Discuss Detroit » NON-DETROIT ISSUES » Tim Hardaways homophobic comments « Previous Next »
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Janesback
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anyone want to offer their opinion on the latest of Tim Hardaways comments in Miami yesterday?

Seems the N.B.A. has cancelled all appointments he had and if I did hear correctly, he was fired?

Below is a "partial" transcript of Hardaway's interview:


Le Batard: You know what you are saying there is flatly homophobic? It's bigotry?

Hardaway: ''Well, you know I hate gay people, so I let it be known. I don't like gay people and I don't like to be around gay people. I am homophobic. I don't like it. It shouldn't be in the world or in the United States. So yeah, I don't like it.''

------------------------------ -----------

Me personally, I m shocked an African American male would make hateful comments about another minority. I dont think he would be too happy if he moved into an area where his neighbors would shout their hatred for black people.. I just wander who else he hates, maybe whites, Mexicans, Muslims, Baptists,women. Think his homophobia is only the tip of the iceberg Jane
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Janesback
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 6:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

note to the post above, I know that he is a retired player, what I meant to say, is that the N.B.A. has kept him as an endorser and a spokesperson .

He was fired by Stern this morning I think. Again, I only heard this briefly on the radio. There is a difference between hate speech and free speech .Thanks, Jane
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Pam
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Me personally, I m shocked an African American male would make hateful comments about another minority



I'm not shocked. Homophobia is widespread among the general population and probably even greater among athletes. (Guys who have to be tough and "manly" for a living, but work in close contact with other men so they find the idea of gay men among them threatening.)

(Message edited by Pam on February 15, 2007)
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Jt1
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 6:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it is pitiful. I also think it is better he says what is on his mind than say what people want to hear. This country would be better off if the racists, homophobes, classists actually just said what is on their mind.

At least that way you would know what people are really thinking.
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Rjk
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Me personally, I m shocked an African American male would make hateful comments about another minority."

I'm shocked that you're shocked.
Since when does being a minority preclude you from being a bigot?
Homophobia runs pretty deep in the black community.
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Ravine
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 8:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wholeheartedly agree, Jt1. I think that we, as participants in this forum, should keep that in mind. Whatever side, of anything, one is on, it is important to know what those on the other side are truly thinking and feeling. I think we might also consider the example of Archie Bunker. He's plain speaking and blunt. No PC malarkey from Arch. No minority or "special interest group" is exempt from his bigotry and prejudice. And yet, the truth is, he's a great guy. The reason why he's such a bigot, and so prejudiced, is that he just really DOESN'T know any better, and anyone much different than he is sort of scares him a little bit. I think there is a lot of that, floating around.
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Ravine
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 8:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And another thing: I hear black guys making hateful comments about other minorities ALL THE TIME.
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Karl
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 9:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Janesback said: "Me personally, I m shocked an African American male would make hateful comments about another minority."

Uh, listened to any rap lately? Are black women "minorities"? They get degraded pretty good, without a peep from anyone. Cops? Some are minorities, they get it pretty bad too. But I guess that's OK, they're not well-liked in the black community. I could go on, but I think you get the idea without me even going on to mention the "n" word, a fav with rappers.

I'll refrain from using my = sign in hopes that you return with something redeeming.
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Yvette248
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 10:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting new phenomenon: every group wants to be black now. Homosexuals, illegal aliens, and Muslims all throw up the "black card" when arguing for their rights. Hmmmm, interesting.
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Mayor_sekou
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 12:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not interesting, Yvette annoying. Blacks are born black and were discriminated against because something they had no control or choice over. The same goes for women, immigrants, or the disabled. Gays and certain religious groups have choices, and they decided to be what they are. So therefore they must accept the consequences of their actions and not expect everyone to simply “deal” with what they are or cry foul when they think they are not being treated fairly.

While I agree that saying he hates gays is not wise. I’m glad Tim Hardaway at least said what was really on his mind and didn’t act like everything was all honky dory like everyone else in the NBA is. Besides this whole Amechi thing is a sham, its not bravery, bravery on his part would have been coming out while he was still playing. Not waiting for a book deal and exclusive ESPN time to then come out as gay, its not bravery people that made him come out its MONEY
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Karl
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 1:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"honky dory"??
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Mayor_sekou
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 1:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lol its a saying I got from my mom "honky dory" = everything is okay. I dont know, I was typing like I would talk. If your concerned about the honky part dont worry its not a racist term.
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Pam
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 3:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Gays and certain religious groups have choices, and they decided to be what they are.



I don't think gay people have a choice. I think they are born that way. Most gay people say they knew they were gay from a very young age.
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East_detroit
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 6:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mayor_sekou, don't you mean "hunky dory"?
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Karl
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 7:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pam said: "I don't think gay people have a choice. I think they are born that way. Most gay people say they knew they were gay from a very young age."

Pam, if ever we are able to identify the "gay gene" would you support the right of a woman to abort a baby simply because it was gay?
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Mikeg
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 8:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hunky-dory: definition
The base part of this term originated in the Netherlands from the East Frisian language word "hunk", which means "nook" or "retreat" or "home" in a game.
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Karl
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 8:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So all these years, ladies have been calling me some sort of "retreat"??

Mayor, may I ask your mother's ethnic background?
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Mthouston
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 8:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

If your concerned about the honky part dont worry its not a racist term.



HUH????????
Your kidding, right?
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Jams
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 8:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Karl,
Too early for martinis.
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Karl
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 8:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please don't make me use the "c" word on you, Mthouston........

Surely you know that only certain ethnic groups may use such words, and they are never considered "racist"

Only terms and actions deemed derogatory and/or racist by certain ethnic groups may be so -

Bottom line: Whites are never allowed to call anyone/anything racist, nor are they to use any "derogatory" terms, as defined only by non-whites, in any manner.

Similarly, "hate crimes" are never committed against whites, only by them. The only exception: charges are allowed if "hate crimes" are committed against gay whites.

Please get with the affirmative action program, even though it's been outlawed in Michigan.
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Mthouston
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 9:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Similarly, "hate crimes" are never committed against whites, only by them. The only exception: charges are allowed if "hate crimes" are committed against gay whites.



What about the black teens charges with a hate crime in LA last month?
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Chow
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 9:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Karl, that debate is difficult. There are many people who believe that racism can be and is used by all identity groups. But some sociologist believe that built into the very definition of 'racism' is a power relation. Hence everyone can be prejudice, but racism is a thought and effect of subordinating someone on racial grounds. Moreover they claim that racism draws upon history to justify it today. So, according to some people, since black people have never been in a power position black prejudices CANNOT be called 'racism'.

Its tricky. I think the latter definition is out of touch with what most people believe racism to be. And so when people claim that minorities can't be racist, they cry hypocrisy.
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Karl
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 9:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mt,

We'll see how far that one gets. If it is "the first" methinks it might be "the only". I'm sure Jesse and Al will be in town to water it down.
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_sj_
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 10:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

So, according to some people, since black people have never been in a power position black prejudices CANNOT be called 'racism'.



I disagree, here is a situation, one white person is on a bus surrounded by blacks who are hurling insults at that person. Who is in the position of power then.

Power Positions relate to everyday moments not history.
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Karl
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 10:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's fascinating scenario when black rappers refer to black ho's, n's, mf's along with killing 'em all.

Yet not a peep about racism.

Black-on-black crime including murder - no racism there either, at least according to the AA community.

This provides proof to -sj-'s thoughtful comment: "Power Positions relate to everyday moments not history."
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Mayor_sekou
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 10:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank You East Detroit. HUNKY DORY. Jesus. Do some people like to over react.
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Jelk
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 11:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hardaway's comments remind me of Ben Chapman. In 1947, Chapman managed the Philadelphia Phillies. When they played the Brooklyn Dodgers in an early season series, Chapman led his team in shockingly vile taunting of Jackie Robinson. It was so bad that Commissioner Happy Chandler demanded that Chapman apologize and publically meet with Robinson.

In his autobiography, I Never Had It Made, Robinson credits the incident with uniting the Dodgers behind Robinson and Branch Rickey's decision to break the game's color barrier.

I wonder if Hardaway's comments will have the same effect on the issue of gay athletes in team sports. That's the glass full concept. The half empty thought is meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Ben Chapman, Tim Hardaway. One and the same.
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Mayor_sekou
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 11:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah but this whole Amechi thing is still a sham to me. It seems very exploitive not genuine at all as opposed to someone who is gay and currently playing in the NBA coming out minus the book deal and the ESPN time. That you could have compared to Jackie Robinson, but as it stands now its all a sham.

Im just glad none of my favorite ex nba players such as MJ, Magic, or Isiah came out as gay that would have seriously ruined the NBA for me.
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Pam
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 11:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

as opposed to someone who is gay and currently playing in the NBA coming out



I can't blame the guy for not doing so, when a lot of his teammates might have the same attitudes as the guy quoted above. How would he have been able to continue playing?
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Janesback
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 11:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mayor, actually there have been many gay professionals. Remember Dave Kopay who came out. Also, Marinna Navratolova (s.p) as well as Greg Lougannis, the swimmer who pulled over an excellent dive considering he clipped the diving board on his dive. He mentioned that not one single sponsor contacted him for any endorsements.

Its interesting that Hardaway wants gay players prohibited in sports, yet its sad that 60 years ago people didnt want players of his color involved in sports. You think you've seen it all until you read about things like that. Jane
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Patrick
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You'll never see an NHL or NFL player come out during his career. He'll be dead meat on the field. Players will try extra hard to put a hurting on any "out" player. Would you consider it easier for an individual-sport athlete to come out?
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Sknutson
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 11:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Im just glad none of my favorite ex nba players such as MJ, Magic, or Isiah came out as gay that would have seriously ruined the NBA for me.



Sounds like mayor and hardaway share the same hate.
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Jelk
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 12:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I didn't compare Amechi and Robinson. I compared Hardaway's bigotry to Ben Chapman's bigotry.

Jackie Robinson is the single most heroic professional athlete is history. I wouldn't compare anyone to him.

Hardaway and Chapman, however, are both rank bigots of the lowest order.
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Higgs1634
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well, then there are those who put forth the idea that many homophobes have a propensity to be gay themselves. (uh..Ted Hagard anyone?) I believe there are studies that bear that out...but I dont feel like looking for them.

Is Hardaway protesting too much?
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Jelk
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 3:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Blacks are born black and were discriminated against because something they had no control or choice over. The same goes for women, immigrants, or the disabled. Gays and certain religious groups have choices, and they decided to be what they are. So therefore they must accept the consequences of their actions and not expect everyone to simply “deal” with what they are or cry foul when they think they are not being treated fairly.



Mayorseko or whatever your name is, this is Anne Frank.


Frank


Are we too assume that her death at the hands of the Nazis was ok in your eyes. After all she and her family could have chosen not be Jewish. By your logic they "must accept the consequences of their actions" and not except the pure Ayran German people to "deal with what they are."

I guess I'm glad that you, like Tim Hardaway, decided to say what they really think. Now we all know you are a fucknut.
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Supersport
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 4:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm sorry, but this whole situation just baffles me. First, you have some washed up former NBA player who never really made it come out of the closet. Personally, I see this as somebody who accepted his career was over and wanted in some way to get back in the spotlight, making some cash in the process. So, after accepting he will never play on a team again, he announces that he is gay.

I'm sure he'll either write a book now, or perhaps already has one in the works. He'll appear on talk shows, give public speeches, and perhaps even form some sort of gay association for athletes. Either way, he will likely greatly benefit financially from his announcement.

Next, you just knew that the media would look for an athlete to give them just the reaction they were looking for. In all honesty, the majority of athletes probably feel the exact same way as Hardaway, though aren't dumb enough to say it publicly. Now Hardaway is the bad guy, because he gave an honest answer to how he feels about the whole situation. Then, after he gave a truthful answer, he was essentially pressured into issuing an apology, stating he shouldn't have said what he said. I have to ask, why not? Do we live in a society today where we no longer have a freedom of speech? Can we no longer say what we are thinking out loud in public for fear that somebody may not share our beliefs? Can we not express our opinions if they go against what the masses believe?

I have no problem with gay people. I say live and let live. However, that doesn't mean that I have to feel that a gay lifestyle is right, just because I am accepting of it. Nor does it mean I would have to feel comfortable having a gay teammate in the locker room with me. It seems a growing number in society today feel that we not only have to be accepting of one another, but we have to give differences some sort of blessing, or else we should just keep quiet and not express our opinions.

I personally congratulate Mr Hardaway for having the balls to say what he felt, not giving the politically correct bullshit that everybody expects. If he hadn't said it, his opinion would have never been quoted in the papers. The media would have moved on to the next athlete who would have said it. Call him a bigot or whatever else you want, but at least he isn't living in fear of expresses his opinions in public. Let's look at it this way, let's say this gay former NBA player was still in the league, as was Hardaway, who do you think would suffer more from making their recent statements? Whether or not people would admit to it, the majority would be silently bobbing their head in agreement Mr Hardaway, and Mr Amechi would find himself with little support outside the gay community.

There were suspicions and talk that Joey Harrington may have been gay. It was quite evident how it was him against the team towards the end of his time with the Lions. On most teams, linemen would help their QB up after he got creamed. For Joey, he was often on his own, sometimes even with the other team helping him up. If that was in fact the case, that he was gay and his teammates found out, then that just goes to show how a team would react to such a situation.

Are we destined to become a bunch of sheeple that accept and encourage alternate lifestyles, simply because that is the politically correct thing to do? Hardaway hates gay people, he said it, now let's move on, because you aren't going to change his opinion.
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Jelk
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I'm sorry, but this whole situation just baffles me.



Most things do. You aren't that smart.

quote:

First, you have some washed up former NBA player who never really made it come out of the closet. Personally, I see this as somebody who accepted his career was over and wanted in some way to get back in the spotlight, making some cash in the process. So, after accepting he will never play on a team again, he announces that he is gay.



John Amaechi isn't Paris Hilton. He was one of the smartest professional athletes in any sport. Much of his post-career efforts have been dedicated toward building youth sports programs in Great Britain. Back when he was in the league he talked about aspirations to go to medical school. He actually turned down larger contracts to play in the league on his own terms. Suggesting that this is about money only betrays ignorance about the subject.

quote:

Next, you just knew that the media would look for an athlete to give them just the reaction they were looking for. In all honesty, the majority of athletes probably feel the exact same way as Hardaway, though aren't dumb enough to say it publicly.



Yeap the media made Hardaway say he's a bigot. Glad to know most bigots in the NBA are so much smarter than Tim Hardaway.

quote:

I have no problem with gay people.

One of my favorite Jim Rome maxims...if you have to begin a thought by saying 'I'm not a racist' or 'I got no problems with gay people' it probably means you are a racist and/or you have problems with gay people. I guess Sport is smarter than Tim Hardaway.

quote:

I personally congratulate Mr Hardaway for having the balls to say what he felt, not giving the politically correct bullshit that everybody expects.



I hope you also "congratulate" David Duke, Fred Phelps and other bigots for their courage to say what they felt.

quote:

Whether or not people would admit to it, the majority would be silently bobbing their head in agreement Mr Hardaway, and Mr Amechi would find himself with little support outside the gay community.



Tyranny of the majority. God bless democracy.

quote:

There were suspicions and talk that Joey Harrington may have been gay. It was quite evident how it was him against the team towards the end of his time with the Lions. On most teams, linemen would help their QB up after he got creamed. For Joey, he was often on his own, sometimes even with the other team helping him up. If that was in fact the case, that he was gay and his teammates found out, then that just goes to show how a team would react to such a situation.



So if Dan Marino was a flaming queen he would have lost the support of his teammates? Boy that's just stupid.Your Harrington example only proves why John Amaechi's sexuality is relevant. If Joey Harrington's career was short-circuited because his teammates didn't like his sexual orientation, it is any wonder gay athletes don't come out while active.

quote:

Are we destined to become a bunch of sheeple that accept and encourage alternate lifestyles, simply because that is the politically correct thing to do?



I would hope we are destined to become a fair-minded and enlightened society that tolerates people that are different from them and accords them the right to live their life as they will.

Active in pro sports or not, I think gay people openly talking about their sexuality merits our respect. As long as ignorant fucks like you defend ignorant fucks like Tim Hardaway, the world (or parts of it anyway) must be a cold place for gays and lesbians.

(Message edited by jelk on February 16, 2007)
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Supersport
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 6:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Most things do. You aren't that smart.



Here we go again, Jelk trying to convince us that he is the next Einstein. Dude, you got your degree from WSU, then stated you were disappointed that the courses weren't more challenging. If you were so damn smart perhaps you should have went to a more prestigious college.

quote:

John Amaechi isn't Paris Hilton. He was one of the smartest professional athletes in any sport. Much of his post-career efforts have been dedicated toward building youth sports programs in Great Britain. Back when he was in the league he talked about aspirations to go to medical school.



Wow, great, the guy is able to talk about going to medical school, but didn't, and was able to organize youth sports programs. Your high school football coach could organize youth sports programs, and we know what you think about high school football coaches. He averaged 6 points a game for his career, that is a washed up player by most standards.

quote:

One of my favorite Jim Rome maxims...if you have to begin a thought by saying 'I'm not a racist' or 'I got no problems with gay people' it probably means you are a racist and/or you have problems with gay people. I guess Sport is smarter than Tim Hardaway.



So anybody who states they don't have a problem with gay people, or don't have a problem playing basketball with gay people, they really DO have a problem with it? I realize you worked in media and are used to twisting things around 180 degrees in order to get your story.


quote:

I hope you also "congratulate" David Duke, Fred Phelps and other bigots for their courage to say what they felt.



I do congratulate them. This is a free country, they can say what they want to say, believe what they want to believe, and they honestly don't give a flying fuck if you or anybody else agrees with them. I'm more concerned about people like yourself who put on a dog and pony show for everybody, yet never really put your true beliefs out there.

quote:

So if Dan Marino was a flaming queen he would have lost the support of his teammates?



Yep, no doubt about it. Would have even been 10x worse when he played than it would be today.

quote:

I would hope we are destined to become a fair-minded and enlightened society that tolerates people that are different from them and accords them the right to live their life as they will.

Active in pro sports or not, I think gay people openly talking about their sexuality merits our respect. As long as ignorant fucks like you defend ignorant fucks like Tim Hardaway, the world (or parts of it anyway) must be a cold place for gays and lesbians.



So basically you want these people with differing opinions and those who hate certain people to just keep that to themselves, because it may hurt yours or somebody else's feelings? Well boo fuckin' hoo.

I hate a lot of things, and arrogant elitists like yourself that think they are all high and mighty top the list. I love the fact that this country has freedom of speech, and if Tim Hardaway hates gays, then that his his right. If the media chooses to relay that hatred, then blame them. They were the only ones with the power to get that message out to the masses, not Tim Hardaway. The media is to blame for spreading hatred in this country, not those speaking it. How many people could Mr Hardaway relayed his feelings to on his own?
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Patrick
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 7:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember when Reggie White made similar comments an he stood his ground. I don't remember the media going after him that bad really.
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Ravine
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Username: Ravine

Post Number: 664
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I heard a couple of sports radio guys hashing out this topic, today, and one thing they agreed on-- quite matter-of-factly, I might add-- was that Hardaway does not have the right to walk around hating gay people. I thought, Wait a minute, yes he does have that right; he can hate whoever he hates. While I can appreciate his honesty, I think he's a sorry-ass lost soul. Still, to paraphrase something me dear sainted mum once told me, you have the right to swing your arm around as much as you want, as long as it isn't hitting anybody. Some PC whiners might argue that, by publicly saying what he said, he (sort of) WAS hitting some people, but I don't buy that. No sticks, no stones, just a douchebag blowing his teeny little horn.
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Kristina
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Username: Kristina

Post Number: 20
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 10:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Supersport. You are a grade a jerk off. I 100% doubt this guy came out of the closet to get rich quick. "Coming out of the closet" per se is by no means a painless process. It some places it be can dangerous and I speculate in the world of professional athletics it is especially so. "Sheeple" are actually the kind of people that are terrified by alternative lifestyles, not the ones that accept them.
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Supersport
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Post Number: 11272
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Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 11:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kristina,

Screw that! If he wanted to come out, then he should have done so when he played in the league. Today, he is a grade A nobody! The only reason he is getting any media coverage at all is because he announced he was gay. Hardaway's comments only added fuel to the fire. I'm sorry, you can say that coming out of the closet is by no means a painless process, but the fact is, I could seriously give two shits if the guy was gay or not. The only reason he is getting coverage is because he was a former NBA player with NO game.

Like Ravine said, douchebag or not, he Hardaway has a right to express his opinion. Don't blame him for stepping up on the soap box, as he didn't relay it across the world, the media did. I mean come on, is somebody coming out saying they hate gays really worthy of worldwide news coverage? You venture into the neighborhood church and you'll find dozens of people that believe gays will burn in hell, how come they didn't interview them? Oh, that's right, because they never stepped food on a basketball court, so the masses don't care to hear their opinions from Sunday mass.
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Mayor_sekou
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Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 538
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 2:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^^I 100% agree Supersport.

The name is Mayor Sekou Jelk and you would be wise to not forget it.

"Are we too assume that her death at the hands of the Nazis was ok in your eyes. After all she and her family could have chosen not be Jewish. By your logic they "must accept the consequences of their actions" and not except the pure Ayran German people to "deal with what they are."

I am curious as to where in my post I stated that her death by the Nazis was "ok in my eyes" I simply stated, and I thought it was fairly obvious, that people who have choices in their lifestyles, religions, or etc. should be well aware of the consequences of their actions and not expect everyone to simply agree with and accept their decisions. Because realistically that wont happen. Ann Frank being a good example she choose to be Jewish and thus she bravely accepted the consequences of doing so during the Jewish genocide. While we may not like the consequences or her choice or of our own actions/choices we accept them because we accept the choice that we made. SO try and twist it as you may so you can try to maintain some form of moral high ground on the issue, but the fact remains that for every action where one makes a choice there is a consequence be it good or bad. And if believing that elementary concept makes me some homophobe Nazi now then so be it.

Also I am alarmed by you so called Americans who believe in the right to free speech and a opinion who are so quick to condemn anyone who doesn’t sympathize with John Amechi. It is as if the right to have a dissenting opinion about this Amechi sham is not allowed, we all must be robots and accept Amechi homosexuality as a good thing. (Now I know how the board Republicans feel) Nevermind the fact that Mr. Amechi is no trailblazer in the field of homosexual tolerance and he only found it convenient to out himself when ESPN promises to publish his already written autobiography and give him all the TV time he needs to promote it. Could you people be any more naïve? I would have respected Mr. Amechi if he would have come out while playing, that like Ms. Franks actions, would have been brave. What he is doing today is only for the $$$ and nothing else.

And please stop comparing the plight of gays to black people (which is why I commented in the first place)as so many of you often do. It is stupid. We all have no choice as to whether or not we are born black, brown, or white so therefore we should not be held accountable for the consequences for a choice we never had to make. As I elaborated on above people…you know I am not going to repeat it you should get the point.



“quote:
Im just glad none of my favorite ex nba players such as MJ, Magic, or Isiah came out as gay that would have seriously ruined the NBA for me.


Sounds like mayor and hardaway share the same hate.


No hate at all its just my preference. Perhaps you share the same hatred of people with opinions just as your everyday communist would have.
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East_detroit
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Username: East_detroit

Post Number: 964
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Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 8:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mayor Sekou,

You might want to do a little more research as you have evidently fallen into the group with confusion between Jewish ethnicity and religion.

Anne Frank was born a Jew because her Mother was Jewish. She could never change that, even if she denounced Judaism. The Nazis wouldnt care if she was a practicing Catholic as they would still consider her Jewish, as would Jews themselves.
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Pam
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Username: Pam

Post Number: 1069
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Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 9:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a book for people who think being gay is a "lifestyle choice".

http://www.amazon.com/When-I-K new-Robert-Trachtenberg/dp/006 0571462/sr=1-1/qid=1171725986/ ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-0323868-24 02438?ie=UTF8&s=books
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_sj_
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Username: _sj_

Post Number: 1726
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

There were suspicions and talk that Joey Harrington may have been gay.



That was from the Wal-Mart Wolverines who when a player does not perform is not as good as they thought he must be gay.

The same things are said about Jon Kitna.
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 6297
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Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 10:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pam, thank you for that book. I noticed that you didn't answer my earlier question - a simple yes or no will suffice:

Pam, if ever we are able to identify the "gay gene" would you support the right of a woman to abort a baby simply because it was gay?
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Janesback
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Username: Janesback

Post Number: 230
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Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 11:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting how these men think about gays, yet hand em a porn flick showing 2 hot, sweaty dripping lipstick lesbians getting it on and then poll them on their opinion about same sex relations?

Am I right? Jane ;)
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 6298
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Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jane makes an excellent point. But let's leave "lesbians" alone for the moment.

Anyone know any straight male vocalists willing to do a Madonna/Spears liplock at the end of their performance? Uh, sorry, an Elton/Jacko matchup doesn't count.

Or how about 2 guys kissing in the end zone, celebrating a touchdown?

It would appear that an increasing # of guys think it "normal" for 2 ladies to "get it on" for them. Would they think it "normal" if a lady asked the guy to "get it on" with his buddy for her?

Pam, don't be so quiet. Just "yes" or "no".
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Themax
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Username: Themax

Post Number: 549
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Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Supersport: What do you mean by the gay lifestyle? And why would you be uncomfortable being around gays? It's not contagious.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11275
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Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 12:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I never said I'd be uncomfortable around gays. I said I would be uncomfortable around gays in a locker room.

A lifestyle is a means in which you live your life. A gay lifestyle is one in which you have relations with a person of the same sex. Does it really need to be that spelled out for you?
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Dds
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Username: Dds

Post Number: 127
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Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 1:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I never said I'd be uncomfortable around gays. I said I would be uncomfortable around gays in a locker room.



Why? It's not like they would checking you out and hitting on you.

quote:

A lifestyle is a means in which you live your life. A gay lifestyle is one in which you have relations with a person of the same sex. Does it really need to be that spelled out for you?



A gay lifestyle is one in which a person is attracted to the same sex. The physical act has nothing to do with it. In your definition, a person isn't gay until they have sex. So I guess someone had to spell it out for you.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11276
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Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 2:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've been hit on by more gay guys in my life than I'd like to even think about. So yes, I would feel uncomfortable in a locker room with a gay man.

Dds,

Who said anything about sex? Relations could be nothing more than being their partner. Here, I'll spell this out for ya too. Notice only one subcategory makes any mention of sex.

re·la·tion Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-ley-shuhn]

1. an existing connection; a significant association between or among things: the relation between cause and effect.
2. relations, a. the various connections between peoples, countries, etc.: foreign relations.
b. the various connections in which persons are brought together: business and social relations.
c. sexual intercourse.

3. the mode or kind of connection between one person and another, between an individual and God, etc.
4. connection between persons by blood or marriage.
5. a person who is related by blood or marriage; relative: his wife's relations.
6. the act of relating, narrating, or telling; narration.
7. Law. a principle whereby effect is given to an act done at one time as if it had been done at a previous time.
8. Mathematics. a. a property that associates two quantities in a definite order, as equality or inequality.
b. a single- or multiple-valued function.
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Vic_doucette
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Username: Vic_doucette

Post Number: 316
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 2:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sport, what's it like to be a magnet for BOTH sexes?

And the world is better off if as long as we have idiots like Hardaway, they spuzz their views in a public forum. That way we know who they are.
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Dds
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Username: Dds

Post Number: 128
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Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice elementary school tactic. I don't let my 6th grade students use a dictionary definition in an argumentative essay.

Let me spell this out to you. The closer a definition is to the top, the more accepted it is. You typed "relations" not relation. "Relations" IS the second definition. The word relations (the word you typed, not relation) means sexual intercourse. If you try to pick nits about it being letter "c," there is no hope for you.

quote:

I've been hit on by more gay guys in my life than I'd like to even think about. So yes, I would feel uncomfortable in a locker room with a gay man.



What's so terrible about it? Are you afraid he's going to pull you into the shower stall? Of the times I've been approached by gay men, when you tell them politely you're straight, they are polite back to you and say some flattering things about you. Or better yet, tell your girlfriend how cute you are.

The way you put it, you sound insecure, or that you are afraid they will gang up on you.
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Johnberk
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Username: Johnberk

Post Number: 52
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote: Gays and certain religious groups have choices, and they decided to be what they are.


This is simply not true, and I am surprised that it has not been challenged by more posters.

Mayor_sekou, do you remember the day you chose your sexual orientation? Perhaps you could share the details with us.
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Ravine
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Username: Ravine

Post Number: 666
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 3:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You folks are starting to make my ass hurt. Oh, sorry; maybe, on this thread, that's not the best way to describe my condition.
You know what? I wouldn't be comfortable, sharing a locker room with Tim Hardaway. What if, in the course of carrying out our various separate activities, Hardaway was prancing around in his birthday suit, and his diminutive schlonglet happened to enter my immediate field of vision, and he thought I was "checking him out?" Geez. There are so many things to worry about, if you're stuck with having to be around members of lesser-evolved species.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11278
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Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 7:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

And the world is better off if as long as we have idiots like Hardaway, they spuzz their views in a public forum. That way we know who they are.



EXACTLY! We live in a country were we are fortunate enough to have freedom of speech. People like Mr Hardaway and Michael Richards have the freedom to say whatever the hell they want. For that freedom, both may pay the price, with Hardaway getting dismissed from some All Star weekend events, and Richards likely with sales of Seinfeld to blacks. Yet why get upset over it? Any party, person, or group in this country is allowed to express their beliefs and opinions. Should the fact that some people don't share your beliefs really be that surprising?

Seriously, what do people want? Would they prefer that people like Hardaway just keep their mouth shut, not outing themselves for who they really are? I'd much rather they speak their minds, as now we know the real person, not somebody putting on a dog and pony show in front of the camera.

I for one am in total support of our freedoms in this country granted to us via the constitution. Sometimes those freedoms allow for some ugliness, but it's the price we pay for those freedoms. It seems that some people would rather censor people from expressing their opinions. Perhaps people would be happier if the freedom of the press simply went away, with the government censoring everything that is reported. That way, views such as Hardaway's would never get reported, and the world would just be one big old happy place where nobody would hate or disagree with anybody. Riiiiight. Grow up people! So you didn't like what Hardaway said, tough shit, won't be the last time in your lives that you disagree with somebody's beliefs.
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Kristina
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Username: Kristina

Post Number: 22
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 8:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Supersport,
I think you missed my point. My point is that you have a lot of nerve de validating someone's coming out process.
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Kurwo
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Username: Kurwo

Post Number: 869
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 1:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wish Manrooter were here. He'd sort this all out with some pithy single entendre.

:-(
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Themax
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Username: Themax

Post Number: 557
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Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Supersport: A lifestyle implies more than just how someone performs sex. It's about what you do all your waking hours.

IMO the people who spend their time hating are more to be feared than the people who spend their time loving. A lot of people's dislike of homosexuality gets down to esthetics. Very often the men who are loud about disliking gays have no problem having a woman go down on them which I think is rather impersonal. And there are lots of women who get hit on by unattractive male jerks and manage to go on.

And you don't have to be in a lockerroom for some people to want to start a fight if you look their way. Unfortunately, I don't see things getting better among people with the rise in unemployment. In hard times lots of people lose their generosity.
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Rjk
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Username: Rjk

Post Number: 623
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Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 6:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm reminded of an interview that involved Milt Wilcox 4 or 5 years ago on one of the local sports radio stations. I can't remember why the gay issue came up, but Milt was asked how he would react if someone called him gay. He responded by saying that he would punch the person. He sounded like an 8 year old, not someone in his late 40's.
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Jelk
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Username: Jelk

Post Number: 4230
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Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 10:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let's not forget that Tim Hardaway didn't say that he thought homosexuality was a sin or something that made him uncomfortable. He said he HATES homosexuals and that homosexuals don't belong on this planet or in the United States (sic). If you substitute "homosexuals" the social group for the name of an individual who is a homosexual, Hardway's statement doesn't change.

Let's use a gay friend of mine named Franklin. What Tim Hardaway said was that he hates Franklin and that Franklin doesn't belong on the planet or in the United States.

Kurwo mentioned Manrooter. Tim Hardaway's comments me exactly this: Hardaway hates Manrooter and that Manrooters doesn't belong on the planet or in the United States.

I guess that courageous statement merits praise in Supersport's narrow, sad world view.
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Janesback
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Username: Janesback

Post Number: 233
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Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 11:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When Hardaway then hates Jews, I think he will feel that its OK not to have them here in the United States either. Lets replace Hardaways name with Hitlers, and change the word U.S to Europe.

Removing gays, now Jews, whose next? Hispanics, then Mid Easterners as well as whites and Asians?

Where would it end with Hardaway?


note, someone mentioned that gays had lots of choices and had a big presence.

Gays are limited on making choices. How often do you see 2 gay guys, or 2 lesbians holding hands and being affectionate in public? Look into the laws that hold up adoption for them.
If one of a gay couple is in a hospital, see how many rights they dont have, such as helping make medical decisions. They arent allowed in the ICU units if they arent family. They cant choose to come out in the workplace, how many would lose their jobs. How many have lost family because they are gay?

I have met many gays, many of them are professional , have degrees, hold good positions in work, and have the coolest houses. Many, many are in long term relationships. Many are hard working taxpayers as well as homeowners that supply a great tax base to the city.

Thats all I wanted to say. Thanks for listening. Jane

Jane
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 6316
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Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 11:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I find myself agreeing with Jelk. However, I think Jelk (and many others) have been silent on someone like the prez of Iran repeatedly saying over the past months that the Holocaust never happened, Israel needs to be blown off the face of the earth, and all Jews must be killed.

Further, this generally anti-war/hate Bush crowd never seems to want to address how radical Islam treats gays. Hint: it isn't pretty - and makes Hardaway seem tame.

Hardaway, though an adult, expresses himself at his intellectual level, which I think we all agree isn't exactly adult. BUT - while we may have different viewpoints as to how the gay lifestyle fits in our lives, perhaps we can generally agree that our Maker/afterlife will reward/condemn our actions - not here and now. The freedom we enjoy permits our thoughts, feelings, and verbal expression - but not physical action against those who think differently than we.

By their actions, I think we also might agree: radical Islam prefers to deal with the gay lifestyle here and now - and has and will. And in this area, perhaps we are all united, even with Tim Hardaway. While he expresses strong and perhaps distasteful viewpoints, we can hold our noses and coexist peacefully with him. We can't say the same with those we're battling overseas, and perhaps here.
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Jelk
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Post Number: 4231
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Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 11:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I think Jelk (and many others) have been silent on someone like the prez of Iran repeatedly saying over the past months that the Holocaust never happened, Israel needs to be blown off the face of the earth, and all Jews must be killed.



Wrong boy-o. Because I don't discuss it here doesn't mean I've been silent. But thanks for changing the subject.
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 6317
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Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 12:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry Jelk - "boy-o" is right with regard to these threads - and that's all I can speak about, but I thought that was obvious. Discussing how Hardaway, you, other posters or radical Islam treats gays would hardly seem to be a change of subject - unless, of course, you were trying to silence certain voices. I'll assume not, and that this all was just an oversight on your part.
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Jelk
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Username: Jelk

Post Number: 4232
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Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 1:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Back on track:

quote:

Kurwo mentioned Manrooter. Tim Hardaway's comments me exactly this: Hardaway hates Manrooter and that Manrooters doesn't belong on the planet or in the United States.

I guess that courageous statement merits praise in Supersport's narrow, sad world view.

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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 6319
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Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, back on track:

It would appear radical Islamists hate Jelk and Manrooter simply for their viewpoints on gay folks, and would immediately behead them, removing them from both the USA and the planet.

Hardaway merely blathers.
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Carolcb
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Username: Carolcb

Post Number: 84
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Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 3:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK, here is my two cents between your dollar....

I am sure all of us have known gay men and lesbians ever since we were attending elementary school with them. You have known these folks your whole life. Who are you afraid of?

Secondly, are we to assume there are fewer gays and lesbians in the Middle East? What about Utah? What about Lancaster Co, PA? I don't think so.
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Supergay
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Username: Supergay

Post Number: 30
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I have no problem with gay people. I say live and let live. However, that doesn't mean that I have to feel that a gay lifestyle is right, just because I am accepting of it.



Wow, I was shocked to read this from somebody who two days later was practically blogging love letters to a proudly and openly gay man.

You are seriously one of the biggest hypocrites I have ever seen. Jelk is right, you are an idiot.
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 3853
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Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I find my self wondering how Karls insane rants relate in the smallest sense to what Tim Hardaway said?
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Mayor_sekou
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Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 541
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 5:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Mayor_sekou, do you remember the day you chose your sexual orientation? Perhaps you could share the details with us."

LoL, sure I think it was around the time I got a boner from my first porn or was it could have been that time that chicks tits popped out at the rouge park pool. But wait...NO im wrong its neither it was the time in high school when I finally got laid and thought, "this is the most awesome shit ever" LOL

Haha Im sorry but that question was kind of funny.

Oh, and East_detoit I think I will have to research that one day I didnt realize there was that big of a difference. But I was refering to the religion not the ethnicity.
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 6320
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Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 6:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Carolcb trys with this: "Secondly, are we to assume there are fewer gays and lesbians in the Middle East? What about Utah? What about Lancaster Co, PA? I don't think so."

Uh, rumor has it that the Middle East is about as gay-friendly as the breathing area around Tim Hardaway's locker, but with machetes added.

Try running that up the flagpole on your next trip to Mecca, Carolcb.
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Jelk
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Username: Jelk

Post Number: 4235
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Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 6:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hopefully people like the Ayatollah Hussein Khomeinis and John Ameichi's will triumph over the Osama Binladens, Tim Hardaways, and Tid Haggards of the world.
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 6322
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Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 12:00 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice to know you're rooting for the Ayatollah, Jelk. He's a gem compared to Haggard/Hardaway.
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Carolcb
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Username: Carolcb

Post Number: 89
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Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 7:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK Karl, bear with me, I am sure I do not put as much "thought" in my posts as you evidently put into yours..... I was not inferring that everyone is partying at the Rubyiat in Dadbag, I was saying I am sure there are just as many gays there as there are here, and possibly just as miserable as that ex-minister that at 8:00 AM (from Colorado) that I cannot remember his name right now.
Yes, Karl I am aware that there are areas where tires are thrown around women who don't measure up in some way or another, and where women are mutilated, I am sure it keeps them in line (isn't that what religion is all about?) - I am saying that there are just as many people over there that are gay as there are in Utah or Bucks County or where ever. God, the guys name is on the last post! HAGGARD.........
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5533
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 8:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tim Hardaway follow his religious ideology. Just like the dominant Christian American people do. Tim Hardaway MUST learn to love thy neighbor and love your enemies even through they are Gay or Lesbian. He doesn't have like the lifestyle of Homosexual activity or love the person who he or she is from the heart. That goes for all Christians, Muslims and Jews.
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Jelk
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Username: Jelk

Post Number: 4236
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 12:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Karl do you even know who the Ayatollah Hussein Khomeini is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H ussein_Khomeini
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Dds
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Username: Dds

Post Number: 131
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 3:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I bet he thought you were referring to Ayatollah Hussein Khomeini-mini. An honest mistake.
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 3863
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 10:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well there Jelk....it seems that our resident intellectually challenged, cerebral midget might have actually been wrong...








AGAIN!

But then again hey...what else is new?
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 6328
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh yes, I defer to intellectually superior cerebral giant stylin - move dat bro to da head o' da class......
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Supergay
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Username: Supergay

Post Number: 31
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 12:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's the only other thing I have to say about this matter:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-me 8KUtXIWo
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Beavis1981
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Username: Beavis1981

Post Number: 213
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 7:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dds
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Username: Dds

Post Number: 128
Registered: 10-2006

Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 3:52 pm: Edit PostDelete Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Nice elementary school tactic. I don't let my 6th grade students use a dictionary definition in an argumentative essay.

Let me spell this out to you. The closer a definition is to the top, the more accepted it is. You typed "relations" not relation. "Relations" IS the second definition. The word relations (the word you typed, not relation) means sexual intercourse. If you try to pick nits about it being letter "c," there is no hope for you.

quote:

I've been hit on by more gay guys in my life than I'd like to even think about. So yes, I would feel uncomfortable in a locker room with a gay man.



What's so terrible about it? Are you afraid he's going to pull you into the shower stall? Of the times I've been approached by gay men, when you tell them politely you're straight, they are polite back to you and say some flattering things about you. Or better yet, tell your girlfriend how cute you are.

The way you put it, you sound insecure, or that you are afraid they will gang up on you.


I completly 100% agree! The locker room thing has not bothered me before! so what! You are already baring all for the world to see! As long as their is no grabbing If somebody likes what they see good for them I'm 100% commfortable with my apperance. As for being hit on- most of the time the ice-breaker is a offer to buy you a drink. I just say I don't swing that way but if you just want to b.s I will gladly accept the drink. 8 times out of 10 they usually do! The other 2 times are guys who need to get laid and therefore don't want to waste the time.
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Boo
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Username: Boo

Post Number: 171
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 8:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

even str8 men check each other out in locker rooms.
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Detroitbill
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Username: Detroitbill

Post Number: 159
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 8:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I always find it amusing when you hear the argument that gay people had a choice in being gay versus they are born that way, Its generally coming from a certain element of straight people,,, The answer to this is pretty obvious folks, Why dont you ask gay people??? The vast majority are going to tell you they didnt pull out a menu and pick out the gay option on it. It is just who you are. Just like straight people dont look at the wall one day and decide to be straight. Yet some function both ways and that is their blueprint in life. Might be best just to accept people for who they are in this world and learn to live together. As for the comment how uncomfortable one would be around gay people in the lockeroom, I hate to tell you,, but you have been many times and didnt even know it. Gay people like straight people play hockey, football and numberous other sports but dont generally float their sexuality in those areas due to homophobia. This is an awful term but many gay people call it the "invisible N word syndrome" because they are openly prejudiced against yet the person sitting next to you doesnt have a clue that you are. Ofcourse everyone has the right to express their likes or dislikes in this society , that is ones right in a democracy but when this turns into acts of physical violence and total mental degradation one is crossing the line.

(Message edited by DetroitBill on February 23, 2007)
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Beavis1981
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Username: Beavis1981

Post Number: 268
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 8:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^Just wondering are you gay? If so I have a few questions. I'm straight but I realize the obvious-It has not been proven yet but it is in the genes people! You can't choose your orientation anymore than you can choose your skin color.
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Erikd
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Username: Erikd

Post Number: 812
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 6:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I simply stated, and I thought it was fairly obvious, that people who have choices in their lifestyles, religions, or etc. should be well aware of the consequences of their actions and not expect everyone to simply agree with and accept their decisions. Because realistically that wont happen. Ann Frank being a good example she choose to be Jewish and thus she bravely accepted the consequences of doing so during the Jewish genocide. While we may not like the consequences or her choice or of our own actions/choices we accept them because we accept the choice that we made. SO try and twist it as you may so you can try to maintain some form of moral high ground on the issue, but the fact remains that for every action where one makes a choice there is a consequence be it good or bad. And if believing that elementary concept makes me some homophobe Nazi now then so be it.



Mayor_sekou,

Your post is the most disturbing thing I have ever read on this forum:

quote:

people who have choices in their lifestyles, religions, or etc. should be well aware of the consequences of their actions and not expect everyone to simply agree with and accept their decisions...Ann Frank being a good example she choose to be Jewish and thus she bravely accepted the consequences of doing so during the Jewish genocide.



Anne Frank was a thirteen year old girl when she went into hiding to escape the Nazi acts of genocide. After two years of hiding, her family was found by the Nazis, and they were sent off to a death camp.

Anne Frank had no say in her fate. She did not choose to be sent to a death camp. She did not "choose to be Jewish."

quote:

While we may not like the consequences or her choice or of our own actions/choices we accept them because we accept the choice that we made. SO try and twist it as you may so you can try to maintain some form of moral high ground on the issue, but the fact remains that for every action where one makes a choice there is a consequence be it good or bad.



The Nazis made the decision to exterminate Jewish people. The Nazis targeted millions of Jewish people, hunted them down, and murdered them in cold blood.

Your attempt to blame the Jewish victims for this Nazi-perpetrated genocide is unconscionable, and your dismissal of the "moral high ground" in a discussion about genocide is even more disturbing.

quote:

And if believing that elementary concept makes me some homophobe Nazi now then so be it.



Your belief of that "elementary concept" doesn't necessarily make you a homophobe Nazi, but it does make you a sociopath.

Your absolute lack of empathy for the victims of genocide is shocking, but your attempts to excuse the perpetrators of this great injustice, and place the blame on the most innocent victims is truly horrifying.
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 6346
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 8:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ericd said it better than I could have, Mayor. I've been thinking about your post for some time, but didn't quite know what to say.

Using your logic, you would consider it logical and justifiable if the prez of Iran makes good on his threats to blow Israel off the map and kill all Jews "because they chose to be Jewish"?

Though I'm sure as a liberal you wouldn't consider the US intervention in such a bloodbath to be "a consequence of the actions" of the prez of Iran's choices, would you?

Anti-semitism = alive and well right here on DY.
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Mayor_sekou
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Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 552
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 2:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

<sigh>...........Wow I did not think what I typed was that hard to understand.

First off I did not bring the Ann Frank example up Jelk did, I just tried to clarify what I meant using that example. My point was that people who CHOOSE a religion Ill repeat CHOOSE a religion or lifestyle should be well aware of the consequences and not expect everyone to be tolerant or conform with their choice, because realistically that wont happen. Ann Frank may have not had a choice as to her religion as you point out so my point may not apply to her. Just like other people who don’t have choices like Black people, the Disabled, or certain ethnic groups. So if you have a problem with her name being brought up ask Jelk why he brought her up, not me.

“The Nazis made the decision to exterminate Jewish people. The Nazis targeted millions of Jewish people, hunted them down, and murdered them in cold blood.”

Exactly the choose to carry out the genocide and they are suffering the consequences of their actions right now in hell.

“Your attempt to blame the Jewish victims for this Nazi-perpetrated genocide is unconscionable, and your dismissal of the "moral high ground" in a discussion about genocide is even more disturbing.”

Wrong this is not a discussion about genocide. This is about the consequences of a choice Tim Hardaway made stop trying to turn it into something it is not. So how exactly am I blaming the victim because I am pointing out that someone may choose to act adversely to their choice Remember, victims are victims because of someone else’s choices.

“Your belief of that "elementary concept" doesn't necessarily make you a homophobe Nazi, but it does make you a sociopath.”

One of the first lessons many children are taught is that for every choice there is a consequence many children maybe even yourself are taught these simple lessons. For example:

If you steal, you may be punished. If you fight, you may get beat up. If you kill, you may be killed.

Do you agree or disagree with those lessons or are we raising a nation of sociopaths because we teach our children this?

If you agree then what is the difference between those above and more complicated ones like:

If you choose to be Jewish, there may be this crazy Iranian who want to eliminate you.
If you choose to be Muslim, you may be discriminated against because of the actions of other Muslims.
If you choose to be gay, Tim Hardaway and Pat Roberson may bad mouth you in the media.
If you choose to make a point on DetroitYes, people like Jelk, Erikd, and Karl may have a hard time understanding you.

If you think there is no difference good for you, you get it. If you do what is the difference?

“Though I'm sure as a liberal you wouldn't consider the US intervention in such a bloodbath to be "a consequence of the actions" of the prez of Iran's choices, would you?”

Wow Karl that’s exactly what I would consider he made the choice now he will face the consequences. And BTW, I am a strict moderate not a liberal don’t my posts make that obvious?



(Message edited by mayor_sekou on February 24, 2007)
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 6354
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 2:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mayor, while I can see what you're saying, I'm afraid you are digging yourself in deeper. Raising your child in the Jewish faith should not in any way necessitate preparing a child for a holocaust so that the child can "leave the faith" should they decide to avoid the "consequences"

You would seem to equate the USA deciding one day to join forces against Jews and joining in Iran's planned holocaust with the USA attacking Iran for attempting to blow Israel off the map?

After all, it's all about choices, right?

I think this is what is referred to as "moral equivalence" and frankly, seems cuckoo.
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Mayor_sekou
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Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 553
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Your right Karl it shouldn’t have to in a perfect world it wouldn’t be necessary. But unfortunately we live in a world full of sick, racist, anti Semitic, anti Islamic, homophobe and anti Christians who we must take into account when we make the decisions that ultimately shape our lives.

"You would seem to equate the USA deciding one day to join forces against Jews and joining in Iran's planned holocaust with the USA attacking Iran for attempting to blow Israel off the map?"

If I am understanding you correctly I am not equating the two. I am saying that since the US is allied with Israel and (allegedly) does not support genocide. Then if Iran decides to nuke Israel it must accept the consequences of a joint US and Israeli response.

Yeah it is cuckoo. I tend to hate any questions or issues that pertain to morality simply because there is never a definite answer as to what the correct course of action should be.
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 6356
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Alright, Mayor - you're convincing me and I'm going to give you a pass for now, only because of that limited Spartan education. But don't dig any more holes for yourself, and think, think, think. There is a right and wrong in every issue.

And get your graduate degree from Michigan.
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Cheddar_bob
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Username: Cheddar_bob

Post Number: 859
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 3:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

There is a right and wrong in every issue



And if you want to know the correct side of an issue, find out where karl stands. Then do the opposite.
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Ravine
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Username: Ravine

Post Number: 690
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 3:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There goes that binary stuff again. There is not a Right and a Wrong in every issue. Those terms are not even applicable to some issues.

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