  Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 971 Registered: 04-2008 |
Even if you're not interested in airplanes, there are a couple of aerial shots of downtown Detroit (slides 85 & 200). http://public.fotki.com/Kos/me mbers_photo_galle/wiilow_run_b omber/?cmd=fs_slideshow | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3515 Registered: 07-2004 |
Anybody remember the disparaging nickname for the plant during its troubled setup during the early part of WWII?  | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5273 Registered: 06-2004 |
Yes, I do but I'm tired of disparaging remarks. What's the story on the jet propulsion assembly?? I never knew about that! Was it for testing or were these used as rockets? | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3526 Registered: 07-2004 |
I like disparaging nicknames, but only when they're apt and funny. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5276 Registered: 06-2004 |
but after a while it gets like listening to the old man tell his same stories over and over and over again as if he's never told us before | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3528 Registered: 07-2004 |
That explains it. In my family, when dad told the same story over again, we all relaxed because we knew we weren't going to get walloped for five whole minutes. (Message edited by detroitnerd on February 16, 2009) | ||
Mopardan Member Username: Mopardan Post Number: 141 Registered: 11-2008 |
Thanks for the link! The B-24 is my favorite WWII bomber. I believe there are just a handful left that are in flying condition after over 18k were built. I enjoyed the aerial pictures as well as the interior shots of the plant. LP, wish I could give you an answer about the Jet Propulsion assembly. One of the captions stated it looked very similar to the one used on Germany's V-1 "Buzz Bombs". Taking a guess here, but maybe plans were "obtained" or a crashed one used as a model. | ||
Senior Member Username: Senior Post Number: 35 Registered: 10-2004 |
Detroitnerd: What was the nickname? If Lilpup takes offence, tough nuggets. I worked at Willow Run after the war years, and had some interesting excursions exploring the remnants of the turntable and sandpile out in the middle of the airfield. We did this exploring during the midnight shift so we weren't detected. A great place, and some neat memories. Senior | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 3872 Registered: 11-2007 |
My dad was a waist gunner on a B-24 in Italy during WWII. At one of the Selfridge air shows, I got to step inside a B-24, and couldn't believe how small the fuselage was inside. I could put my palms on both bulkheads at the same time. That must have been terrifying in there, during a bomb run/firefight. He never spoke much of that time, but received the Flying Cross with oak leaves for bravery, and flew 52 missions. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3532 Registered: 07-2004 |
Senior: They had some serious problems getting the line working. They weren't anywhere near meeting production demands for at least a year or two. In that period of grim speculation, it was, for a time, dubbed "Willit Run"? | ||
Mopardan Member Username: Mopardan Post Number: 144 Registered: 11-2008 |
BigB23, my dad was a turret gunner on a B-25 & blister gunner on a Catalina in the SW Pacific. I got in a B-25 turret at an airshow a few years ago & cannot fathom how he squeezed in there as he was a broad shouldered guy. I almost couldn't get through the "tunnel" between the nose & flight deck as it was so narrow. About the B-24, my understanding is the only way out was a rear door...imagine trying to get your chute on, then make your way out of a damaged aircraft. As you state, terrifying! I think the bomb bay could be used, but if the doors were closed or damaged... Senior, were those areas considered off limits? More info I thought was interesting: http://www.assemblymag.com/CDA/Articles/Web_Exclusive/c7dfeddacb5c9010VgnVCM100000f932a8c0____ "Because of the wartime shortage of men, most of the assemblers were women. Each B-24 required 313,237 rivets, so there was plenty of work for "Rosie the Riveter" and her peers. The Willow Run assembly line also employed 10 "midgets" who were recruited from circus sideshows and the entertainment industry. They proved invaluable for confined space assembly tasks, such as crawling inside wingtips to buck rivets." "(Charles) Sorensen and his team installed a series of 136 separate conveyors in the plant, which were powered by 75 drive units. A large bridge-type conveyor system, designed by (Albert) Kahn, fed fuselage sections into the assembly line similar to the way bodies are "dropped" in automobile assembly." "The engineering team created special production procedures for wing assembly, which reduced production time per unit from 13 days to just 1 hour. A wide variety of new fixtures were also Developing a fixture where the bulky fuselage section could be quickly and accurately mated with the 55-foot center wing was the biggest challenge faced by the engineers." (Message edited by MoparDan on February 17, 2009) | ||
Senior Member Username: Senior Post Number: 36 Registered: 10-2004 |
MoparDan: The area was out in the center of the basic airfield apron and taxiway, similar to being on the runways. I was a college student at Michigan Normal, now E.M.U., in Ypsilanti, and worked for Eastern Air Lines on the baggage handling crew. I was on the Midnight shift, and our crew was composed of twenty-somethings with various personalities, all having a tremendously curious nature. The Midnight shift had more "free" time available to nose around, and on the occasions when I was caught up on homework and the timing was right, we were prone to explore the great areas of interest at Willow Run Airport. The whole ceiling area of the Terminal was designed to hide the "hangar" structure behind it. The catwalks and passageways above and behind the false ceiling were an interesting study, as were the other structural features hidden by all the remodeling done to make it a beautiful airport. My favorite spot, however, was the turntable used to rotate the B-24's as the various machine guns were aimed and tested. There was a little operator's cabin which still had the brake handle used to control the rotation of the turntable for each firing position. Rooting through the sandpile was interesting, and yielded some souvenir rusting slugs, but my most popular time-killer was going UNDER the turntable. It was possible to drop down a trap-door into the understructure of the support system for the turntable. This ingenious device was supported by a series of tapered cement rings, with the avenue to the center through a series of offset openings leading through the rings. The rings had a flat top which carried the wheels enabling the rotation to be sucessful. I spent a lot of time crawling around under the turntable with a flashlight, at all times admiring the design principles, and obviously impressed by the design. Senior | ||
Raptor56 Member Username: Raptor56 Post Number: 772 Registered: 05-2007 |
That must have been something back in the day. Living in southeast MI and seeing all those different planes being built and flying around. I imagine Selfridge had a lot more air traffic than it does now as well. | ||
Peachlaser Member Username: Peachlaser Post Number: 275 Registered: 08-2006 |
Very interesting. I heard many stories from my father talking about when he worked at the 'Bummer Plant'. He once said that he built a part for the Ford Tri-Motor. I saw a photo of a Tri-Motor in the series so that put Willow Run, the Tri-Motor and my father's story together. Thanks for the link! | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1527 Registered: 11-2003 |
Thanks for your interesting posts, Senior. I guess credit goes to Ford VP, Charles Sorenson for cranking out those big bombers ala-assembly line just like the Model T. Ford Motor also built combat gliders for the war effort although those were assembled in Iron Mountain. I know of two B-24 Liberators that are still flying. Commerative AF has one and I believe the Collins Foundation has the other. The Collins Lib got a new paint job recently and I think the CAF has gotten theirs repainted too. They are frequent visitors at the Yankee AF "Thunder over Michigan" Air Show. | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 3878 Registered: 11-2007 |
The Collings Foundation has the last fully renovated B-24 left out of 18,479 produced at five locations. The "All American" was abandoned in India after WWII. From 1948 - 1968, this aircraft flew as a patrol bomber for India. The Consolidated B-24 remains the most produced American Aircraft,(military and civilian), of all time. | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 3879 Registered: 11-2007 |
The forum I used to do research on years ago, seems to be gone, but this one is pretty good for info. http://www.b24bestweb.com/  | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1528 Registered: 11-2003 |
Of all the B-24 Liberators, the ones that probably got the most ink were those whose crews participated on the tragic raids on the Ploesti oil fields. Tremendous loss of life, and planes. And the story of the finding of the "Lady Be Good" and what appears the cause for her ditching in the Libyan desert, is a very interesting but very sad one. The YAF was really formed in hopes of obtaining a Liberator, but none were really available without tremendous risk and cost. So they "settled" for the B-17 which has turned out to be a wonderful acquisition. | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 3883 Registered: 11-2007 |
I had original carbon copies of all my dads missions, including the Ploesti raids. Those, and photos, were donated to the North Oakland Military Museum at the Oxford American Legion, for any interested scholars.  | ||
Hornist9 Member Username: Hornist9 Post Number: 208 Registered: 05-2005 |
I remember as a kid one of our neighbors coming to the house and she had a book that was about one of the Ploesti B24's. Her Husband (Charles Marshall) was a crew member on the aircraft and survived being shot down, and he was named in the book. Unfortunately, I only got a glimpse at the book, and cannot remember the name of it. I would have liked to have found out the books title and read it. Chuck spent the remainder of the war in a Luftwaffe POW camp. I was too young to ask about his experiences (as if he would really speak about it) but he did say that he learned to speak some German while being detained. Unfortunately, Chuck died in 1968. RIP Chuck, he was a good guy. | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 3886 Registered: 11-2007 |
Current local weatherman Sonny Eliot was a pilot on a B-24, and a prisoner of war. quote: http://www.wwj.com/pages/6684. php | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 894 Registered: 08-2008 |
Retroit, this is a wonderful link. Thanks so much. I almost fell asleep looking at it last night but I've been back a couple of more times. What a collection of photos. It's nice to compare some of the views with the same views today. I'm going to download it and take it with me on cruise around Willow Run someday. | ||
Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 977 Registered: 04-2008 |
Here are some colored pictures: http://public.fotki.com/Kos/me mbers_photo_galle/b-24-factory --color/ Use the menu on the left to view many other great photos. Credit goes to "Kos" of Westland. | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 896 Registered: 08-2008 |
Retroit, another incredible photo link. Thanks so much. I'll be busy for days. After all the shouting and arguing is done, DY and it's posters come through BIG time. | ||
Toolbox Member Username: Toolbox Post Number: 424 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Your father may have made replacement parts for a Tri-Motor if he worked at WIllow Run. There was at least an 8 year gap between the end of Tri-Motor production and start of B-24 production at Willow Run. The planes were produced at two very different locations, the Tri-Motor at The Ford Airport in Dearborn and the 24 at WR. Was probably easier to take a short flight from Dearborn to Willow Run in those days than to drive. | ||
Peachlaser Member Username: Peachlaser Post Number: 276 Registered: 08-2006 |
Thanks Toolbox. I didn't mean to imply that the Tri-Motor was being built at Willow Run. I think my father said that he built a bearing. Seeing, a Tri-Motor in the Willow Run photos tied things together for me, especially the fact that they were still flying in that timeframe. | ||
Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 979 Registered: 04-2008 |
Interesting how I-94 (then known as the Willow Run and Detroit Industrial Expressway) ended at Willow Run (slide 142). More info on early I-94: http://www.michiganhighways.or g/indepth/early_I-94.html I’ve been told that the rails around the top of the plant and hangars (slides 164, 167, 169, etc.) are actually curtain rods. In the event of a night-time aerial attack, curtains could be pulled along these rails to conceal the light within. I haven’t been able to confirm this, but it makes sense. As for the jet engines: there were several simultaneous efforts to build engines for the first generation of jet fighters (Shooting Star, Sabre, etc.), including Chevrolet in Tonawanda (Buffalo, NY). Not sure what came of Ford’s effort, though. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3554 Registered: 07-2004 |
Original plans for use of the Industrial Expressway included possibly landing large aircraft on the roadway! (I think they were reaching.) | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 3920 Registered: 11-2007 |
. | ||
Lpg Member Username: Lpg Post Number: 115 Registered: 02-2008 |
The History Channel did a story about the "Lady Be Good" a few years ago. One of the propellers is on display in the town of Laurium in the UP. I took a picture of it, not knowing at the time the story behind it until several years later. The radio operator was from Lake Linden which is nearby. | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 3929 Registered: 11-2007 |
Awesome bomber.  | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 3931 Registered: 11-2007 |
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Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 3932 Registered: 11-2007 |
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Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 3933 Registered: 11-2007 |
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Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 3934 Registered: 11-2007 |
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Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 3936 Registered: 11-2007 |
Sorry, Dad.  | ||
Miss_d_meanor Member Username: Miss_d_meanor Post Number: 8 Registered: 02-2009 |
Very cool. I love old photographs! Thanks for the link! | ||
Peachlaser Member Username: Peachlaser Post Number: 279 Registered: 08-2006 |
I was outside here in Atlanta today and saw a single-tail B-24 fly over. I understand that a lot of troops were coming home today at nearby Dobbins AFB. Felt very privileged to see one of these great airplanes today after reading this thread. | ||
Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 986 Registered: 04-2008 |
Another thing about Willow Run: The airport was built on farmland belonging to Henry Ford, but the precise location of the plant is interesting. It lies just to the west of Wayne County. Henry Ford, being a wise businessman, built the plant in Washtenaw County to avoid the higher tax rate of Wayne County. Same reason that the Ford Rouge plant was built outside of Detroit. Also the same reason that Highland Park was incorporated. Also the same reason the Dodge brothers got Hamtramck incorporated for the building of Dodge Main. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5316 Registered: 06-2004 |
Henry Ford built the Rouge where he built it because he got the swampy land for $0.15/acre. Highland Park was incorporated as a village (1889) years before Henry Ford built his first car, then as a city (1918) years after the Highland Park plant (1909) was built. Similarly, the incorporated village of Hamtramck (1901) was incorporated as a city (1922) years after Dodge Main (1910) was built. The villages incorporated to avoid being annexed by Detroit not to host the plants. | ||
Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 987 Registered: 04-2008 |
I stand corrected on the reason for village/city incorporation. But I believe I've read that the plants were located where they were to take advantage of the lower taxes. When I have more time, I'll do some research on it. Thanks for the clarification. Here's some info and pictures on the Collin's B-24: http://collingsfoundation.org/ tour_b-24j.htm | ||
Miss_d_meanor Member Username: Miss_d_meanor Post Number: 12 Registered: 02-2009 |
I remember a few years ago when the the museum burned to the ground, the smoke was visible all the way to the west side of Detroit. | ||
Lpg Member Username: Lpg Post Number: 116 Registered: 02-2008 |
Here is a photo of my dad taken on Okinawa in August 1945. The B-24 is named "Breadline in '49". They figured the war would last till 1949, then they would return to the same conditions they left behind. The plane was badly damaged in a hard landing during a typhoon.  | ||
Luckycar Member Username: Luckycar Post Number: 151 Registered: 02-2007 |
It was once said that the B-24 was the crate that the B-17 came in.To quote a Time-Life book I once had,"It looked like a truck,flew like a truck and bombed like a truck.But it was there when trucks were badly needed." Wiki or Google the Ploesti raid of Aug.1,1943.More Medals of Honor were given out on that day than any other for one mission.On You Tube there are films shot of this historic day.Oil was the key.The Germans needed it,and the Allies had to deny them it.The German push to the Suez Canal,the moves to the Caspian Sea,the U-Boat attacks off our coast all involved oil.A couple of hundred B-24s on a low level mission was a ballsy move against the Nazis.The Ploesti Romainia oil refineries were not destroyed on this raid.It took several more by the 15th Air Force.One involved using P-38s dive bombing these targets.Hats off to these brave men... | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 4370 Registered: 11-2007 |
Last bump ?  | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 4375 Registered: 11-2007 |
No | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 4377 Registered: 11-2007 |
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