  Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 9191 Registered: 10-2003 |
Ccbatson, the Saudis are still negotiating with the Pirates who took the tanker. I suspect they will get the money. Here's the word from the Saudi Royal Mafia: quote: This year alone, Pirates have been payed over $30 million in such ransom money. They are getting away with it! They are apparently not "dead from the minute they boarded the ship"! | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 16129 Registered: 11-2006 |
These pirates are toast, soon. The tanker was carrying 100 million dollars worth of cargo. 3 times the figure you just posted, and enough to cause extreme prejudice in response. | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 3729 Registered: 10-2003 |
Jim, what is the proper staffing level for a ship that size? What would you base it on? So many crewmen per foot? Per ton? quote: And the legal basis for this would be? Where do the weapons come from? Who acquires them, the ship owner? The shipping company? The owner of the cargo? The country of registry? Which crew members can use them? And when? Under what circumstances? Who decides when to fire? Who does their training? How often? Can an armed vessel enter any port? The port of New York? Cadiz? Rotterdam? quote: There's essentially no government in Somalia and if there were, they probably couldn't muster the forces needed to subdue the gangs of pirates. Sometimes rogue members of a country's navy (Indonesia) take part in or support the efforts of the pirates. Also, a country won't always grant permission for a naval vessel to pursue a boat into its territorial waters. Malaysia and Indonesia, bordering the Straits of Malacca where the majority of piracy occurs, will frequently refuse each other's requests. Indonesia is lax to prosecute pirates for fear of starting riots in coastal villages. For various reasons (insurance, retribution, etc) shipping companies are hesitant to pursue charges or even to report a hijacking. If you're interested in the topic, I recommend reading "Dangerous Waters" by Jon Burnett. Seems there are two different approaches to defending ships from pirates: either being proactive by fighting off the attackers as they try to board by using fire hoses, or creating a citadel effect by setting fire hoses to spray at the vulnerable areas of the ship, turning on all the lights (hijacking usually occur at night), and locking the crew inside their quarters. Some believe fighting back is enough of a deterrent and "hiding" inside exposes your ship to other dangers. On the other hand, pirates are getting more heavily armed and less hesitant to kill crew members. Some ships will even carry cash to pay off hijackers. If there's a bright spot to these recent hijackings it's that no accidents have occurred while the ships were diverted. Google the story of the Nagasaki Spirit. It was hijacked in Indonesian waters, the crew was taken off the ship and held for ransom while the boat remained on autopilot. It later collided with the Ocean Blessing; both ships burned, the Ocean Blessing for over a month! The entire crew was killed. | ||
Otter Member Username: Otter Post Number: 392 Registered: 12-2007 |
"They were dead from the minute they boarded the ship, they just didn't know it yet." "These pirates are toast, soon. The tanker was carrying 100 million dollars worth of cargo. 3 times the figure you just posted, and enough to cause extreme prejudice in response." Bats, You're quite the verbal cowboy. Are you going to give them "knowledge" of their death yourself? | ||
Chuckjav Member Username: Chuckjav Post Number: 1134 Registered: 09-2007 |
Quote: Can't understand why ships in that area don't have a specific and highly-enforced "no approach perimeter"; enter it & be blown to bits From Mikem: """And the legal basis for this would be? Where do the weapons come from? Who acquires them, the ship owner? The shipping company? The owner of the cargo? The country of registry? Which crew members can use them? And when? Under what circumstances? Who decides when to fire? Who does their training? How often? Can an armed vessel enter any port? The port of New York? Cadiz? Rotterdam?""" Private Security Force hired by a cooperative: the producer, the shipper, the buyers; a Loss Prevention Team. This Team leaves the ship with their deadly weapons, once the vessel is clear of dangerous waters. This is hardly an innovative concept | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 3731 Registered: 10-2003 |
Ships have been hijacked for decades now. Why do think your solution hasn't been put into practice? | ||
Chuckjav Member Username: Chuckjav Post Number: 1136 Registered: 09-2007 |
Mikem....Precisely - that's what we're saying; how is this happening? Seems as if it's some sort of "inside job". | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 3732 Registered: 10-2003 |
Not an inside job but perhaps the ship owners are making it attractive by willingly paying ransoms. Why? Is it cheaper in the long run? Is your solution too expensive or not as easily implemented as you might think? The hijacking of the Frech luxury yacht earlier in the year and the rapid increase in piracy in this part of the world has attracted the media's attention to this story, but this is not a new phenomena and shipping companies certainly haven't been caught off guard. If increased naval patrols can't be arranged or are ineffective and ransom demands grow then it may be time to consider armed crews or escorted convoys. | ||
Chuckjav Member Username: Chuckjav Post Number: 1138 Registered: 09-2007 |
Mikem....I'm thinking along the lines of "Blackwater" type, private security force: http://www.blackwaterusa.com/ Likely expensive, but not so-much when compared to the cost of victimization at the hands of Pirates. Man....the cost of doing business just keeps going up all the time. PS Maybe "Blackwater" is behind the piracy; sure does promote their services. | ||
Gibran Member Username: Gibran Post Number: 4262 Registered: 02-2007 |
the success of previous operations and the potential for profit could be spurring both ends of the equation... | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 9196 Registered: 10-2003 |
I heard an anti-piracy security company on NPR this morning. They carry no lethal weapons, but have powerful acoustic weapons that can deter pirates from a 1,000 foot distance. All this really does is deflect the problem to the next guy, but basically everything Mikem said above was confirmed by the guy. You do not want people with lethal weapons shooting at ships or people in international waters, because you could very quickly become the "pirate". | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 2900 Registered: 11-2007 |
So basically what some people are saying is, the pirates win and have themselves a pretty good gig to boot. Powerful acoustic weapons ? Hell the kids in my neighborhood have had those in they're cars for years. IMO, the Indian Navy had the right idea. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 9198 Registered: 10-2003 |
The Indian Navy cannot protect every ship on the Indian ocean. They've never had a boarding, so apparently their deterrents work pretty well, while keeping their clients out of legal trouble. | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 16154 Registered: 11-2006 |
100 million dollar cargo, they bit off far more than they can chew...they are toast. | ||
Otter Member Username: Otter Post Number: 394 Registered: 12-2007 |
Oh, I want a front-row seat as Bats toasts the pirates! After he finishes with them he'll toast the ones that have been holding a ship full of armaments for two months! | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 2910 Registered: 11-2007 |
Cc's post #16129 quote: Cc's post #16154 quote: His automaton posting program must be on the fritz again.  | ||
Oladub Member Username: Oladub Post Number: 923 Registered: 08-2006 |
Blackwater now has a ship for hire. Blackwater has "bought and refurbished the McArthur, a 183-ft. ship that boasts... helicopter decks, hospital and multiple support vessel capabilities."" picture and article- http://blog.wired.com/defense/ 2007/10/blackwaters-nav.html | ||
Crash_nyc Member Username: Crash_nyc Post Number: 1110 Registered: 08-2004 |
I've long held the opinion that the reason why the US hasn't done anything about Somalia over the years is because there's no OIL there. Well, here's W's motivation, tailor-made. Go gett'em oil man!! | ||
Otter Member Username: Otter Post Number: 398 Registered: 12-2007 |
I am now picturing Bats with a Stallone snarl, toaster gripped firmly in both hands and a bandoleer of white bread slices draped over his chest and shoulder. He yells "East toast, you bastards!" and gives it to 'em, and does not cut the crusts off. The movie could be called "Batso - First Toast." | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 2913 Registered: 11-2007 |
I'll toast to that, Otter. | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 16177 Registered: 11-2006 |
Does the "b" in "Bigb" stand for brother? Thanks for monitoring my posts. | ||
Isle_of_fun Member Username: Isle_of_fun Post Number: 54 Registered: 10-2008 |
oh my | ||
Oladub Member Username: Oladub Post Number: 926 Registered: 08-2006 |
I don't remember why Clinton had us in Somalia but we did get the "Black Hawk Down" book/movie and Minneapolis got a lot of taxi drivers and airport employees out of that adventure. | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 16190 Registered: 11-2006 |
Keep in mind that it isn't exactly the pious good guys after these pirates. | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 3740 Registered: 10-2003 |
Oops! http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.c om/2008/11/25/pirate-mother-sh ip-or-thai-trawler/?hp | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 9289 Registered: 10-2003 |
That incident also answers the question of why the cargo ships aren't armed. | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 3749 Registered: 10-2003 |
While the Sunday deadline approaches for the Sirius Star hijackers to either be paid or turned to toast, their fellow gang members have "acquired" another tanker - one that even had security guards on board: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t ol/news/world/africa/article52 53731.ece | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 16346 Registered: 11-2006 |
Give it time...this can't go without a vigorous response in order to deter future and accelerated crimes. | ||
Otter Member Username: Otter Post Number: 426 Registered: 12-2007 |
We gotta give Bats more time to strap on his toast bandoleer and motor out to the Arabian sea! !Alejate, bandolero! | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 3752 Registered: 10-2003 |
The "vigorous response" may end up being no more than the female president of an American investment bank negotiating for the release of the captive ships: http://abcnews.go.com/print?id =6343209 quote: |
