  1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 1140 Registered: 08-2008 |
If you'd like to see a well researched accounting of how we were put in this historically unprecedented, monumentous, financial HOLE we're in, watch Frontline's PBS documentary: Ten Trillion and Counting. Those same people who preach morals, faith and responsibilty were slippping up juuuuust a weee little bit (sarcasm amd facetiousness intended). | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 2530 Registered: 08-2007 |
it was an overwhelmingly depressing look into the abiss we call the Federal Budget. Most Frontline pieces are sobering, this one was razor-to-wrist inducing. According to the report we each owe $35,000 will increase to $70,000 if everything goes as planned. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 3516 Registered: 02-2007 |
This country has been ripped off. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3728 Registered: 07-2004 |
After they've bankrupted the country by giving our money away the the very wealthiest, now we'll hear people in government say for the next century, "We can't afford costly social programs!" "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies . . . If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] . . . will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered . . . The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." --Thomas Jefferson in "The Debate Over the Recharter of the Bank Bill," 1809 | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 4281 Registered: 11-2007 |
Banking greed hits Michigan. Here's part of the problem, reported out of Flint, one of our hardest hit areas economically. 3/25/2009, 7:35 a.m. EDT The Associated Press quote: © 2009 Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. MLIVE | ||
Firstandten Member Username: Firstandten Post Number: 801 Registered: 05-2006 |
I don't generally link to either liberal or conservative sites, but I think this is a interesting perpective on how our debt got to the point it has gotten. Thom Hartmann states: "But just as it's inconvenient to hold the defense contractors and the senior politicians responsible for the Iraq debacle, and instead blame it on Lynndie England, our sound-bite corporate media prefer to focus on a few IAG traders, instead of the people who made what they did both possible and legal. Instead of passing a 90 percent tax that is limited to the traders, let's be realistic. Ever since Ronald Reagan rolled back the top marginal income tax rate on millionaires and billionaires from 74 percent to 29 percent, our government has been disastrously in debt, sliding deeper each and every year (the so-called "Clinton surplus" was a mirage created with phony numbers, although it was still a hell of a lot better than what we have now). David Stockman bragged, back during the Reagan administration, that the goal of Republicans was to rack up such a huge federal debt that Democrats would never be able to push forward the "socialist" programs that Americans want, like stable Social Security and single-payer national health care. He called it "starving the beast." Grover Norquist suggested it would force government to become so small it could be "drowned in a bathtub," leaving the corporations in charge. George W. Bush actually, finally, made it happen. Thus here we are, ten-plus trillion dollars in debt, and trying to blame our problems on Lynndie England and a few traders at AIG. " http://www.commondreams.org/vi ew/2009/03/23 Hartmann also talks about the two Santa Claus theory which plays in to our current situation with the Federal debt. http://www.commondreams.org/vi ew/2009/01/26-0 We now have such a structural debt problem any investment(socialism for some) made to strenghten the social safety net becomes politically dicey. It seems that "starving the beast" does work http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S tarve_the_beast | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3731 Registered: 07-2004 |
Kind of reminds me of some crazy family where the dad goes deep into credit card debt buying guns, trucks, jet skis and hunting land, then uses the debt to rationalize not feeding his family. "What are you? Freeloaders? Get a job so we can pay down this debt responsibly!" | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 2848 Registered: 10-2003 |
The problem now is that the gov't is throwing money around with no benchmark. The chimp created an enormous deficit and now Obama is keeping it going. Folks, get ready for some incredible inflation in the next few years. | ||
Croweblack Member Username: Croweblack Post Number: 95 Registered: 02-2007 |
"Ever since Ronald Reagan rolled back the top marginal income tax rate on millionaires and billionaires from 74 percent to 29 percent, " I think everybody here, even the most liberal, would have to agree that 74 percent is high. Remember that 74% is just the feds it does not take into account state taxes as well make a million for busting your ass the feds take 740,000 of it and if you lived in Michigan Jenny would take at least 10% more-- talk about stifling creativity!! | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 4613 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Or not: House Democrats Slash More Than $100B From Obama's Plan http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03 /25/AR2009032501368.html quote: | ||
Firstandten Member Username: Firstandten Post Number: 803 Registered: 05-2006 |
Croweblack not really !! "Republican President Dwight D. Eisenhower embraced a 91 percent top marginal tax rate on millionaires and billionaires and strong regulation of banks, including the STET tax, and the nation prospered" | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 19641 Registered: 11-2006 |
Told you so liberals...less government now. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 2534 Registered: 08-2007 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R ecession_of_1958 http://www.marxists.org/histor y/etol/writers/vance/1958/03/r ecession.htm http://gidedicated.com/stories /02072008/opi_opinion07.shtml http://www.dol.gov/oasam/progr ams/history/dolchp05.htm For closer look at the Recession of 1958. The best thing about that Recession was that it kept 100,000 dead people in Chicago from voting for Nixon. | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 8757 Registered: 02-2007 |
The country was, contrary to Republican propaganda and Bats, in far better shape, grew at a faster rate and had a WAY healthier middle class when we had those 74 and 91 % top marginal rates. coincidentally, those were also the years we had the strongest labor unions | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 19642 Registered: 11-2006 |
Sooo wrong again Rb. We were on the road to socialist pergatory then...and now. | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 8759 Registered: 02-2007 |
sorry bats, last time we had this conversation, I posted links to research supporting my position. now it is your turn. oh, that is right, there isn't any | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 19645 Registered: 11-2006 |
You are cherry picking data by comparing a horrible economic time frame (today), to a nearly horrible time frame(1974). Amateurish at best Rb. Both disasters, regardless of which is worst, are the result of liberal socialist policies. | ||
Gibran Member Username: Gibran Post Number: 4626 Registered: 02-2007 |
gotta to love yah..at least you are consistent...wrong  but consistent | ||
Firstandten Member Username: Firstandten Post Number: 804 Registered: 05-2006 |
Detroitnerd Ravi Batra discusses the very thing you wrote in your last post. Its about the wage-productively gap and the use of consumer debt. However its a little more involved than just getting a job. http://www.truthout.org/031609 A | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 19646 Registered: 11-2006 |
Batra also described Reagan as a socialist....next. | ||
Firstandten Member Username: Firstandten Post Number: 805 Registered: 05-2006 |
"Socialism" is a pejorative term in American politics and needs to be carefully examined. It usually refers to increased government control over the economy, or policies that promote the redistribution of wealth. There is no doubt that President Obama's economic measures, passed and proposed, will raise tax rates on the richest Americans to pay for increased government funding of health care, green energy and education. So the new president is indeed a redistributionist, but so was Ronald Reagan, except that Obama's plans will transfer wealth from the rich to the poor, whereas Reagan's bills transferred wealth from the poor and the middle class to the opulent. In fact, Obama's measures are puny, whereas Reagan's were massive. If the Democrat is a "small" socialist, Reagan was the Great American Socialist." quote Ravi Batra Bats is this statement true ? If not, why not ? | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 19649 Registered: 11-2006 |
It is not redistribution to allow the producers to keep more of what they produce. This is a concept that my third grader gets....why don't liberals? | ||
Glowblue Member Username: Glowblue Post Number: 198 Registered: 09-2008 |
quote: widdle babby doesn't understand how marginal tax rates work | ||
Mcp001 Member Username: Mcp001 Post Number: 1574 Registered: 11-2003 |
$10-Trillion? Where have they been? That number has long since jumped up from that amount!. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 6843 Registered: 12-2005 |
You can watch the whole Frontline video here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/ frontline/tentrillion/ | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 1143 Registered: 08-2008 |
I'm a commie, pinko, socialist. And proud of it. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 4617 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Ignorance of basic principles of finance never stopped right-wingers from having all the answers, has it? | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 6845 Registered: 12-2005 |
Republicans achieved their objective of robbing the entire nation into oblivion. Is there any lingering wonder why Republicans and other criminals so often express antigovernment opinions? Government prosecutes criminals. Republicans hate government because they fear prosecution for their own crimes. (Message edited by Jimaz on March 26, 2009) | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 8761 Registered: 02-2007 |
"You are cherry picking data by comparing a horrible economic time frame (today), to a nearly horrible time frame(1974). Amateurish at best Rb." no, my data were to the 50s and early 60s, and you have yet to provide even a scintilla of data to support yours. "It is not redistribution to allow the producers to keep more of what they produce. This is a concept that my third grader gets....why don't liberals?" The concept that you don't understand, bats, is that the "producers" are the ones who actually make things, not the suits pushing pieces of paper around. all they produce is a whole bunch of dead trees | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 19675 Registered: 11-2006 |
You mistyped 1974 then Rb? You need to step up your game...this is too easy. Some might think that I put you up to this to take a dive. |
