 
Roq
Member
Username: Roq
Post Number: 41
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 11:01 pm: |    |
Quote: "its purely a "look at me, im a flaming liberal that cares" statement that accomplishes nothing but giving the liberal a sense of doing something.....
signed,
goose - possible d-bag.."
Wow, that's really telling people off [rolleyes].
What is so awful about doing something that makes a person feel good about themselves and helps the Earth at the same time? |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 1318
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 11:04 pm: | |
Anyone who's been out west and seen the night sky without the constant glow of wasteful nighttime lighting understands the value of turning off or shielding these lights. Too bad your kids and grandkids don't have a clue what the night sky really looks like because you're too busy showing the world that you don't care. |
Mind_field
Member
Username: Mind_field
Post Number: 499
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 11:20 pm: | |
"Why would someone turn every light on, on purpose?"
Because children don't know any better and they feel some sense of power or accomplishment in their defiant, ignorant actions. ME first! It's all about what I want!!!! |
Bcscott
Member
Username: Bcscott
Post Number: 143
Registered: 05-2008
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 5:48 am: | |
Instead of the night sky, we should be more concerned about the awe inspiring debt those kids and grandkids are being saddled with thanks to Obama. That's a lot more real than global warming. |
Cinderpath
Member
Username: Cinderpath
Post Number: 967
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 8:51 am: | |
-Sweet! I love the morons that filled up their vehicles with Arab and Chavez fuel, to really teach us a lesson by not participating and sending more money to terrorist and people that hate us.
The stupidity factor of some people is amazing......
(Message edited by Cinderpath on March 30, 2009) |
Pam
Member
Username: Pam
Post Number: 5151
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 9:45 am: | |
quote:awe inspiring debt those kids and grandkids are being saddled with thanks to Obama.
There was no debt under Bush? |
Goat
Member
Username: Goat
Post Number: 2857
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 11:41 am: | |
Ummm Detroit didn't participate. Also compare it to last year in the link provided.
http://community.livejournal.c om/windsor_visuals/89038.html |
Goose
Member
Username: Goose
Post Number: 114
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 11:47 am: | |
quote:
awe inspiring debt those kids and grandkids are being saddled with thanks to Obama.
There was no debt under Bush?
so that makes it ok to keep compounding it??? Obama supports have a keen way of justifying their savior's actions by saying "well Bush/the republicans did it too"
yes, Bush and the last 8 years were a joke, but why is it better if Obama does it??? (other than he cares more or there is more hope with his deficit spending???) |
Docmo
Member
Username: Docmo
Post Number: 358
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 11:51 am: | |
I will protest the stupidity that is the AGW religion any way I can. If all I can do is to turn on my lights during Earth Hour or send my opinion to legislators and these blogs, so be it.
I am so pissed that Al Gore and his extremists have apparently convinced the world we have to institute massive cap and tax policies to regulate a life giving molecule.
Next thing they'll be regulating will be water vapor which has a far greater effect on keeping our planet warm than CO2 ever will. Al will, no doubt, soon make a propaganda film telling the world we have to regulate our steam output! Turn off that hot shower----You are killing the planet!
As a scientist and a physician, I have never believed anything more strongly: CO2 is not a pollutant or a hazard to us in any form. Without CO2, all life on our planet ceases. CO2's effect as a greenhouse gas is limited. It is essential to all plant life. Enhancing CO2 enhances plant growth.
No one who questions AGW wants pollution. If a coal-fired power plant effectively removes the soot, sulfur dioxide, nitrogen dioxide and mercury with scrubbers. If the coal plant emits these pollutants, shut it down! I do not, however, give a rat's ass how much CO2 it emits.
CO2 is a trace gas which is essential for all life. I don't care if we burn every last lump of coal in the planet---CO2 will still be trace gas with no effect on our physiology and little effect on our climate.
Demonizing CO2 is idiotic. It, along with water and oxygen, is critical to all life on the planet. CO2 is not a pollutant!!!!!! Higher CO2 levels have been proven to increase plant growth. More plant growth = more food for the planet.
Why not worry about the 2 out of 3 people on our planet who do not have electricity? What about all these poor people who have difficulty heating their homes or do not have the electricity to run a well with indoor plumbing.
No, we can't let the Africans or Chinese build a coal power plant even though coal is the most abundant and cheapest fuel on the planet. No, we can't have that. Better to let them wallow in their poverty.
Warm is Good! Ice ages are bad! How the hell did the Canadian Ice sheet that extended to northern Indiana 13,000 years ago melt? What was it? The SUVs? The Coal Fired Power plants?
The climate changes without human input. Back in the 90's, I too believed in the AGW theory. It kind of made sense. The climate was warming and CO2 was increasing. Maybe there was a link, even causation.
The problem now is that the planet has stopped warming over the last 10 years, even though CO2 continues to increase. The scientists who put their careers on the line now must skew their data to convince us of their alleged catastrophe.
You should not buy their fear mongering. Did you go outside this winter? Did you see the snow in Malibu, Las Vegas and Dubai (1st time ever)? Did you put up with two of the harshest winters ever over the last two years? Did you see a massive re-freeze of arctic sea ice? Did you see Lake Superior completely frozen over for the second time this decade (historically, this happens only once every 20 years)?
This is the bullshit off the Earth Hour site:
"VOTE EARTH
YOUR LIGHT SWITCH IS YOUR VOTE
This year, Earth Hour has been transformed into the world’s first global election, between Earth and global warming."
That is why I turned on every light I have. I will protest this bullshit to my last dying, CO2 spewing breath.
Had the Earth Hour people equated their project with conservation or deceasing ambient light enough for all of us to really see the stars, I would have dimmed my own lights.
No, these idiots used it as forum for voting against global warming. They used it to hype the trumped up dangers. The used it to highlight the skewed data coming out of their AGW scientists. These same scientists who have placed their careers at the precipice by championing a model of CO2 caused AGW. Now, these scientists rely upon grant money to further "prove" their theory. Now, these scientists are desperate to avoid becoming the boy who cried wolf, so they scream even louder.
As much as they scream, they can't seem to get the climate to cooperate. It's been cooler, not hotter over the las 11 years and CO2 continues to rise. Their models sure never predicted this anomaly. That's alright. They will scream even louder about melting ice sheets, rising oceans and doomsday storm scentarios. No matter. People soak up this disaster and catastrophe stuff. It doesn't matter if it's not happening. They will just make it up. It keeps them employed. It keeps the grant money flowing. It has made Al Gore a phenomenally rich man who will rake in boatloads of cash and our taxes as we are forced into using his green companies. It is despicable.
Oh, and how does Al Gore become a multibillionaire? The government comes in and taxes us into the poorhouse. Cap and Tax will be a massive energy tax seen by every American. If you think the recent Consumers/DTE utility hikes are distressing, wait to you see what we pay when Obama/Pelosi/Waxman get through with us. Cap and Tax is stealing our money and wasting huge sums for what? To bury CO2 in the ground like it is toxic nuclear waste for Al's green companies. These idiots and our government are completely off their rockers! |
Dbest
Member
Username: Dbest
Post Number: 113
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 12:09 pm: | |
Here lies the problem; Al Gore is the total D-Bag! Guess whos mansion(floodlights), the trees(spotlights) lining his driveway and several rooms were spotted lit-up at this so called enviromental hour? Thats right the biggest fruad in "GREEN" = Al Gore! He even knows this is all a bunch of stupid bullshit. Let me know when Egypt, India, and China are on board. Until then stop trying to bang our economy worse by furthering this "green" agenda. BTW Where is all the news about alternative energy equipment manufactures being in heavy demand? Oh that's right our largest Wind Turbine manufacture is laying people off. This shit is our last concern. |
Pam
Member
Username: Pam
Post Number: 5152
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 12:10 pm: | |
quote:so that makes it ok to keep compounding it??? Obama supports have a keen way of justifying their savior's actions by saying "well Bush/the republicans did it too"
I'm questioning why the right is only worried about it now. Where was the outrage under Bush?
quote:yes, Bush and the last 8 years were a joke, but why is it better if Obama does it??? (other than he cares more or there is more hope with his deficit spending???)
Yes, spending on things that might help people/our country is better. |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 1325
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 12:18 pm: | |
"Did you put up with two of the harshest winters ever over the last two years? "
Two harshest winters ever? When did that happen? Did we have a lot of snow? Yes. Is that consistent with global warming? Yes. The reduced ice cover on Lake Michigan leads to more evaporation and all that moisture comes down on Michigan in the form of snow. |
Gazhekwe
Member
Username: Gazhekwe
Post Number: 3025
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 12:23 pm: | |
I remember lots harsher winters back in the 60s and 70s. 81-82 was no slouch either. |
Noggin
Member
Username: Noggin
Post Number: 92
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 12:29 pm: | |
"Why would someone turn every light on, on purpose?"
People do it every year at x-mas. |
Wally
Member
Username: Wally
Post Number: 615
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 12:52 pm: | |
quote:"Did you put up with two of the harshest winters ever over the last two years? "
Two harshest winters ever? When did that happen? Did we have a lot of snow? Yes. Is that consistent with global warming? Yes. The reduced ice cover on Lake Michigan leads to more evaporation and all that moisture comes down on Michigan in the form of snow. The only reason we could ever get as much snow as this past winter is if Lake Michigan has less ice cover than usual? Regardless, it was a very cold and long winter which can also be classified as "harsh." |
Wally
Member
Username: Wally
Post Number: 616
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 12:55 pm: | |
I'll turn my lights off to see the stars better, but to do so to act like I agree with the Global Warming hysteria? I don't think so. I conserve energy every day regardless of some political agenda. |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 1326
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 12:57 pm: | |
"The only reason we could ever get as much snow as this past winter is if Lake Michigan has less ice cover than usual?"
It's not the only reason but it's a scientific reason. As for coldest winter, it's not even in the top 10. |
Rid0617
Member
Username: Rid0617
Post Number: 425
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 1:03 pm: | |
As for why I turned every light on? To make sure people knew I did not buy into this BS. Why do I drive 2 gas guzzling cars? Ones is a 1989 Lincoln Town car with 101,000 miles, the other is a 1989 Ford Crown Victoria with 65,100 miles. Both are paid for and better made than the garbage out there now on new car lots. |
Mikeg
Member
Username: Mikeg
Post Number: 2310
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 1:13 pm: | |
From the Windsor Visuals blog:
quote:Caesars turned off their giant LED signs, for the first time since the rebranding,
Actually, Caesars needed the "hydro juice" to power the lights and amps for the performance by the musical group Chicago that was going on inside their theater during the second half of "Earth Hour".
Ceasars did something externally visible to make it look like they cared about the "Earth Hour" promotion. Good PR, it got them a mention and photo in a local blog and maybe it made some people feel good - but did it make a difference? |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 1328
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 1:48 pm: | |
"As for why I turned every light on? To make sure people knew I did not buy into this BS."
You showed them! I heard people who believe in global warming also believe in universal health care. Stop going to your doctor and dentist to show everyone that you don't buy into that BS. |
Goose
Member
Username: Goose
Post Number: 115
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 3:48 pm: | |
"As for why I turned every light on? To make sure people knew I did not buy into this BS."
You showed them!
and everyone that turned off their lights really showed the light turner on-ers!!!!
i heard because of this demonstration, places like india and china are immediately enacting strict environmental laws...... |
Blitz
Member
Username: Blitz
Post Number: 101
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 4:35 pm: | |
The arguments that people use who are against global warming never hold any weight. The cold, harsh winters around here the last couple of years are irrelevant. They were a result of an intense La Nina and normal variations in the North Atlantic Oscillation - both of these are short-term phenomena that are not linked at all to long-term climate changes.
Global warming means that the average temperature of the entire Earth will warm over an extended period of time. This means there will still be ups and downs in the temperature trend but the overall average continues to rise (it does not rise as a smooth curve).
I have a Masters degree in climatology and have spent years studying this field - it's very complex and there are always new things to learn. For the anti-global warming crowd, how much education do you even have in climate science? |
Goose
Member
Username: Goose
Post Number: 116
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 5:06 pm: | |
Blitz, i may or may not agree with the fact that perhaps over a long period of time the earth temperatures have shown an increase, for the sake of arguement, lets say you are correct
so that being fact, to jump to the conclusion that humans are somehow causing this natural cycle or phenomenon by the use of scare tactics, or to assume that somehow humans can reverse this through trivial actions like turning off their lights is rediculous....
the facts may be that the earth is warming, just as it had in the past through many many other heating and warming cycles.... |
Gazhekwe
Member
Username: Gazhekwe
Post Number: 3026
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 5:10 pm: | |
Er, does it MATTER what is causing it? It will have long reaching effects, some of which are happening already. We need to stop fighting about whose fault it is and start working to ameliorate where we can, and get ready for the effects which will happen. Rising sea levels, loss of ice cover, land subsidance over melting permafrost, and more. |
Docmo
Member
Username: Docmo
Post Number: 359
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 5:17 pm: | |
Wally,
It was -22 F in Flint twice this year and -16 in Detroit. Maine and Illinois set their all time low temperatures on Jan 15/16 this year. -48 in Illinois and -50 in Maine. It has never, ever been colder in those two states! 2008 was the snowiest calendar year ever in Detroit!
YES. THAT IS HARSH!!!!!!! |
Gazhekwe
Member
Username: Gazhekwe
Post Number: 3027
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 5:24 pm: | |
It most certainly has been colder that that. Check the climate records. It doesn't happen a lot here in the banana belt of Michigan, but it has been 50 below in our fair state. |
Mikeg
Member
Username: Mikeg
Post Number: 2311
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 5:49 pm: | |
So much for the scientific method. Skeptics of the man-made global warming theory are expected to read an Internet article about a consensus or even a survey of scientists or better yet, take it on faith from an anonymous poster with a Masters degree in climatology.
I find it highly amusing to read a supposedly highly-educated person attempt to address his skeptics by deriding their lack of education in his field. The burden of proof is on the climate scientist to prove that their scientific theory is true. Instead of sneering at us uneducated skeptics, maybe you could point to all of the peer-reviewed publications of studies that have tested the "global warming" hypothesis, and all of those other climate scientists who have been able to replicate them? Data correlation and computer models alone are insufficient to validate a hypothesis involving an huge, open system like our earth's atmosphere. |
Docmo
Member
Username: Docmo
Post Number: 360
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 5:58 pm: | |
Novine,
2009 had the widest/thickest ice cover on the Great Lakes in decades. We freeze our asses off and it is all consistent with global warming. Sure it is!
Where is your model that predicted the flat temperatures over the last decade, Blitz?
Show me!
You're right, the climate is incredibly complex and you and the IPCC just come up with a simple (inaccurate) model and now the entire world must dramatically alter our global energy use.
Tax the hell out of the end users---that's you and me. Never give Africa or poor regions in Asia a chance to benefit from the use of the planet's abundant energy (coal & natural gas) sources.
34,000 Scientists have signed the statement below. That's a helluva lot of scientists who seriously question the AGW religion:
"There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gasses is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate. Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth."
Too bad the climate didn't cooperate with the crap IPCC model. Too bad your crap IPCC model will cost us billions in energy taxes and lost efficiency.
It sucks for Michigan. Talk about killing what little economy we have left. Please don't give me Jennifer's pipe dream that we will all be making windmills in the future either.
For those who wish to read further on the science surrounding AGW skepticism, please see Anthony Watts excellent blog. It is highly informative and incredibly thorough. The link below has some recent posts with a phenomenal satellite photo of a completely frozen Lake Superior. With the exception of a small area of southern Lake Michigan and portions of Lake Ontario, the entire Great Lakes were frozen over earlier this month. Very rare indeed.
I know. I know. It's all consistent with global warming.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/?s= lake+superior |
Irish_mafia
Member
Username: Irish_mafia
Post Number: 1264
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 6:04 pm: | |
I had to dust the global warming off my car this morning |
Gazhekwe
Member
Username: Gazhekwe
Post Number: 3028
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 6:23 pm: | |
We all need to look beyond the microcosm of Southeastern Michigan. The melting of the glaciers of Greenland and Iceland and and the ice in the Arctic and Antarctic have begun to raise sea levels. Assuming arguendo that this is a natural cyclical phenomenon, it still shows a general warming trend that will cause consequences that we must stop squabbling and deal with. |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 1330
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 6:32 pm: | |
I'm sorry, I missed your link where you showed that Lake Michigan was frozen over this year. Perhaps because it didn't happen.
"Ice cover on the Great Lakes has declined more than 30 percent since the 1970s, leaving the world's largest system of freshwater lakes open to evaporation and lower water levels, according to scientists associated with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration."
"Their studies show that although the amount of ice cover can vary substantially from year to year, the overall coverage on the world's largest system of freshwater lakes is diminishing, especially in the deepest, middle portions of Erie, Huron, Michigan, Ontario and Superior."
"Evaporation from open water can cause heavy lake-effect snow inland."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0 ,2933,510237,00.html
It's from Fox so it must be fair and balanced. |
Rid0617
Member
Username: Rid0617
Post Number: 426
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 6:54 pm: | |
Here is why I do not buy it is man made. Thank God the earth does warm during periods or we would all be driving to work on our snow mobiles because the country would be covered in something known as the ice age. Even the founder of the weather channel has said it's BS
I still have a copy of Newsweek from 1975. This issue did a big special feature about the rise of hurricanes, tornadoes, droughts in some parts of the country, floods in others (same excuses used now a days) was caused by global COOLING.
This article continued to say if something wasn't done immediately life as we know it would be gone. They were wrong then, they are wrong now.
And besides, if the hot temperatures are man made why are some record high temps set in the late 1800s. What was man doing then to cause global warming?
NBC/CNBC/MSNBC and others in this family make it a point to have green week about every 4 months. NBC recently bought the weather channel to help spread the fear through a weather source. What they fail to mention is GE is the parent company that stands to make a lot of money from wind power. |
Gazhekwe
Member
Username: Gazhekwe
Post Number: 3029
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 7:28 pm: | |
So, Rid, if we can stop squabbling about WHY it is happening, can we work on dealing with the consequences of it?
We noticed as far back as the 60s, every time we had a colder than usual winter, the media would pull out the New Ice Age articles. I think science has had advances since then, and the melting of all the age old glaciers, ice caps and permafrost does lend some serious credence to the idea of rising sea levels. These two factors by themselves will trigger significant climate change. So, can we stop fighting and work on the changes we need to make to prevent widespread damage to our infrastructures and economy? |
Goose
Member
Username: Goose
Post Number: 117
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 7:28 pm: | |
http://www.denisdutton.com/coo ling_world.htm
this is the article about global cooling from 1975, just think what might have happened had we followed the fanatics recoomendations on trying to WARM up the planet, and trying to melt the polar ice caps!!!
the sky is falling, the sky is falling |
Docmo
Member
Username: Docmo
Post Number: 362
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 7:41 pm: | |
I never said Lake Michigan completely froze over. Only 50% of it froze. All of Lake Superior, Lake Huron and Lake Erie froze. Only Lake Ontario had less than 50% ice cover.
Cry as you may. It was still freaking cold here this winter. Global temperatures have not risen one iota over the last decade. Global sea ice is the same as it was in 1970. How much did sea level rise over the entire 20th century? 18 cm which is 7 inches. Holy shit, that's going to flood all of Manhattan and we will all be doomed, won't it.
|
Optima
Member
Username: Optima
Post Number: 69
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 7:59 pm: | |
Very interesting thread. I will only add a quote from John Naisbitt (author of the Megatrends series) regarding the alleged global warming/global cooling/climate change phenom:
"A consensus and an agenda do not equal science." |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 1331
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 8:56 pm: | |
"Global sea ice is the same as it was in 1970."
Thanks George Will. But that claim has been debunked:
http://www.desmogblog.com/arct ic-sea-ice-melting-no-matter-h ow-bad-george-will-doesnt-want -it
"How much did sea level rise over the entire 20th century? 18 cm which is 7 inches. Holy shit, that's going to flood all of Manhattan and we will all be doomed, won't it."
If you live in low-lying areas around the world like Bangladesh or the Seychelles Islands, yes, you will be flooded out of your homes. But I knwo you can't be bothered to be inconvenienced.
http://www.irinnews.org/Report .aspx?ReportId=75874 |
Docmo
Member
Username: Docmo
Post Number: 363
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 9:23 pm: | |
Novine,
Actually George Will's claim is correct. It only matters on what date you pick and whether the satellite monitors are working. Of course, your citation does not include the faulty satellite monitor. George Will very effectively debunks your false claim:
As for the anonymous scientists’ unspecified claims about the column’s supposedly myriad inaccuracies: The column contained many factual assertions but only one has been challenged. The challenge is mistaken.
"Citing data from the University of Illinois’ Arctic Climate Research Center, as interpreted on Jan. 1 by Daily Tech, a technology and science news blog, the column said that since September “the increase in sea ice has been the fastest change, either up or down, since 1979, when satellite record-keeping began.” According to the center, global sea ice levels at the end of 2008 were “near or slightly lower than” those of 1979. The center generally does not make its statistics available, but in a Jan. 12 statement the center confirmed that global sea ice levels were within a difference of less than 3 percent of the 1980 level.
On Feb. 18 the U.S. National Snow and Ice Data Center reported that from early January until the middle of this month, a defective performance by satellite monitors that measure sea ice caused an underestimation of the extent of Arctic sea ice by 193,000 square miles, which is approximately the size of California. The Times (”All the news that’s fit to print”), which as of this writing had not printed that story, should unleash Revkin and his unnamed experts.
All I can say to sea level rising 7 inches in 100 years is ADAPT. It sure as hell is not the catastrophe being crammed down our throats. The Earth has been generally warming for the last 20,000 years when massive ice sheets covered most of Europe and North America.
Be very thankful we live in a period of global warmth. Global cooling really sucks. |
Goose
Member
Username: Goose
Post Number: 118
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 9:27 pm: | |
Quote
"If you live in low-lying areas around the world like Bangladesh or the Seychelles Islands, yes, you will be flooded out of your homes. But I knwo you can't be bothered to be inconvenienced."
Again, even if you believe the hype of global warming, and maybe facts point to a rise in temperatures, one has to be very naive to think that humans have a role in these cyclical climatologic occurances, or that humans have any control over the future of these happenings... the best one may do to beat flooding in low lying areas due to natural cyclical climate change is to move....
someday, and someday soon, there will be an earthquake (fact) that at most knocks california into the pacific ocean, at minimal causes major devastation to homes, buildings, infrastructure along the california coast - i suggest that all cities and people from LA up to SF be relocated.....
we should also start preparing for the inevitable asteroid that will pummel the earth soon..... as evidenced by hollywood this is something we can avoid...... |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 1332
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 11:48 pm: | |
Docmo, if you're going to parrot Will's claims, you should check first to see if they've been debunked. They have. Again.
"In his column defending his climate claims, Mr. Will says a flaw reported in sea-ice data at the National Snow and Ice Data Center in Boulder, Colo., justifies his statements about the Illinois group’s ice trends. Both Mr. Chapman in Illinois and Mark Serreze of the Boulder center reject this. Here’s Dr. Serreze’s view of the incident and that particular assertion:
Regarding the sensor problem, see our latest post where we discuss the issue in detail. The sensor problem on the F15 has no bearing on the Univ. IL numbers, which are based on the earlier F13 satellite (which we have temporarily gone back to). I got a call from George Will’s fact checker regarding his latest piece. I was a bit terse with the gentleman but of course gave him the info he was looking for. My response was something like “Well, I certainly would not want Mr. Will to be speaking from a viewpoint of ignorance.”
Regarding the “global ice at 1980 levels”, here is the canned response we wrote in rebuttal to the astonishingly twisted piece in Daily Tech: What the graph shows is that the global sea ice area for early January 2009 is on the long term average (zero anomaly). The author tries to read some relevance into the fact that the anomaly at the end of 1979 is also about zero. Given that there are many periods throughout the time series with a zero anomaly for the global total, it is puzzling why the end of 1979 was singled out.
Presumably the point is to somehow cast doubt on global warming. However, if so, the author could have instead made an equally silly case for global cooling by contrasting the near zero anomaly of early January 2009 with the strong negative anomalies characterizing the later part of 2008.
The key point is that looking at the global total area is not relevant. All climate models tell us that it is the Arctic sea ice cover that declines first, and that Antarctic ice extent falls only later, and may even (as observed) temporarily increase in response to changing patterns of atmospheric circulation. In other words, events are unfolding pretty much as expected. Finally, the statement that there was “substantial recovery” this year in the Arctic is simply rubbish. Ice extent at the end of the melt season in the Arctic was second lowest on record and ice extent is still (as of early January) well below normal.
Simply put, this article is a masterpiece of cherry picking, misinterpretation and misrepresentation.
Also, I worked very closely with a woman from Slate Magazine, who wrote a pretty decent piece on the issue: http://www.slate.com/id/221083 3/
Serreze"
http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes. com/2009/02/27/expers-big-flaw -in-wills-ice-assertions/?hp |
Docmo
Member
Username: Docmo
Post Number: 364
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 5:51 pm: | |
With all due respect Mr. Novine, that is not true.
Global sea ice on Jan 1, 2009 was the same as Jan 1, 1980. Plain and simple.
Your argument is that Arctic sea ice is predicted by the models to decline first. Well, that's a great argument. That would be the same models that predicted continued catastrophic warming for last 10 years. That obviously didn't happen.
Let's actually look at a graph of global sea ice. Please show me your catastrophic melting. Global sea ice has not changed over the past 30 years!!!
BTW, what happens to sea level if all of Earth's sea ice melts? Answer: Nothing!
Check it out yourself. Take a glass of ice and add water. Mark the water line. Come back an hour later and check the water line after all the ice has melted. The water line has not moved. Simple 4th grade science. Even the AGW scientists might get that experiment right.
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East_detroit
Member
Username: East_detroit
Post Number: 2091
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 7:27 pm: | |
Actually, the simple science is that ice going to water would actually LOSE volume, not stay the same.
However, you are discounting ice that is above the water level or not in the water, including glaciers and the like. |
Docmo
Member
Username: Docmo
Post Number: 365
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 11:06 pm: | |
With all due respect
Mr.President,that is not true.
"Few challenges facing America and
the world are more urgent than combating
climate change.The science is beyond
dispute and the facts are clear."
— PRESIDENT-ELECT BARACK OBAMA, NOVEMBER 19, 2008
We, the undersigned scientists, maintain that the case for alarm regarding climate change is grossly overstated. Surface temperature changes over the past century have been episodic and modest and there has been no net global warming for over a decade now.1,2
After controlling for population growth and property values, there has been no increase in damages from severe weather-related events.3 The computer models forecasting rapid temperature change abjectly fail to explain recent climate behavior.4 Mr. President, your characterization of the scientific facts regarding climate change and the degree of certainty informing the scientific debate is simply incorrect.
SYUN AKUSOFU, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF ALASKA
ARTHUR G.ANDERSON, PH.D
DIRECTOR OF RESEARCH, IBM (RETIRED)
CHARLES R.ANDERSON, PH.D
ANDERSON MATERIALS EVALUATION
J. SCOTT ARMSTRONG, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA
ROBERT ASHWORTH
CLEARSTACK LLC
ISMAIL BAHT, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF KASHMIR
COLIN BARTON
CSIRO (RETIRED)
DAVID J. BELLAMY, OBE
THE BRITISH NATURAL ASSOCIATION
JOHN BLAYLOCK
LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL
LABORATORY (RETIRED)
EDWARD F. BLICK, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF OKLAHOMA (EMERITUS)
SONJA BOEHMER-CHRISTIANSEN, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF HULL
BOB BRECK
AMS BROADCASTER OF THEYEAR 2008
JOHN BRIGNELL
UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHAMPTON (EMERITUS)
MARK CAMPBELL, PH.D
U.S. NAVAL ACADEMY
ROBERT M. CARTER, PH.D
JAMES COOK UNIVERSITY
IAN CLARK, PH.D
PROFESSOR, EARTH SCIENCES
UNIVERSITY OF OTTAWA, OTTAWA, CANADA
ROGER COHEN, PH.D
FELLOW,AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY
PAUL COPPER, PH.D
LAURENTIAN UNIVERSITY (EMERITUS)
PIERS CORBYN,MS
WEATHER ACTION
RICHARD S. COURTNEY, PH.D
REVIEWER, INTERGOVERNMENTAL
PANEL ON CLIMATE CHANGE
UBERTO CRESCENTI, PH.D
PAST-PRESIDENT, ITALIAN GEOLOGICAL SOCIETY
SUSAN CROCKFORD, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OFVICTORIA
JOSEPH S. D’ALEO
FELLOW,AMERICAN METEOROLOGICAL SOCIETY
JAMES DEMEO PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS (RETIRED)
DAVID DEMING, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF OKLAHOMA
DIANE DOUGLAS, PH.D
PALEOCLIMATOLOGIST
DAVID DOUGLASS, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER
ROBERT H. ESSENHIGH
E.G. BAILEY EMERITUS
PROFESSOR OF ENERGY CONVERSION
THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY
CHRISTOPHER ESSEX, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OFWESTERN ONTARIO
JOHN FERGUSON, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF NEWCASTLE
UPON TYNE (RETIRED)
EDUARDO FERREYRA
ARGENTINIAN FOUNDATION FOR
A SCIENTIFIC ECOLOGY
MICHAEL FOX, PH.D
AMERICAN NUCLEAR SOCIETY
GORDON FULKS, PH.D
GORDON FULKS AND ASSOCIATES
LEE GERHARD, PH.D
STATE GEOLOGIST, KANSAS (RETIRED)
GERHARD GERLICH, PH.D
TECHNISCHE UNIVERSITAT BRAUNSCHWEIG
IVAR GIAEVER, PH.D
NOBEL LAUREATE, PHYSICS
ALBRECHT GLATZLE, PH.D
SCIENTIFIC DIRECTOR, INTTAS
(PARAGUAY)
WAYNE GOODFELLOW, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF OTTAWA
JAMES GOODRIDGE
CALIFORNIA STATE CLIMATOLOGIST (RETIRED)
LAURENCE GOULD, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF HARTFORD
VINCENT GRAY, PH.D
NEW ZEALAND CLIMATE COALITION
WILLIAM M. GRAY, PH.D
COLORADO STATE UNIVERSITY
KENNETH E. GREEN, D.ENV.
AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE
KESTEN GREEN, PH.D
MONASH UNIVERSITY
WILL HAPPER, PH.D
PRINCETON UNIVERSITY
HOWARD C. HAYDEN, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF CONNECTICUT (EMERITUS)
BEN HERMAN, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA (EMERITUS)
MARTIN HERTZBERG, PH.D.
U.S. NAVY (RETIRED)
DOUG HOFFMAN, PH.D
AUTHOR, THE RESILIENT EARTH
BERND HUETTNER, PH.D
OLE HUMLUM, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF OSLO
A. NEIL HUTTON
PAST PRESIDENT, CANADIAN SOCIETY
OF PETROLEUM GEOLOGISTS
CRAIG D. IDSO, PH.D
CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF CARBON DIOXIDE
AND GLOBAL CHANGE
SHERWOOD B. IDSO, PH.D
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE (RETIRED)
KIMINORI ITOH, PH.D
YOKOHAMA NATIONAL UNIVERSITY
STEVE JAPAR, PH.D
REVIEWER, INTERGOVERNMENTAL
PANEL ON CLIMATE CHANGE
STEN KAIJSER, PH.D
UPPSALA UNIVERSITY (EMERITUS)
WIBJORN KARLEN, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF STOCKHOLM (EMERITUS)
JOEL KAUFFMAN, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF THE SCIENCES,
PHILADELPHIA (EMERITUS)
DAVID KEAR, PH.D
FORMER DIRECTOR-GENERAL,
NZ DEPT. SCIENTIFIC AND
INDUSTRIAL RESEARCH
RICHARD KEEN, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO
DR. KELVIN KEMM, PH.D
LIFETIME ACHIEVERS AWARD,
NATIONAL SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
FORUM, SOUTH AFRICA
MADHAV KHANDEKAR, PH.D
FORMER EDITOR, CLIMATE RESEARCH
ROBERT S. KNOX, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER (EMERITUS)
JAMES P. KOERMER, PH.D
PLYMOUTH STATE UNIVERSITY
GERHARD KRAMM, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF ALASKA FAIRBANKS
WAYNE KRAUS, PH.D
KRAUS CONSULTING
OLAV M. KVALHEIM, PH.D
UNIV. OF BERGEN
ROAR LARSON, PH.D
NORWEGIAN UNIVERSITY OF SCIENCE
AND TECHNOLOGY
JAMES F. LEA, PH.D
DOUGLAS LEAHY, PH.D
METEOROLOGIST
PETER R. LEAVITT
CERTIFIED CONSULTING METEOROLOGIST
DAVID R. LEGATES, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF DELAWARE
RICHARD S. LINDZEN, PH.D
MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE
OF TECHNOLOGY
HARRY F. LINS, PH.D.
CO-CHAIR, IPCC HYDROLOGY AND
WATER RESOURCESWORKING GROUP
ANTHONY R. LUPO, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI
HOWARD MACCABEE, PH.D,MD
CLINICAL FACULTY, STANFORD MEDICAL SCHOOL
HORST MALBERG, PH.D
FREE UNIVERSITY OF BERLIN
BJORN MALMGREN, PH.D
GOTEBURG UNIVERSITY (EMERITUS)
JENNIFER MAROHASY, PH.D
AUSTRALIAN ENVIRONMENT FOUNDATION
JAMES A MARUSEK
U.S. NAVY (RETIRED)
ROSS MCKITRICK, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF GUELPH
PATRICK J.MICHAELS, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OFVIRGINIA
TIMMOTHY R.MINNICH,MS
MINNICH AND SCOTTO, INC.
ASMUNN MOENE, PH.D
FORMER HEAD, FORECASTING
CENTER,METEOROLOGICAL
INSTITUTE, NORWAY
MICHAEL MONCE, PH.D
CONNECTICUT COLLEGE
DICK MORGAN, PH.D
EXETER UNIVERSITY (EMERITUS)
NILS-AXEL MÖRNER, PH.D
STOCKHOLM UNIVERSITY (EMERITUS)
DAVID NOWELL, D.I.C.
FORMER CHAIRMAN, NATO
METEOROLOGY CANADA
CLIFF OLLIER, D.SC.
UNIVERSITY OFWESTERN AUSTRALIA
GARTH W. PALTRIDGE, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF TASMANIA
ALFRED PECKAREK, PH.D
ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY
DR. ROBERT A. PERKINS, P.E.
UNIVERSITY OF ALASKA
IAN PILMER, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF MELBOURNE (EMERITUS)
BRIAN R. PRATT, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF SASKATCHEWAN
JOHN REINHARD, PH.D
ORE PHARMACEUTICALS
PETER RIDD, PH.D
JAMES COOK UNIVERSITY
CURT ROSE, PH.D
BISHOP’S UNIVERSITY (EMERITUS)
PETER SALONIUS M.SC.
CANADIAN FOREST SERVICE
GARY SHARP, PH.D
CENTER FOR CLIMATE/OCEAN
RESOURCES STUDY
THOMAS P. SHEAHAN, PH.D
WESTERN TECHNOLOGIES, INC.
ALAN SIMMONS
AUTHOR, THE RESILIENT EARTH
ROY N. SPENCER, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA—HUNTSVILLE
ARLIN SUPER, PH.D
RETIRED RESEARCH
METEOROLOGIST, U.S. DEPT.
OF RECLAMATION
GEORGE H.TAYLOR,MS
APPLIED CLIMATE SERVICES
EDUARDO P. TONNI, PH.D
MUSEO DE LA PLATA (ARGENTINA)
RALF D.TSCHEUSCHNER, PH.D
DR.ANTON URIARTE, PH.D
UNIVERSIDAD DEL PAISVASCO
BRIANVALENTINE, PH.D
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY
GOSTAWALIN, PH.D
UNIVERSITY OF GOTHENBURG (EMERITUS)
GERD-RAINERWEBER, PH.D
REVIEWER, INTERGOVERNMENAL
PANEL ON CLIMATE CHANGE
FORESE-CARLOWEZEL, PH.D
URBINO UNIVERSITY
EDWARD T.WIMBERLEY, PH.D
FLORIDA GULF COAST UNIVERSITY
MIKLOS ZAGONI, PH.D
REVIEWER, INTERGOVERNMENTAL PANEL
ON CLIMATE CHANGE
ANTONIO ZICHICHI, PH.D
PRESIDENT,WORLD FEDERATION OF SCIENTISTS
1. Swanson, K.L., and A. A. Tsonis. Geophysical Research Letters, in press: DOI:10.1029/2008GL037022.
2. Brohan, P., et al. Journal of Geophysical Research, 2006: DOI: 10.1029/2005JD006548. Updates at http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/d ata/temperature.
3. Pielke, R. A. Jr., et al. Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society, 2005: DOI: 10.1175/BAMS-86-10-1481.
4. Douglass, D. H., et al. International Journal of Climatology, 2007: DOI: 10.1002/joc.1651. |
Ongowwah
Member
Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 394
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 01, 2009 - 9:47 am: | |
My polar opposite (pun intended) night went well. I made sure every light and electric device was running full tilt! I even had a few batteries to toss into the trash can! Ahhhh, the satisfaction of doing my bit to combat the "global" anything hysteria! |
Bearinabox
Member
Username: Bearinabox
Post Number: 1370
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 01, 2009 - 10:18 am: | |
Nobody cares, Wah, but thanks for playing. |
East_detroit
Member
Username: East_detroit
Post Number: 2097
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 01, 2009 - 11:09 am: | |
The Earth is flat as far as anyone can see and anyone who disagrees is a heretic. |
Ongowwah
Member
Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 395
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 01, 2009 - 12:36 pm: | |
unBearableinabox; Nobody cares, Wah, but thanks for playing.
Where's your proof? back up your comment with facts. Or show me where you're listed as official spokeswoman of this forum. Proof please. |
Bearinabox
Member
Username: Bearinabox
Post Number: 1373
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 01, 2009 - 12:58 pm: | |
Spokeswoman? What a childish insult.
Post something worth reading and maybe people will care about it. Why would anyone, other than the fine folks at Detroit Edison whose next vacation you just helped fund, be interested in reading how much energy you wasted last night? |
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