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Bshea
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Username: Bshea

Post Number: 27
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 3:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm well aware of the allegations of Moroun's shortcomings as a landlord, or slumlord as his critics decry. That's not what I've been talking about. Different conversation.

Cleaning up the neighborhood is a different conversation than the need to replace the older, smaller span with a large, modern bridge.

I guess my "dismal critical thinking skills" don't allow me to understand why bulldozing one neighborhood is OK, but not another. And yes, I get that some people dislike Moroun for the condition of his properties and practices, but the end game is the same - the neighborhoods will be gone and replaced with bridges.

I'm talking purely about the second span vs. DRIC in this case, however.

Nice to see the ad hominem folks are on guard at their keyboards.

I talked to Tlaib today. She was talking about the bridge. She also told me the justification for the new bridge switched from traffic to needing to employ people in construction jobs and for future traffic flow.

For the latest on the bridge saga today:
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/S hea

Keep in mind that I personally have no preference for either bridge. I live in downtown Detroit, but have no horse in the race, despite what some seem to think. Not everyone who doesn't disparage Moroun's every move doesn't mean they're on his payroll, LOL.
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Drm
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Username: Drm

Post Number: 356
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 4:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

So private industry shouldn't use private activity bonds?

There is no public good that comes from the Ambassador Bridge?

I didn't imply either. I simply said that opposing the public subsidy of the project is not the same as opposing the project, contrary to what Bshea stated when he accused Rep. Tlaib and others of "hampering" the efforts to construct a second span by testifying before the Michigan Strategic Fund.

The "allegations" of Moroun's actions in the neighborhood are directly related to whether his project should be further publicly subsidized. I think the City of Detroit, and particularly the residents around the bridge, have done more than their share of subsidizing his bridge.

Why does it only cost $1.50 to cross at the Blue Water Bridge but $4.00 to cross the Ambassador Bridge?
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Bshea
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Username: Bshea

Post Number: 28
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's not publicly subsidized. Being tax exempt is not the same thing as getting a check from the state's general fund.
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Drm
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Username: Drm

Post Number: 358
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 7:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

It's not publicly subsidized.

Yes, it is. The government is foregoing tax revenues it could otherwise collect on the interest received by bondholders. Therefore, DIBC pays a lower interest rate.
quote:

Being tax exempt is not the same thing as getting a check from the state's general fund.

I never said it was.
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Funaho
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Username: Funaho

Post Number: 104
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The reason that the justification for the DRIC has changed is because in reality, there IS no justification. The traffic volumes tanked after 9/11 and have yet to get even CLOSE to the original projections. There's a good chance there isn't even enough traffic to sustain two bridges, which means in the end the DRIC bridge would take huge losses and require substantial subsidies to continue operating.

From what I've been able to tell this entire project is being pushed by the Canadians, who are have a fierce idealogical opposition to the 100% privately-owned Ambassador Bridge. Neither the Michigan or US Gov't is particularly interested in spending the money required to actually build the DRIC.

No, I don't work for Matty. Wish I did, I could use the money. :-)
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Bshea
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Username: Bshea

Post Number: 29
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 8:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, it is. The government is foregoing tax revenues it could otherwise collect on the interest received by bondholders. Therefore, DIBC pays a lower interest rate.

Subsidy:
–noun, plural -dies.
1. a direct pecuniary aid furnished by a government to a private industrial undertaking, a charity organization, or the like.
2. a sum paid, often in accordance with a treaty, by one government to another to secure some service in return.
3. a grant or contribution of money.
4. money formerly granted by the English Parliament to the crown for special needs.

Tax money not collected by the government doesn't qualify as a subsidy, as far as I'm concerned. No tax dollars are being spent. But apparently mythical dollars not collected by the government qualify as a subsidy to you?

If I have exemptions on my personal income taxes, I'm subsidized by the government because they're not getting that tax revenue from me?
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Vivadetroit
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Username: Vivadetroit

Post Number: 175
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 8:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Urbanoutdoors, do you know where the meeting is going to be this Saturday?

But good news, Manny was denied his bond money. http://www.freep.com/article/2 0090225/NEWS06/302250002/Plan+ for+second+span+next+to+Ambass ador+Bridge+hits+obstacle
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 1106
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 11:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To all interested parties here is the latest from our State Rep. 10 am Saturday. Be there! Tell everyone you know!

Please pass on

Dear Neighbors,

I, along with residents, community and business leaders, will be holding a BRIDGE WATCH meeting Saturday, February 28th at 10 a.m. at the Delray Senior Pavilion, 275 W Grand Blvd, to discuss the following developments:

1) the proposed design changes by Detroit International Bridge Company to the Gateway Project (which includes taking a portion of W Grand Blvd and other city owned roads) AND

2) the U.S. Coast Guard hearing on Tuesday, March 17, at Earhart Middle School, 1000 Scotten St. in Detroit at 6 p.m. to the discuss the Draft Finding of No Significant Impact (on our community) in building a twin span of the Ambassador Bridge.

It is essential that hundreds of our community members attend the upcoming Coast Guard hearing as well as help coordinate efforts to ensure that DIBC abides by the original contractual agreements of the Gateway Project.

I hope to see all of you on Saturday.

Best,
Rashida Tlaib
State Representative
12th District, Southwest Detroit
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Drm
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Username: Drm

Post Number: 359
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2009 - 6:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

But apparently mythical dollars not collected by the government qualify as a subsidy to you?

If MSF doesn't issue the bonds, DIBC has to borrow at market rates, and the government will collect taxes on the interest. That is tax money that would be paid but for the issuance of the private activity bonds. The dollars are real. It is the same outcome as if the government collected the taxes and then paid them directly to DIBC. DIBC's borrowing costs are reduced by the amount of taxes that the bondholders would have paid.
quote:

If I have exemptions on my personal income taxes, I'm subsidized by the government because they're not getting that tax revenue from me?

One example: if you are deducting the interest paid on your mortgage, then yes, the government is subsidizing your mortgage.
quote:

Tax money not collected by the government doesn't qualify as a subsidy, as far as I'm concerned.

It seems we disagree.
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Bshea
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Username: Bshea

Post Number: 32
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2009 - 9:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If MSF doesn't issue the bonds, DIBC has to borrow at market rates, and the government will collect taxes on the interest.

If we had ham, we could have ham and eggs, if we had eggs.
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 1108
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Friday, February 27, 2009 - 8:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bump Remember to come at 10 am tomorrow!
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Vivadetroit
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Username: Vivadetroit

Post Number: 180
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2009 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Question for BShea -- does your boss at Crain's know you're ranting your views/info on this site? Back in Journalism 101, I was taught that a journalist was supposed to be unbiased.

Question No. 2: How can you be unbiased when you're writing for Crain's and also putting your views up here??
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 1111
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 3:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For those facebookers...
http://www.facebook.com/home.p hp?ref=home#/group.php?gid=675 93879536&ref=nf
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Bshea
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Username: Bshea

Post Number: 34
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 7:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Question for BShea -- does your boss at Crain's know you're ranting your views/info on this site? Back in Journalism 101, I was taught that a journalist was supposed to be unbiased.

Every human being is biased, including reporters. The key is being fair, and understanding there are more than 2 sides to any story.

A question for you: Are they only "rants" when you disagree? A get the strong sense that anyone who dares question DRIC and its supporters on here is immediately cast as a heretic who must be silenced and banished.

Question No. 2: How can you be unbiased when you're writing for Crain's and also putting your views up here??

I'm asking questions and debating -- and I also have people sending me tips and info from this site. You have zero idea what my views are. You'd probably be surprised, but they're none of anyone's business.

I've also asked these questions about the letter and other related stuff of the people involved - Tlaib, Bashman, Tobocman, Moroun I & II, Stamper, etc. Read my blog at Crain's (the entry on this is a few entries down the page).

I'm going to question moves like Tlaib's letter when I see them -- on both sides.

When both sides dislike me, I figure I'm sailing the right course, LOL.
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Bshea
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Username: Bshea

Post Number: 35
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 8:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd also add that a reporter's job is to not blindly accept whatever it is that flacks, politicians and others with an agenda serve up to them, and that includes Moroun, Tlaib, MDOT and their lieutenants.

Answer my questions and don't lie to me. Is that so hard? For some of the DRIC people it has been.

I also make myself available directly for people to ask questions about what I write, why and how, etc. And I don't hide behind a clever screen name. I'm willing to engage the public.

"With the possible exception of things like box scores, race results, and stock market tabulations, there is no such thing as Objective Journalism. The phrase itself is a pompous contradiction in terms." -- Hunter Thompson

Do you think Woodward & Bernstein were unbiased, or do you prefer to pretend reporters are emotionless, witless drones?
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 2434
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 9:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You might want to switch to decaf Bill.

Did you go to the meeting yesterday? As a guy looking at all side of the issue, I sure do bet that you could have found some interesting and informed points of view.

Just wondering Bill, you go or not? Also, I invited you to take a tour of some of the Maroun properties with residents, didn't get an answer yet.
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Realitycheck
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Username: Realitycheck

Post Number: 338
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 10:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually, Gnome, you're the one who seems a bit jazzed up this morning.

Go back and s-l-o-w-l-y re-read what Bill says.

We needn't agree with every viewpoint (I don't) or accept each statement (couple of misstated facts about MDOT up there) to respect that he is engaging frankly, transparently and constructively.

Comments from you and VivaDetroit, by contrast, have the exclusionary, dismissive, condescending tone that damages dialogue here and tries to marginalize a dissenter as . . . well, yes, as "a heretic who must be silenced and banished."

It's an e-forum, folks, a modern town square. All voices should be welcome. And manners matter.
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Barnesfoto
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Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 3566
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 11:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

great! so is Bshea going to take the tour??....
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 2438
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whoa up RC, I haven't called for anyone to be silenced and you very well know, I do not abide silencing alternative points of view.

I just happen to know a few folks who could walk him over some scarred earth and offered to Bill to make that introduction. He just never responded.

Moreover, since a little bit of this thread was about a meeting that was happening yesterday morning, I was just wondering if he attended. Bill tells us he's spent time talking with Mr. Maroun, just wondering if he spent any time with citizens on the other side.

I bristle a tad at being labeled disrespectful towards Mr. Shea, or at trying to squash debate. Now, Mr Shea may think that a couple of exchanged emails and a few phone calls to Rep. Tlaib is the best way to get a feeling for the issue, others may disagree, but just because they disagree is no reason to evoke images of 1936 purges.

I for one am pleased the Bill has stuck his toe in our waters here. He joins a few other news mavens who come here and opine. I don't want him banished, never suggested such and take umbrage at the insinuation.
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Vivadetroit
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Username: Vivadetroit

Post Number: 181
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 1:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am not asking Bshea be banished, but as a former reporter, I know it is unethical and improper for journalists to post on blogs, forums, etc about the same topic that they cover for their publication.

It just raises ethical questions. I know for one my former bosses would have taken disciplinary action if I was caught doing this. I also talked to several other journalists and they were amazed that Bshea is potentially ruining his credibility as a reporter posting here with his name.

(Message edited by vivadetroit on March 01, 2009)
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Bshea
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Username: Bshea

Post Number: 36
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 8:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Viva, had I come on here singing the praises of DRIC and Tlaib's tyro fire-and-brimstone letter, you'd not have said a thing. You know it, I know it, and everyone reader on here knows it.

No, it's no "unethical and improper" at all. There's nothing I haven't said on here that I have said to the people that I interview and post on my Crain's blog. And I'll continue to call out the bullshit I see from DRIC and the bullshit I see from DIBC.

DRIC vs. DIBC is a battle for hearts and minds -- the point of Tblaib issuing letter. Some of her fellow legislators that have been around awhile that I talked to were miffed that she wrote the thing because it feeds into the DIBC's notion that the DRIC backers are making a concerted effort to hamper them ... even tho the DIBC backers swear up and down they're not.

They accuse the DIBC people of lying, yet here they are doing the exact same thing -- doing something they accuse the other side of doing.

The hearts and minds battle is being waged in the state legislature, where MDOT must go for DIBC funding. When you hand Moroun evidence that he says is part of a deliberate effort to sabotage his second span project -- especially in the financial situation we're in -- is it going to help him sway more lawmakers his way? Sure seems like it might.

All the agencies the DRIC cites -- Detroit Chamber, auto makers, etc -- as supporting them don't call the Ambassador Bridge "a towering monstrosity."

I'm here engaging those involved in the debate -- something that Viva apparently dislikes because he's a DRIC organizer or one of Rashida's aides or something, and he apparently thinks I'm on Matty's payroll or something, LMFAO ...

"Caught" implies doing something wrong. I'm not, and I've been around long enough to know that. I think more and more reporters need to engage the people and subjects they cover on every platform available.

Again - I'm on here on my own name because I have no reason to hide behind a screen name.

Gnome: I must have missed your tour offer above, or forgot. I've toured the properties and I'm aware of what's allegedly going on with Moroun's land, buildings, etc. But that's not the point here. What I'm working on here is specifically bridge related. Moroun's stewardship, or lack thereof, of his properties is beside the point of the necessity of the second span and the necessity of the DRIC crossing.
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 1112
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 04, 2009 - 1:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is the current Environmental Assessment done for the bridge. For those that don't know a Environmental assessment is the second highest level of environmental regulating assessment. There is a hearing on March 17th at 6pm at Earhart Middle School on Scotten to see if an (EIS) Environmental Impact Statement is needed.

This report found that adding a second span to the ambassador bridge (basically an entirely new Bridge) would pose no significant environmental impact...
I have no clue how it could have no significant impact due to the fact that the area already has some of the poorest air quality in the state... Not to mention how aesthetically displeasing looking at both spans side by side are in the visual impacts section.
I am very concerned by who exactly the information for this report is coming from do to the fact that the report states that Riverside park had been reduced do to homeland security issues resulting from 9/11. I believe it has been established that this was not the case but in fact it was illegally taken over by the DIBC... In the process they destroyed a softball diamond and made it impossible for people to enjoy the normal activities that were normally held at this park... I have not finished at looking at the entire EA yet but as I go through I will try to point out the inconsistencies and post them here... It is imperative that the EPA does an EIS because there is definitely a very significant impact that this bridge would have. http://www.ambassadorbridge.com/environmental-assessment-fin al.html

(Message edited by Urbanoutdoors on March 04, 2009)
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 1113
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 7:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Reminder,
Bridge Watch Detroit's Next meeting is tomorrow March 7th at 9 am at Delray Senior Center.
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 1122
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 10:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tomorrow is a big Day for all interested parties on this issue. Detroit City Council is waying in on riverside park...
CITY PLANNING COMMISSION
1. Submitting report relative to U.S. Coast Guard request for comments from This Honorable Body and any City Departments involved, on the Final Assessment Report (FAR) for the Ambassador Bridge Enhancement Project (ABEP) (the Ambassador Bridge second span); same U.S. Coast Guard report indicates that the "project will have no significant effect on the human environment", as well as significant issues and unwarranted assumptions made by the Detroit International Bridge Company (DIBC) in their ABEP project. (City Planning Commission indicates that DIBC currently appears to be encroaching into Riverside Park, currently under litigation; taking use of City recreation property, proposed for the foundations for the pier for the second span; W. Jefferson, legally temporarily closed for five years, is closed under the bridge, as is Twenty-Third Street, all without City permission. Additionally, land and air rights would be required over the City property and rights-of-way, as well as likely further street closings; none of which have been granted with respect to the second span, but are assumed in the DIBC's proposal.)

Then the United States Coast Guard has their public hearing on their findings that adding six lanes of traffic to the ambassador bridge has no significant environmental impact... We need anyone willing, to come down and show opposition to the DIBC at 6pm at 1000 Scotten across from Clark Park. For additional information please contact me @ josephrashid@gmail.com. Community support for Bridge Watch Detroit is vital.
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Busterwmu
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Username: Busterwmu

Post Number: 543
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Unbelievable how a private company can just block off a Detroit street and get away with it.

If the city council just gives Moron his wishes in regard to this blatant disregard for the law and property rights granted to us through our American system, I don't know what I'll do next.
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 1123
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 6:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe there will be public comment tomorrow at council. For those who can't make it please write council to let your voices be heard.
Council President Monica Conyers, 224-4530
ConyersM@cncl.ci.detroit.mi.us

Council President Pro-tem JoAnn Watson, 224-4535
WatsonJ_mb@cncl.ci.detroit.mi. us

Councilwoman Sheila Cockrel, 224-1337
S-Cockrel_mb@ckrl.ci.detroit.m i.us

Councilwoman Barbara-Rose Collins, 224-1298
Collins_MB@cncl.ci.detroit.mi. us

Councilman Kwame Kenyatta, 224-1198
K-Kenyatta_MB@cncl.ci.detroit. mi.us

Councilwoman Alberta Tinsley-Talabi, 224-1645
A_Talabi_mb@atwpo.ci.detroit.m i.us

Councilwoman Martha Reeves, 224-4510
m-reeves_mb@cncl.ci.detroit.mi .us

Councilwoman Brenda Jones, 224-1245
Bjones_MB@cncl.ci.detroit.mi.u s
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 2511
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 4:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

from Urbanoutdoors

We need anyone willing, to come down and show opposition to the DIBC at 6pm at 1000 Scotten across from Clark Park.



http://maps.google.com/maps?f= q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q= 1000+scotten,+detroit&sll=42.4 38977,-83.148479&sspn=0.013334 ,0.027466&gl=us&g=3500+W+OUTER +DRIVE,+detroit&ie=UTF8&ll=42. 314488,-83.089235&spn=0.00315, 0.006866&t=h&z=17
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 1124
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Amazing turnout! Thanks to all who came out to make sure our voices were heard!
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 1125
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 12:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.freep.com/article/2 0090317/NEWS01/90317078/1203/C OL33
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Gravitymachine
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Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 1759
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 8:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

suprise suprise, look at horace sheffield whoring it up for the billionaire, don't count the kilpatric kleptocracy out just yet

http://www.freep.com/article/2 0090317/NEWS01/90317078/Hundre ds+protest+Canada+bridge+plan

quote:

But when Detroit pastor and business owner Horace Sheffield began to speak in favor of the bridge — a group of his followers waving yellow signs that read, among other slogans, “New jobs for Detroit” — shouting matches broke out.

“I believe the bridge should be built; I'm here to encourage that it be moved along expeditiously,” he said. “If there are six lanes and the bridge is less congested, it'll probably have less effect on the environment.”

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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 2512
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 8:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The place was jammed. Overflow crowd spilled outside on one side and into the hallway on the other.

Whorace and Mongo were there slumming. JoAnn Whackson was there for a hot minute and John Bennett said he was staying until the end.

If the Coast Guard didn't get the message, they are deaf. For those who don't know the US Coast Guard under the Department of Homeland Security was in charge of doing the Enviromental/Community Impact study.

In short, the USGC found that a 2nd span would have zero impact on the enviroment or on the neighborhood.

Moreover, they reported that no harm would be done to any historic structures although there were hints that the Ambasador Bridge might be removed at a future date.

If you couldn't make it, but would like to submit your feelings about the second span you can go to http://www.regulations.gov under the Coast Guard docket number USCG-2009-0093.
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 3679
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 1:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.metrotimes.com/blog /newsblawg.asp?perm=676
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 3680
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 1:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From the Freep:

“I believe the bridge should be built; I'm here to encourage that it be moved along expeditiously,” [the Rev. Horace Sheffield] said. “If there are six lanes and the bridge is less congested, it'll probably have less effect on the environment.”

Ummm ... :-(
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Southwestmap
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Username: Southwestmap

Post Number: 963
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 1:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Detroitnerd. If you were at the meeting, read the Freep article on the meeting and this one you can't help but conclude that the Metro Times reporting is superior. The freep was a slide-over. It seems like the reporter came in at the end. Certainly did not cover the remarkable testimonies, which would be jump-off points for a lot of future bridge and vibrant neighborhood reporting. Its a shame that the Freep didn't do better.
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 1126
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anyone catch the fox 2 clip on it I haven't been able to find it on the web?
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Southwestmap
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Username: Southwestmap

Post Number: 964
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 5:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The following is from the Free Press reader comments this afternoon:

" have a student in my special ed class at a Detroit High School. He told me the Rev. Sheffield paid him and some others to attend this meeting. Transported them down there and paid them $40 cash. The student had no clue as to what they were doing. Sad."
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Novine
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Username: Novine

Post Number: 1261
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 6:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Horace was on NPR dropping the F-bomb after being jostled by someone angry at his comments.
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Hubbardfarmer
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Username: Hubbardfarmer

Post Number: 48
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 7:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was sitting at a table next to the students Sheffield brought in. They clearly were confused about why they were there. They cheered a lot of the speakers who testified in favor of a full environmental impact study.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4301
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 12:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How increadibly sleazy. How folks like him can get away with portraying themselves as "Men of God" is a crime.
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Cooper
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Username: Cooper

Post Number: 65
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 12:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Strategic Fund approves $787M for second Detroit bridge

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20090318/UPDAT E/903180461


It's hard not to read this as one-sided. Not only does the author not mention the competing public proposal, he ignores last night's public meeting. The author just quotes the DBIC spokesman saying that "his company has met with residents and will hold future meetings with southwest Detroit residents to address their concerns." Then he writes that the Coast Guard has found "no significant impact" on the environment without saying anyone disagrees!

Is the News just out of the loop?
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 1127
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 1:00 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I sent them the press release for the Coast Guard hearing myself but apparently he didn't get the memo....
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4304
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 1:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cooper, it's just not the News, it the Freep, too. Whether it's on the light rails proposals or the two bridges, they often leave off mention of the publically-planned projects, entirely. It's definitely not a mistake, either.
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Bshea
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Username: Bshea

Post Number: 65
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 8:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's definitely not a mistake, either.

So you're saying it's collusion among the Freep, News (and Crain's, since our story didn't mention the USCG meeting) to purposely leave out public projects?

Do you have something to back that up?

I can't speak for the two dailies, but I know our story was a short online item, not an in-depth feature piece on the entire debate. It did mention the major lawmakers who spoke for and against the funding. DRIC was referenced (although not by its official name).

It appears that at least the News' online story was a fast Web story, too.

Here's a quick education on how journalism works in the 24/7 news cycle Internet age: We have a lot of work to do and have to dole out our time to things in the proportion we think they deserve. Not every news item is going to get the same play and attention as every other one. A procedural happening such as the MSF meeting isn't going to warrant a lengthy story in print. It's going to be a short online item, and the reporter will include what happened and a little background, and then it's on to the next thing and the far bigger projects.

The two meetings this week are what gets referenced as background in larger stories, not vice versa. I'm sure Crain's and the two dailies will mention this stuff in larger pieces in the future.

I understand people might be frustrated that every story is not the full accounting of all that's going on and all the history of the bridges situation, but that's just not how it works.

But anyone who thinks the DRIC and DTOG is being left out of stories on purpose in CDB and the dailies because of some anti-public project bias or plot is ... well, I'm not sure of the word.

If any publication is viewed as conservative, I'm sure it's CDB and I've always included the boilerplate background on either the public or private projects in what I write online or in print. Occasionally, it's not needed, such as when I wrote last year about the troubles with the Mexicantown Development Corp. The AB/Gateway project was an important part of that story, but not DRIC.
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Gravitymachine
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Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 1762
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 9:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Horace was on NPR dropping the F-bomb after being jostled by someone angry at his comments.



audio
http://wdetfm.org/article/brid ge-hearing-feature
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Kraig
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Username: Kraig

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 5:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Did anyone go to the DRIC hearings on the 18th or 19th? I hadn't seen any postings for those hearings. I've noticed on this forum that there are a lot of opinions about the DIBC project, so I'm somewhat familiar as to what's going on with that, but, I've noticed that there are not a lot of comments on the DRIC project and the few times that the subject comes up at the City Council meetings the CPC director appears to kind of steer the City Council away from the subject. I'm hoping someone hear can give me some answers.

Will there be any street closings involved with the DRIC?

If so, how many streets in comparison with the DIBC project?

Will there be any condemnation involved with the DRIC? If so, how many homes.

Are there environmental concerns with the DRIC?

I'll attempt to find out some of the answers on my own, but, any help that's provided would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
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Drm
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Username: Drm

Post Number: 365
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 7:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

quote:

Horace was on NPR dropping the F-bomb after being jostled by someone angry at his comments.



audio
http://wdetfm.org/article/brid ge-hearing-feature

I'm not sure what he's trying to say... something about only people of a certain complexion from Corktown are against the DIBC debacle?

Also nice to see that the MSF approved a $787mm taxpayer subsidized loan for this thing. I still don't know what could possibly justify the use of private activity bonds for a project owned by one of the richest people in the world that is going to get built whether or not it gets this type of financing (pending government approvals and the like). It's not like this is a small or medium size business that needs the lower cost of money to expand but couldn't do so without it. It's a mockery of the system. And isn't this on top of another $200mm taxpayer subsidized loan previously approved for the Bridge Company?
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4313
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 12:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kraig, check out DRIC's website. On it, they posts all of their studies and reports and such. It's all incredibly detailed.
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Bshea
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Username: Bshea

Post Number: 70
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 12:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/PPP/to ols_pabs.htm

That's the Federal Highway Administration's explanation of the $15 billion set aside for private activity bonds. It appears the money was specifically set aside for international bridge projects, among a short list of other things.

I guess the justification would be, that's what the feds set the money aside for and the law was amended to include private projects involving public transportation. I have no idea what the history of this $15 billion is, and don't know if any DIBC-friendly legislators were involved in setting it up. Something to look into soon.

But I guess it's important to keep in mind the money is federal and is from a pool set aside for this sort of thing. At least that's what the feds say. No one else appears much interested in this cash, and I'm not sure why. Just 8 projects applied and only one paid out.

(Note: I had to drag my cursor over the list of projects on that federal web page. Otherwise, it just showed up on my browser as a blue block. It showed the first phase of the DIBC project and what looks to be seven public/government projects)

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