  Oladub Member Username: Oladub Post Number: 1143 Registered: 08-2006 |
Gnome, So far, you have been provided a video of Michael Steele supporting the Iraq war and candidates that supported it, and a video of Hannity endorsing of Michael Steele. But you still say, "Mike Steele ain't no neo-con, despite how many secret air-kisses he gets from Sean Hannity." If two videos of Mr. Steele supporting and being supported by neocons is not enough reason to disapprove of him. Here is a third for anyone who is not a Saul Anuzis fan. "Steele reassures GOP's right flank" "The former Maryland lieutenant governor has already told one of his chief rivals, conservative businessman and former Michigan Republican Party Chairman Saul Anuzis, that there will be a place for him in helping to run the RNC under Mr. Steele's chairmanship." Saul Anuzis praised Senator McCain's hawkish anti-Iran speech at Mackinaw Island. It's like trying to re-build the Republican Party around the ghost of McCain. Let's see how that works. http://washingtontimes.com/new s/2009/feb/01/steele-reassures -gops-right-flank/ February 1, 2009 | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 1067 Registered: 05-2007 |
One certainty is that Steele, like Palin, is garnering attention for the GOP. Part of the plan. | ||
Otter Member Username: Otter Post Number: 532 Registered: 12-2007 |
<rolls> Obviously this completely transforms the Republican party. | ||
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 1163 Registered: 05-2006 |
But the thing I don't understand the most is why so many here are busting Steele's balls. Just look at it from your own self-interest. The Karl Rove/GWB/Cheney Neo-con philosophy has hit a brick wall. Just look at the election. That old message is not getting much love. ------------------------------ -------------------- That is the best statement on this thread yet. It is a good move on the Republican's part to move past the failed policies of the neo-cons.(this current financial meltdown rests soly on their doorstep) By chosing someone moderate like Steele, perhaps they are taking the first step in becoming more in line with mainstream America. | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 18503 Registered: 11-2006 |
So naive...the likelihood of big losses to an incumbent party after a second term during an economic downturn is why the election turned out as it did...not a mandate. Especially when said downturn (now large recession) is clearly the result of liberal policies (ie Frank/Dodd and Freddie/Fannie). | ||
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 1167 Registered: 05-2006 |
Too bad Bats fails to comprehend the recession is a direct result of his failed free market, anti regulation policies of the past 28 years.(including 8 years of Clinton's Republican-Light) | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 18510 Registered: 11-2006 |
Why don't you explain exactly how that is? I, on the other hand have explained how the CRA/Freddie/Fannie etc have caused the crisis so many times and in so much depth that the libs on this site think I am a broken record. They fail to understand that the only reason I keep saying it is that these same learning disabled libs keep spewing comments the one Detroitej72 just made. | ||
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 1169 Registered: 05-2006 |
Ok, let me explain to you slowly, in simple terms Bats... Trickle down economics have failed. That, along with deregulation cause the 'free market' to run amuck. Since the CEO's have no morals and no one to watch over them, they scammed the public. Add a tool like Bush giving them billons of tax payer's dollars and you have the failer of the free market. You and the chicken littles of the right shouting that Frank and Dodd are the cause are just blaming the firemen for not saving the burning house in time. Now do you understand??? | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 18520 Registered: 11-2006 |
Trickle down/free market principles is the only thing that prevented this catastrophe and worse from happening long ago. How do you "give" Billions to CEOs when it is really a matter of not stealing it from them in the first place? Furthermore, it is really stealing from the consumer, as any freshman Econ 101 flunky knows that corporate taxes are always passed on to the consumer. The only "watching over" that must be done comes in the form of laws that insure justice to all parties in any contractual relation. In this dynamic, government should have no interest of its' own whatever. Now, do you understand? If not, please refer to a basic economics text for a desperately needed lesson. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 6502 Registered: 12-2005 |
quote:Or a success if its intent was to do this damage we've recently seen. Conservatives and other criminals hate government because that's where their archenemies, law enforcement and justice, reside. They do like to make their objections sound legitimate though.  | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 7667 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Like a goldfish in a bowl describing the ocean. | ||
Oladub Member Username: Oladub Post Number: 1152 Registered: 08-2006 |
Jimaz post# 6502 - "Conservatives and other criminals hate government because that's where their archenemies, law enforcement and justice, reside." Note: Conservatives are criminals. Rudolph Joseph Rummel teaches political science at the University of Hawaii. He has spent his career assembling data on collective violence and war with a view toward helping their resolution or elimination. Rummel coined the term democide for murder by government, his research claiming that six times as many people died of democide during the 20th century than in all that century's wars combined. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R ._J._Rummel “As the arbitrary power of a regime increases massively…as we move from democratic through authoritarian to totalitarian regimes, the amount of killing jumps by huge multiples.” -R.J. Rummel Government measure is one basic measure of a government's power. Rummel is saying that the amount of arbitrary power a government is given, or it takes, determines its ruthlessness. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 6504 Registered: 12-2005 |
The damage that has been done to American citizens was done intentionally to them by the parasitic saboteurs in power. Whether we choose to label those saboteurs "government" or "corporatists" is a semantical diversion. They're the same. Each enables the other. | ||
Oladub Member Username: Oladub Post Number: 1154 Registered: 08-2006 |
Jimaz, I basically agree with you. I choose "corporatist" because it recognizes collusion between businesses and corporate interests. I just came across an interesting related tidbit. " The government contractor leading the War on Drugs strategy for U.S. aid to Peru, Colombia and Bolivia was the same contractor in charge of knowledge management for HUD enforcement. This Washington-Wall Street game was a global game. The peasant women of Latin America were up against the same financial pirates and business model as the people in South Central Los Angeles, West Philadelphia, Baltimore and the South Bronx." -Katherine Austin Fitts http://solari.com/blog/?p=2058 | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 6505 Registered: 12-2005 |
Oladub, may I ask, what is your position on the opposition against government, law enforcement and justice, that is shared by conservatives and other criminals alike? (Message edited by Jimaz on February 05, 2009) | ||
Oladub Member Username: Oladub Post Number: 1155 Registered: 08-2006 |
I suppose that Thomas Jefferson, Paine, Franklin, and the rest were considered to be criminals by the government of their day. Whether they were conservatives or another phylum of criminals is open to debate. They settled on the American Declaration of Independence which says the reason (singular) for government is to protect such inherent Creator given rights such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. This sounds too preachy but the anti-Federalists were not trying to make government bigger than necessary. I'm not sure what you mean by conservative. I'm more libertarian than conservative as conservative include neocons or those who would mandate their religious precepts. They are mostly statists as are Democrats. I disagree that most conservatives want less government. Under Bush, government spending and control skyrocketed. In a time when most Americans seem to want a Santa government, a limited government message is difficult to sell. Worse, I expect that as the economy gets worse, Americans will not understand, or want to understand, the causes and will, instead, demand economic fascism (corporatism). It won't be called that of course. | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 1082 Registered: 05-2007 |
Doubtful you will see Steele warming up to Coulter like Jimmie Walker - but you never know. | ||
Larryinflorida Member Username: Larryinflorida Post Number: 3410 Registered: 02-2007 |
Oladub, too many years of GOP "You're on your own" has made these remedial and temporary steps required. We went too far in one direction, and now we need to get back to the middle, which is where we should have been. | ||
Oladub Member Username: Oladub Post Number: 1157 Registered: 08-2006 |
Larry, We are still broke. Throwing money we don't have at a problem is an impossible act of frustration like covering the mirror with a towel when I don't like what I see. The Republicans did blow a lot of money in Iraq on some sort of undefined quest but the Iraq war has not cost us as much as either bailout. Spending is spending whether by Democrats or Republicans. The middle of Democrat and Republican spending is just the sum of the two. Clinton's former comptroller general says that we cannot even afford to keep up Social Security and Medicare if we do not get rid of the military. That was before the bailouts. Bush Sr's Assistant Secretary of Housing at HUD says between $4-10B of federal money has 'disappeared'. We are broke and mired in corporatist corruption. That was before Timmy the tax cheat took over Treasury. Getting back to some middle should mean something else besides more of the same. | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 8417 Registered: 02-2007 |
"the Iraq war has not cost us as much as either bailout" hmmm...latest estimate puts it at 1.2 trillion when you include all the costs like replacing equipment, long-term care for wounded vets, etc. add to that the Bushy give-aways to their wealthy friends -- that also cost us almost a trillion | ||
Larryinflorida Member Username: Larryinflorida Post Number: 3411 Registered: 02-2007 |
Giving Clinton full credit for the NAFTA debacle, the Bush years were nothing but closing of plants and McDonald's jobs being reclassified on cooked statistics as "manufacturing". This trend to decimate the middle class, while rallying for their vote and loyalty always struck me as curious. Add the mortgage crisis to that and here we are. Perfect Storm of free-market implosion. | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 18526 Registered: 11-2006 |
Jimaz, I must volunteer an answer. Conservatives, and all citizens, should oppose government that illegally exceeds its' constitutionally limited powers. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 7677 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Bash Barak, excuse bankers?"  | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 18535 Registered: 11-2006 |
Bash them both...so long as the bankers in question are the ones that begged for and accepted bailouts. | ||
Oladub Member Username: Oladub Post Number: 1158 Registered: 08-2006 |
Larry, This was the number I was using. It is about $225,000,000,000 less than the Bush bailout which, in turn, is smaller than Obama's non-stimulation package. $594,425,058,689 = Cost of Iraq War as of this moment. http://www.nationalpriorities. org/costofwar_home Bush was no good - no debate there. Bush and Clinton both supported the flow of jobs out of this country and tolerated an excessive flow of labor into this country. They broke labor. | ||
Larryinflorida Member Username: Larryinflorida Post Number: 3412 Registered: 02-2007 |
Yeah, well, one more facet of the Triad of Doom. We could have payed for the War(s), if the rest stayed on track. Let that be a lesson to future leaders: Start the war after you wreck the economy, not before. Wars serve to boost it back better that way, by giving us things to manufacture again. Why hell, Ford was making a B-24 an hour! There's your stimulus, eh? I can't wait. | ||
Flanders_field Member Username: Flanders_field Post Number: 1614 Registered: 01-2008 |
quote: I have to wonder if their calculations of the cost of the | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 1083 Registered: 05-2007 |
The following is a sixfold increase in cost (lives). Recent spate of Army soldier suicides (24 in January 2009 - six times as many as killed themselves in January 2008). (Message edited by vetalalumni on February 06, 2009) | ||
Oladub Member Username: Oladub Post Number: 1159 Registered: 08-2006 |
Flanders, No that is what has been spent so far. It does not include long term care, pensions and other expenses not yet incurred. Similarly, the bailouts do not include the future cost of interest on the approximately $1,725T cost of the two bailouts. At 4% interest, the added interest will be about $69,000,000,000 the first year or an extra $690 for every non-governmental wage earner. | ||
Flanders_field Member Username: Flanders_field Post Number: 1705 Registered: 01-2008 |
"Newly elected Republican National Committee Chairman Michael S. Steele plans an “off the hook” public relations offensive to attract younger voters, especially blacks and Hispanics, by applying the party's principles to “urban-suburban hip-hop settings." "The RNC's first black chairman will “surprise everyone” when updating the party's image using the Internet and advertisements on radio, on television and in print, he told The Washington Times" Steele: GOP needs 'hip-hop' makeover    Mitch McConnell, poppin' and lockin'!! Arlen Specter, droppin' mad stylez!! John Boehner, sportin' the bling bling grill!! Olympia Snowe, backin' that azz up!! |
