:50 pm: | |
I agree Texorama... Flavor is Everything..But in The True Chili Cook Off..A friend of mine Chef Mial Parker..Says No beans..I would go for vegies and beans..But check him out he has won 3 Gold Medals at the Cullenery Olympics...But I still say everything goes..Flavor is everything |
Chrissy_snow
Member
Username: Chrissy_snow
Post Number: 444
Registered: 07-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 8:59 pm: | |
You guys are making me want chili tomorrow!
I'm known in the family as the master chili chef - but I don't have anything written down, I just throw stuff in, lol. Over the years, you just KNOW.
My mom used to come over and throw sugar in my pot, she would do that with my spaghetti too, and I never could figure out why. Now I do it and I notice the difference, it cuts the bite just enough to make it more pleasing.
I love the ideas above, might try some of them! I like to add chopped green and red pepper, along with onion and garlic. But one thing I've started doing lately is using organic beef purchased from Meijer, along with organic veggies, and everyone comments that "for some reason" the taste is amazing and different. That's got to be it, the higher quality of meat and fresher tasting vegs.
I have NEVER bought any chili in a restaurant that tasted decent. |
Roq
Member
Username: Roq
Post Number: 2
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 9:05 pm: | |
People actually care about chili ingredients? |
Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13
Post Number: 2068
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 9:06 pm: | |
Yep. A lot. |
Roq
Member
Username: Roq
Post Number: 3
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 9:09 pm: | |
"Yep. A lot."
I'm sorry. |
Warrenite84
Member
Username: Warrenite84
Post Number: 496
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 9:29 pm: | |
One of the best i've had that has a smoky tomato sauce consistancy is the chili at Red, Hot, and Blues on VanDyke north of 14 mile. They use smoked beef brisket, a little cheddar, and a dollop of sour cream. Yum! Don't care for the kidney beans though. |
Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13
Post Number: 2070
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 9:35 pm: | |
Texorama, I lived in Texas for 8 years and I never saw a Texas chili parlor serve chili with beans in it. Never, and I've been from Dallas to San Antonio, to San Angelo, to Houston, to Lubbock. |
Moetown
Member
Username: Moetown
Post Number: 26
Registered: 07-2008
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 4:12 am: | |
The best chili, no beans, I have found locally is from the longhorn steakhouse chain, good ribs too. |
Sumas
Member
Username: Sumas
Post Number: 712
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 6:06 am: | |
I use no bean chili as a topping for mexican dishes I make but when it comes to Chili in a bowl I have to have beans. I use only the dark red kidney beans. Using a bay leaf sounded interesting, I'll get it a try. |
Jman
Member
Username: Jman
Post Number: 237
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 7:54 am: | |
I'm a proponet of Springfield chilli. No mispelling here, they use two l's. Something about the first four letters of Illinois. Before you just pass this over, you should know that Joe DeFrates of Springfield is the only person to ever hold both the National and World chili championships for his recipe.
Years ago, when I was a child, you could find a "chilli parlor" on most every corner in Springfield with as many different recipes. One thing the recipes had in common is ground beef and no tomato products. In a few chilli parlors you could order it with or without beans. Most served it with beans, which is my my favorite. I have always liked chili with cubed beef without beans but ground beef with beans.
Joe Defrates had a company that he sold to Milnot many years ago before his death. It has since been sold again but they are still in business. They have quite an interesting website at www.chilliman.com |
Bigb23
Member
Username: Bigb23
Post Number: 3788
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 7:55 am: | |
I always added a tablespoon of Grape jelly to the pot of Chili to cut the acid.
I also collected about 100 hand written chili recipes in the years before the Internet and printers.
I believe the original no bean, was called Chile Con Carne. |
Corvax
Member
Username: Corvax
Post Number: 18
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 8:53 am: | |
Jman,
Hope you're enjoying the Lincoln festivities.
No tomato products?? Got a recipe? |
Jman
Member
Username: Jman
Post Number: 239
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 9:13 am: | |
"Got a recipe" I wish. It took my Father 10 to 15 years to develop his recipe which was excellent. Unfortunately he passed away before passing the recipe on.
When a person bought a chilli parlor in Springfield they paid x amount for the business and 10 times that for the chilli recipe.
Lincoln festivities? All my relatives are from central Illinios but I was born and raised right here in Highland Park. I am going to Springfield this summer to see the new Lincoln Museum and will absolutely stop at one or two of the few chilli parlors remaining. |
Jman
Member
Username: Jman
Post Number: 240
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 9:20 am: | |
Looking at the various recipes here I've noticed that only Slick has cumin listed.
If it ain't got no cumin, it ain't chili. |
Kryptonite
Member
Username: Kryptonite
Post Number: 85
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 9:29 am: | |
Personally I would never make chili without beans, I usually use 2 or 3 kinds and always use far more beans than ground beef . I have even put corn in my chili and once I had it in the South with cabbage which I also liked.
Always a bay leaf or two. Serrano peppers in chili rule. |
Corvax
Member
Username: Corvax
Post Number: 19
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 10:50 am: | |
Jman,
Isn't cumin a main ingredient in the chili powder?
How do you make chili w/no tomato products?
Thinking about the grape jelly idea above, it might be interesting to replace the sugar with a couple tablespoons of, say, organic juice-sweetened Mi cherries for an interesting note
How are things in HP? I finished 8th grade at St Ben's in 1970 |
Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13
Post Number: 2074
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 10:59 am: | |
"How do you make chili w/no tomato products?
Chile peppers, lots of meat and meat broth, onions, spices (garlic, cumin, salt, pepper, sugar or honey), thickener. Many chili recipes use no tomato products; that's 19th century cowboy/trail style. |
Topflight
Member
Username: Topflight
Post Number: 66
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 11:04 am: | |
Okay Chili Buffs
I'm sponsoring a community chili cook-off strictly for bragging rights a traveling trophy and other prizes. I need contestants are you willing? "Knock Your Boots Off" Chili Cook-Off
Entry $10 per cook/team Saturday February 28, 2009 12-5PM It is part of the Cody/Rouge SnowBlast Winter Festival and Community Resource Fair visit our website at www.freewebs.com/codyrougewint erfestival
applications can obtained by emailing me at codyrougewinterfesival at yahoo dot com
Bump |
Jman
Member
Username: Jman
Post Number: 241
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 11:28 am: | |
I wasn't aware until now that cumin was an ingredient in chili powder. Shows what a great chef I am. I always add additional cumin to my chili. My homemade chili is much like the recipes above, tomatoes, peppers etc. My apologies to all of the recipes holders above.
Springfield type chilli is not, as you can well imagine a soupy type of chili. Even the construction is completely different. My Dad would take all day making a batch starting out by rendering suet down in a cast iron skillet. There were various spices and ground chuck that he would break down into fine pieces. When everything was complete he would put the mixture in Ball canning jars and refrigerate for two weeks. When preparing to serve, the dark red kidney beans were cooked seperately (fresh beans, never canned) while the chilli mixture was heated in a double boiler. The drained beans were then put in a shallow soup bowl with the chilli mixture spread on top. Most Springfield chilli is very spicy but not to much heat. The Texas guys would hate it. If you order a doubleheader in Springfield, they put two tamales on top.
I graduated from H.P.H.S. in 1958 and moved to Detroit in 1961. |
Corvax
Member
Username: Corvax
Post Number: 20
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 11:29 am: | |
Fury--
Got one of those cowboy recipes?
What do you think about replacing the sugar with a bit of fruit preserve or reduced fruit juice? |
Jcole
Member
Username: Jcole
Post Number: 5765
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 11:33 am: | |
If you use ground chiles, you need to add cumin and other spices. If you use chili powder, it has the other spices in it. It depends on the manufacturer as to what's in it. |
Texorama
Member
Username: Texorama
Post Number: 347
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 11:40 am: | |
Fury13, the Texas Chili Parlor in Austin and Tolbert's in Dallas (now in Grapevine, I think) are two famous institutions that serve chili with beans. Certainly there are others that don't.
Have you all tried the Mexicantown chili spice mix? I think it makes a decent quick chili. |
Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13
Post Number: 2075
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 12:00 pm: | |
Texorama, the place I used to go in San Antonio was called Lupita's Cafe No. 2. It had been around since the '30s and had classic, great chili. I don't know if it still exists. Most of the good chili joints in Texas in the '80s were old-time diners or cafes like that. |
Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13
Post Number: 2076
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 12:07 pm: | |
This is a basic, classic chili recipe (my personal recipe is based on this but is augmented):
Frank X. Tolbert's Original Bowl of Texas Red
This recipe has, several times, won the Annual Texas Chili Cook-off Held in Luckenbach, TX.
Ingredients:
12 dried ancho chiles (New Mexico chiles may be subsititued)
3 pounds lean beef chuck, cut in thumb-sized pieces
2 ounces beef suet
1 tablespoon ground cumin
1 teaspoon dried oregano
1 tablespoon cayenne
1 tablespoon Tabasco sauce
2 or more garlic cloves, chopped
1 tablespoon salt
3 tablespoons chili powder (optional -- "If you want to be adventurous and add more red color")
2 tablespoons Masa Harina ("To thicken or `tighten' the chili) you can use ordinary cornmeal if you don't have Masa."
Directions:
"Wash the peppers and remove the stems and seeds. (Don't touch your eyes.) Boil the pods in a little water for 30 minutes, or until the skins can be removed easily. Then grind, chop or run through a colander the now skinless, seedless, stemless pods.
"Save the peppery water in which the pods were boiled. Use it for cooking the chili and for adding water if necessary. Be as conservative as possible with water unless you want the chili to be soupy.
"Sear the 3 pounds of beef until it is gray in color. Into the pot, drop the beef, the optional rendered suet, the pepper pods and as much of the peppery liquid as you think you'll need to keep the meat from burning. About 2 inches of water rising above the beef is usually right.
"Bring this to a boil and then turn down the heat and simmer for 30 minutes.
"Take the pot off the stove. Add [the other ingredients]. Put the mixture back on the stove and bring it to a boil again, lower the heat, and simmer for 45 minutes, keeping the lid on as much as possible. Stir when necessary, but too much stirring will tear up the meat. Add the peppered water only if you think the mixture will burn otherwise.
"Take the pot off the stove again. . . . [Add the masa harina.] Cook, actually simmer most of the way, for another 30 minutes, or until the meat is done. During this last 30 minutes, do a lot of tasting to see if the seasoning suits you."
Number Of Servings: 4 - 6
I use beef, buffalo, and lamb in my recipe, and add whiskey, beer, pureed bell peppers and onions, and a little honey.
The fruit juice or preserve might work, Corvax, as long as the flavor doesn't intrude on the chili. It might be interesting to try that. |
Tsomyak
Member
Username: Tsomyak
Post Number: 98
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 2:14 pm: | |
I like the masa harina as a thickener as well. There are some chili kits you can buy that include it, Rick Fowler's Three Alarm chili mix is one, I believe. I've found it before in Detroit groceries, if anyone cares to try it. |
Alfie1a
Member
Username: Alfie1a
Post Number: 170
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 1:53 pm: | |
12468 lainge says: "anyone remember getting a great bowl of chili down at Soup Kitchen Saloon off Jefferson? used to go there in the late 70's or early 80's. great stuff."
That was great chili. On the menu, it was called "Capital Punishment." The only restaurant chili i ever liked. They put a dollop of sour cream on top.
I love making chili. Here's a couple hints I hope you all find helpful:
Ground beef, not hamburger. Hint: do not break the meat up, keep it as a chunk right from the package. Brown the meat like you're making a hamburger. When its browned on both sides to your satisfaction, then slice your chunk of meat so you open up the uncooked center and repeat. Only then do you want to break in up. This way, you wind up with chunks of meat rather than having it all crumbly.
I like to add round steak to my recipe. I clean and trim the meat first. Then along with some flour, i beat the crap out ot the steak with one of those meat tenderizing hammers. The flour works to thicken up your chili.
spicy smoked sausage. I love this in my chili. For best results, cook the hell out of it before adding it to your chili.
bay leaves, onion powder, garlic powder, oragano, fresh garlic, a little sugar and lotsa onion and peppers. I usually get an assortment, whatever they have including sweet bell peppers of all colors, just for fun. Ground ceyanne if more heat is needed, which is usually the case. Of course, tomato sauce and stewed tomatos. Some like and some don't like beans. I like them in my chili but its just as good without. Brooks chili hot beans are great. And I add some kidney beans, sometimes chick peas for a difference.
Another must have ingredient: One 12 pack of your favorite beer. One bottle for the chili, the remainder to be consumed as you create your chef d’oeuvre. |
1kielsondrive
Member
Username: 1kielsondrive
Post Number: 883
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 11:42 pm: | |
My mother was a former Texan and she ALWAYS made chili WITH beans. |
1kielsondrive
Member
Username: 1kielsondrive
Post Number: 884
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 11:57 pm: | |
PS: My mothers recipe was developed from Mexicans, military personnel, ranchers and cowboys, all within our family. I don't remember any debate over beans/no beans in my family, though I've heard it from many friends and acquaintances who've made chili for competitions. I think it's all a personal choice. I've had excellent chili's both ways. |
1kielsondrive
Member
Username: 1kielsondrive
Post Number: 885
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 12:00 am: | |
Thanks to all for the topic and recipes. I hope this thread keeps going for a while. I'm really enjoying it. It's a nice change from all of the arguing (as opposed to debating) and name calling. |
1kielsondrive
Member
Username: 1kielsondrive
Post Number: 893
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 1:12 am: | |
You bunch of beans, no beans, 'chili heads'! |
Old_guy
Member
Username: Old_guy
Post Number: 452
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 3:31 pm: | |
Bigb23, just for the record, con carne means with meat.
On a side note, my favorite chili is made with ground venison. With or without beans. |
Bobl
Member
Username: Bobl
Post Number: 527
Registered: 07-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 3:42 pm: | |
With beans is good.
Without beans is good.
With meat is good.
Without meat is not so good.
With beer is best. |
Old_guy
Member
Username: Old_guy
Post Number: 453
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 4:54 pm: | |
I've watched a number of chili cook-offs and noticed a few tricks that some cooks use to win. After fully cooking their chili, they would take it off the fire and put the kettle directly into a huge cooler with dry ice. They cool it down and then put it back on the heat, bringing the temperature up slowly. It operates under the theory that it's better on the second day and it seems to work. I've seen two different people win using that technique.
And yes, you do need beer. |
Detroitplanner
Member
Username: Detroitplanner
Post Number: 2250
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 5:04 pm: | |
Has no one mentioned Lafayette Coney Island Chili? |
Angry_dad
Member
Username: Angry_dad
Post Number: 305
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 7:06 pm: | |
To continue the debate, I swear by using a pound of pork sausage along with the two pounds of ground beef. I'm likely alone on the required (by me) coarse cut celery. And these days, when beans go in, they always include black beans. And to add more fuel to the fire, crock pots were invented to cook chili. Their use is mandatory. |
Slick
Member
Username: Slick
Post Number: 54
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 3:37 pm: | |
"crock pots were invented to cook chili."
I beg to differ. Crock pots were invented to replace wives. You know dinner will be ready when you get home!
Hay, its a joke! |
1kielsondrive
Member
Username: 1kielsondrive
Post Number: 938
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 9:24 pm: | |
Chili is meant to be experimented with. I knew a guy (quite) a few years back that won the state Chili Cook Off a couple of times. I think it was in Saline in those days. He had some pretty strict rules for his competition chili. Of course, I think the competition rules required certain ingredients and cooking methods. This guy maintained he always experimented with his own chili recipes and ingredients. I was fortunate enough to sample a few of his different chili's. He never made a bad one that I tasted - beans, no beans, red beans, white beans, ground beef, steak, tomatoes, rice, pork, venison, etc, etc. |
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