  Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 1199 Registered: 05-2007 |
What did Attorney General Eric Holder's speech mean to you? Left me wondering how much more our country can do. Wondering how important are the racial issues to all Americans. And how will Americans choose to address the issues. Personal freedoms, and freedom of association are all part of it. As well as the natural tendency to avoid painful situations and circumstances. On this issue I've been conflicted my entire adult life. Respect for personal liberties cannot be dismissed. Yet many Americans continue to see that racial issues are inadequately resolved, and American society could be so much better for everyone (not just themselves). Some Americans feel it is unrealistic to expect our people to do very much more than we've already done. I wonder how subsequent generations will look upon what we have done, and not done. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 2239 Registered: 12-2005 |
Here's a link to the AG's remarks for those who prefer to read them first before attempting to comment. | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 1206 Registered: 05-2007 |
Question the timing, bully pulpit aspect, and the jarring thrust. Was it an emotional outburst or attack? I doubt it. Meant to scold America? No. The words are penetrating, which easily offends (some). IMO he meant America (black, white - all races) as a nation has traits of this particular cowardice. And with courage Americans together can fix this and be happier - all Americans. Not kumbaya and lets all be BFFs. Cmon, that is not it at all. We all will always have personal preferences. It is about removing artificial barriers that elevate one and lower another within our interactions. Peer pressure of sorts. The part about interactions within the work environment was particularly interesting. And it does happen very much as he described. | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 18900 Registered: 11-2006 |
In the new world of Obama socialist liberal fascism, what happens to the attorney general's office? WHat is the english translation of the word Gestapo? | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 18901 Registered: 11-2006 |
Hmmm..."secret state police"...hmmm. | ||
Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob Post Number: 1786 Registered: 10-2003 |
That "ignore" function is not ready yet, huh? Too bad because I can see ccbatson getting less and less relevant. quote: I'll tell you when you can tell me a term that is used to describe a "hand off" economic/government philosophy. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 7779 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Lase fare"? | ||
Mopardan Member Username: Mopardan Post Number: 150 Registered: 11-2008 |
quote: ...socialist liberal fascism... ============================== ======== WTF??? This statement is non-sensical & contradicts itself at best. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 7781 Registered: 10-2003 |
Welcome to the Official, but unpublished, Glossary of Batsonia Definitions are fluid, as necessary. | ||
Mopardan Member Username: Mopardan Post Number: 151 Registered: 11-2008 |
I guess the next sequence is "Capitalist Conservative Communist"? Geesh! | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 1209 Registered: 05-2007 |
(Ccbatson) "In the new world of Obama socialist liberal fascism, what happens to the attorney general's office? WHat is the english translation of the word Gestapo?" Rather vague insinuations Ccbatson (lacking structure). | ||
Otter Member Username: Otter Post Number: 615 Registered: 12-2007 |
Geez, I don't think Bats could act like a bigger tool if he tried. O. | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 1230 Registered: 05-2007 |
Back to the point of this thread. It meant something to people, but they are not interested in or willing to have open dialogue. It seems a "tired" debate to some. An (in)convenient circumstance of American society. As Attorney General Eric Holder stated so well, 'We know, by "American instinct" and by learned behavior, that certain subjects are off limits and that to explore them risks, at best embarrassment, and, at worst, the questioning of one’s character.' Maybe people are conserving intellectual energy for more vitally important issues. Maybe we are a nation of follow the leader (wherever it may take us). "I have a dream" redux? | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 2401 Registered: 08-2007 |
He made a great speech: reflective and inspiring. Impassioned but not too much. At the end of his speech I was left thinking and ... what? I can remember a series of Attorney Generals that say - or do - things that are above their pay grade. Ashcroft with covering the boobs on statues, Janet Reno appearing on SNL or blowing up Waco God Nuts, Ed Meese's Porn Report, or even Bobby Kennedy going after Hoffa's exotic dancers in Covington, Kentucky ... While some were more serious than others, I've learned not to pay attention to their bully pulpit. Their job to to enforce the laws of the people, not present a position they think is important or more moral. Is Mr. Holder going to establish a coward police? Will they issue tickets for every-time I get cheezed because some black guy is pissing on my fish store? How about every-time I want to slap Monica Conyers around? BSX told me her expressive nature is part of a rich cultural matrix born from 400 years of oppression, so every-time I want to head-butt that piglet I must be a ticket-deserving coward cuz I don't want to discuss anything with that woman. Is that what Eric Holder wants me to worry about? Wow, if that is one of the main things on his plate he is one underworked public servant. This is my discussion with Eric Holder: do your job and stfu. | ||
Alfie1a Member Username: Alfie1a Post Number: 183 Registered: 10-2007 |
Seems to me, the only dialog on race is conducted by those with perpetual grievances. Chastising and making demands while the so called “oppressors” are expected to sit quietly and grovel, or face the wrath of our diversity commissars. How can we have an open discussion when if someone points out an obvious truth, they are risking litigation, public humiliation or even their livelihood to the p.c. bludgeon? A nation of cowards? Those who fought and died during the Civil War and W.W.II certainly were not. I have grown weary of this discussion. History will show us that, throughout history, slavery was an accepted practice the world over. ALL races, at one time or another were subject to this horror. It wasn't until just very recently in the history of mankind that good people risked everything to put an end to this abomination. To put it bluntly, those good people were those of Europe and the United States. White people. You may label me a racist for this post, but if you do, you prove my assertions correct. Before you do label me a racist, think about it. You don't know me or how I interact with others. People, the government is not the answer. It begins with individuals. The political correctness atmosphere fostered by our government creates much resentment and helps to further divide us. Another thing. In some parts of the world, slavery continues without a word of protest. http://issuesviews.blogspot.co m/2008/04/whites-not-allowed.h tml | ||
Alfie1a Member Username: Alfie1a Post Number: 184 Registered: 10-2007 |
Gnome, you summed it up nicely. "This is my discussion with Eric Holder: do your job and stfu." thanks for that | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 5942 Registered: 02-2004 |
In other words, Holder is correct. | ||
Oladub Member Username: Oladub Post Number: 1227 Registered: 08-2006 |
Inter-racial marriage, Asian immigration, and Hispanic immigration will cumulatively transform the discussion. Hispanics now outnumber Blacks. Its not a two player game any more. The demographic changes that AG Holder is concerned about happen gradually. Bloomfield Hills yuppies are probably too cowardly to homestead on vacant lots near public housing. Sometimes, though, its just silly things like the mutually obnoxious music that drifts across fence lines that keep people in their own comfort zones. | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 1232 Registered: 05-2007 |
Thanks for that Alfie1a. I cannot agree, but that is not important. Those convinced such discussion is needed will hopefully do so. (Oladub) "The demographic changes that AG Holder is concerned about happen gradually. Bloomfield Hills yuppies are probably too cowardly to homestead on vacant lots near public housing." What does sentence # 2 have to do with sentence # 1? | ||
Oladub Member Username: Oladub Post Number: 1228 Registered: 08-2006 |
Attorney General Holder expressed his concern that integration wasn't happening fast enough and called even the reluctance to talk about it cowardly but I probably should have broken the response into separate paragraphs. Now I'm going to duck before anyone notices my 34 word run-on sentence. One possibility first; he could speed things up by locating low cost housing in Bloomfield Hills. | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 1234 Registered: 05-2007 |
Oladub, you have a sense of humor (at least to me). Oh, and you are cowardly for ducking about the run-on (just kidding). Please don't sick the DYes police on me for that joking comment  My relatives in Bloomfield Hills would probably like to take you aside and have a discrete talk with you explaining the virtues of NIMBY. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 6169 Registered: 08-2004 |
quote: The German word Gestapo and the Spanish variation "Guantanamo" come from an ancient Sanskrit word that means "to get rid of"... | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 18965 Registered: 11-2006 |
Mopardon, read Jonah Goldberg's book "liberal fascism" and some of the historic essays of prior fascists (ie Mussolini, and Adolf ••••••••••• the phrase I used makes scary sense. | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 18966 Registered: 11-2006 |
What the?? Something bleeps out the name of a certain German leader whose name rhymes with whitler now? | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 1239 Registered: 05-2007 |
Probably a bot Ccbatson. | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 18969 Registered: 11-2006 |
Yes, but I have seen and typed the name before, and not that long ago. | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 8542 Registered: 02-2007 |
reductio ad hitlerum, yet again, from bats | ||
Mopardan Member Username: Mopardan Post Number: 169 Registered: 11-2008 |
CC, I'll have to check it out when I get a chance. Currently I'm re-reading "Blood, Tears and Folly" by Len Deighton. It's one of the better books I've seen on WWII & pretty thought provoking. If you get an opportunity, look it over. Here's a link giving a synopsis of it. http://search.barnesandnoble.c om/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp? r=1&ISBN=9780060925574&ourl=Bl ood%2DTears%2Dand%2DFolly%2DAn %2DObjective%2DLook%2Dat%2DWor ld%2DWar%2DII%2FLen%2DDeighton Back at work after being taking some time off last week. Got the landscape project about halfway finished so I'll be spending the next several evenings trying to complete it. Gotta luv it! | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 1244 Registered: 05-2007 |
"Is Mr. Holder going to establish a coward police? Will they issue tickets for every-time I get cheezed because some black guy is pissing on my fish store? How about every-time I want to slap Monica Conyers around? BSX told me her expressive nature is part of a rich cultural matrix born from 400 years of oppression, so every-time I want to head-butt that piglet I must be a ticket-deserving coward cuz I don't want to discuss anything with that woman." There is no indication of a coward police that I've heard of. Different views and even accusations will sometimes occur as we all know full well. That is sometimes part of the problem. And of course, when people run out of ideas, harsh language, deflection, ignorance or red herrings (avoidance or obfuscation) may come out. "Is that what Eric Holder wants me to worry about?" Not sure at all that Attorney General Eric Holder wants people to "worry" about this. Rather consider worth. (Message edited by vetalalumni on February 23, 2009) | ||
Mopardan Member Username: Mopardan Post Number: 170 Registered: 11-2008 |
Quote: Extreme views and accusations will sometimes occur as we all know full well. That is sometimes part of the problem. ============================== ================ I agree with you there Vet. Most answers lie in the middle, but I won't beat that horse to death any more than I have to. If you go back a bit in our recent history, think about how immigrants were viewed with suspicion, even though the majority were from European countries. They didn't care for each other either...Italians hated Poles who hated Germans & so on. They stuck to their ethnic parts of town & didn't like "outsiders" coming in. And don't forget about religion either as that played a huge role as well. WWI & WWII forced a lot of these people out of their ethnic enclaves into a completely different world forcing them to tolerate each other as well as working together. Black units, while often attached to white divisions or regiments were still segregated. Korea & Vietnam forced whites & blacks together like never before. Not without incident or 100% tolerance mind you; but in the field & under combat conditions, you suddenly forget what color the guy is next to you as your life may depend on him & vice-versa. My time in the active duty military & reserves has exposed me to working with people from different parts of the country as well as different skin color. Occasionally the issue of race comes up; it could be a learning experience such as listening to a black co-worker from a small town in North Carolina, while other times it could nearly erupt into a fight. Different experiences means different perspectives & life lessons. Personally I believe Holder went a little overboard on the cowardly remarks, but at the same time, many people of all races probably don't find it an easy subject to bring up, let alone talk about in depth; uncomfortable is more like it. Just my two cents. |
