 
Otter
Member
Username: Otter
Post Number: 621
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 12:10 pm: |    |
Batman,
This "socialist liberal fascism" that you talk about is fascinating for its apparent ability to reconcile three largely mutually contradictory systems into one. Why don't you explain this remarkable system for us?
O. |
Jimaz
Member
Username: Jimaz
Post Number: 6655
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 12:25 pm: | |
quote:Mopardon, read Jonah Goldberg's book "liberal fascism" and some of the historic essays of prior fascists (ie Mussolini, and Adolf HitIer, and the phrase I used makes scary sense. That's odd. It doesn't censor the words when I type it.  |
Larryinflorida
Member
Username: Larryinflorida
Post Number: 3459
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 5:20 pm: | |
It is cowardly to not discuss race more often.
But the word "cowardly", coming from an uppity new Black AG has some of you quite rattled and concerned for the future attitudes by Government in this country on such matters..
what's next, Redd Foxx day?
I'd vote for that, actually.
As long as there are those who focus on our differences instead of our similarities, there will be tension and distrust.
"Can't you see? it's so Obvious!" |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 1249
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 6:54 pm: | |
Well said Larryinflorida. |
Alfie1a
Member
Username: Alfie1a
Post Number: 192
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 7:06 pm: | |
I'd go for a Redd Foxx day too. |
Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson
Post Number: 18984
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 10:55 pm: | |
Mopardon, I think you will be very enlightened by Goldberg's book. Let us know. |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 1262
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 12:53 am: | |
We all come from different backgrounds which shape our thoughts. Nothing new there. New thoughts and ideas address outdated and inefficient ones. A market of ideas if you will. As they say, don't hate, participate.
What is new unfortunately, is open honest discussion on topics historically shunned for the aforementioned reasons. Some people think they will lose something if progress is made in this area. Why are we so consumed with a win-lose mentality here? With an increase in fairness, will someone suffer? How so? |
Rb336
Member
Username: Rb336
Post Number: 8555
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 9:06 am: | |
Goldberg is an intellectual midget whose only claim to fame is his mommy and pandering to right--wing extremists. He has never published anything of any intellectual merit in his life. his book is, as usual, nothing but a collection of circle-jerk citations. his first chapter on mussolini was so factually incorrect (for one thing, he jailed, tortured and executed leaders of organized labor) that I started laughing out loud in the book store within two minutes of picking it up |
Mopardan
Member
Username: Mopardan
Post Number: 177
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 9:58 am: | |
Quote:
Mopardon, I think you will be very enlightened by Goldberg's book. Let us know.
============================== ==================
"Enlightened" as in liberating my mind? Opening up my mind to new ideas? Isn't that a "liberal" thing?
Sorry, I just couldn't let that one slide by without a comment. ;-)
Anyway, I'm about to die in a meeting that starts in 2mins...I can hardly wait. |
Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson
Post Number: 19015
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 5:39 pm: | |
Definitely not a liberal thing if by liberal you mean Democrats (socialist collectivist) and their ilk.
Conservatism, is at its' core, about rational thought. It is therefore very open minded to discovering/learning truths. It is not open minded to liberal emotionally driven ideologies that demonstrate no common sense or rational thought whatsoever. |
East_detroit
Member
Username: East_detroit
Post Number: 1989
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 6:18 pm: | |
Those definitions are incorrect. Also, the placement of the apostrophe was incorrect. Possessive pronouns are not given the apostrophe. |
Detroitej72
Member
Username: Detroitej72
Post Number: 1251
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 8:38 pm: | |
Conservatism, is at its' core, about rational thought.
------------------------------ --------------------
Actually most conservative talking heads spew some of the most irrational thoughts on the air. Conservative thought, by nature, is affraid of
change.
The conservative neo-con agenda is based on trumping up people's fears and emotions. Think back to Sarah Palin catering to the lowest denominator at her rallies by playing (1. the Muslim card, (2. the terrorist card. Then she giggled with glee as idiots in the crowd shouted to lynch or kill Obama.
That sure isn't what would be called 'rational thought' by anyone's language. |
Mopardan
Member
Username: Mopardan
Post Number: 181
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 7:35 am: | |
Quote:
The conservative neo-con agenda is based on trumping up people's fears and emotions. Think back to Sarah Palin catering to the lowest denominator at her rallies by playing (1. the Muslim card, (2. the terrorist card. Then she giggled with glee as idiots in the crowd shouted to lynch or kill Obama.
============================== ===================
A perfect example of why my wife & her relatives have left the GOP. If the Republicans want to bring them back, they've got to get away from these characters who play strictly to their base; a base which appears to be more anti-intellectual & less pragmatic as time goes on. Right now the most powerful Republican senators are Snowe, Collins & Specter because they're in a position to garner more favors, IE "pork", from the Democrats. If the GOP doesn't reassess & reorganize itself, they'll pretty much be relegated to portions of the south. |
Rb336
Member
Username: Rb336
Post Number: 8575
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 12:33 pm: | |
"Conservatism, is at its' core, about rational thought. It is therefore very open minded to discovering/learning truths. It is not open minded to liberal emotionally driven ideologies that demonstrate no common sense or rational thought whatsoever."
sorry, just had to quote it in its entirety to laugh at the absurdity of it, the childish black-and-white "conservative = rational, liberal=emotional" false dichotomy, the absurdity of the "It is therefore very open minded to discovering/learning truths" comment, especially given his own emotional repudiation of facts (without using facts, just a childish "i'm right, your wrong" whine) anytime they contradict his ideology |
Otter
Member
Username: Otter
Post Number: 627
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 12:47 pm: | |
So, Bats,
Since you are such a big thinker, what is the meaning of this "socialist liberal fascism" thing?
O. |
Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson
Post Number: 19033
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 5:10 pm: | |
Socialist=controlling the means of production. A step away from communism, a collective society that shuns all individuality.
Liberal=Big government to take care (and have control over) everything in the lives of the citizens.
Fascism=collectivism with "the state" as the object of all efforts, also reviles individualism. |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 1274
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 5:21 pm: | |
Murdoch's skillful economic pseudo apology (the 2nd one) is an example of simply agreeing to disagree and skirt the issue. Americans are very adept at this seemingly prudent tactic. A shying away from a difficulty. |
Rb336
Member
Username: Rb336
Post Number: 8587
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2009 - 10:11 am: | |
the first part of Bats' socialism definition is correct. still hasn't shown how Obama is a "socialist." the second part, "a collective society that shuns all individuality." is pure bull from someone who has probably never been to another country unless he stayed in isolated "tourist zones"
The definition of liberal is just 100% wrong
the last part of the definition of fascism is correct, but it is NOT collectivism, it is the final embodiment of private sector/government collaboration specifically designed to put the working classes under their thumbs, which is why the first target of every fascist government in history is the trade unions, and by targeting OUR unions, it is why the republicans and other right-wing extremists can correctly be said to be veering toward fascism. if bats had actually read the mussolini works I have linked to in the past, he would realize that. |
Sarge
Member
Username: Sarge
Post Number: 882
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2009 - 2:00 pm: | |
quote:Conservatism, is at its' core, about rational thought.
Then why are many of those who identify themselves as conservative on this forum so profoundly irrational? |
Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson
Post Number: 19042
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2009 - 3:32 pm: | |
Socialists aren't intent on putting everyone (including, and most specifically, the working class) under government control Rb?/
You need to think outside of the box Rb. |
Rb336
Member
Username: Rb336
Post Number: 8593
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2009 - 4:47 pm: | |
no, bats, they aren't. perhaps if you could take of the huge blinders of your preconceived notions, you could possibly glimpse truth rater than hyperbole |
Otter
Member
Username: Otter
Post Number: 640
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2009 - 7:44 pm: | |
Bats,
you're correct as to what socialism is, but you haven't a clue about fascism or liberalism, and you tend to come across as a clueless tool. It's easy to be certain about what you think when you start with a conclusion and form everything you see to fit it.
O. |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 1308
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 11:38 am: | |
The silence regarding this thread's initial topic is deafening. |
Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson
Post Number: 19103
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 1:19 pm: | |
Read Jonah Goldberg's book, "Liberal Fascism" and follow the indisputable logic of the concepts before dismissing these definitions.
Not just because you will see that I am right, much more importantly so that you can understand Obama and his ilk as they lead us into misery. This realization is not a matter of "if", but "when" you (and we) see the errors of American (and liberal, fascist) socialism. Only then can we correct the errors. |
Gibran
Member
Username: Gibran
Post Number: 4555
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 2:01 pm: | |
As if Bush and His "ilk" lead us to the promised land...the talking points of Rush played out in the minds of so many..leads us to misery and fear that has caused the nation to act and label their fellow Americans as if they are out to destroy their own homes...on the other side it's the message that our great nation can be built on social justice and reaching out to the people who need help so they can ultimately contribute is the greater good that will be the most correct one. We have tried the politics of hate and it really wasn't a good fit..so as Rush increased his Hope for the failure of our country.. I would rather see a leader who sees that accountability is really how we treat others who pay taxes and those who desire to have the chance to.
The minority of those who play the system only play themselves...they dwell in apathy..but the hard working mom with three children who dream for a better future for their children ...need a hand up and see how hard they work...I know that there are more people who really need the system for a short period of time than those who abuse it...it's a good talking point for an over indulged hypocrite to rally people who fear...and preach a brand of patriotism that isn't extended equally to all... |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 1316
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 3:08 pm: | |
Ward Connerly speaking at CPAC made several interesting references to cowardice. |
Gibran
Member
Username: Gibran
Post Number: 4556
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 3:53 pm: | |
In religion some of those conservatives CC talks about still believe that Noah forgot to put the dinosaurs on board..that's really logical thinking...sorry but conservatism that reflected Eisenhower and Ford has left the building...we are starting to see Palin and Rush as the standard bearers and those who are left over from the Reagan years...and that's not logical it's actually the opposite of it. |
Gibran
Member
Username: Gibran
Post Number: 4557
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 5:46 pm: | |
In fact it is a classic dodge to ignore the reality of the thread and throw a label to take us off track..well played...with the sociologist dodge.
The reality is that reading Dr. West or other social scientists we see that it (race-although an antiquated and segregated term) still matters as long as it is the elephant in the room for many...
just look at the hidden double meanings of "pulling yourself up"... or demeaning welfare mothers...or other references that could be used to generalize.
There is some much diversity in diversity and the understanding of the contributions of many in our journey is needed to truly be a melting-pot...many people see history from the point of view of the writers who are invested in protecting a mythology or point of view that it was only the winners that make it reality...not just for the history of our collective people but for all...
Many (not all) use the euro-centric understandings of life in general and then pass judgement on others who are different. I agree with larry, veta and Rb et al( not unusual for me)...this is still relevant and if it is continues to wound people, then it still needs dialog about. That does goes both ways...like Dr. Williams a sociologist points out in the study of the tragic deaths and high incarceration rates of Black Youths that the genocide in our own cities needs to stop from within the community and with real opportunity and help from outside.
As long as we don't have realistic and open dialog about relationship with our fellow citizens; Issues and concerns like the Muslim fear factor and Immigration , even a fair peace for the middle-east become shaped for many by a few...
We can lose our voices to the likes of Rush, Goldberg and Krauthammer...people who claim to speak for the America we love...but are creating the America of a few. |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 1322
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 8:40 pm: | |
Romney at CPAC stated America has never been and never will be a nation of cowards. Romney knew it would inspire a significant reaction among the CPAC attendees and some C-SPAN viewers at home. Romney also likely knew it would NOT invoke the particular courage Attorney General Eric Holder noted has long been absent. This tactic by Romney was preaching to his own choir and not at all inclusive or encouraging. |
Gibran
Member
Username: Gibran
Post Number: 4560
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 9:25 pm: | |
same old story from the extreme right whether Palin or Romney..take a word twist it into their fear based agenda and see how long it takes for the perpetrators of empty rhetoric to spin...emotion charged speech for an audiance ready for raw meat... |