  Bobl Member Username: Bobl Post Number: 587 Registered: 07-2008 |
I agree that Nolan Finley is a "conservative hack", but could find nothing untrue in his column. I would like to see Ms Conyers and the Councils' plan to come up with the 100 million dollars in debt that would have been wiped off the City's books by the plan, and raise the 15 million dollars annual tab for maintenance of Cobo that would have been nearly eliminated. This area has two choices: Regionalize and have a chance to succeed, or continue the us vs them b.s. that has resulted in disaster. | ||
Brg Member Username: Brg Post Number: 33 Registered: 02-2009 |
Bobl, you will be waiting a very long time to see Conyers' plan because she doesn't have one. Two truths here: 1) The city does not have the tax base to manage any large project on their own. There is no money. 2) This ia an election year. The article by Finley was true but he left the impression that Detroit is so black that we would frown on White cooperation. Not all the citizens feel that way and believe "what's best for Detroit" is what matters. I know he tried to single out Conyers, the crowd but he made the mistake of saying what if this was this a White council, a White crowd; Al Sharpton would be protesting. This region just can't win because the region will always be viewed as "Black city, White suburbs." | ||
Detroitus Member Username: Detroitus Post Number: 4 Registered: 02-2009 |
I hate to admit the racial implications but the Cobo mess reminds me of Zimbabwe where Robert Mugabe see his country become a dysfunctional, poverty stricken mess than give up one inch of power. Too bad. Detroit once was one of the richest major cities and Zimbabwe the bread basket of Africa. And now.... And like the council habit of of blaming outsiders (suburbanites) for the city's problems Mugabe still blames the British instead of taking responsibility like true leaders do. I know it's pie in the sky thinking, and would be opposed by many entrenched interest on both sides of 8 mile but there should be a regional summit on how to transfer ownership and responsibility for existing infrastructure to a regional board as well as plan for new systems in the future. To the best of my knowledge the Metro Parks system works well under a similar regional structure. If this did happen maybe the area would finally get a working regional mass transit system. | ||
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican Post Number: 930 Registered: 02-2007 |
^^^^^With Detroit elected officials and appointees throwing the race card out there like 52 pick-up, how should our region be viewed? I haven't heard any suburban official using the "us vs. them" scenario. Conyers needs to step down because she can't control herself. The others on that clowncil are like little lemmings and will follow her anywhere. They have no opinions, no ideas, no input. They are just there to fill a seat, get big salaries, good benefits and to raise their hands when Conyers says to do so. | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 815 Registered: 11-2003 |
Everytime I read about Zimbabwe it reminds me of Detroit. The similarities are unbelievable. | ||
Stosh Member Username: Stosh Post Number: 70 Registered: 01-2009 |
quote: If she is putting on a show, what does that say about the people she is putting on the show for? Her pandering to the elements of society that buy into this schtick is equal to the racist ramblings of many white commentators that also play into the fears of "the other" or the "outsider". No difference. It is seemingly all about the money, I'd agree. But Ms. Conyers and others on the council have a vastly overblown estimate of the value of Cobo. In it's present state, it's not worth what they think it is. I wonder what the city could get for it if they sold it out right and put the precious riverfront land to some other productive use? I think then what it's true worth is would become apparent. 15 million dollars a year in operating cost to the city with a whole lot of needed upgrades upwards of 200 million + doesn't exactly equate to a "jewel" of the city. A money pit? Perhaps. The Cobo Center has become functionally obsolete in it's present form. The city has probably lost countless conventions due to it's lack of size and amenities. Making it an "African Market" as I've read elsewhere just doesn't seem realistic for what it currently costing the city. I agree that there needs to be a clear cut plan for not only the renovation but a significant expansion of the Center. Replacement of Cobo's heating and cooling systems should be based on sustainable technologies using it's natural location by the river for geothermal applications (green)The Joe Louis Arena has to be factored in as well. What is the holdup? Shouldn't a decision be reached regarding JLA? That also holds up the whole decision making process as well. I hope that the City Council, and all the players in this can come up to some manner of workable compromise to satisfy all concerned. The regional concept is probably the best option to manage the facility. Maybe not the exact plan, but sweetening the pot a little couldn't hurt either, since the city has to pay the police for crowd control for events, don't they? . | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 3031 Registered: 01-2004 |
"Finley is a conservative hack" +1 | ||
Thames Member Username: Thames Post Number: 405 Registered: 02-2007 |
"The article by Finley was true but he left the impression that Detroit is so black that we would frown on White cooperation. Not all the citizens feel that way..." The majority of the city council feels that way. The city council is elected by the citizens of Detroit. (Message edited by thames on March 01, 2009) | ||
Rosedaleken Member Username: Rosedaleken Post Number: 235 Registered: 06-2005 |
I couldn't agree more with the article. Not giving someone the dignity of speaking because he was white? Those workers look like you...?!?? Don't you say his name here? Unacceptable. Monica Conyers is an embarrassment to the city. The deal wasn't perfect but the city can't maintain the facility and that's that. | ||
65memories Member Username: 65memories Post Number: 459 Registered: 10-2003 |
I agree with Ken and others...I can't wait til the Council elections...as a Detroiter, I will be working hard for a wholesale change...for people with integrity...people like Cub and Gary Brown...John Bennant and others. I watch these proceedings on TV and feel Kwame Kenyatta's pain...and embarrassment. | ||
Brownfieldguy Member Username: Brownfieldguy Post Number: 52 Registered: 02-2009 |
Detroit will destroy itself. And that is bad. It is a self fulfilling prophecy that "whitey" will take it back from "us." Good old racism. Detroit leadership will drive it into this ending and this is just another step. I'm not a big fan of Nolan Finley, but his comments are true. Implosion will come. And then Lansing and the surrounding suburbs will end up stepping into the void to make something of it. Cobo (if it exists), DPS (if it exists), DWSD, and other organizations will become regional authorities or recreated in some other manner. Of course, the "white racists" from Lansing (maybe that white female governor from lansing - to paraphrase Watson)and from Macomb and Oakland counties will try to effect change for their own survival and of course they will be called racists. Why, because they are not black. They will be taking away what is "ours," etc. and blah, blah, blah. There is an election coming. Just about the entire Detroit governmental system needs a change. Make it happen. But I fear the same crap will occur and same idiots will be returned to office. | ||
Sumas Member Username: Sumas Post Number: 773 Registered: 01-2008 |
I will also work hard for wholesale change at the council level. Color/ race, matter little to me, I am looking for vision, integrity, real ties to this city's population needs and some plain old common sense. Let's dump these clowns! | ||
Daddeeo Member Username: Daddeeo Post Number: 510 Registered: 09-2008 |
You know, it's amazing and refreshing to hear how Obama talks compared with George Bush. You might not like what he says but explains himself in an intelligent way. Compare that to Bing or Cockrel and Conyers. Same difference. Intelligence versus ignorance. I hope the next city election will also bring the CHANGE that Detroit needs. | ||
Daddeeo Member Username: Daddeeo Post Number: 511 Registered: 09-2008 |
You know, it's amazing and refreshing to hear how Obama talks compared with George Bush. You might not like what he says but he explains himself in an intelligent way. Compare that to Bing or Cockrel and Conyers. Same difference. Intelligence versus ignorance. I hope the next city election will also bring the CHANGE that Detroit needs. | ||
Firstandten Member Username: Firstandten Post Number: 736 Registered: 05-2006 |
I think that just about everyone can agree that council could use improvement. The focus that people like Lmichigan, Brg and others are alluding to is the fan-the-flames style of Finley. Yet, there was a similar editorial (I know Finley's wasn't an editorial but he is part of the staff) in the Freep which basically covered the same ground but was more nuanced, yet I seen few comments about it. Its like some of you are using Finley's comments to rail against the very things you accuse Detroiters of. The council members could be obstructionist or they could be black nationalist racists take your pick it depends on your point of view. I tend toward the former, if you feel the latter expect some pushback from Detroiters which in the long run doesn't get us anywhere. Anyway, I maintain at least a couple of council members will be "one term and done" now that the voters have seen what they are about. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3836 Registered: 04-2006 |
Wow. Reading his column, you'd think that every council member opposed the Cobo deal. I loved this line of his because it's wording expresses everything wrong with Metro Detroit: quote: So one can't be both white and a citizen? Hmm. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4203 Registered: 10-2003 |
Apparently not. I don't think people get that something like Finley's column does nothing constructive. In fact, it adds to the regions problems. He's not a solution, or even if you think that's not his job as a columnist, a benign gadfly. He's part of the problem. Finley's hit-and-run style writing is exactly why someone as bat-shit crazy as Monica Conyers can get away with the shit she does. If folks like Finley want to keep seeing people like Conyers elected and re-elected, well, then, they should keep doing what they are doing. I brought up the Free Press editorial, the other day, concerning this issue, and, today, they have another great piece on Cobo by Ficano. I just wish this is how newspapers would be more responsible in their rhetoric. Finley's hyperbolic, rhetoric bomb of a piece turns Conyers and the other four into the martyrs and saints they were hoping to become, and we can thank columnists like Finley for giving politicians like Monica ammo to work with. Monica & Co. look foolish enough on their own. It's really too bad then that Finley feels the need to overkill the situation, as I'm quite sure he's aware of how his biases come across. BTW, here is my favorite online response to Finley's article at Detnews.com: quote: Just lovely. (Message edited by lmichigan on March 01, 2009) | ||
Pythonmaster Member Username: Pythonmaster Post Number: 254 Registered: 12-2006 |
Finley was a Bush lackey for 8 years and an apologist for the big 3 forever. He's right about the council, but he has little credibility outside of the DAC locker room. | ||
Leannam1989 Member Username: Leannam1989 Post Number: 205 Registered: 06-2008 |
From an outsiders' point-of-view, it does sound like this city council is a detriment to the city of Detroit, the gem of a city it was, and what it could become. You gotta work with all kinds of people (different races, political parties, whatever) to get the best for your city. | ||
Garrick Member Username: Garrick Post Number: 6 Registered: 01-2009 |
"Don't mourn, organize!" http://www.facebook.com/home.p hp#/group.php?gid=78704287424 | ||
Jerrytimes Member Username: Jerrytimes Post Number: 180 Registered: 04-2007 |
Daddeeo are you serious? He's a better talker, but besides that what makes him better? Nothing. Put him on the spot with a random question and have fun. The word CHANGE is overrated because when it comes down to it, it's all the same crap. Politicians are all the same. | ||
Blksoul_x Member Username: Blksoul_x Post Number: 456 Registered: 06-2007 |
In this city, in years past, Black Africans had to endure the harsh reality of white-folk with their racist leadership and their duplicitous and slanted policies to which helped contribute to 'their' rise and the destruction of our communities, our businesses, our family, our young boys, our schools, and pretty much kept us from becoming a competitive group. For years, 'we' reluctantly went along with the plan, hoping that we as a group could share the boon of amerikkkas' democracy. Only now, years later, we are in a lesser position, educationally, economically and politically to say the least. Part of the reason is, we continue to play the wrong game. We are playing the game that pretty much helped wipe us out as a group. We have bits and pieces in place to advance as a group, but continue to share our nominal power with people that don't look like us and don't have our best interest in mind. It is a wonder why 'these' people continue to debase us and attempt to interrupt the progress that will set Black citizens in power. They understand the advantage of power and what some Black leaders of the city are working toward, and that is a Black power control in this region. Why else would they continue to be hostile and agitate the citizens and the leaders that we elect to run this city. Black Africans in this city ought to be out-raged at the white folk who constantly speak in such a demeaning tone about the behavior of Black leaders. You don't hear them speaking scurvy about the governor and her coterie. It seems, they feel they have free reign to say what ever they want about Black leadership. They don't even hide their hatred anymore. Whether they agree with them or not, they ought show a bit more respect for our people. Nolen Finley of the Detroit News continues to perpetuate images of our city that are not in the best interest of the city of Detroit. I don't understand why there is not a call for a city wide boycott against the Free Press and News. How much abuse do we continue to take from these white lynch mob institutions in and around this city. They put our people on a plank and publically lynch them for all to see. They have successfully divided the Black citizens of Detroit. The city cannot win if we are divided. We must understand the advantage of a social democracy, and that is putting the power in the hand of the majority citizenry. Last checked, in this city, Black Africans are the majority people. So then, we ought to be the first to be helped. From my understanding of the game of amerikkkan' social democracy, fundamentally, the majority population is suppose to dominate and direct. To be sure, 'amerikkas social demokkkracy' continues to be in full affect. 'They' take care of the majority people in this country that look like them, which is the 'basic white' society. Other groups that come to amerikkka' learn and perform the same game. To be sure, we as a people came into this dilemma as a group. However, social racism has been our major impediment. Since racism has been a group effort, we must play and win the battle as a group. The city of Detroit and it's majority Black population must have a new perspective, and that is one of group solidarity amongst the majority Black citizenship, and play the game that all other group of people in amerikkka through time have played. In Detroit, Black Africans self-interests, including the City Council, Mayor, our area representation, police, schools, municipalities, and such must be put ahead of every other group. (That don't mean we dislike other groups)... It simply means we as a group have matured politically and economically and neither love nor treat any other group better than we love ourselves. Once we get to that point, we don't have to worry about the racist lynch-mobs that write and print negative and sensationalized rhetoric in their medias. The economic and political power will control all that is attached and connected to negative propaganda. I like the idea of what some of 'our' people in our city have moved toward, and that is a Black Nationalistic standpoint with white-folk as ancillary agents. If 'basic-white folk have a problem with that, they ought to remember the past and present representation of the white power structure in this kkkountry...perhaps the reason why they were able to stay in, as they say, use-to-be-nice inner-city areas, and them moved out to their over-priced bungalows and townhouses in their burbs. We want in on the game. We have suffered long enough, it is time for some true Black control! Those that don't like it...well, you know the saying about 8 mile!....those that want to work with the city...Detroit welcomes you! blksoul_atcha! We are the ones we have been waiting for! | ||
Tkshreve Member Username: Tkshreve Post Number: 763 Registered: 07-2006 |
Soooo........ is everyone allowed to use Obama's name in Detroit City Council meetings yet or not? Let me know when that time comes so I can start officially giving a shit. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 1165 Registered: 07-2007 |
I'm with LMichigan. What was Finley's point? Who's he talking to? The suburbanites who can now write off all of Detroit because Finley's declared that Detroit's leaders are crazy? Suffering Detroiters who already know what kind of leaders they have and that change won't come until they elect new and better members to Council? Those who support the Monica Conyer's view who now have one more example of "the man" using his power to attack her? People in Finley's position should write something because they have something new or informative to say and solutions to offer to the problems they see. Anyone here could have written that rant and probably done as well or better at writing it. Even Frank Beckmann, who regularly falls into the hack category, managed to crank out a more useful and coherent column than Finley: http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20090227/OPINI ON03/902270317/1008/opinion01 Just because you can Nolan doesn't mean you should. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4206 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Bingo! And, in many fewer words, in fact. Really, you take some like Monica, who knows how to start a fire and did, but, instead of writing a piece where he could have stayed above the fray and still reveal her ridiculousness, he throws more gasoline on it? Excuse if some of us have a "WTF?!" moment. It definitely makes you wonder who he's speaking too? Why? And, it almost makes you wonder about the motives of those effusing praise for the guy, but especially those saying that he was "on point". He was everyhing but being on point. In fact, he was purposefully skirting being on point the entire time by his very purposeful use of inflammatory rhetoric. So, how can he possibly be a "voice of reason", here? How is he any less contributing to regionalism distrust than Monica? It's obvious Finley wants a war, and, boy, you believe he's going to get it. He took someone like me, who at the very most found him a distateful hack, to a point where I find him a destructive, bigoted hack. I very much want to hear Lowell chime in, on this. It's funny, I don't usually respond to threads like this and certainly not so many times and with such force, but I'm not sure what's worst, that Finley chose to write in the way that he did, or that he's being called "brilliant" and "brave" when he's more like the city council that he criticizes more than he will ever be willing to admit. It makes me wonder where I person like me can fit into this, because I find Monica's antics, and Finley's response to those antics both equally egregious and unnecessary. (Message edited by lmichigan on March 02, 2009) | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 946 Registered: 08-2008 |
Nolan Finley? Totally irrelevent! Finley's a closet case. I can't imagine anything he might add to an honest, open, conversation, particularly as it might apply to the City of Detroit, race, economics, compassion and humans. | ||
Garrick Member Username: Garrick Post Number: 7 Registered: 01-2009 |
What's ironic to me among all the debate raging over Cobo Hall right now is the very name of the facility itself, juxtaposed with the racial fears animating the discussion...and that the name still exists in any position of "honor"! It was named after Albert Cobo, a notoriously conservative and anti-black mayor during the 1950s whose policies devastated interracial relations in the city, perhaps to a boiling point that famously exploded during the tenure of the progressive and integrationist Jerome Cavanagh in 1967. To wit: From Sugrue [OUC]: "The political tensions of race and public housing came to a head in the mayoral election of 1949. Liberal Common Council member George Edwards faced conservative City Treasurer Albert Cobo. Edwards, a one-time UAW activist, former public housing administrator, and New Deal Democrat was the political antithesis of Cobo, a corporate executive, real estate investor, and Republican. Cobo focused his campaign on the issues of race and public housing. Armed with the endorsement of most white neighborhood improvement associations, Cobo swept the largely white precincts on the Northeast and Northwest sides,...The distinction between Cobo and Edwards was crystal clear. Cobo adamantly opposed 'Negro invasions' and public housing, whereas Councilman Edwards had championed the right of blacks to decent housing anywhere in the city..." [p. 82] "Roman Ceglowski, president of the Detroit Civic League, who opposed 'attempts to change the racial character of any Detroit neighborhood,' praised Cobo's public housing policy as 'healthy...and truly American.'" [p. 85] "Mayor Albert Cobo, the city's most ardent supporter of the new expressway system (and a Republican who was elected with virtually no black support), discounted the hardship wrought by construction..." [p. 48] "Republican Mayor Albert Cobo (1950-1957) was sworn in for his third term in 1954. Cobo built a solid base of support among white working- and middle-class homeowners, and forged close alliances with white civic associations and anti-civil rights activists." [p. 223] How about Cavanagh Hall instead? CAVA Hall? Fifty, even sixty years later and we are still having the same sandlot, childish arguments about race and power, instead of working together as a city, state, and nation to provide the most opportunity for a modern diverse population that is sick and tired of labels, especially Capitalized Labels. Sad. Grow up Detroit! Grow up suburbs! Join the 21st century! | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 949 Registered: 08-2008 |
Garrick, thank you! | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4207 Registered: 10-2003 |
Thanks for this other dimension, Garrick, and welcome. | ||
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad Post Number: 321 Registered: 02-2006 |
None of the smoke changes the fact that Monica is out of control. She blew it big time. IOW. The race card isn't working this time. Too bad for you if you if that's all you've got. |
