Themax Member Username: Themax
Post Number: 834 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 1:03 pm: | |
www.iht.com/articles/2008/09/2 8/business/aig.... I came across this article that puts the epicenter of the world financial mess at AIG's London office, run by an American, Joe Cassano. So is there any business that should be allowed to get so big, its failure endangers the world? |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 5313 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 1:58 pm: | |
There's no such thing as too big to fail - AIG has failed. The question is how to best clean up the mess. |
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23
Post Number: 3976 Registered: 11-2007
| Posted on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 3:14 pm: | |
We have to go back to moderate regulation. And for the life of me, I can't even find the name of the over compensated ex - head of the SEC, on Google. I've spent an hour on there, with every cross reference, and can't find his name ! Oh well, I found this - Say the Chief executive of American Widget gets a $24 million option grant on December 1 of this year, with the options vesting—meaning they may be exercised—over four years. He is not eligible for retirement, perhaps because he joined the company only a few years ago, or perhaps because he has not reached the company’s minimum retirement age of 60. In the summary table, the value of that option will be shown as $500,000. That is because he has worked just one month of the 48 months needed for the option to become fully exercisable. Over at National Widget, American’s main competitor, the chief executive gets an inferior options package on the same day. It is worth $5 million, with the same four-year schedule. But that executive is eligible to retire, although he has no intention of doing so. The compensation summary will show he got a $5 million option. The reality is that one man received options worth nearly five times what the other one was awarded. The appearance is very different. http://mirror.wikileaks.morphi um.info/wikileaks-crs-reports/ RS22583.pdf |
Jiminnm Member Username: Jiminnm
Post Number: 1732 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 4:33 pm: | |
Big, the new SEC chairman is Mary Schapiro. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02 /06/AR2009020602876.html The previous and totally incompetent chair was Christopher Cox. |
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23
Post Number: 3989 Registered: 11-2007
| Posted on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 4:50 pm: | |
No - wish, there is another. |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 5314 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 5:44 pm: | |
Are you thinking of Dick Grasso, the former head of the NYSE who was sued by NY Attorney General Eliot Spitzer over the amount of his compensation? |
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson
Post Number: 18948 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 11:43 pm: | |
Regulation needs to be guided by the simple principle of justice between parties concerned. The government should never be one of the parties concerned, as to be so means that they are partial and cannot be just. |
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23
Post Number: 3991 Registered: 11-2007
| Posted on Sunday, February 22, 2009 - 1:48 pm: | |
Thanks Lilpup, the name escaped me at the time. CEO compensation is out of control, and this story is only the tip of the iceberg.
quote:On 24 May 2004, Grasso was sued by New York state Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, demanding repayment of the majority of a nearly $140 million pay package. Prior to being dismissed, Grasso had been in line to receive an additional $48 million over the $139.5 million he had already received; he was not paid the additional funds. Grasso has sued to gain those funds. According to the suit, Grasso, along with former NYSE director Kenneth Langone, misled the NYSE board about the details of his pay package, beyond that of comparable chief executives. The NYSE was a non-profit institution during Grasso's reign, and as such was governed by State of New York rules governing executive compensation for non-profits. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R ichard_Grasso |
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson
Post Number: 18974 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 12:24 am: | |
If it is a private company, it is up to the controlling entity (owners, board of directors, shareholders). If they want to spend themselves out of business, who is to say they can't? |
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe
Post Number: 2900 Registered: 08-2007
| Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 8:47 am: | |
I'd say we are, because the companies are totally driving our economy, and someone has to make sure they don't drive it into the ground. Too late now, but there is the future to consider. It is so painful to see the same mistakes repeated because prior lessons were forgotten. |
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23
Post Number: 4023 Registered: 11-2007
| Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 8:55 am: | |
quote:If it is a private company No, "The NYSE was a non-profit institution " |
Dougw Member Username: Dougw
Post Number: 1233 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, March 03, 2009 - 11:29 pm: | |
There is enormous pressure from the financial oligarchs to keep AIG afloat, which is basically why our government is continuing to squander billions on this, which is going to run out at some point fairly soon. Goldman Sachs, Credit Suisse and a few other major banks are the counterparties to the credit default swap "insurance" which AIG wrote which is what we are really bailing out. Some choice quotes from investor Jim Rogers on the AIG disaster in this article: http://www.cnbc.com/id/2947631 9
quote:American International Group should be allowed to go bankrupt because keeping it and other sick financials alive on government support risks ruining the US economy, legendary investor Jim Rogers told CNBC Tuesday. AIG, whose $61.66 billion fourth-quarter loss was the largest ever for a US company, received $30 billion more in government funds Monday. The insurer's financial health hasn't improved despite getting as much as $150 billion from the government last year. "Suppose AIG goes bankrupt, it is better that AIG goes bankrupt and we have a horrible two or three years than that the whole US goes bankrupt," Rogers said. "AIG has trillions of dollars of obligations, let them fail, let the courts sort it out and start over. Otherwise we'll never start over." ... Bailing out the banks is going to increase the debt spiral and finally cause the destruction of the world's biggest economy, Rogers said. "I think it's astonishing, they're ruining the US economy, they're ruining the US government, they're ruining the US central bank and they're ruining the US dollar," he said. "You are watching something in front of our eyes, very historically, which is basically the destruction of New York as a financial center and the destruction of America as the world's most powerful country." Japan's economic "lost decade" was caused by trying to bail out the banks, and the West risks running out of money if it doesn't let the bad banks fail now, Rogers warned. ... |
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson
Post Number: 19167 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, March 04, 2009 - 12:08 am: | |
But one example of what will be failed bailouts that weigh the country down like an anchor. |
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 1420 Registered: 05-2007
| Posted on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 6:12 pm: | |
Why are some of the obfuscated credit default swap entities being made whole early? Is it part of the "clean up" process? |
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson
Post Number: 19452 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 12:25 am: | |
Shifting the weight to the taxpayers, that is what is happening. Hardly what should be considered cleaning up. It spares the very entities and practices that got us in this mess in the first place. Barney Frank can go on building a new bubble to explode at some future date. |
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 1425 Registered: 05-2007
| Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 4:42 pm: | |
Why are the entities being made whole early? |
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson
Post Number: 19472 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 11:07 pm: | |
Those that bought, or in this case, insured the false assets that were/are these derivatives. Basically, the bad loans initially endorsed and underwritten by Freddie and Fannie as proxy for the government generated for the purpose of trying to sweep these worthless assets under the rug...the bubble that burst. |
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336
Post Number: 8706 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 4:37 pm: | |
gee, bats, you had it right for about the first 16 words, then you wandered off into the wilderness of your ideology to bring freddie and fannie into the mix, and this after I, and several others, have posted numerous links to articles -- some by staunch conservatives -- that show clearly the Freddie and Fannie are not involved in that in any way, and that, in fact, their troubles are isolated from the rest of the industry because they WEREN'T involved in those dubious dealings. time to put up or shut up |
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson
Post Number: 19497 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 4:39 pm: | |
Freddie and Fannie are the mechanism of the crime...fencing tainted goods (toxic assets). |
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336
Post Number: 8712 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 4:48 pm: | |
sorry, bats, all those posts from months ago proved you wrong on that, and you never even offered up an iota to support yourself then, and you won't now |
Cinderpath Member Username: Cinderpath
Post Number: 960 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 5:48 pm: | |
Hey- Facts won't stop Bats! |
Frank_c Member Username: Frank_c
Post Number: 1139 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 10:47 pm: | |
The trouble here is what was public knowledge a year ago, but no one seems to remember is this unit of AIG, about 400 people is based in London, England...........just try to get the bonuses back........and think of the outrage when people are made aware of this fact.....foreigners with our money OMG! |
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 3485 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 11:48 am: | |
Quote: ".foreigners with our money OMG!" We got from the Chinese OMG. |
20043_stotter Member Username: 20043_stotter
Post Number: 836 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 12:30 pm: | |
Facts confuse Batman, and his trio of Bobbins. |
Oladub Member Username: Oladub
Post Number: 1328 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 1:00 pm: | |
Bats quote, "Freddie and Fannie are the mechanism of the crime...fencing tainted goods (toxic assets)." Bats, Fannie and Freddie are complicit but they are just part of the network of corruption brought to us by prominent Republicans, Democrats, and corporations. AIG is also part of this matrix but not any more so than the politicians that pocketed its contributions. For anyone wanting to do some homework on Fannie and Fredddie, start here with this red pill link. http://solari.com/archive/fred die-fannie-penny-stocks/ It seems that Fannie and Freddie had false books to hide, among other things, black hole spending used by the military. If this corruption isn't attacked, you will all continue chasing your tales imagining that our problems are all the result of either Obama or Bush... take your pick. |
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson
Post Number: 19506 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 4:38 pm: | |
A, if not, the vital piece of the puzzle. to be sure. |
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336
Post Number: 8717 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 4:52 pm: | |
no one here is defending fannie and freddie. they just aren't the cause, even tangentially, of the current melt down. we've challenged you to prove it, provided proof to the contrary etc. etc. you are simply wrong |
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson
Post Number: 19518 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 4:54 pm: | |
Barney, Dodd, Clinton, and Obama for starters...they are, and have been, defending them. Why? It was their fencing operation. |
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72
Post Number: 1331 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 6:43 pm: | |
Sorry Bats, Fannie and Freddie are but less than 20% of the problem. You neo-cons are always quick to point out supposed "liberal's blame" but neglect to include ALL the parties involved for fear it might destroy your case for free market solutions. I now leave you back to your right-wing sound bits... (Message edited by detroitej72 on March 18, 2009) |
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336
Post Number: 8722 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 8:30 am: | |
what part of "no one here" do you fail to understand, Bats? |
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson
Post Number: 19530 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 4:20 pm: | |
Chuckle...Detroitej72 just blew your claim out of the water Rb. Too funny. |
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336
Post Number: 8730 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 4:53 pm: | |
odd, as usual, you don't seem to read the same things everyone else reads |
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson
Post Number: 19639 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 - 5:26 pm: | |
No one defends Freddie and Fannie here? What are you reading when you look at the first line of Detroiej72 #1331? Stop it Rb...I am busting a gut laughing. |
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336
Post Number: 8764 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Thursday, March 26, 2009 - 9:05 am: | |
ok, bats, where is the defense of fannie and freddie in that post, which, for convenience I have pasted below: "Sorry Bats, Fannie and Freddie are but less than 20% of the problem. You neo-cons are always quick to point out supposed "liberal's blame" but neglect to include ALL the parties involved for fear it might destroy your case for free market solutions. I now leave you back to your right-wing sound bits... " saying they are 20% (an large exageration)of the problem is defending them? in what universe? |
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson
Post Number: 19673 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Thursday, March 26, 2009 - 6:04 pm: | |
You are killing me Rb..."less than 20%" not 20%, not more than 15%....what, pray tell, do you think the bias is here? Too funny, and even more so in the way that you keep coming back for more. |
Glowblue Member Username: Glowblue
Post Number: 201 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Friday, March 27, 2009 - 12:47 am: | |
Changes to our laws that must arise out of this crisis are strengthened antitrust laws. It was the giant national banks that brought down the global economy with their greed, while regional and local banks were more sober. Companies that are "too big to fail" should be too big to exist. |
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson
Post Number: 19686 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Friday, March 27, 2009 - 12:50 am: | |
Only if by antitrust, you mean anti monopoly. And only if by anti monopoly, you mean anti coercive monopoly enforced with the threat of violence...as in government monopolies. Hey, wait a minute, aren't they increasing those with all of these bailouts and socialization power grabs? |