  Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 515 Registered: 10-2006 |
"The entire population of this city has good ideas for what to do with this building." Please give us one good idea. I have yet to hear one. No, an Amtrak station is not a good idea. Nobody is going to spend a billion dollars for three trains daily. And what about the office space, which is the majority of the space? There's already FAR too much office space in metro Detroit, and this is about the worst possible location for space. I don't want the building demolished either, but I have no idea what to do with it. If it was eventually renovated, you would need HUGE taxpayer subsidies and never get a return on investment. | ||
Dcmorrison12 Member Username: Dcmorrison12 Post Number: 101 Registered: 02-2009 |
kenneth.cockrel@detroitmi.gov That's the ticket - send him those angry e-mails! woooo | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 1231 Registered: 07-2007 |
I don't want to see MCS torn down but the idea that one of the richest persons in the state will get their property torn down for them on the public dollar is revolting. It's bad enough when it's done for Ilitch. KC Jr., this is a bad call. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 1232 Registered: 07-2007 |
He must not have heard what the President had to say: 'President Barack Obama rallied the people he is counting on to help turn around the economy and warned anew Thursday that he will not tolerate wasteful spending of his $787-billion economic stimulus package. "If we see money being misspent, we're going to put a stop to it," Obama told a gathering of state officials.' http://freep.com/article/20090 313/NEWS15/903130367 | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 1254 Registered: 11-2006 |
Terrible idea, I agree. I also let the mayor know my thoughts on the subject. Now lets see how Cockrel responds and what he specifically has for plans here. I am very surprised that Cockrel, the preservationist he has appeared to be in the past, would announce this use of money - especially after he has stated he wants the stimulus money used for immediate infrastructure upgrades, mass transit, and improving quality of life for the citizens here. | ||
Benfield Member Username: Benfield Post Number: 135 Registered: 06-2008 |
The demolition of the MCS seem inevitable. Regionally, there is a real estate surplus and the local preservationist community is politically impotent. Yes, yes you've all written many letters but tell me the last politician that won or lost an election because of preservationist activists? That said, there are far, far better uses stimulus money that to subsidize Centra and the Bridge Company. | ||
Homer Member Username: Homer Post Number: 411 Registered: 08-2004 |
Is KC jr. NUTS??? He has just lost my support and vote. Use our Obama Bucks to tear down Manny's Building? Give me a break. Has KC jr. got his hand down Manny's pants too? | ||
Dan Member Username: Dan Post Number: 453 Registered: 10-2003 |
WOW... Demolition does not equal stimulus. I am so sick of this mentality. | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 600 Registered: 07-2006 |
My letter to the Mayor: Mayor Cockrel, I was very disturbed to find out today that you have suggested using federal stimulus money to tear down Michigan Central Station. While Michigan Central Station's blight surely presents the city with a problem, demolition using stimulus money would be bad for Detroit for many reasons: - First, the station is owned by a private owner. Stimulus money should not be used to reward a landowner for allowing his building to fall into utter disrepair. Rather, the city should enforce its ordinances against the owner and make the owner bring the building up to code. Given that Mr. Maroun and his company undoubtedly seek numerous concessions as part of his plan to build a second span over the Detroit River, I would think that the city should have considerable leverage over him. In fact, I would suggest that you use your bully pulpit to extract concessions from him relating to renovating (or at the last securing) the station. - Second, the stimulus money would provide only short term relief. Demolishing the station would provide brief work to demolition crews, but many of these workers may not even live in the city. Moreover, demolishing a building does nothing to promote long term economic growth in this are of Michigan Avenue. This is hardly stimulus. - Third, Michigan Central Station is a significant architectural landmark. Michigan Central Station is one of a kind, and a fantastic example of the beaux art architecture of the early 20th century. Even in its blighted, dilapitated state, the station stands as one of the most beautiful buildings in Detroit, one that draws people from throughout the region, and even beyond the city. Future restoration would show the triumphant "return" of Detroit. In the 1960s, New York City lost one of the country's most beautiful landmarks when it destroyed the original Penn Station. This ignited the historical preservation movement, which saved New York's Grand Central Station. Please respect and embrace Detroit's heritage, instead of trying to destroy it. - Instead of spending money on demolition of a historically important structure, stimulus money should be used as part of a concerted plan that will set the stage for future growth. I would suggest the creation of a "stimulus corridor" running up and down Michigan Avenue, in the are roughly between Tiger Stadium and Michigan Central Station. A federal earmark may provide money for the renovation of Tiger Stadium. Other federal stimulus money may be used to improve the roads and transportion along Michigan Avenue, providing the infrastructure for future economic growth. Focusing the expenditure of money on this "stimulus corridor" will provide both short-term jobs and help provide long-term growth. This would seem to be a far more effective use of stimulus money than one that simply provides short-term growth. Thank you for your consideration. I would be happy to discuss these issues or lend any assistance I may. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 2492 Registered: 08-2007 |
http://www.wdetfm.org/detroitt oday/ the little symbol on the left hand side of the wdet page, indicates that the show is ready for consumption. I can't get it to work, but I've been having trouble with this Commodore64 for a couple of days now. I refilled the kerosene resevior and everything. oh well. | ||
Hunchentoot Member Username: Hunchentoot Post Number: 132 Registered: 03-2005 |
I think the best idea I've heard for large, difficult-to-renovate signature buildings (and smaller ones as well) is from a local architect who suggests that the resources in the state the go for demolition go instead to mothballing of buildings to a delineated standard in exchange for reduced taxes so that it becomes feasible for only the ground-floor to be used with the potential to renovate the rest later. And more specifically to MCS, I would put Manny Maroun infront of a judge who would string him up to dry, frankly. He really deserves to be forced to improve the city for real. Finally, the purpose of this building is subverted in discussions of the mechanics of events surrounding it. No matter that it's owned privately, the building is designed as a public monument, as the City's front door. In disrepair or no, it is our Parthenon, our Colosseum. Of all buildings, it is the one to let decay on its own if no plan is ever found for it, and it is the most deserving of being seized from private hands by eminent domain and spending public money to renovate, even if the upper floors are simply filled with windows and mothballed. | ||
Stosh Member Username: Stosh Post Number: 133 Registered: 01-2009 |
71.1 MB! No wonder,that takes forever to load. Or at least a few minutes at my I-net speed. Cockerel said that Detroit still doesn't know what they will get. 161 projects proposed at 3.3 billion submitted for Detroit. He's looking for at least a billion. Critical importance for him is demo of large industrial structures. But, he used the train station as an example of a large building that needs demo. I know it was on the wish list. Whether it's funded is a question. He also mentioned policing in a hope that some stimulus money could be used for that. Also transit as well. DPS asking for money as well. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1968 Registered: 12-2004 |
quote: Well, technically, it's 6 trains daily. 3 arrivals + 3 departutes. As gas prices continue to climb, however, that will ineviatbly increase. Amtrak saw a huge increase in its business when gas was at $4/gallon last summer. As oil prices climb, Amtrak's business will inevitably climb as well; eventually making more trains a neccisity. In addition, as we move more towards high-speed rail, the demand for rail service will also increase considerably. None of those condition are currently present, but they are coming. I should also point out that there currently isn't a viable option for the site even if it is demolished. That is important because once the building is gone, it's gone. In its current condition, MCS is eligible for a variety of state and federal tax credits that will subsidies a large portion of its redevelopment. The challenge, of course, is have a use that covers its operational expenses once the site is redeveloped. That does not exist in the current market and likely won't exist for at least another year or two. If we expend our resources now to demolish the property then not only have we lost a piece of our history, we've lost access to that source of funding as well. As a result, demolishing the MCS simply increases the probablity that the site will be nothing but weeds for a much longer period of time. Exhibit A in this argument is the vacant Hudson's site. Exhibit B is the vacant Statler site. Exhibit C is the Madison-Lenox site, which is currently a parking lot. Exhibit D is the Westin Book Cadillac Hotel, for which no economically viable use once existed. However, it didn't get demolished. As a result, we preserved the ability for future use of the building and leveraging of those financial opportunities. Exhibit E is the Fort Shelby Doubletree Hotel, again for which no economically viable use once existed. However, it didn't get demolished. As a result, we preserved the ability for future use of the building and leveraging of those financial opportunities. Demolishing a structurally sound, historic building is something that has never worked as an economic development tool in Detroit or any other city. To the contrary, mothballing historic buildings has almost always been our best bet. | ||
Cooper Member Username: Cooper Post Number: 63 Registered: 02-2008 |
Here's what he actually says word for word: "We have put a request in for funding for the demolition of large industrial structures and other large structures. That's a major problem in the city of Detroit, has been for years. Realistically the city does not have the money in its budget to demolish, for example, structures as big as the train station. So, we would actually like to get some federal dollars that we could utilize to do that." http://www.wdetfm.org/audio/de troittoday/639/DT_3-13.MP3 | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 601 Registered: 07-2006 |
If that's what he actually said, that is far from saying that he definitely wishes to use federal money to demolish MCS. Nonetheless, I think that it is worth it to create noise around the issue. Given that Maroun wants his bridge, I do not see why the city cannot get him to at least secure the building. They should have considerable leverage over him. | ||
Cooper Member Username: Cooper Post Number: 64 Registered: 02-2008 |
To make that clear, Cockrel said that the city has requested funds for the demolition of "large industrial structures" that are "as big as the train station." He did *not* say the city has requested funds to demolish the train station specifically. That said, the emphasis on demo is still misplaced, and the train station is obviously one potential target of demo money. Hopefully he'll clarify his remarks himself sometime soon. | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 602 Registered: 07-2006 |
I agree, Cooper. | ||
Wolverine Member Username: Wolverine Post Number: 617 Registered: 04-2004 |
How does demoing MCS help people. What benefit does this new empty lot offer to Detroiters. I swear, priorities are so messed up in Detroit. | ||
Stosh Member Username: Stosh Post Number: 134 Registered: 01-2009 |
They have requested money to tear it down. It's all on the Michigan.gov site in that massive PDF with all the other projects. | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 1309 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote:Which, if you think about it, is more or less what their original purpose was. There was always a lot of unused space on the upper floors of that station. There's no reason why the whole thing should have to be reused at once, or at all. | ||
Stosh Member Username: Stosh Post Number: 135 Registered: 01-2009 |
City of Detroit Detroit Train Station Demolition Demolish large vacant, blighted, dangerous building structure. 6/1/09 6/1/2010 $ 3,640,000 City of Detroit Detroit Packard Plant Demolition Large Industrial Factory Complex – Multiple Buildings 6/1/09 6/1/2010 $ 13,088,400 I suppose the larger question would be, what would be the cost of a rehab? | ||
Hunchentoot Member Username: Hunchentoot Post Number: 133 Registered: 03-2005 |
Options: A) Renovate the ground floor, mothball the rest. Put the station to public use for rail service. B) Leave the building alone and let it moulder. With the money that would otherwise be used for demolition, put up a nicer fence, light the exterior, and renovate the Roosevelt Park. It is our Colosseum. It is our Parthenon. C) Demolish the building. Discover that it eliminates any interest in this part of the neighborhood. Be left with a formal processional park leading up to a grassy patch of gravel. I move away. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 1194 Registered: 11-2003 |
Even though the 5 uppermost floors were never completely finished, they were used for storage. And all the office floors below the top 5 were fully utilized. The depot was the headquarters of the Michigan Central RR, and in later years the regional headquarters for New York Central, Penn Central and then Conrail. | ||
Bragaboutme Member Username: Bragaboutme Post Number: 628 Registered: 02-2008 |
Lets hear from Corktown residents!!!! I think that building shoud've come down a long time ago(not imploded). The base should be saved. The office space was never used. This building is choking the life out of Corktown, and standing in the way of progress. I think this is the best idea yet Cockrel has come up with. There are more posibilities with it gone then just letting it sit and rot. No renovation plan could be made for that building because of its size. the tracks themselves are still being used. I say there is enough land to put quality retail and other small businesses on that land to bring Corktown and Mexican town together. Every time I pass by that monstrosity I try to think of a use for it, but all I think of is how wrong it is for that area. You can trying to slam Cockrel all you want but It's truly an eye sore. Even if it was restored it would be a restored Eye sore. The plan to build the office tower was wrong from the start for that neighbor hood. tear it down all the way, or take the office tower part and keep the lobby floor and build from there. Either way it has got to come down. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 3453 Registered: 02-2007 |
They should use that money to hire ambassadors to solicit businesses in other cities and lure them to Detroit. Provide financial incentives. Which creates jobs, which generates tax revenue, which builds infrastructure. | ||
Hunchentoot Member Username: Hunchentoot Post Number: 134 Registered: 03-2005 |
Brag, are you a Corktown resident? Being near the train station was a significant factor in my choice of address because it's unique, mysterious, and beautiful. What REALLY needs to go is the Roosevelt Warehouse. If you live near MCS and feel it's such an eyesore, surely you could move half a mile away and not have to look at it every day? You could live near the new quality retail built into the ground-floors of the Opera House Parking Garage perhaps. | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 1310 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote:Problem is, you don't "put up" quality retail or small businesses. They have to come on their own, and so far they haven't. Having one more empty lot where someone could potentially start a business won't change that. Whatever the reasons for the lack of quality retail in the city, it's definitely not for want of weed-covered gravel lots. | ||
Hunchentoot Member Username: Hunchentoot Post Number: 135 Registered: 03-2005 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =v-y2I0TYxb0 | ||
401don Member Username: 401don Post Number: 948 Registered: 11-2007 |
I'm not sure I understand the logic in raising taxes until Matty defaults. If that happened and the city repo'd it, wouldn't it just be another cost to the city? It has no value. If Matty is paying his taxes, let him keep it. The city is in no position to take it over. However there is no reason it can't be secured with proper fencing. | ||
Barebain Member Username: Barebain Post Number: 33 Registered: 02-2006 |
Why not use the stimulus money to clean it out, fix the roof, lock the place down solid, and remove the acres of train yard behind the thing that all of the urban explorer/french photographer types never bother to notice? Maybe then the building can be mothballed for a future generation to use wisely. |
