Discuss Detroit DISCUSS DETROIT! The old Tiger Stadium, Anatomy of an Earmark Previous Next
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Flybydon
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Username: Flybydon

Post Number: 271
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 12:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Senate's leading anti-pork crusader, Republican Tom Coburn, to single out one earmark, one lone spending provision, that best symbolized the kind of waste that Coburn and a few other lonely lawmakers are fighting.

http://www.dcexaminer.com/poli tics/Anatomy-of-an-Earmark-408 29797.html
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 3964
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 1:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't have any problem with Congressional earmarks. Each one is important to some local group, and the money is being spent right here in the good old USA where it should be instead of Iraq or Korea or some other god-forsaken place that could care less about us.
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Big_baby_jebus
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Username: Big_baby_jebus

Post Number: 102
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 1:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The stadium is an eye sore and a waste. Myself, along with the rest of my friends in Corktown don't want to look at it anymore.

Tear it down, sell off the land. I'm a Detroiter and I can't even see the benefit of having a piece of crap baseball museum in a city that no one wants to come to.

Rebuild this city first, then worry about museums and stuff like that. Look at how well the DIA is doing.
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Alan55
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Username: Alan55

Post Number: 2604
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Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 1:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's right, tear it down, it's old. While you're at it, tear down that old crap Scott Fountain on Belle Isle, that old, old, Whitney Mansion, and the out-of-date Fisher Building. With a little hard work and a lot of demolition, we can make Detroit have all of the class and style of Sterling Heights.



"Look at how well the DIA is doing."

(They just laid off 20 percent of their staff.)
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 1877
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Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 1:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nero ever fiddles while Rome ever burns.
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Brg
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Username: Brg

Post Number: 37
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 1:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Truth be told, Tiger Studium should have been torn down back in 2000. The stadium sat empty for years because of Detroit's morbid desire to maintain something old.
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Novine
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Username: Novine

Post Number: 1205
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 2:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wonder how it is that Coburn couldn't find a project from a Republican Senator when Republicans account for the majority of top ear-markers in the Senate?

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/jo hn-farrell/2009/03/05/republic an-hypocrisy-on-earmarks-ask-s enators-cochran-wicker-and-vit ter.html
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Jasoncw
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Username: Jasoncw

Post Number: 515
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Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 2:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that earmarks are shady, and that if there is to be money directed towards things like preserving stadiums it should be channeled through historic tax credit programs and those kinds of things instead of earmarks.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 1879
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 2:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Earmarks are the heroin of the legislative branch of the United States government, kids. They aren't going anywhere, now or ever.
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Xd_brklyn
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Username: Xd_brklyn

Post Number: 377
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 2:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Love this quote:

"I asked Coburn about Detroit, which is by general agreement an unmitigated disaster."

And this one:

"If you want to bring jobs to the area, build some roads, build something that's going to produce wealth,"

Like freeways that create huge no-man lands and tear neighborhoods apart?

Been there, done that.

And this:

"The fact that private business in Detroit didn't see the point in pouring money into the project is probably the answer to that question."

According to the OTSC there is private business investment lined-up if outside helps initiate this project. Skeptical? Then make the earmark contingent on the private investments signing-up along with the Fed money.

Even as a supporter of OTSC I have questions, but this is just more Shock Politik. Coburn is not even in the ballpark about this issue. He's just another public figure playing expert about a city he has probably never visited.

(Message edited by xD_brklyn on March 06, 2009)
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Cloud_wall
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Username: Cloud_wall

Post Number: 26
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 2:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can something be "literally akin to" something else? Sort of like saying "literally analogous to..." or "literally figuratively like..."
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Angry_dad
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Username: Angry_dad

Post Number: 335
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 7:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On another message board this subject came up.

Somebody posted a picture of Tiger Stadium as it is today.

They added a caption.

"Build it and they will come?"
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Eastsideal
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Username: Eastsideal

Post Number: 385
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Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 7:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pretty transparent. More picking on Detroit by the GOP. And finding a way to attack Carl Levin, who is one of the most powerful Democrats in the Senate.
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Beech_cricker
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Username: Beech_cricker

Post Number: 76
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 7:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Brg, clearly you don't know the recent history of the Stadium. Perhaps you should take a look at the DVD "Stranded at the Corner".
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 1098
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 8:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The article infuriated me. If it was a pure opinion piece it might have been ok in a conservative sort of way... but it wasn't. It had nearly every possible factual error.

The article made it sound like the city demolished that stadium and THEN the OTSC came running to save it... WRONG. The OTCS and the city had an agreement to preserve Navin Field from the beginning.

The article ALSO made it seem like this project was to be 100% funded by the feds... Yeah, except for the other $20 million or so coming from other sources...

Idiocy. Tell me why I'm not a GOP member again?
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401don
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Username: 401don

Post Number: 943
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 8:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm happy for the work the OTSC is doing but why do they, as well as others, refer to Tiger Stadium as "Old Tiger Stadium". It is, always has been, always will be, the only Tiger Stadium. You don't hear people say the old Silverdome, old Olympia, etc. Comerica was Tiger Ballpark before naming rights were sold. Is it because of old and new Comiskey? Sorry for the rant, but I really hate that term. It does a disservice to TIGER STADIUM, whether it remains or not.
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Rjk
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Username: Rjk

Post Number: 1226
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 8:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"The article infuriated me."

Spending 3.8 on a baseball stadium is what infuriates me.
It's not often that I contact my politicians but I sent off an email to Levin on this one.
In this rotten economy reading through the list of earmark projects throughout the country just about drove me nuts.

If they're going to spend tax money preserving a structure I just wish they picked one with a better chance of succeeding.
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Stosh
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Username: Stosh

Post Number: 101
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Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 10:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From what I've read above the Conservancy would have to raise another 20 million dollars to even receive this earmark?
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 1115
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 10:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are many grants and incentives. I had a similar reaction to Andy's. I know there are naysayers and but OTSC has a chance that has never been done in this country and very seldom done in the world. Detroit's culture of demolition and history of neglect have spanned many years its about time preservation has its day... Ilitch did his best to use demolition by neglect, but I commend the OTSC for their efforts.

(Message edited by urbanoutdoors on March 06, 2009)
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 1099
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 10:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

First, a disclaimer, I do not claim to represent or speak for OTCS. I am simply an outsider who is interested in the project and reads every single article and release regarding the project.

RJK, whether you believe that the 3.8 million is well spent or not, i'm sure that we could both agree that poor journalism sucks. To address your concern of the project succeeding, I don't believe it is a matter of that. MY understanding is that the 3.8 million is contingent on the project going through. Current expenses are being paid through previous and current donations.

STOSH: You are right in a way, the project would have to go through to receive the $3.8, however, it is not as if the OTCS is starting at $0 right now. You will recall they met the initial DEGC deadline last year which required $300,000 in private donations, a great deal of funds have been raised since. A great number of private parties have made large donations, foundations such as Kresge now financially support the project, and the OTCS has worked tirelessly to bring forth Historic Tax Credit support.

By my calculations, which operate on my best guess of project cost, which is about $25 million, I believe the total budget gap is (assuming the "pork" bill goes through) just $5 million. Not too shabby considering that the OTCS was considered dead by naysayers when Harwell left the project late last year.

I applaud the wonderful preservation work the OTCS is doing. Might this be, after losing Hudsons, Donovan, Little Harry's, Madison Lennox, etc..., the only *major* preservation victory in Detroit history? Maybe.
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Birdie
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Username: Birdie

Post Number: 133
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Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 10:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well said andylinn!!!!

as to some of the other comments on this thread:

"If they're going to spend tax money preserving a structure I just wish they picked one with a better chance of succeeding."

and what might that structure with a better chance of succeeding be? it seems to me that the otsc has come a helluva lot further in this effort than most preservationist groups are ever able to.

and: "Rebuild this city first, then worry about museums and stuff like that. Look at how well the DIA is doing."

how can you rebuild a city without history and culture? this notion is ludicrous!

and for the record, the dia is doing no worse than other cultural institutions around the country are doing in this economic climate. unlike in most civilized nations, cultural institutions are barely supported by our government and rely on donations, grants and large gifts which have greatly dried up in the last year.

we should be grateful that the otsc is having success in raising funds.
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 1100
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 11:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well said birdie.

i see one of the greatest challenges that detroit faces as being us constantly shooting ourselves in the foot (perhaps even both feet) and constantly harping on those persons TRYING to make positive change. (i invoke the threads re: mercury bar, urban bean co, lafayette bldg, and just about every other thread about someone's business, preservation effort, festival, or project) if we carried ourselves higher, had pride in our city, and bragged about our successes, perhaps the rest of the USA wouldn't see us as a punching bag / toilet.

be more like model d, less like the dc examiner please.
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Brg
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Username: Brg

Post Number: 41
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Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 11:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beech_cricker, actually I do know a bit of the history of Bennett Park/Navin Field/Briggs Stadium/Tiger Stadium. Still, what is the benefit of a empty stadium in Detroit?

People like you believed we could had minor league baseball there. Perhaps a concert or two. Would have never happened. Those things I mentioned would have been moved to Comerica Park. So what good is a empty stadium that is falling apart in Detroit?
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 1101
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Posted on Saturday, March 07, 2009 - 3:02 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

brg, i hate to be so to the point, but take away detroit's history and past and what do you have? a wasteland. we need to accept, celebrate, and preserve our past or we turn into a mud-lotted exurban wasteland stat.
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Beech_cricker
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Username: Beech_cricker

Post Number: 77
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Saturday, March 07, 2009 - 7:24 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Brg, so have you watched "Stranded at the Corner"? Based on what you've posted it doesn't sound like it.
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Harpernottingham
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Username: Harpernottingham

Post Number: 419
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 07, 2009 - 8:17 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some people ("PEOPLE," mind you; not "FOLKS," but PEOPLE) call the ballpark "Old Tiger Stadium" to help differentiate it from Comerica Park, which many fans, to this day, erroneously refer to as "Tiger Stadium."

Down with "folks."
Up with "people."
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Beech_cricker
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Username: Beech_cricker

Post Number: 78
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Saturday, March 07, 2009 - 9:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've never liked the term "Old" attached to Tiger Stadium. There is only one Tiger Stadium, "Old" was never part of its official name and it is therefore redundant. This same applies to other structures, e.g. "Old Olympia Stadium".--Jeff
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Rickinatlanta
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Username: Rickinatlanta

Post Number: 275
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 07, 2009 - 9:46 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Detroit's morbid desire to maintain something old."

Now that's a true love of history.
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Michmeister
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Username: Michmeister

Post Number: 293
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 08, 2009 - 2:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

People,you can only tear them down once, then they are forever gone. If that works out with Tiger Stadium like I think it will, we have a chance for something really unique.Time for us to get away from the old is bad, new is good mentality.Besides, what is going to be built there anyway? What is getting built anywhere for that fact? There are other areas that are in much more dire need of developement-State Fair ring a bell?

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