  Spidergirl Member Username: Spidergirl Post Number: 201 Registered: 12-2004 |
Eight examples of how local businesses are surviving. Interesting read. http://money.cnn.com/galleries /2009/smallbusiness/0902/galle ry.detroit_ripples.smb/index.h tml | ||
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 1675 Registered: 11-2003 |
I just read it on the site and was about to post it here and decided I should do a search. It was a cool read. | ||
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican Post Number: 906 Registered: 02-2007 |
WHAT YOU DRIVE, DRIVES AMERICA! OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN. This was true years ago and is more important than ever today. | ||
Ocean2026 Member Username: Ocean2026 Post Number: 132 Registered: 11-2008 |
Three problems with that line of thought Buy. 1. japanese made better quality cars 2. japanese made more fuel efficient environmentally friendly cars 3. Many foreign cars were built in America and Americans were able to own stocks in the Japanese auto makers. All of the above is probably still true. IF the big three cared about America they would have made better cars for Americans. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 1043 Registered: 05-2006 |
"WHAT YOU DRIVE, DRIVES AMERICA! OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN." Like the Cadillac SRX? Formerly built in Lansing, new model to be built in Mexico. Why move it, not enough tax paying people here that need a job? I hope GM doesn't sell one of those fucking cars. It's not a capacity issue. I just read that the Lansing Grand River plant is down to one shift. Move the production back or give back some of the loan money. Same goes for the Saturn Vue, Ford Fusion, etc... | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 589 Registered: 02-2006 |
American companies are building more and more overseas & north and south of the border because they are trying to save on labor expenses today. Why are they doing that you ask? Because they are still stuck paying tons in retiree pensions and health benefits. Nobody. Not company management or union management had the foresight to see any of this coming. All it was back in the day was ask for more and give them more to shut them up and damn with the future. Let someone else figure that out. How happy with your fathers pension are you now that your are out of a job? | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5317 Registered: 06-2004 |
Not only are they paying retiree pensions and health benefits but they are being forced to compete with imports from lower labor cost countries, and that competition is what really forced them out when they started leaving. The oldest plant in the US for a foreign automaker was built in 1979 but their product was here well before that. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 2243 Registered: 12-2005 |
quote: You're right it's not a capacity issue, but from your post it's clear that you don't have a friggin' clue as to what is happening with the SRX nameplate. The SRX was formerly a "tall wagon" that used the Cadillac CTS passenger car underbody and chassis/drivetrain components. The 2010 SRX is a crossover SUV built on a completely different underbody and chassis/drivetrain that could not be built alongside the CTS at Lansing Grand River. The loss of the old SRX production volumes is not the reason LGR is down to one shift, it's the 30%+ drop in vehicle sales that all of the automakers are faced with. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 1044 Registered: 05-2006 |
"You're right it's not a capacity issue, but from your post it's clear that you don't have a friggin' clue as to what is happening with the SRX nameplate." Yes, I do have a clue. I spent a lot of thime at LGR when the first CTS was launching. It was a new plant from the ground up. It was supposed to be "state of the art" and versatile as to handle more than one platform, so why can't it handle a new version/platform of the SRX? Oh, yeah, because it's built on the same platform as the current Saturn Vue, also now a foreign (Opel) platform and now built in Mexico rather than TN. I also realize that the volumes of the SRX couldn't sustain an additional shift at LGR, but it is still production that was formerly in the US and was eliminated with the new version being built in a foreign country. Any way you slice, US workers lost jobs because of these changes. Yet, the "BUY AMERICAN" crowd has no problem with GM buying cheap foreign labor. To hell with the Americans working at Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc. that pay Federal & State income tax, FICA & medicare, right. That doesn't count. How much US taxes do the Mexicans building the SRX pay? Yes, Mikeg, I have a friggin clue. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 2244 Registered: 12-2005 |
Sorry Wash_man, you still reveal your friggin' cluelessness with this statement: "I hope GM doesn't sell one of those fucking cars." | ||
Themax Member Username: Themax Post Number: 841 Registered: 09-2005 |
Darn retirees, living so long. | ||
Philbert Member Username: Philbert Post Number: 217 Registered: 10-2003 |
"WHAT YOU DRIVE, DRIVES AMERICA! OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN." as a low income person I have done the american car thing twice, never again. They sucked and caused me to change my lifestyle, downward, to afford the junk I bought. The repairs. You blew it big. | ||
Rid0617 Member Username: Rid0617 Post Number: 398 Registered: 03-2008 |
"WHAT YOU DRIVE, DRIVES AMERICA! OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN." You mean like my Crown Victoria and Grand Marquis that are made in Canada? I bought one new car and sold it a year later. Biggest pile of junk I have owned in 50 years of owning cars. We won't even go into the clear coat peeling on 2 other cars I had. If I buy American now it has to be at least 20 years old. Otherwise never again. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1656 Registered: 07-2004 |
Some people like to argue about American cars not having American parts or not being made in America. The BUY AMERICAN mantra that Buyamerican talks about is the purchase of a vehicle by the Big 3. The money you pay for an American car goes to pay the salary and benefits of an American worker. That's what the focus of Buying American should be about. | ||
Leannam1989 Member Username: Leannam1989 Post Number: 189 Registered: 06-2008 |
I understand the frustration that those in the auto industry have with foreign models. But, if the foreign model is cheaper or more fuel efficient, usually the consumer will go with cheaper and more fuel efficient. Yes, losing the auto industry would greatly negatively effect this country. I think for most Americans it's more about "what affects me now". And what affects me now is better gas mileage and paying less for the car in the first place. And now, there are foreign car companies setting up plants in the U.S. and some American car companies moving plants out of the U.S. I don't know much about it myself, but do the Unions have a part in the American car companies' demise? I'm not saying they should work for peanuts, but if they did work for less it would probably help Ford, GM, and Chrysler charge less for cars because they'd pay less for labor and benefits. Seems like every day our world gets more and more globalized. Everything, for the most part, seems to be made overseas. Do I like it? No, but that seems to be the trend. I don't think it's going to change. To me, it doesn't seem that buying American is going to do enough to save the Big 3 anymore. If decades ago the U.S. had limited auto imports, then maybe the big 3 would be fine. Now it seems like too little too late. And it also seems like nobody is buying cars right now. We don't know if our jobs will be there tomorrow. This nation was very industrial for a century. That is changing now. We're importing more now. We still export quite a bit. I don't know how much long the Big 3 can survive. I don't know if there's one group to pin the demise on. Is it the consumers who went for the foreign cars? The Unions that demanded so much? That Federal Government that gave all that money to banks and now is stingy with the car companies? There's probably a lot of fingers to point in a lot of places. Honestly, not to disrespect anyone, but when my family goes to buy a car, we look for the best deal. What best fits our family. We have two Fords and a Chevy, but the brand doesn't really matter to us. | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 1881 Registered: 11-2006 |
Globalization is killing our world. Buy American. Not just cars, but everything possible. It's our only hope. | ||
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican Post Number: 910 Registered: 02-2007 |
The attitude I see on this thread, except for a select few (thank you Royce, Mikeg) shows me exactly why the U.S. is in the dire straits it's in now. None of you thick skulled so-called Americans will ever believe that when you purchase a Big 3 auto, whether it's assembled in Mexico or parts come from Canada, the PROFITS STAY IN THE U.S. What part of that statement is so hard to understand? When the GM logo comes off the RenCen, when Chrysler closes it's historic Jefferson and Conner plant, what will that do to Detroit and Michigan's economy? Maybe all you foreign supporters should start an email campaign to get Toyota, Honda or some other foreign brand to help Detroit out. If you believe that will ever happen, I have a bridge for sale. One automaker job supports nine U.S. workers. As far as retiree health care and pension costs are concerned...they worked hard and long to get those deserved benefits. They sacrificed a lot for a better life. When the Big 3 were doing good, why shouldn't the worker do good? Everyone deserves their fair share, after all it was the worker who built the cars that brought in the profits. When their negotiations benefitted you it was good; and believe me, thousands of companies and millions of non-automobile related workers benefitted from the work of the UAW. None of you who worked for companies other than the Big 3 but benefitted from their negotiations have a right to complain. They set the standard for a middle class people to exist. But let the economy dip and you neanderthals start blaming the worker for the woes of America. The problems today are not because of the UAW, or retirees with health care (which they are losing in some instances) and pensions. The retirees worked long and hard and gave up a lot to get those benefits and to blame them is totally irresponsible and mean spirited. WHAT YOU DRIVE, DRIVES AMERICA! OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 1045 Registered: 05-2006 |
Buyamerican, I think you are the one with the thick skull. Using your logic, it's OK for the Big 3 to ship jobs out of the country as long as the profits come back here. When will it stop? What if they ship ALL manufacturing south of the border? Will that be OK? Afterall, the profits will still be coming back to Detroit. Right now we need jobs. I don't care if people are assembling a Ford, GM, Chrysler, Nissan, Toyota, etc. as long as it is done here in the US, creating jobs. One more thing, if the rest of the world felt the way you do, GM would have been out of business a long time ago. They've admitted that their overseas operations have been keeping them afloat for years. What if people in Europe said "Don't buy a GM product, the profits go back to Detroit" (even though they're made in Europe)? Sorry, you won't change my mind. Any brand of car assembled by tax paying US citizens is MORE American than anything assembled outside the US, regardless of brand. | ||
Brg Member Username: Brg Post Number: 17 Registered: 02-2009 |
Buyamerican, I respect your passion to stay true to America but you have to get out of the 1950's. People like yourself forget that we are in a global market. It is not the United States and the rest of the world. The United States is part of the global market. You can't get rid of product and jobs and tell the people buy it because the "company" is based in America. Try again. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5319 Registered: 06-2004 |
Brg, if America doesn't start becoming "America Inc." and protecting its home market it will cease to exist. In that regard globalization is a lie. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 1977 Registered: 11-2003 |
quote: We agree on the past tense. 1. Ford quality is on par with the best. 2. Ford Fusion hybrid 41MPG, beats Camry Hybrid by 8 mpg. quote: I disagree. The asian foreign companies building here routinely charge themselves higher prices for foreign parts in order to export as much profit back to Asia as possible. So, all you get are the wages paid to the line workers. American companies building in Canada, US and Mexico keep the engineering jobs, profits and assembly jobs here in North America. White collar, blue collar and investments. Blame NAFTA if you want to say USA instead of just North America. Still better than shipping our money to Asia. | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 590 Registered: 02-2006 |
"the PROFITS STAY IN THE U.S." There haven't been any Big 3 profits around here in a long time. The theory of its ok to farm jobs out the other companies as long as the profits come back to the U.S. is crazy. Jobs in the U.S. create jobs in the U.S. Big 3 factories in Mexico don't do shi* for Michigan. Toyota jobs, BMW jobs, and Honda jobs in other states to a ton for the states they are in. "American companies building in Canada, US and Mexico keep the engineering jobs, profits and assembly jobs here in North America." I am sure the unemployed 20 year Ford man living in Dearborn who's plant closed when production shifted to Canada is happy that his job is still in North America. | ||
Brg Member Username: Brg Post Number: 19 Registered: 02-2009 |
Lilpup, America, Inc. ended when Bush the First proposed his New World Order. We gave up our home market when we wanted to shop in other markets. Isn't capitalism beautiful? | ||
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican Post Number: 911 Registered: 02-2007 |
If not believing in America and what it stands for then where does that leave us? If, by saying BUYAMERICAN, there is something 1950ish or abnormal, then I guess I'm abnormal. I know one thing...we are giving the USA away, piece by piece and we need to take it back before China, Japan, or some other foreign country takes over. If you think the US is in trouble now, just wait. Enough said, except... WHAT YOU DRIVE, DRIVES AMERICA! OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN. | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 593 Registered: 02-2006 |
Buyamerican, What kind of TV do you have? What kind of microwave do you own? Where was the computer you are tying on made? How about the chips in it? You little slogan doesn't just apply to auto jobs. U bet you don't practice what you preach in all that you do. | ||
Jb3 Member Username: Jb3 Post Number: 540 Registered: 06-2007 |
Yeah, i'll buy american. It's called a fucking Schwinn. I'd rather see the government pump the 20+ billion into that company and see what innovative transportation options and new jobs we create. From my perspective, we are about to subsidize the loss of thousands upon thousands of jobs. Great work GM and Chrysler. Way to keep up with the changing times. | ||
Jb3 Member Username: Jb3 Post Number: 541 Registered: 06-2007 |
Aahh, i lied. Schwinn is outsourced as well. Looks like i'm walkin. | ||
Jb3 Member Username: Jb3 Post Number: 542 Registered: 06-2007 |
Here we go, from http://allanti.com/page.cfm?Pa geID=328 Serotta - Serotta is a U.S. manufacturer of high-end bicycles. It competes with Seven and Waterford and is of similar size to Waterford. Seven - Seven is America's number one custom bicycle brand. Seven Cycles was founded by Rob Vandermark in early 1997. Rob, previously head of R&D at Merlin Metalworks, decided to branch out on his own and develop a company to build high-end titanium and steel frames. He also wanted to offer the rider custom geometry, without extra charges and long lead times. So Rob assembled a team of experienced craftspeople who all shared a common goal: To build the highest quality, most innovative frames, and therefore provide the cyclist with the best riding experience possible. All bikes are hand-made in Watertown, Massachusetts. Waterford - Waterford is America's number one steel custom bicycle brand. All bikes are hand-made in Waterford, Wisconsin. In the late 1970's, a young rider, designer and builder named Marc Muller was hired by the Schwinn Bicycle Company. He brought the experience and innovation from his own framebuilding enterprise and took charge of building the Paramounts, the dominant brand of American-build racing bicycles. In the early 1980's, Marc moved the Paramount factory to Waterford, Wisconsin and continued building elite bicycles and also created a cycling design laboratory. Marc and his staff introduced a number of key innovations including oversized tubing (one of the most significant advances in frame design), 26" wheels, cast-in cable guides and a patented full suspension system. These advances allowed them to design and build bikes for National and World champions such as Ned Overand, Marc Allen, Mike Engleman, Tom Prehn and many others. In 1993, Marc Muller and Richard Schwinn, great-grandson of Ignaz Schwinn, bought the Paramount factory and renamed it Waterford Precision Cycles.17 Marc is now one of the most respected bike designers in the entire bicycle industry. And Waterford, with a one hundred year heritage in bicycle manufacturing, continues to make a winning, world class frames one at a time. Waterford is 90 minutes north of Chicago. If you visit Chicago, feel free to call for a factory tour. | ||
Brownfieldguy Member Username: Brownfieldguy Post Number: 45 Registered: 02-2009 |
People, its really simple. Ask yourself two simple questions, "what are you?" and in the end "who do you want to survive?" Yep, quality could be an issue (in the past), but boy I sure recall plenty of cars in my family that had the GM logo and ran a long, long time. Listen, globalization sucks, greedy union entitlement - not good, but it is changing, auto quality is getting better. People, we live here and not over there. Buy a damn American car. Why piss on the US of A and help a foreign business interest? And don't tell me that the autos did this or that and it made you mad, etc. Sure, I know that some true a-holes ran these companies from time to time. But hell, its not like we live in California or Vermont, etc. The damn industry is here in our own backyard. I don't work for an auto company and hope never to do so, but its obvious to me that we need to support the industry now more than ever. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5325 Registered: 06-2004 |
The sad thing is we've already lost so much. We need to hang onto cars and restart so much of what we've lost, especially electronics and everyday basics. |
