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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2840
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 12:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trapped!



From Firehouse Magazine, June 1987

by Harvey Eisner

quote:

In the worst disaster to strike the Detroit Fire Department since 1917 when five firefighters were killed in a building collapse, three firefighters were killed and 10 were injured in two separate incidents while fighting a five-alarm fire on March 12, 1987.

Originally settled in 1701, Detroit suffered its first devastating fire on June 11, 1805, when the entire village consisting of 200 wooden buildings burned to the ground. The seal and motto of Detroit are based on the fire that wiped out the frontier village in 1805. Adopted in 1829, “Speramus Meliora” (We hope for better things) and “Resurget Cinerbus” (It shall rise again from the ashes) still seem appropriate, even 158 years later.

On Thursday, March 12, an alarm was received at the Detroit Central Fire Alarm office. Box 382 was transmitted for a reported fire in a warehouse at the Jeffries Expressway service drive and Hancock Avenue. Engines 10, 34 and 5, Ladder 9 and Squad 4, under the command of acting Fifth Battalion Chief Pat Adams, responded.

The usual first-due Engine 31 was out of service. The firehouse of Ladder 9 and the department training academy, however, are located across the street from the rear of the fire building, and permitted quick response.

Located at 4584 Jeffries Expressway service drive, the fire building (a former warehouse for the Motor City Wiping Cloth Company) was four stories high and consisted of heavy timber construction. The first floor was situated half below the street and half above. Shaped like an L, the building measured almost 200 feet along the service drive. The long portion of the building ran from the service drive through to the next block and measured nearly 400 feet.

Vacant for the past four years and loaded with piles and bales of rags, the building was a haven for vagrants. The premises had been protected by an automatic sprinkler system but it had been vandalized and was out of service. Apparently, the deed for the building was held by the State of Michigan because the owner was delinquent with taxes.

There had been several other fires the vacant building. At least one fire occurred there on November 10, 1986, and another one on February 5, during which several firefighters narrowly escaped injury. After these fires, several fire units toured the building for familiarization.

The vacant building was ordered demolished by the city council sometime during December 1986. On Monday, March 9, the city awarded a $324,000 demolition contract with work to begin within 10 days after it was signed.

Squad 4 responded with an officer and three firefighters, arriving behind Ladder 9. “We got a good view of the warehouse when we came across the expressway and there was nothing showing at that point,” states Lieutenant Robert English. Continues he: “As we came down the service drive, we still couldn’t see anything. We got to the alley that separates the vacant warehouse and Continental Paper Company and I left the rig. I saw a little smoke coming out the top-floor window.”

English radioed that Squad 4 was on the scene and would check further because light smoke was showing on the top floor. The front door had to be forced. Recalls English: “It was the only door in the building that was secured. Every other door was open. We’ve been in the building several times before.”

Firefighters went in the main entrance and turned right. They could not locate any stairs, but did observe a lot of rubbish on the floor. There wasn’t any fire on the first floor. Says English: “We went to the north end of the building and found a narrow stairway. We climbed the stairs to the top floor and noticed two or three bales of rags (eight feet high and five feet in diameter) at the top of the stairs. We had to walk to the right around the bales that weighed approximately 2000 pounds.

“Walking across the top floor, we could see fire nearly two-thirds of the way down this large, 200- by 30-foot room. The first fire was approximately 10 to 12 feet in circumference.” Adds English: “Lieutenant Paul Schimeck of first-due Engine 10 reached the doorway into another room that was large enough to allow the passage of forklifts. He reported he could see two to four bales burning in the room and another fire in a small room.”

Continues English: “Lieutenant Schimeck hollered, ‘We’ll need the inch-and-a-half.’ They knew they would have to break the bales open and use a lot of water.” English radioed to the chief there were three separate rubbish fires requiring a 1½-inch hose-line and requested he hold all companies until the fire was controlled.

Firefighter Bob Latka of Squad 4 was lowering a rope out the window to haul the hose-line and wye gate upstairs to the fourth floor. “We all had masks with us but we didn’t have them on because it was clear. There was very little smoke,” says Latka.

Fire equipment operator of Engine 10, Joe Zyla, had repositioned his rig past the window where the rope was being lowered. Two hundred feet of 1½-inch line and a wye gate supplied by 2½-inch hose were tied up in the rope dropped by Latka. When Zyla and another firefighter finished tying the rope, the firefighter started upstairs and Zyla headed for a hydrant.

Recalls English: “We were dragging the line up when we heard a whoom, whoosh.” Adds Latka: “The 2½-inch supply-line, the wye gate and the 200 feet of 1½-inch line were all in one knot and we were trying to bring it up at the same time.” Zyla was surprised that so much hose was requested. Continues Latka: “Paul (Schimeck) knew we had to go back further so we wanted a lot of line.”

Recalls firefighter Dennis Welcher of second-due Engine 5: “I went up the aerial of Ladder 9, positioned on the service drive. The ladder was in the third window from the far right or south end of the warehouse. I got onto the fourth floor and could see other firefighters at the other end. There was a fire on the floor. It was a little smoky but not enough to require SCBA. The firefighters were huddled around the fire, untying the line and talking. There was no atmosphere of emergency. I walked down the room and decided I’d better put my mask on because as soon as we started putting water on the fire it would be uncomfortable.”

Continues Welcher: “I started walking toward my comrades, about five windows down when all of a sudden the fire started growing. Then I heard them yell, ‘That’s it! Get out! Get out!’ It blew up. I’ve never seen a fire race like that, the way it hit the wall and turned left. It mushroomed like a wave of water; similar to when water hits something in a jar, sloshes and then turns. The fire was everywhere—on the ground, ceiling, floors, walls.

“Suddenly, it just blew up and hit the top of the ceiling, shot to the front wall and started racing down the warehouse toward me,” says Welcher. “The fire was between myself and the other firefighters. It came right to the wall, turned left and just consumed the warehouse. Fire was coming out every window it passed. It raced along the floor and top of the ceiling at the same time. Some of the firefighters were running for the windows. I turned around and started running back to the aerial ladder. I jumped out the window onto the aerial and I wasn’t two rungs down the ladder when the fire came out the window through which I had just passed.”

Confirms English: “The fire was coming right through the doors across from us. A fireball came out the doorway, so we took off, running for the stairs, but the fire was outrunning us. It came right across the 12-foot-high ceiling. The heat and smoke were banking down on us.

Explains English: “We got to the bales and couldn’t find the stairs. There were other firefighters, and Latka, Derrick Grochowski and Schimeck were looking for them. I radioed the chief and said, ‘Get ladders up; get us out of here; we’re in trouble!’ At that point we still couldn’t find the stairs so I went to a window, looked out and saw they didn’t have many firefighters down there. So I went back and tried to find the stairway again. It was just too hot. I got back to the bales but couldn’t stay there. I put my mask on and went back to the window again. Visibility was terrible; you couldn’t see a hand in front of your face. A flashlight was useless.”

In response to the radio message requesting help, a second alarm was requested immediately by Acting Chief Adams, only 13 minutes after the initial alarm was dispatched. The third alarm was transmitted three minutes later.

Recalls Latka: “We had to run more than 100 feet. I was the last one to really get up and walk. All these guys were in front of me. I remember seeing their names on the back of their coats. But after going about 30 feet, they just disappeared. We could hear the fire crackling over our heads as we ran. We knew the fire was coming right behind us.”

Except for the bales at the top of the stairs, the room was clear of other large obstacles. Explains Latka: “The north stairway was about 30 to 40 feet in from the building line and I must have run right by it.” Concurs Grochowski of Squad 4: “I had the same trouble as the others. Basically, we were all together at that point, running from the room. When we got to the point where we thought the stairs were located, we split looking for it.’

“All the firefighters on the top floor were in the same general area, but you couldn’t see them,” says Latka.

Two firefighters did find the stairs. Sergeant Thiebert of Engine 34 was coming up the stairs, saw Sergeant Gusoff of Ladder 9 at the top and pulled him down the stairway. Firefighter Donald Bynum found the stairway on his own. Thiebert, thinking that other firefighters were still upstairs and in trouble, went to the top floor to search.

Remembers Welcher: “I came down the aerial and firefighter Barbara Grace was coming up. I told her to get down, and we both proceeded down the ladder. We got to the street, a little past the front door of the warehouse, and that’s when I looked up to see five faces in four windows. They came out of the smoke and fire from nowhere. We were shocked that they hadn’t made the stairs andwere still up there.’

Adds English: ‘‘We mounted the windows simultaneously, and firefighters ran to Ladder 9, positioned near the alley, and began pulling off a 40-foot ladder. They only had a couple of firelighters because almost everybody was still in the building.” The ladder had to he carried approximately 200 feet to the location of the trapped firefighters.

Says English: “I leaned out the window with my facepiece on so they could see me. A lot of smoke was going overhead and it was hot. My coat must have been up in the back and my boot might have been down a little bit because I got burned on the back of the thigh. I placed my right leg out the window onto a little lip, probably no more than two-and-a-half inches wide. I got my left leg on the window sill and took the facepiece off. With my left hand holding me in the window, I was out as far as I could be without falling.”

At this point, Lieutenant Schimeck fell from a window three or four windows south of English’s window. Schimeck was hanging out, holding on by his hands, when the fire started to vent out his window. He either slipped or fell and hit a small ledge on the floor below. When he hit the ledge, he fell backward and landed headfirst on the sidewalk.

Welcher ran to Schimeck, dragged him to the middle of the street and started to work on him. Says Welcher: ‘‘He was lying at the base of the building with his SCBA on. Fire was pouring out the windows. We started working on him. Other companies started pulling up. We placed Schimeck in the back of an arson car and took him to the hospital.”

“He was trying to hold on,” claims English. “I saw him fall and I saw him hit the ground. I knew he was dead. I hoped I didn’t fall like that. I tried to look back inside. There was nothing except fire to the left. Out in the street was a 40-foot plus drop. I started looking at a heavy telephone cable that was about 15 feet off the ground, thinking, ‘If I’ve got to go, that’s what I have to go for.’ Then I could see the guys coming with the ladder.”

Fire was blowing out the front windows of the warehouse on the south end and was moving toward English, Grochowski and Latka, trapped on the north side. Says English: “All along the top floor we could see fire bursting out the windows in a domino effect, coming out each window. The fire had reached the area from where Schimeck fell, three or four windows away from us. Fire surrounded us in there. The heat! That’s why we had to get as low as possible at the windows. My hand was holding me in the window that was approximately 30 inches off the floor. I had gloves on and still got second-degree burns.”

Recalls Grochowski: “Lieutenant English and I were hanging out windows right next to each other, waiting for help to arrive. I crawled out onto a ledge that was one- to two-inches wide. Because the fire was already blowing by us, I just wanted to get out of its way. I slipped and fell backward, catching the telephone cable on the way down. I hit the cable and did a complete 360-degree turn and as soon as I hit the ground, I got up and got out of there. My helmet had fallen off in the fall. I broke my wrist, shoulder and sustained a bone-deep laceration.”

States English: “The ladder was on the outside of the telephone cable and when the fly section was raised, the dogs didn’t lock and it slid back down. I was reaching for it and it started down. They raised the ladder back up. The ladder never did get back into the building but when it came up, I grabbed it and swung out on it. The chief was on the ground hollering, ‘slide it,’ so I slid down the best I could. When I got to the ground, I saw Grochowski. I figured anyone who falls four floors and gets up walking is in pretty good shape. I looked to my right and they were working on Schimeck. I knew he was gone.”

Sergeant Thiebert attempted to search for the other firefighters trapped on the top floor but he, too, was forced to a window. Miraculously, he wound up at the same window where English had been. He also came down the portable ladder used to rescue English only seconds before. “As Thiebert was coming down the ladder, other firefighters were hollering, ‘We’ve got a guy around the corner, says English. Continues he: “I ran over and looked up and that’s when I saw Latka. We had to get the ladder over to him by pushing it over an eight-foot- high fence. Don Bynum went over the fence first, without a ladder. I called for a small, 12-foot extension ladder, went up on that and jumped over from the top. The other firefighters followed us over, and we raised the ladder, threw up the fly section and Latka came out on it.”

Joe Zyla of Engine 10 headed for a hydrant approximately 50 feet north of the fire building, positioned at the hydrant, set the brake and put the engine into pump. Exiting the rig, he looked up and unexpectedly saw the fire venting out the front windows and five faces appear in the windows amid heavy smoke.

Remembers Latka: “When I got to the window and straddled the ledge, I looked down the building and saw the fire coming out all windows to my right along the top floor.” Continues Latka: “We started to run toward the stairway after the fire blew. When I hit the first pile of rags, it was already so black that I knew if I didn’t use my mask I would pass out. I got on my hands and knees and put on my mask. I knew we were in trouble; everybody wanted to know, ‘Where’s the stairway, where’s the stairway?’ The lieutenant got on the radio and called for help. I had to go to the window.”




(Message edited by MikeM on September 15, 2006)
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Mikem
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Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 12:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



quote:

The fire was coming toward Latka with the same domino effect that occurred in the front of the building. This time, the fire was approaching Latka’s position from the rear of the warehouse. Recalls Latka: “Zyla saw I was trapped. He had to hook up to the hydrant, set up the deck gun and crank up the pressure. He then climbed up on the engine and directed the deck gun toward my area.
“I was probably up in the window for approximately four or five minutes before he got the deck gun aimed to my window.”

Continues Latka: “I was holding on. I looked back into the window out of the black smoke and I saw a flash of red come whipping out. Then I looked at the window right next to me and the fire was trying to whip out that window too! So I knew the deck gun was holding the fire back. After I was up there for a couple of minutes I could see the firefighters struggling with the ladder.”

Several firefighters hopped over the eight-foot. chain-link fence. They pushed the 40-foot pole ladder on top of the fence where it got stuck. With a minimum of manpower they were pushing and pulling on the ladder trying to get it into position to reach Latka.

Remembers Latka: “I’ve been to fires where they’ve put a monitor in a window and it still didn’t hold back the fire. I really didn’t think I was out of it yet. I said, ‘I’m not going to jump until I start to burn,’ but I already had resigned myself to jumping. I also thought, ‘When I jump and hit the ground, I’ll be hurt. I’ll never be a firefighter again.’ But when the monitor bought me a few minutes, I thought, ‘Well, you know maybe, maybe, I might get out of here.’ That’s when I saw the ladder. I started to feel a little bit better about it. When the ladder came I was just happy to get out of there. I got down to the bottom, saw Lieutenant English and gave him a hug. I saw he was burned. And I saw Zyla, the engineer, and looked him right in the eye. He looked at me. We had to get the guys to the hospital so we all got in the squad rig and went to the hospital but I came back later and thanked Zyla.”

Says Latka: “We were lucky to get to the windows, and I’m glad nobody stayed in the place and burned. That would have been worse.

A few firefighters tried to make an attack up the stairway after the fourth floor blew, but conditions were so bad they couldn’t reach the top of the stairs. Says Latka: “When we were walking to the squad rig, the fourth floor was fully involved and the cars in the street were starting to burn. We couldn’t even walk down the street. Our hands were burning in our gloves. That’s how hot the fire was.” Confirms English: “Before we went to the hospital the fire had already communicated across a 15-foot-wide alley to the south and involved the roof of the Continental Paper Company. The fourth and fifth alarms were requested shortly thereafter.”

States Latka: “There was nobody up there with less than 14 years on the job. They called it when we got up there – we had three separate rubbish fires. It was a total surprise to us. We’ve seen a lot of fires, but nothing like this.

“All the windows were open; that was obvious because they were all knocked out. The firefighters knew where the stairway was. The room was clear. Smoke was at the top of the ceiling and light smoke was coming out of the windows. There appeared to be nothing to worry about.”

Adds Grochowski: “The back room was open except for where the four or five bales were burning openly. The room extended back, but the distance from the front room door to the fire location was approximately 100 to 125 feet in a north-eastern direction. The whole top floor was open.

Investigators theorize another fire was burning out of control unbeknown to firefighters in the extreme northeast section of the warehouse. The raging fire then exploded through a double doorway and entered the room in which firefighters were about to operate.

Another minor miracle occurred during the fire. Shortly after Latka was rescued, a high-voltage power line came down in the area in front of the building where the firefighters had been raising the portable ladder to rescue English, Schimeck and Grochowski.

The fire spread rapidly to the Continental Paper Company warehouse, which was sprinklered. The three-story structure consisted of several sections and was built of heavy timber construction. The building was triangular in shape, measuring more than 300 feet long, facing the expressway service drive. The side that faced the vacant warehouse was 300 feet long. The south side of the building was nearly 340 feet long and was adjacent to railroad tracks. Access to the alley between the vacant warehouse and Continental was blocked because of the heavy fire condition. The top floor of the vacant warehouse facing the service drive collapsed, leaving the rest of the structure in a precarious position and subject to collapse.





Several ladder-pipes and elevating platforms were set up around the warehouse complex. Due to the crumbling walls, platforms had to be set up on the Jeffries Expressway. Additional platforms and hand-lines were placed in operation at the rear of the warehouse on Lawton Avenue. The fire had traveled the length of the structure and now was threatening a large, four-story, vacant commercial building, located to the north and east of the original fire building. Several hand-lines were required to keep the fire from gaining a foothold.

Several units were special called and requested to assist in the protection of exposures and to back up initial positions. The fire burned under the eaves of the paper company and also spread across the roof. Hand-lines were stretched into the first, second and third floors. Ladder-pipes and other master streams played onto the roof. The fire burned away the roof in several sections, probably damaging sprinkler piping in the area closest to the warehouse.

Because of the inability to get lines in between the warehouse and the paper company, heavy fire consumed the rear, three-story section of the paper company. Hose-lines were stretched along the railroad tracks on the south side of the paper company. The paper warehouse contained a large variety of paper goods and products loaded on pallets.

Operating in the exposure to the northeast, Lieutenant Dick Rail of Squad 6 recalls: “We stretched additional 2½-inch lines into the exposure. The original fire building had collapsed into the basement with only the walls standing. Some of the younger firefighters commented, ‘I guess that’s what it would be like to go to hell.’ We stayed there awhile until we heard over our portable radios that there were three firefighters trapped in the paper warehouse.” It was almost 6 P.M.

Continues Rail: “We ran down the service drive along with what seemed like anyone else who had a radio. When I got to the front of the building, acting Chief Adams asked me to get some lights and a generator, and directed us to where they thought the people were buried.”

Apparently Lieutenant Lau, firefighter Frank Doyle and trial firefighter Larry McDonald, Jr., all of Engine 26, were on the third floor of the paper warehouse. They were operating a 1½-inch hand-line when the hose snagged. They were putting out fire on the floor, pallets and whatever material was stored up there. The roof had burned away and the top floor was open to the sky. Doyle went back a few steps to free the line and while doing this, a 10- to 15-foot section of an interior wall, six feet in height, collapsed on top of Lau and McDonald. When Doyle turned around, they were gone. The wall hit them and fell, causing the third floor to collapse into the second floor. The second floor then collapsed into the first floor. There were several firefighters working on the second floor near the area that collapsed and they narrowly missed getting killed or injured.

Welcher returned from the hospital and was working in an exposure when the dreaded news came that three firefighters were trapped. He recalls: “It was pitch black in the paper company. The 14 or 15 firefighters were digging through all the bricks and paper. I started to help pull the stuff out. Things kept falling down. It was all wet. Every time we took something out, more came down on top of us. Fire was all around, on the top and in the next section of the building. The fire was rolling in the next room and everyone was afraid the wall adjacent to where we were working was going to come down on top of us. We were advised the fire was rolling in the next room and we might have to leave. The guys digging said, ‘Please don’t order us out, chief. Our buddies are in there. Just keep the fire off us. We’re going to get them out of here.’ They had lines going in the next room. When the floors collapsed there were big piles of paper burning and bricks hanging. We had to take a hand-line to keep those off us while we worked.”

Says Rail: “Ironically, the third man we were looking for was right there digging with us. Nobody knew it until I asked the deputy chief to ascertain who had responded. He questioned the equipment operator of Engine 26 who related four men had arrived with the engine. Somebody kept asking, ‘Where’s Frank Doyle?’ They knew the lieutenant and they had found the trial firefighter’s helmet. They knew two of them were buried and they couldn’t find the third one. Then all of a sudden, Doyle says. ‘Here I am,’ and he was right beside the guys digging, trying to find the men from his company. He must have been in shock and didn’t hear us calling his name.”

Continues Rail: “At one time, there were probably 60 to 75 firefighters in the area digging. While digging, a ruptured three-inch sprinkler pipe gushed right onto the debris, hindering operations.” Adds Welcher: “It took nearly 40 minutes to find the missing men. We could see right up to the sky and in between the floors and how everything had slid down. We had some ropes tied around some pallets and beams so they wouldn’t fall. We couldn’t use a shovel because the stuff was so soggy and heavy. The area where the guys could get in was sloped where all the stuff had come down. To be effective, only six or seven guys could dig at one time.”

Continues Welcher: “All of a sudden we found a boot, then a hand and then McDonald. Once we found the first firefighter, Lau was found underneath him. Then, everybody was ordered out of the building and to report to their rigs for a head count.”

Concludes Welcher: “It made me proud because everyone worked and refused to leave the site until their comrades were found.”

Adds Rail: “Everybody hung together until they dug them out one way or another. No one worried about his own life. No one worried about the condition of the building even though it could come down at any time.”

After the firefighters were removed from the debris, units held a defensive operation throughout the night and into the next day. Most of the companies in the city operated at the fire during its height or to relieve others. The past two times Detroit firefighters died in the line of duty occurred when fighting fires in vacant buildings. The cause of this fire is still under investigation. Willie J. Clemons, 36, was charged with three counts of first-degree murder and arson after first naming someone else for starting the fire. Clemons apparently confessed to starting the fire.

Killed in the fire were Lieutenant Paul Schimeck, 46, a 26-year veteran, Lieutenant David Lau, 58, a 31-year veteran and trial firefighter Larry McDonald, Jr., 20. McDonald was to receive his badge as a firefighter on March 23, after a four-month, on-the-job training program.



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Detroitteacher
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Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 5:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lt Schimick relieved my dad at Engine 10 that day. Sad day for all DFD families, we lost 3 great guys. That story was very hard for me to read...had it been one day (or a few hours) earlier, that could have been my dad we buried. Dad has had his share of Angels riding on his shoulder during his time at DFD.
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Ffdfd
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Posted on Saturday, September 16, 2006 - 4:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That was the most significant day in DFD history in a very long time. I would estimate around a quarter of our current personnel were on the job back then. If you ask around, you'll get a lot of fascinating/heartwrenching tales from that day.

There were five people extensively quoted in the story: Lt. English, Lt. Rail, Bob Latka, Derrick Grochowski and Dennis Welcher. Lt. English suffered a line of duty death in 1994. I believe he had a heart attack at a fire while serving as chief. He has two sons on the job -- a lieutenant and a sergeant. The whole family is highly respected. Unfortunately, the sergeant was seriously injured at a fire a couple months ago.

I'm not that familiar with Lt. Rail. I believe he retired in the last year or two as a chief. Welcher retired over the summer. He was captain of either Engine 52 or Ladder 31. Grochowski is captain at Squad 4 and very close to making chief. Latka, the one stuck in the window who thought he would have to jump, is captain at Engine 23 and also close to making chief. Another great, great fireman held in very high esteem.
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Detroitteacher
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Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 9:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can also vouch that those men are well respected on the job (and off). Dad knows each one of them. Dad was a pallbearer for Lt Schimick during the funeral at Cobo. That was one sad day for all. I think it brought all involved a bit closer since it hit so close to home.

Thanks for the update as to where these fine guys are now. Peace and prayers with each one of you.
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Dfd
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Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 10:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The children of the city take it hard when a fireman gets hurt don't they? Thanks for the article Mikem. Ffdfd, be safe out there!
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Dfd
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Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 10:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mikem, do you have that issue of Firehouse magazine?
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Mikem
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Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 10:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes. You want it?
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Dfd
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Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes! Email me your terms.
jwr0512@fuse.net
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Mikem
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Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 11:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Before I send it away, here's how Detroit ranked with its competition back in 1986.

Busiest Engine Companies:

Busiest Engine Co


Busiest Ladder Companies:

Busiest Ladder Cos


Busiest Fire Stations:

Busiest Stations


Total Alarms (Fire + EMS):

Total Alarms


Annual Dept Budgets. The list included 78 cities, but Detroit was not listed, either because they didn't supply the data, or they ranked lower than places such as Sioux Falls (doubtful):

Annual Budgets


Firefighter Top Pay:

Pay


Busiest Ambulance/Paramedic Units:

 Busiest Paramedics


Total Fire Calls:

Total Calls


Total Fire Losses. Detroit was also left off this list:

Total Losses


Detroit ranked 4th in civilian fire deaths with 69 (NYC 206, Chicago 127, Philly 88).

There were 17 firefighter deaths on the job that year in 14 cities (3 Chicago, 2 Trenton, the other 1 each). Detroit had none.
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Dfd
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Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 10:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for those stats.
Go Ladder 25! It would be interesting to compare population and square miles to number of fires.
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Livedog2
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Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 12:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Check out the movie called "She Loved a Fireman" (1937). It's kind of hookey but it has some good fire scenes and great training films.

Livedog2
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Mtm
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Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 1:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mikem,

Thanks for sharing the very poignant article. It truly speaks volumes to the valor of our heros in uniform.

Curious, though: the author of the article is Harvey Eisner. DFD's often awarded, defacto photographer for year is/was Bill Eisner. He did some of the BEST shots of DFD work and I believe he kept a coat and helmet in his car to follow our troops.
letthemlive
Anybody know if they're related?

(Message edited by mtm on September 19, 2006)
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 1623
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 9:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

These photos are from the fire that destroyed the Detroit Armory, on the NW corner of E Larned and Brush Sts. All photos from WSU/VMC.


Detroit Armory Fire

Detroit Armory Fire

Detroit Armory Fire
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 3007
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 12:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here are a couple of stumble upons from last Thursday during a drive-about on the Detroit Music Bar's tour shoot. This one 24 / 51 was right next to the famous former Morey Baker's Lounge nka the Lockeroom on Livernois.

fire

This one, a quick passing shot, is shown by the street signs.

firehouse
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Ffdfd
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Username: Ffdfd

Post Number: 9
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 12:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In Lowell's first photo above, you can see that Ladder 18 is parked in the spot where Ladder 24 should be. That's because Ladder 24 is one of the companies the city closes on a daily basis. I don't know where the Ladder 24 rig is -- I would guess being "loaned" to a truck company whose regular rig is busted up.

The crew of Ladder 24 is dispersed every day to wherever manpower is needed (same goes for the crews of Engine 21, Engine 41, TAC 2 and Ladder 16, and more often than not Engines 31 and 47). None of these companies is officially deactivated, at least not until next July 1.

Ladder 18 normally operates out of the house in Lowell's second photo -- you can barely make it out in the stone above the bay door on the left. From what I hear, repairs are being done to the apparatus floor at the 7 Mile/John R. house, so Ladder 18 and its crew are running out of the vacated Ladder 24 bay temporarily. That floor at Engine 44 was really deteriorated. Whenever I worked there I wondered how they'd get the engine out of the basement when it finally gave way.

Hey, it might be time to apply to the post office. Check out that pay! Nothing to be disgruntled about there.
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Dfd
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Post Number: 142
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Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 7:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Lowell for the pictures!
Here is an example of the nice woodwork and masonry of the older firehouses.


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Dfd
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Username: Dfd

Post Number: 143
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Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 8:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Truck 10

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Mtm
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Username: Mtm

Post Number: 109
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 2:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ffdfd,

Where do the dispersed crews report for work? Do they just guess an engine house? Also, with crew shifts, I'm sure you guys are still at three on a rig, right?

Lowell and Dfd, Thanks for the great photos!
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Dfd
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Post Number: 144
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Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mikem,
I got the magazine yesterday. Thanks! One of our commanders is already wanting me to leave it with him to read. He is one of our group that has been up to ride with DFD.
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Ffdfd
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Username: Ffdfd

Post Number: 12
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Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mtm,
We don't ride three anymore. We won the four-man ride as a safety issue a few years ago. Now, based on manpower numbers, the city closes companies to get us to four people per rig. You'll only see a rig get busted down to three if someone calls off sick.

As for how the dispersal works, most of the companies closed on a daily basis are located at double camps -- i.e. the firehouse has an engine and a truck, or an engine and a squad, and only one of those rigs gets shut down. So those are active firehouses every day. Crews report like normal to their house. It's just that if one of the rigs is down for the day, there are extra "details" out in the morning. (A detail is a daily assignment to another firehouse.)

As for single companies like Engine 41 and Ladder 16, I'm not sure how they operate the dispersal. Those are not active firehouses most days. I'm guessing they get their "details" from their battalion chiefs' quarters. For Ladder 16 that would be Engine 17 (Chief 5), for Engine 41 it's Engine 32 (Chief 6).
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 1650
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Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A couple of photos from WSU of a fire at the Sander's in 1942, located on E Jefferson near Lakewood.

DFD 1942 Sanders fire

DFD 1942 Sanders fire
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Mtm
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Username: Mtm

Post Number: 114
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ffdfd,

I'm glad that you guys are, most of the time, back to four on a rig. And, though it's been 25 years since Dad retired, I DO remember "details" because in his Chiefing years, I remember him working on them.

Pity on Ladder 16 (Helen and Miller, right?) because that's where Dad was as Chief 3 before he went to HQ as 203. E36/L16/C3 (if memory serves right) is where they had their last firedog, a great shephard named Baron. It's also where Dad once made Channel 7 news for several days when he discovered an abandoned funeral home across the street that was still loaded with all the embalming stuff and other dangers without being properly secured.

Sorry that the DFD is such a lessened image of what it used to be but please know that all of you still have our HIGHEST admiration. As you've heard many time on this board, YOU ARE HEROS!
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Ffdfd
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Username: Ffdfd

Post Number: 13
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Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 5:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The area around Ladder 16 now is pure urban prairie. There are blocks north of the firehouse with literally no structures at all. However, I think the school a block north of the firehouse is still open (unless it got the axe this year) ... a rural schoolhouse right in the city.

You can see what the neighborhood looks like at the web site below. The firehouse address is 7000 Miller. Use the web site's aerial and bird's-eye features. The images seem pretty up to date.
http://local.live.com/

Funny thing about Chief 3. When the city restructured the department in July '05 (layoffs, permanent company closings), the third battalion was eliminated ... no more Chief 3, and the third-battalion companies were scattered to the first, fifth and sixth battalions. Fifteen months later, we still have eight battalions. So there's a Chief 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9, but no Chief 3.
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Mtm
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Post Number: 115
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Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 1:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WOW! It wasn't the greatest area years ago but I didnt realize so much of it had been razed. As I mentioned there was an abandoned funeral home across the street from it maybe 30-35 years ago.

Sad that retired Dad's "old number" and the gap is even stranger. Since they were reorging, why not just eliminated 9 and shift everybody around? Oh, that's right, we're talking Detroit... So, is there still a 203?

Oh, and thanks for the great link! I may have to wste more time with it later.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 671
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Posted on Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 10:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dad was Chief 2 before he retired. It is amazing that so much has changed in just a few short years.
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Ffdfd
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Username: Ffdfd

Post Number: 15
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Since they were reorging, why not just eliminated 9 and shift everybody around? Oh, that's right, we're talking Detroit... So, is there still a 203?"

We have an Engine 1 and an Engine 60, but there are less than 40 engines in service, so there are lots of gaps there too. The senior chief is still 203.

As for the reorg, it actually hasn't gone as far as the city wants yet. Last year there were more layoffs and permanent company closings planned than happened. Plus, the city was going to eliminate battalions and have four or five large zones. And chiefs were no longer going to respond to "garden variety fires," as our commissioner called them.

Our union has forestalled the deeper cuts thus far. And we have an agreement with the city for no more permanent company closing until at least July. Once all this shakes out a little more, we'll probably have consecutively numbered battalions or zones or whatever they're going to call them. But for now Chief 3 is a hole in the lineup.
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Mtm
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Post Number: 118
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Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 4:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ffdfd,

Sorry about all the gaps but I'll be very happy to tell Dad that there's still a 203. He was SO proud of that and, even in that position, never hesitated to go into a raging blaze. Pity that Chiefs won't be able to respond to garden variety fires any more. Not sure if it'll make much difference to the FF on the line but it made SUCH a difference to Dad to still be RIGHT THERE.

I talked to Dad last night and he was amazed at the desolation around E36/L16/C3. (I'm hoping that my brother can show him these posts and the sky shots of the area around Helen and Miller.) He again regaled me with the tale of the abandoned funeral home. He had dressed in street clothes to investigate it on his own. He said that neighbors stood outside and were horrified about what he found within.

See, that's part of what gets in to the depth and breadth of FFs and us DFDbrats. Caring about our city and about its occupants becomes so much a part of us.

Again, as ever, I still thank those of you fighting the GOOD FIGHT.

(HEY! LOWELL!! Is there some relatively easy that I can print off all of these messages to send my Dad hard copy since he doesn't do computers?)

(Message edited by mtm on October 03, 2006)
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 677
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Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mtm, I couldn't agree more about firebrats also caring about the city and its occupants. I think if the Cheifs can't go to garden varieties many guys won't take the position. My dad loved having being in the thick of the smoke as he called it.

I really love this thread. Not one nasty post in the 5 pages we have on here. No one slamming others for the job they do or what they say here.

I also thank all of the brothers and sisters of dad out there fighting the good fight!Stay safe and always check your oxygen level on your tank (something dad told everyone everyday he worked).
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Ffdfd
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Username: Ffdfd

Post Number: 16
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Pity that Chiefs won't be able to respond to garden variety fires any more."

That fight's not over and I'm not sure the city will get what it wants. We've won in court so far framing it as a safety issue, which it certainly is. The city wants one of the company officers on scene to be the incident commander and only have a chief respond if specially called or for a multiple alarm.

No other major city would consider not having a chief at a house fire. The chiefs are our most experienced guys and they possess invaluable expertise. At a fire, a company officer needs to concentrate on supervising his crew and protecting their safety, not running the show. If he's outside, who's watching his crew's backs?

Anyway, it hasn't happened yet and I hope it doesn't. More cuts are inevitable, but this is one change we can't afford.

BTW Detroitteacher, that was good advice your dad gave on checking one's tank at the start of every shift. I know I always do. And I'll bet the fathers of both Mtm and Detroitteacher would agree there is no such thing as a "garden variety fire."
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Dfd
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Post Number: 146
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Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Full air tanks and full water tanks!
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 680
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Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2006 - 5:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dad said every fire was different and each had a life of its own. Keep fighting the fight in court and hopefully someone with some sense will realize it's dangerous (what the city is trying to do).
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Dfd
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Username: Dfd

Post Number: 147
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Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2006 - 7:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I really love this thread. Not one nasty post in the 5 pages we have on here. No one slamming others for the job they do or what they say here."
Bravo! We're pullin' for ya here in KY too. Alot of firefighters from all over rate you guys up at the top.
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Mtm
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Username: Mtm

Post Number: 119
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Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2006 - 11:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Believe it or not, Dad never had an airtank and most of the tanks that were issued then were almost useless. Dad took great pride (and still does) in having gone into thousands of incredible fires without a mask. And believe it or not, after almost 40 years of breathing who-knows-what crap, he's still in decent health - perfect lungs. Guess he was just born for the job.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 682
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Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2006 - 5:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dfd, we firebrats are pulling for the firefighters all over the world. You guys are our heroes.
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Dfd
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Username: Dfd

Post Number: 148
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2006 - 11:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is an interesting thread at detroitfirefighters.net

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/ tool/post/jlrandall/vpost?id=1 422882
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 687
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Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 5:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Halloween fires have not dropped off...at least not when dad was active duty. It's just not reported to the media. Dad said that fires on Haloween and the few nights before and after are par for the course and business as usual type of day.
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Dfd
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Username: Dfd

Post Number: 149
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Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 10:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I found some pictures from Headquarters.



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Dfd
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Username: Dfd

Post Number: 150
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Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 8:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is looking out of an upstairs window (northish over Moran St.)at Eng. 23. 1818 E. Grd. Blvd

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Mtm
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Username: Mtm

Post Number: 122
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Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 2:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dfd,

Thanks for the great pics. of HQ. glad that they didnt strip the wonderful marble from the walls.

Years and years (and years) ago, there was a firefighter at HQ who painted trompe l'oeil to mess with people. I think his name was Larry Kosmalski. He was quite good and I particularly remember either a "gum wrapper" or a "dollar bill" in the elevator. Any chance that it's still there?
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 697
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Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 4:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mtm, I remember dad speaking of that wrapper... I also fondly remember parking in HQ when attending events at Cobo or downtown. Thos were the days of free, secure parking!! I, too, am glad to see the marble remains.
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Mtm
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Username: Mtm

Post Number: 123
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Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 1:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitteacher,

Thanks for verifying the painting in the elevator and confirming that it was a gum wrapper. The guy who painted it was an amazing artist and it looked INCREDIBLY REAL. Before I lost my hands and arms to 30 years of geekdom, I used to draw, paint and calligraph and I always envied his talent.
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Dfd
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Post Number: 151
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Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 6:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eng. 18 hose tower

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Dfd
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Username: Dfd

Post Number: 152
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Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 6:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's the other one.

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Dfd
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Username: Dfd

Post Number: 153
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Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 4:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a link to some pictures of DFD in action.

http://cms.firehouse.com/conte nt/article/article.jsp?id=5158 2&sectionId=45
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 1684
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 8:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DFD Engine 39 1949

A photo of Engine 39, a 1919 Ahrens-Fox that was the oldest unit in the DFD, 1949.
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Dfd
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Username: Dfd

Post Number: 154
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 8:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How have you firebrats been?
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Mtm
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Username: Mtm

Post Number: 127
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 2:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey, Dfd! Don't know about the others but I've been working my dupa off! With fall quickly passing and the holidays approaching, it seems like there's never enough time for everythng between work-work and home-work. MORE IMPORTANT: How are our HEROs doing??

Saw a newsstory the other night covering a fire (not last night's - colder). What I really noticed, though, was that the reporter was wearing a pair of the white Salvation Army gloves that get passed out at COLD fires. Dad always mentioned how much the gloves and hot coffee meant to him on very cold nights. I ALWAYS drop a buck in EVERY SA pot I see, even the same one going into and out of a store.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 744
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Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 4:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Like Mtm, I've been working my butt off now that we are back at work and my classes are overfilled with kids.

I, too, drop all my change in the SA buckets because dad also appreciated the warm drinks and warm ups they received at cold fires. I especially remember the brothers (fathers, grandpas etc) about this time of year...hoping that they stay safe and warm now that heaters are on, Christmas tress are lit (or will be), pumpkins are all aflame and the dumb people who can't think right and not use Kerosene heaters in the house (or leave the stove on to keep warm). Those all make me nervous because that is how many fires get started about this time of year.

I did smell leaves burning in the neighborhood and had warm fuzzies because of that smell. To me, that smell means dad is safe...people just have no clue and often laugh at me when I take a huge nostril full of smokey smell in.

Keep safe out there!!
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Dfd
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Username: Dfd

Post Number: 155
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Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 7:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, the Salvation Army really came through for us a few years a go at a winter time warehouse fire.Food, drinks, dry gloves, and a local bank opened their lobby up for them to set up(it was after buisness hours).
Good to hear from y'all.
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Dfd
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Username: Dfd

Post Number: 156
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Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 3:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey, we can listen to DFD live at detroitfirefighters.net
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 748
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 6:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My dad has a scanner so I listen all the time (when I am over there). I also see the guys regularly when they visit him. DFD.net is a great site, though.
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Dfd
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Username: Dfd

Post Number: 157
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Posted on Sunday, October 29, 2006 - 7:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are they guys that are still on the job?
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 750
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Posted on Monday, October 30, 2006 - 5:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep, they are. Dad has close ties to most guys--retired and on the job from the houses he called home.
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Mtm
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Username: Mtm

Post Number: 129
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Posted on Monday, October 30, 2006 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey, Detroitteacher,

Got another one for you: can you identify whats burning by the smell of the smoke? I can tell the difference between a paper fire, trash fire, house fire, etc. It was VERY handy for me many years back working in a computer room. I walked past a disk drive (the size of washing machines back then) and smelled ozone. Checked the drive and it had crashed. My staff were amazed that I smelled the headcrash before there were even system errors.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 751
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Posted on Monday, October 30, 2006 - 6:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HEHEHE, of course I can tell. Sometimes people get freaked out when the smell of something burning doesn't bother me (I am not running). This inborn feature of firebrats comes in handy when something in the school is one fire. If I am not running, my kids aren't running. Funny, though, I can wake up if a neighbors house is on fire (and it's happened) and will sleep right through leaves burning. I also know when something is on fire on the grill (even the neighbor's grill). I thought I was the only one with this innate ability. Glad to know I'm not alone!!
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Mtm
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Username: Mtm

Post Number: 130
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Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 2:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ah ha! But, now, is it heredity or environment? Do our Dad's have some genetic trait that lead them to their heroic paths? And might it be possible that we inherited some of the trait that might have led us to the department had times and circumstances been different? Or is it just that, having "chased" so many fires with our Dads we just learned? (My older brother has it, too, and he's on a suburban department.)

In any case, I think we were very lucky to inherit or learn from our Dads!!
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 752
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Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it was a bit of both. We would chase fires and dad would be able to tell exactly what was burning long before we actually saw anything. He can tell by the smoke in the sky from miles away, too. He used to quiz my sister and I on this, so maybe it's a bit of dad and a bit of heredity. I wanted to become a fireperson but dad forbid it. He said that he couldn't take that much stress worrying about me. I became a teacher instead (at a high school) and he says he worries just as much. I think had the dept been more accepting of females, I would have joined the ranks, despite what dad said (although I don't think he'd have spoken to me for years had I followed that path).

My sister also has this "gift". Our friends used to set stuff on fire (contained, of course) and try and fool us. We always won those bets. Dad said he's always had the ability to nose a fire out. His brother was on the dept and then dad joined. I think it's in our genes. Whatever causes it, I'm glad I have it. I do love my dad for all that he's done for me and other folks he doesn't even know. I can't even begin to describe, in words, what dad and his "brothers" mean to me.
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Dfd
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Username: Dfd

Post Number: 158
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 6:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They're busy tonight!

http://detroitfire.dvrdns.org: 8000/live.m3u
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 753
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Firemen and Women:

Please be safe out there tonight (and all nights). Have fun handing out candy to the trick or treaters, keep an eye on our kids. We know you always do, but please be most careful tonight. Be sure to call your families later to let them know you are safe...call as often as you can.

Halloween was always a scary time for we firebrats because our dads were called in for reinforcements quite often. Many senseless fires set for no reason cause much harm to our heroes. We always held our breath as we heard the scream of the sirens, knowing that our many fathers were on their way to a dangerous situation. It was always a relief when the phone tree call would come in (this is before cell phones...one guy would call his family and that family would call another family and so on). The phone rang all night, but it was a relieving call.

I also remember trick or treating at the firehall. They always gave full size candy bars (we'd go back more than once, hoping to get a different guy passing out candy). We also knew that we could go in and get a drink of water or use the facilities if needed. We also knew that that was our safehouse should anything happen along the way. Thanks for being the neighborhood eyes and ears...and for keeping our kids safe.
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Dfd
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Username: Dfd

Post Number: 159
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Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 6:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey, do we have any firefighters (active or retired ) that have a story you can share about your firebrat's visits to the firehouse? Makes you feel proud to show off the rigs doesn't it?
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 3228
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2006 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How about this old timer that I found by an abandoned factory in Novi? Dating from the old volunteer fire department days? It looks like what they would have in the small towns of my youth. Notes about this welcome.
old fire truck

And a place through which I am sure all you fire fighters are connected. "Fire University" on W. Warren at Lawton.
FireU
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 756
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 2:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a pic of dad a few years before he retired. Small things are appreciated alot by firemen...a cold bomb pop from the ice cream man is a fav.


Here is dad in action, he just couldn't resist a good fire...


Here is dad and me in our backyard on Winthrop many, many moons ago


** both top photos were taken by Bill Eisner and presented as a gift for dad's retirement. The top photo "mug shot" is dad being silly...helps keep the tension and stress level down. He really doesn't look that silly on a day to day basis.

(Message edited by detroitteacher on November 07, 2006)
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Ffdfd
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Username: Ffdfd

Post Number: 21
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 10:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Training Academy, pictured by Lowell above, is one sorry excuse for a building ... just an old heap. It's probably not unlike how Detroitteacher describes Cooley. It needs to be razed and replaced with something modern and useful.

A few years ago, the little A-frame building to the left of the Academy went up. Now, any training classes we attend take place there. There are no windows in that building, only glass block.

Although the Training Academy is past its prime, it could tell a million stories. Generations of DFD members have passed through there as cadets. New hires now go through 16 weeks at the Academy before going into the field. It used to be only eight weeks until the late 1980s. As the fire service got more technical and took on more roles -- hazmat, medical first responder, etc. -- new guys needed more training.

Ladder 9 ran out of the Training Academy until it was deactivated in the early '90s. EMS still runs out of there, at least it did the last time I knew.
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Dfd
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Username: Dfd

Post Number: 160
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 8:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That rig looks like a mid-late 40s International.
The volunteer dept. I was on a long time ago had a 47 International. The cab looks a lot like this one.
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Dfd
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Username: Dfd

Post Number: 161
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 8:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitteacher
Thanks a lot for the pictures! You must be proud.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 757
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 8:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am VERY proud of dad and all his "brothers and sisters". I guess growing up the daughter of a fireman there have been many instances of fear. The pride far outweighed the fear, though. When most kids (those pesky teen years) were trying to keep away from their parents, I was beaming with pride and remained close to my folks. Perhaps it was the fear that dad would go to work and not return. I wanted no regrets. We always told each other we loved each other because it could be our last. No matter what dad was doing, he always broke out if he could to attend recitals, concerts, etc. Even for my son he did this. No one could have been more proud of her father walking into the event...dressed in his dress blues, or Captain's dress clothes later on, than I was of my dad. I still am extremely proud of my dad and all that he has done fo the city, me and my sister (and mom), and for his grandkids. I've never known dad to be selfish in anything that he's done, certainly not his job.

Yeah, I'm very proud.
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2909
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I found this old Grosse Pointe Park rig in the weeds of an auto yard near the Conner Avenue Hudson plant. It had been used by a vocational school near the airport before being junked:



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Mtm
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Username: Mtm

Post Number: 134
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2006 - 12:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitteacher,

You expressed the essence of what we firebrats all feel. Our pride in our Dads is something SOOOO deep. And our saying "I Love You" at every opportunity is something I've even extended to the spousal-unit's family who, before I came along, weren't much into hugs and I love yous. Plus, I think that ALL firefighters are incredibly unselfish. It's like the portion in "What Is a Firefighter": He's a man who saves lives because he has seen too much death. He's a gentle man because he has seen the awesome power of violence out of control. He's responsive to a child's laughter because his arms have held too many small bodies that will never laugh again. He's a man who appreciates the simple pleasures of life - hot coffee held in numb, unbending fingers - a warm bed for bone and muscle compelled beyond feeling - the camaraderie of brave men - the divine peace and selfless service of a job well done in the name of all men."

When my Mom died five years ago, my brother eulogized her with a list of thank yous. Shortly after, I wrote one for Dad so he could hear it while he's still alive. It was two pages, single-spaced. I'm glad I could tell him.

On a side note, when I was verifying the quote, above, I found a pretty cool site: http://www.firefightersrealsto ries.com/tributes.html with had two tributes "A Firefighter's Child" and "My Dad" which I think Detroitteacher and I could almost post to. Detroitteacher, I think early on, you posted a tribute so touching you almost made me cry.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 758
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2006 - 8:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the words of agreement Mtm. I think all the firebrats around the world could say the same things. It's funny, at almost 40 yrs of age, I still hug and give my dad a kiss goodbye, no matter where we are. We have gotten funny looks but those don't matter. No one knows the anguish of not knowing if your parent will make it home from work like we firebrats, military brats, and cops kids do. Even now that dad is retired, he can't resist hanging out at his second home, he still sleeps restlessly like a fire alarm is about to go off. I don't think he's had a decent night's sleep in a long time...he misses his "job". He still cooks for 500 (when he does cook). He still doesn't consider himself any type of hero, but we who know them do. He still perks up at the sound of sirens or the smell of something burning. He still has the itch for the thrill and the satisfaction that he helped his fellow "man".

We firebrats can all tell the same story about our dads. We love them and are very proud, even though they say they were just doing what they love to do...and don't consider it any kind of big deal. It is and for that we are all grateful.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 759
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2006 - 8:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mtm, that is a great website you provided! I did try to submit my tribute to our dads but they are no longer maintaining their email...sad, I think there are many more of us who feel the need to let our heroes know how much they mean to us.
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Dfd
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Username: Dfd

Post Number: 162
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2006 - 9:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I think there are many more of us who feel the need to let our heroes know how much they mean to us."

detroitfirefighters.net has a good forum.
I'm sure they would like the encouraging words.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 760
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, November 10, 2006 - 5:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's already posted there under the thread "Thanks to our heroes" on page 2 of the board forum. I posted it there long before it made its way here...since we didn't have a firehouses thread at that point :-)
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Mtm
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Username: Mtm

Post Number: 135
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, November 10, 2006 - 11:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pity on the Tribute site. I also posted a couple messages on detroitfirefighters.net but almost felt like I was interfering with work-related issues. There IS a link on that site to this one so hopefully our heros can get HERE to see our tributes.

Oh, and Happy Veterans' day - a day early but celebrated today - to ALL our Veterans of military and civil service!
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 761
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, November 10, 2006 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mtm, I've heard from several firefighters that they enjoy hearing from us on dfd.net. Many people from out of state post there to inquire or to give words of encouragement. Keep posting here and there :-)
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Mtm
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Username: Mtm

Post Number: 136
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 3:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Will do, DetroitTeacher!

There was a separate thread on the riots that I was tempted to post to but instead I'll leave my memories here: Sunday afternoon, Dad laid down for a nap after early dinner (luckly he did because it was DAYS before he slept again) when the call came and he had to run. We hardly heard from him the entire time of the riot but it was the first time he ever took a sidearm with him.At one point, right in the middle, Dad got to come home and Mom made him his favorite Polish delicacy, Chop Suey <g>. My grandparents lived Denton street which was destroyed for the Poletown plant so they were closer to the action and came to stay with us, also to provide company to my Mom and us five kids. We were pretty scared. I remember Ken Thomas reporting everything on Channel 7 and we were glued to the TV because rioters were shooting at the rigs and firefighters. It was our only hope to hear if Dad was okay. When it ended and he finally came home he was, needless to say, exhausted and slept for days. He said that most of it was just a blur because it was a constant run from one fire to the next. We were SO relieved! It gave me a bit of a taste of what the families of our soldiers must go through for MONTHS.
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Ffdfd
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Username: Ffdfd

Post Number: 22
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From the web site http://www.67riots.rutgers.edu /d_victims.htm

John Ashby. Died 8/4/67 of injuries sustained on 7/34/67 at 7am. Ashby a 26 year-old white male, served as a firefighter with the Detroit Fire Department, Engine 21. He was electrocuted by a high-tension wire that struck his helmet while fighting a fire at a supermarket at Lafayette and Canton on Detroit’s East Side. He died a few weeks later at Detroit General Hospital as a result of burns and infection.

Carl Smith a 30-year-old white male firefighter died 7/25/67 at 12:50am. Carl Smith had worked for the Detroit Fire Department for five years and reportedly was a good father to his kids. He did not hesitate to join the fire team as they attempted to restore calm to the riot area. Smith was attempting organize units at Mack and St. Jean to quell some of the fires. At that point, gunshots were fired and chaos broke out. At the end of the gunfire, Smith was lying dead on the ground. It is unclear who fired the shots that killed Smith. Nobody was held criminally responsible for his death.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 763
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 8:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was Carl Smith that was mixed up with my dad (same last name). They had originally thought it was my dad and all mom heard on the news was that a firefighter by the name of Smith was killed. Needless to say, (I was only a month old so am going on stories told to me here) she was a basketcase and since the fire dept couldn't release any details she couldn't get any info. We weren't at home so no one would know where to contact mom if something did happen. It was over a day before word got to her that dad was safe.
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Mtm
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Username: Mtm

Post Number: 137
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, DetroitTeacher! I'm SO sorry! The agony your Mom must have gone through!! I'm glad you were too young to really remember though it must have been even harder on your Mom to have a newborn and fear that her husband had made the ultimate sacrifice. Firefighers' spouses are also a very SPECIAL class of an incredible amount of courage. I think they're heros in their own rights.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 764
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 8:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Agreed. Spouses (and the rest of the family) of firefighters are also special people. Everyday we know it may be our last with our dads, husbands, brothers, sons, grandpas (insert the female version for those who love female firefighters). I think that is why firemen's families are so close, we all go through the same thing and no one else can really understand. It's a kinship like no other. Soon after the riots is when dad began calling at 11:00 pm, just one ring.
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Dfd
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Username: Dfd

Post Number: 163
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 12:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitteacher, how long after the riots ended did your dad get back to working regular shifts.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 767
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 7:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not really sure, I was but a mere newborn...I know they were all working weird schedules (not the usual day on day off day on 3 off...and Kellys were on hold, as were vacations)
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Mtm
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Username: Mtm

Post Number: 139
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 1:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A neighbor who was also DFD had his family lie and say he was up north when they got the call so he wouldn't have to go. He came to check on us a couple of times while Dad was gone but Dad never spoke to him again.

Though I'm older than DetroitTeacher, I don't remember how long it took Dad's schedule to return to normal after the riot.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 768
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 6:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Everyone dad knew reported for duty for the riots. We stayed with my grandparents at Lahser between 5 and 6 mile. To this day, dad won't talk about it much unless he's really pressed for info by either me or my sister.
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Mtm
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Username: Mtm

Post Number: 140
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 6:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My Dad doesn't either. But then, he doesn't talk much about WWII.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 769
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think with our dads working such weird schedules (I learned how to read the Kelly and Super Kelly schedules at a young age), it was hard for anyone to determine what was normal. I never knew when dad would be working (since many guys worked for each other on their Kellys or off days). 24 hour shifts can be grueling on the families, especially with the Kellys thrown in there.
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Hardway
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Username: Hardway

Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 6:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i have a few photos of this fire, i will post them soon.
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Hardway
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Username: Hardway

Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 6:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

it tells me to shrink photos i don't know how to do this. any help
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Admin
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 603
Registered: 09-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 1:16 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Continue to Firehouses 6