  Leland_palmer Member Username: Leland_palmer Post Number: 535 Registered: 08-2004 |
Perhaps the harshest criticism I've seen yet about City Council and last Tuesdays circus, but it's all so very true. http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20090301/OPINI ON03/903010308 | ||
Haikoont Member Username: Haikoont Post Number: 131 Registered: 09-2008 |
quote: *Sigh* So true. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5361 Registered: 06-2004 |
I imagine Oakland County, working with local dealers, NAIAS people, and others, could find another venue that could be adapted (with necessary investment, of course) to host the auto show. (Screw Detroit, revitalize Pontiac and make it the regional hub?) (Message edited by lilpup on March 01, 2009) | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4199 Registered: 10-2003 |
Finley asked us to juxtapose the particular council meetings over a hypothetical one in Livonia. Did he forget that there was a very similarly racially contentious council meeting in Livonia not even a few years ago? Finley is a conservative hack, so writing this was no stretch for him. He's pretty much rewritten the same column for years. I'm also not sure I agree with his focus in this particular puff piece, if even I'm still of the same mind that dropping Cobo like that was a disaster. Sorry, but while the council has been dysfunctional and foolish on quite a few key issues, I can't take anything coming from Finley serious, at all. He seemed more concerned with painting Detroiters as some collectively racist mob than doing the hard work of revealing the complicated 5-3 split on the council, thus not doing the issue any justice. Did Finley even bother to find out why Tinsley changed her vote, or does he just assume that she's part of the so-called dominate "black nationalism" bloc on the council. His little "pause" to excuse Sheila Cockrel, Brenda Jones, and Kwame Kenyatta (who is in fact as far as I know more of a 'black nationalist' than anyone that actually voted against the Cobo deal) is disengenuous and not enough. He's a columnist in glass house, as far as I'm concerned. He's so determined to broadbrush the entire opposition to the Cobo plan as "bigoted" that he ends up losing what little credibility he had with me. I guess Hendrix is also part of this "black nationalist" bloc in the city then, too, since all opposition to Cobo was race-based. Really, let's keep following this ridiculous point he was trying to make to its conclusion. No, he wasn't on point, at all. He was out to beat up the "dirty, f%cking hippies" as they would have been called in the 60's at the expense of doing justice to what was a complicated disaster of a vote by council with more than just one (i.e. 'black nationalist') moving part. I really hate this dumbing down of how people view the council. Like any council, there are voting blocs and informal/situational alliances. On this vote, it seems that someone(s) was/were able to turn Tinsley, who seems to be one of the swing votes on the council, anyway. I'd be much more interested in seeing someone do a column on why Alberta Tinsley-Talabi switch her vote, than some oversimplified hit piece on the citizens of Detroit by a disingenuous, conservative hack who has displayed through his numerous columns that he gets little more than some sick thrill out of the city's failings. He's never constructive in his criticism. He reminds me of conservative columnist Thomas Sowell in this way. (Message edited by lmichigan on March 01, 2009) | ||
Detroit_expat Member Username: Detroit_expat Post Number: 83 Registered: 10-2003 |
I agree with Lmichigan that Nolan Finley is a conservative hack. But it is undeniable that his column linked to above is correct, in every way. It's frightening when the ignorance and arrogance on display by City Council rises to the degree necessary to make Finley credible. (Message edited by Detroit Ex-Pat on March 01, 2009) | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 623 Registered: 10-2003 |
Great post by Lmichigan. My sentiments exactly... | ||
Showstoppa Member Username: Showstoppa Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2008 |
Even though Finley is a conservative, I do agree that this city council has bought shame to the city of Detroit. It's one thing not to agree with a person, however it can be done in a respectful manner. This council stands in the way of progress out of fear that everyone is trying to take over the city. Come November I hope everyone on council is voted out, and Detroit can start it's renaissance with new sane, respectful, ethical leadership. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4201 Registered: 10-2003 |
BTW, I think Kilpatrick's ouster changed the entire political landscape of Detroit more than many people realize or will admit, and I think the primary was just a sneak-peak at the shake-ups to come down the road, particularly if Bing gets in. I think Monica, in particular, knows that her days as council president are numbered. Remember, she only got to be president because Cockrel moved up to the mayors seat. Her name recognition got her only the second place (and thus the vice presidency) finish in the year she was elected (and it got Cockrel first place, council president), and this was before everyone knew her for the nut that she is. In fact, Conyers barely got the number two spot in the 2005 elections. She only bested Watson for second place by under a thousand votes, and only bested Shelia Cockrel by less than 4,000 votes. This is not to mention that Ken beat Conyers by nearly 20,000 votes looking at the election records. To put things into even greater perspective, this was the same year that the only candidate Lonnie Bates beat was the already retired Maryann Mahaffey. Change is coming; in fact, change is already happening. As for me being 'disrespectful' to Finley, let me just end with the fact that the Detroit Free Press did an excellent editorial on this issue of the dysfunctional council (more specifically a piece against Monica) back on February 11 where they spoke to many thinks Finley spoke of to his piece. It was a very nicely laid out case, and without extra shit Finley feels he needs to dump on the city. Whoever says that messengers don't matter as much as the message are wrong. The Free Press was dead right in their assessment and did it in a way that was clear, concise and on point, and without all of the nasty personal malice that comes from foolish curmudgeons like Finley. (Message edited by lmichigan on March 01, 2009) | ||
Firstandten Member Username: Firstandten Post Number: 728 Registered: 05-2006 |
Bravo Lmichigan ! can't add much more to that. | ||
Locke09 Member Username: Locke09 Post Number: 11 Registered: 02-2009 |
I can't take much issue with what Finley said. Council's behavior was embarrassing. They play right into the hands of people who want to say that Detroit is incapable of governing itself. It infuriates me when I see them allow what should be a civil and objective discussion, and a decision based on facts, deteriorate into juvenile name-calling, divisiveness and extremism. But Detroit City Council and the "black nationalists" are not the only ones who are guilty of this behavior. The name-calling, insults, stereotyping and "let's take our ball and go home" mentality is prevalent on every news site and blog I visit. There is little if any critical analysis of this or any other issue. If there is any, it is drowned out by anger and hostility being spewed out on both sides. The hostility did not just begin. It began before any deal was ever struck. Some of the same people who didn't want a deal at all are now furious that Council had the audacity to reject a deal. And I have a question: "Why do we keep acting as though the suburbs are subsidizing Cobo? You are subsidizing something when your return on investment is negative. Independent reports show that Oakland and Macomb County realize 40% of the economic benefit of Cobo, but only contribute 20% of the total funding for Cobo. Oakland County sees an 18:1 return and Macomb County sees a 12:1 return. That is not bad at all. Everyone's concern should be, "Does this deal respect and protect each entity's financial interests in Cobo?" That question can be answered by looking at the numbers and leaving out the rhetoric and hostility. My hopes for the entire region have faded. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4202 Registered: 10-2003 |
Atwater, If that's all you got out of my posts, I'm sorry. That he's a conservative hack is only one strike against him, and not a big one, really. That he's generally an unconstructive dick of a writer is a far greater strike against his credibility on criticizing the city council. Again, as far as the final point is concerned (i.e. the council is dysfunctional/council dropped the ball on Cobo), Mr. Finley and myself agree. His focus and most everything in between that point? Yeah, not so much. If you actually read my criticisms of Finleys, you'd see that my beef with him is on his focus and style. That he sees everything through conservative eyes is just the cherry on top. I also think Finley is more personally race biased than quite a few of the people he loves accuse of being the same thing. His accusation that there is some kind of "black nationalist" bloc on council as if council is composed of sitting Black Panthers delves just about into winger conspiracy theory. Does he even know what a black nationalist is, and what kind of connotations that term carries? If he wants to throw around rhetorical bombs like that and insinuate, what if I told him that if the council is the governmental arm of black nationalists that that makes him (from the general tone of his columns) a grand wizard in all of this? Seriously, it'd be akin to him insinuating, or openly accusing as he did in this case, that the Livonia or Warren city council had a white supremacist voting bloc. If there are some on council still stuck back in 67', it's obvious from his writings that he's right there with them fighting...on the other side of history. Council's handling of Cobo was downright despicable. Finley's coverage of this has been nothing less, and nothing short of, tacky yellow journalism. (Message edited by lmichigan on March 01, 2009) | ||
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad Post Number: 320 Registered: 02-2006 |
It's Finley's blog, it's not "journalism". Who cares? I totally agree with his assessment on Monica. When will blacksoulXXX show up and really write some nonsense? | ||
Bshea Member Username: Bshea Post Number: 33 Registered: 01-2009 |
Pingree in '09! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H azen_Pingree I simply don't understand how people these days can sit around talking about "we're not on the plantation any more" "white-mail" "they don't look like me" and "standing in the school house door." It defiles and cheapens the people that actually had to deal with the evil of those things. The race card in the hands of the people using it today in this situation has became the worst sort of fake ID. | ||
Sumas Member Username: Sumas Post Number: 767 Registered: 01-2008 |
This column spoke to me. The council is embarassing and entirely out of touch with the needs of the city and citizens. I am enclosing a copy of an e mail I sent him. "Thank you Mr. Finley I appreciate your strong words regarding our infamous council. As a community activist, dare I say, a white community activist, I have been in front of the Clowncil, on several occaisions. My last visit was pure classic racist antics by this unesteemed body My crime, I tried to read into the records, several letters of support from reputable city organizations. Ms Watson, heckled me and physically and verbally shooed me to leave the city. Apparently, white voters are not respected or wanted. I work as a volunteer with numerous non profits. These groups are multi racial and very diverse in ethnicity, income and interests. These groups work hard to promote our neighborhoods and city concerns. Too bad the idiots on our council don't get the fact that there are real people in this city who recognize common concerns that transcends race and manage to work together for a common good. This council is not remotely connected to the city I live in. As a representative body, they make me shudder. They also give a bad name to city employees who work hard to serve the citizens. I could give kudos to so many people but this is an email and should be somewhat brief. Thank you for saying what needed to be said. These jokers need to go and be replaced by a thoughtful concerned and representative body." | ||
Lodgedodger Member Username: Lodgedodger Post Number: 1575 Registered: 05-2008 |
Finley's column was spot-on. He portrayed the council in a true light. I've had comments made to me at council meetings. They are a bunch of idiots (save for a few). They haven't the intelligence or training to do anything other than the most menial of jobs, yet they hold some of the highest elected positions in this city. Unless the voters change the board in November, I'm through with this city. With me, I'll be taking all the monies I donate to non-profits in the city, all my volunteer time, and all taxes and money spent in this city. | ||
Buzzman0077 Member Username: Buzzman0077 Post Number: 200 Registered: 11-2006 |
The actions of the clowncil, have demonstrated that they are not only incapable of acting in the best interest of the city, but that they are also unable to function with any form of class. I'm just glad I'll have a chance to vote in the next election. If it doesn't produce better leaders, then I believe, there is no recousre outside of the state stepping in,(and in no way do I believe our state leaders are any good, but anything is better than what Detroit has right now). | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 1214 Registered: 11-2003 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =elPBqOvgl5w Bingo nails it and doesn't pull any punches. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 2435 Registered: 08-2007 |
I was at the Livonia meeting that has been referred to above. One it was not a Council meeting, but a rather Planning Commision Meeting where the public was invited to speak. The meeting was to discuss tearing down Wonderland Mall and building a WallMart. One old lady got up and said she didn't want the WallMart built because it would bring in Detroiters and therefore crime. She was booed and shouted down, the chairwoman gavelled her off and instructed the gathered crowd that such language was unwelcomed. The lady was bewildered that she had said anything wrong, she seemed completely surprised to have the entire room turn against her. On the news that night, what was covered? Not the hundreds of people who were angered by her message, but a single confused old lady repeating sentiments from a lifetime ago. And what gets handed down years later as fact? That a race baiting shit storm hit the fan at a Livonia City Council Meeting. Based on that lie an entire myth is perpetuated that serves cetain people agendas to say, "See, they're worse than we are." If you don't like the news or Nolan for his editorial position it seems strange to call him a hack. I thought a hack was someone who was unskilled at his trade or profession. A hack writer would be someone who churns out poorly constructed sentences, just as a poorly trained woodsman would hack together unrefined logs into furniture. I might not like Nolan, but I see no evidence that he is a hack. Now, a flack is a different word altogether and may come closer to describing your feelings about Nolan. A flack is a slick PR person, usually a former journalist who is a paid spokesman for someone. Their job is to spin the news in favor of their client. But a flack is not a hack. Most flacks are slick and skillful; which therefore precludes them from being labeled hacks or unskilled. A good example of a flack would have been Bob Berg, spokesman for Coleman Young. An example of a hack would have been that wife-beater Matt Allen. So some folks might just want to consult a dictionary/thesaurus before they try to insult someone; moreover they might want to get their facts straight before constructing bogus arguments to bolster pre-packaged finger wagging. Just a thought. | ||
Brg Member Username: Brg Post Number: 30 Registered: 02-2009 |
I imagine Oakland County, working with local dealers, NAIAS people, and others, could find another venue that could be adapted (with necessary investment, of course) to host the auto show. (Screw Detroit, revitalize Pontiac and make it the regional hub?) You need money for that? Good luck with that..... As for Finley's column, I read it and it is shameful. Shameful that my council and citizens of my city would act in a shameful matter but this is METRO DETROIT. This performance has been done in every city in the three counties. Let's not pretend that race don't factor in the actions of cities. It should not be this way but it is. As for the City Council and their love of Cobo and jobs for Detroiters well understand that if the state was willing to give more money to Detroit this would have been a moot point. Conyers was giving a dog and pony show to the supporters and media. Green trumps Black and White. Believe that..... | ||
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican Post Number: 929 Registered: 02-2007 |
Nolan Finley hit the nail on the head with his column this morning. Too bad he can't take that hammer and clobber some sense into racist Conyers and her racist colleagues. Race shouldn't play into this equation at all, but with every opportunity, Conyers makes herself look like a total buffoon. Is she so stupid that she can't see how much of a joke she really is? She is so hell bent on sticking it to whitey that her reasoning capabilities (if she ever had any) are null and void. She needs to be thrown out of clowncil as does the other jokes sitting in those chairs. She is revealing her true feelings about anyone who is not "like her" known. Her "plantation" remarks are rude and insulting. John, please rein her in if you can, she's not only an embarrassment for Detroit but you should be horrified by her as well. (Message edited by Buyamerican on March 01, 2009) | ||
Wazootyman Member Username: Wazootyman Post Number: 418 Registered: 02-2006 |
quote: Thank you for posting this, I was about to say the same. I live in a neighborhood near the development, so I was also at the meeting. Both the council and the public (presumably mostly Livonia residents) quickly turned sour on the speaker once she turned it into a racial issue. I recall it being stated by an official that such statements were unacceptable and would not be allowed to continue (can't recall the exact language - this was some time ago). The paper sensationalized it, because it makes a better story. | ||
Brg Member Username: Brg Post Number: 31 Registered: 02-2009 |
"She is so hell bent on sticking it to whitey that her reasoning capabilities (if she ever had any) are null and void." Buyamerican, you do know Conyers is putting on a show right? You really believe it is about race? If Conyers were so concerned about Detroit losing Cobo and not getting jobs for Detroiters, she would have never made the drive from Detroit to Lansing the next day pressing for a new deal. If she feels that everyone is treating Detroit like a plantation then why deal with your overseers? It is all about the money. Ms. Conyers may be Black and a woman but she is a politician first. If the state had offered let's say 100 million the vote would have been 8-0 but 20 million is no more than a down payment. | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 4099 Registered: 11-2007 |
Bob Berg ? | ||
Cinderpath Member Username: Cinderpath Post Number: 943 Registered: 05-2006 |
Finley points out the obvious, so what is the big deal? As for Finley, yes he is a complete partisan hack, who in getting caught up up in the glee of the "Axis of evil" Bush days, once wrote by far the dumbest thing ever written in the Detroit News on foreign policy ever: advocating the US use of nuclear weapons on other countries just to keep them in line. I could not believe the depths of stupidity of such an article, and it too displays gaps in his intelligence, just as he points out with Monica. Since then I stopped reading him. I have no use for either of them. | ||
Daddeeo Member Username: Daddeeo Post Number: 508 Registered: 09-2008 |
I don't usually agree with Finley but this time no truer words were ever spoken. That attitude the council expressed is a big reason "outsiders" don't want to have anything to do with Detroit. As a former resident of 28 years, I wouldn't come back to Detroit if they fixed the schools, crime problem and tax situation with that type of attitude shown by city council. Plain ignorance. Who wants to help them out if they won't help themselves? | ||
Lodgedodger Member Username: Lodgedodger Post Number: 1576 Registered: 05-2008 |
I'm with you, Daddeeo. Generally, I don't care for his views, but today, he's on the money. I sent him an email this AM thanking him for the column, he replied shortly thereafter with a "thank you". | ||
Detrola Member Username: Detrola Post Number: 96 Registered: 02-2006 |
Lmichigan, Thank you for providing further evidence in support of my premise that the biggest issue facing detroit today is the systemic culture of DENIAL. | ||
Firstandten Member Username: Firstandten Post Number: 731 Registered: 05-2006 |
I never thought the elevation of Ken Cockrel to interim mayor would change the dynamics of the council the way that it has. The council as a political body has been lacking for some time, but Cockrel's leaving probably caused the Cobo deal to not pass. As a political reality you don't tell a body of politicans all of whom are up for re-election later this year that you need to take this deal(Cobo)because this is the best you're going to get. Rightly or wrongly the voters of Detroit view regionalism with a skeptic eye and for good historical reasons. The voters over time will have to be educated to the advantages of a regional approach to issues such as Cobo and other assets in the city that the city due to the economy cannot really maintain. However I suspect the council wants to do the Cobo deal but they are not buying the "this is the best deal you're going to get" and thats the reason for the obstructionism. I've said in the past Detroiters do too much voting by name recognition for any election other than mayor. What you get because of that is a mish-mash of personalities with these large bodies (council 9 members, DPS 11 members). We Detroiters do need to do a better job of vetting our candidates for public office. | ||
Brg Member Username: Brg Post Number: 32 Registered: 02-2009 |
I've said in the past Detroiters do too much voting by name recognition for any election other than mayor. What you get because of that is a mish-mash of personalities with these large bodies (council 9 members, DPS 11 members). We Detroiters do need to do a better job of vetting our candidates for public office. Now with the useless school board, they are elected by districts but the City Council, well everytime suggest districts someone (Shelia Cockrel this means you) is crying that electing by districts or regions would lead into corruption. (where have I heard that word corruption?) Detroit needs to create nine districts so that the members of City Council would have to campaign in those districts and thus end the name recognition vote. (No future M. Conyers) | ||
Firstandten Member Username: Firstandten Post Number: 733 Registered: 05-2006 |
"Detroit needs to create nine districts so that the members of City Council would have to campaign in those districts and thus end the name recognition vote. (No future M. Conyers" On election day I signed a petition to allow voting for council by districts. This is of course not perfect but as Brg stated it would help the voters in vetting there candidates. |
