  Detroitdecor Member Username: Detroitdecor Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 164.76.104.145 |
Hey everyone, I am doing a project for my Historic Preservation class on African American Street front churches and other interesting building used for churches. I need examples to go out and take pictures of and a little bit of back ground on the church, congregation, or buildings. Does anyone know of some good examples of these type of buildings? One building I am using for my research is a building off of Woodward between 6 and 7. It is now a church but it used to be a movie theater. Do you guys know of exapmles like this in Detroit or Metro Detroit??? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you! :D | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 707 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 141.216.1.4 |
You mean store front churches. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 598 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 209.104.146.146 |
Well, Gumby, how many store front churches aren't located on a street? | ||
Chow Member Username: Chow Post Number: 226 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.109.30.239 |
There is a book that might interest you. It is called 'How the Other Half Worships' by Camilo Jose Vergara. Check it out. http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ ct/0813536820/104-5309334-6147 104?v=glance&n=283155&s=books& v=glance | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4478 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.175.233 |
how about churches of other denominations purchased by Baptist and other predominantly-AA congregations? What immediately comes to mind is the synagogues off of Linwood converted into churches, as well as the former St. John's Armenian Church on Oakman, which is now a missionary Baptist church, but retains even the Armenian lettering over the door. It's an interesting facet of religious worship. One congregation goes, another comes in, sometimes without even adapting the building. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 708 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 204.39.225.141 |
i wasn't meaning to sound as if i was talking down. I was trying to correct a mistake which would look bad in this persons project. Sorry if it came out bad. Just trying to help. | ||
Mplsryan Member Username: Mplsryan Post Number: 115 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 24.26.164.215 |
Aram, another great example is the now defunct St. Cyrils; a massive complex used by a much smaller congregation that in the end couldn't save it. | ||
Spaceboykelly Member Username: Spaceboykelly Post Number: 100 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.246.42.228 |
The creepiest store front church appears in one or more of Michael Moore's films [I can't remember which], but it's called Inner City Christian Outreach, or Inner City Church or something. It's in Flint. There's a badly done & worn painting of an overly muscular Jesus bursting through some chains. (Message edited by spaceboykelly on November 29, 2005) | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4492 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.175.233 |
Mplsryan, I'm well familiar with St. Cyril's. Didn't mention it because it isn't there anymore... | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 304 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 64.79.90.206 |
Drive north on Van Dyke from the Ford Expressway to Mt. Olivet Cemetary and count the storefront churches (mostly abandoned). I counted them once because it is amazing. I think it was around 50. I understand that there is a range of opinion on allowing them. I thinks some city boosters are against the proliferation of the churches and use of the storefronts. I wonder what would be the objection? On the other side, is Detroit a better City for having so many storefront churches? | ||
Detroitdecor Member Username: Detroitdecor Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 164.76.205.79 |
Ok yes I did mean store front churches. I knew what I meant I guess I just need to make sure other know what I meant. STORE FRONT CHURCHES:D Actually, even with my vocabulary faux pas you guys still know what I meant. The information here will be very helpful for my project. The_aram it's exactly what I'm looking for as well churches that start out one denomination and end up a totally different one. That too will support my thesis. So if anyoone knows of examples like that it will be greatly appreciated as well!  | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2570 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 136.181.195.17 |
The former St. Stanislaus, within smelling distance of the incinerator at the Ford & Chrysler freeways, was a Roman Catholic church and school. Last I heard, a Baptist congregation moved into the church and opened a charter school using the old school building. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1202 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
If you go to the "lost synagogue" section of this site, there are some great examples of former Jewish Synagogues that have been converted into Christian churches. | ||
William_x Member Username: William_x Post Number: 47 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 4.165.105.134 |
Detroitdecor!!!! Where on Woodward between 6 mile and 7 mile is a church? From 6 mile going north is Palmer Park (all the way to 7 mile),and on the right side of Woodward from 6 mile to 7 mile there isn't a building that looks like a church.However just south of 6 mile on the left hand side coming from downtown is a church called the revival Tabernacle,which was a XXX-Rated moviehouse many years ago.False information is what starts alots of confusion,and most out of towners and people who live in the surrounding suburbs usually the ones who proudly brag about what they know,and they really don't know nothing.A interesting piece of information is that Detroit have more Streetcorner Bars,Churchs,and Funeral Homes then any other businesses.Detroitdecor that theatre is located here in Highland Park,right at the Highland Park/Detroit city limits on the north (at Woodward & Six Mile) Sorry to you other posters here on this forum,but I believe in posting facts,and not mis-leading information,and believe me I have the research facts to back all my posts up. (Message edited by William_X on December 07, 2005) | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4523 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.175.233 |
Do you not believe in putting spaces between your sentences? Or proper English? Because, quite honestly, your posts are nearly incoherent with the amazingly bad quality of your writing. Not to mention the whole anti-suburbanites schtick was already worn out far before you stumbled your way over here. Take it somewhere else. Hotfudgedetroit.com is a good place to start. | ||
William_x Member Username: William_x Post Number: 68 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 4.165.48.91 |
Again Arab opps Aram I type the way I want to type,and you white folks don't tell me how to type....you get that arab? Don't become a internet bullie Aram. | ||
William_x Member Username: William_x Post Number: 69 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 4.165.48.91 |
Aram do you have a green card? Plus I see you did not see my reply to your ignorant ass post. Understand the differences between whites and blacks ,we have more to say about you wannabe GODS from across 8 mile or from outside of the inner-city area. | ||
Dsmith Member Username: Dsmith Post Number: 74 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 68.41.202.23 |
Why are posters like William tolerated on this site? | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 2366 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.79.100.174 |
I may not agree with what they have to say, but they should always have a right to say it. | ||
William_x Member Username: William_x Post Number: 81 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 4.165.105.228 |
Dsmith Why people like you always butt in other posters business? This is a internet forum,and I have just as much rights to express my opinions,or to fire back in a respectful matter if I choose to do so.Now if I was the kind of poster who call other posters names,and cuss them out then I would agree with you.However your post is invalid,and I suggest you clean your glasses so you can see clearly these posts. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1606 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.105.120 |
Hey William_x, speaking of butting in, why did you start this flaming on this post just because Detroitdecor got a location wrong? That happens on this forum all the time. Wrong locations are not a reason to start suburb bashing. If it was, this forum would be a ruin in the truest sense! Go check out the "Elwood 1989" thread to see how folks handle getting a location wrong (nearly everyone on that post was partly wrong), and the "classy" way we collectively get it right, without starting a flamefest. There are bigger issues to get worked up over! (Message edited by gistok on December 12, 2005) | ||
William_x Member Username: William_x Post Number: 88 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 4.165.45.73 |
Awww Gistok I did not mean to start a fire.All I was doing was stating the real deal Gistok. However Detroitdecor If I hurt your feelings I am indeed sorry.I am a real man who make mistakes at times.Is that better Gistok? lol | ||
Bertz Member Username: Bertz Post Number: 463 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.61.15.89 |
William_x, speak the way you want speak and type the way you want to type, just do not expect people to take you seriously, however, by no means am I implying you should stop. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 5266 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.236.198.22 |
D_decor, Any help I can provide with Revival Tabernacle let me know. I was there when it was founded, wired their first phone system. One of the founding pastors is still there, last I checked. (I stopped in when I moved back from LA four years ago, to see how he was doing, and stumbled into his Sunday tirade against the latest porno haven in the neighborhood...which I just noticed a few days back seems quite prosperous...as is the church, apparently, they've grown into a new building...a fine recent trend in the modern christian experience..."slave yourselves to a large mortgage so money can once again be your god") We had some really funny encounters with people stumbling in thinking it was still an adult movie theater. I was never a member of it, I was in the church that that remaining pastor came from...the little brown church at Woodward and Edwards, across from Temple, that used to be called the Church in the City...founded by the son of David Wilkerson of Cross and the Switchblade fame of NYC. Lotsa memories from Revival Tabernacle... Interesting photo survey would be the empty shells of the abandoned churches...this city is filled with 'em, both large edifices and those storefront ones..."In God's Wake"...what was left behind. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1135 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.227.207.200 |
Gannon, I'm an old (ex?) AGer too. Small world. Tim Delina (sp?) is a great guy over at Revival Tab. One of the few pastors you'll find in metro Detroit who lives with his family in the neighborhood his church is in. Revival Tabernacle is probably one of the best looking conversions to a church you'll see around here. It really looks great. Most church conversion jobs seem to be slapped together and then never maintained. Grand River is a good street to drive down for storefront churches. Lots of them in NW Detroit. At Grand River and Evergreen there is a church for sale, formerly the 8th Church of Christ Science now Emmanuel Grace Temple (or something to that effect). The church has flipped the building several times over the past few years to pull money out of it to fund who knows what (likely the pastor's families homes in Palmer Park and the Detroit Golf Club as well as his fancy cars). Anyways it's a beautiful building but the way it's being marketed you can read between the lines to see that they're pitching it to the Walgreen's developers and not other churches (largely due to the price tag). That's the real historic church preservation in Detroit. How do you reuse a building like that? | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 5267 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.236.198.22 |
Bvos, There are many like us...they evangelize and 'convert' a great number of people, move in some way to squeak out a semi-tangible dawning of spirit, then sit back and count their numbers...scratch their collective heads...and wonder why they haven't grown. Might be one of those hand, foot, eye, stomach things...they may certainly be part of the body...thinking they are the whole body miss that whomever they gather after time may grow into something else and cease staying at that maturity level and move into another church...another part of the body. None ever suspects that the church as they understand it may only be a part of a much larger whole...they always assume that they are IT entirely. In my case, I discovered how they can be a very good '1st Corinthians' organization but never quite understand that '2nd Corinthians' demands a much deeper faith. Easy to chase someone out of your group due to their humanity...much, much harder to then run out and gather them back in later due to your own humanity. Big misunderstandings when you cease thinking that the church is composed of mere humans whose ultimate goal should be a continual flow of spirit through them for the ultimate effect of Love positively affecting creation and rely on the age-old incorrect assumption that they should just be a gaggle of sheep obeying ancient rules. Especially when the rules themselves are greatly misunderstood through years and years of translations directed by doctrine of man rather than Love. It should never be about rules...and always about the people...ultimately ONLY about the flow of Love through willing people into the world. Once it becomes a business then there is little room for Love to work...so many have missed the mark throughout history...yet so few have allowed themselves to be taught directly by Love as to fully understand how screwed up they've been in their good intentions. Luv of money leaves little room for Love. Luv of power leaves room for nothing else. Remember, God is Love. God = Love. That was the foundational equation that so many forget. Such an easy one, too. (Message edited by Gannon on December 13, 2005) | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 5268 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.236.198.22 |
Tim Dilena is a very good man. I certainly respect him...but ultimately recognize that he is a mere human, like the rest of us. Passionate. As easily distracted as the next guy, and surely as blind to the plank in his eye while looking for the dust speck in other's. He is stuck in that whole religious posture, though, I pray he can relax and remember when he simply trusted Love for everything. Never forget a heart-rending sermon he did on pride there...still have the tape...might have to re-listen to that one myself. Soon. Pretty darn humbling. Damn my mere humanity...Love is right, probably should've done us in long ago. It's all good. LOL | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1140 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.39 |
Yes, Tim is definately in the fundamentalist (fundies as my wife and I like to say) mold. He can preach a fire & brimstone sermon with the best of them. However he's a little different than most. He lives what he talks about and lives his life with his heart on his sleeve. Even if you don't agree with his point of view you have to agree that he's very passionate and genuinely cares about HP and the broke down, busted and disgusted. Most fundies I know preach one thing and put on an act like they care while in the pulpit for their poor inner city congregation. After the sermon is over they live by another standard and hop into their luxury car and speed out to West Bloomfield and act like an arogant asshole for the rest of the week. | ||
William_x Member Username: William_x Post Number: 92 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 4.165.12.93 |
LoL @ Gannon I love this part of your post.We had some really funny encounters with people stumbling in thinking it was still an adult movie theater. Gannon it was one of Highland Park's best freak place on the stripe,and that motel is still freak city on the weekends,and hopefully by the church being there it might touch souls.As a member on one of the City of Highland Park official boards,we get complaints from citizens in the area about Deja Vu,and something will soon be doing about that freak joint.Tim made a hit when he opened the church in the freak district of Highland Park.So most of you are saying that TIM is a GOD sent angel to save Highland Park people? If TIM is so interested in Highland Park why don't he move into Highland Park? Bvos the last part of your post you're right on the game.I stop attending any church because of the pimping Pastor,and the poor ass members who is paying for his mortage in West Bloomfield Hills. (Message edited by William_X on December 13, 2005) | ||
Bertz Member Username: Bertz Post Number: 464 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.61.15.89 |
..."get complaints from citizens in the area about Deja Vu,and something will soon be doing about that freak joint." Good I hope you succeed, William_x, because there is nothing I detest more then seeing one of these scum-pits with the exception of burned-out dilapidated early 20th century buildings (which in my opinion are some of the best ever made). Getting this kind of crap out of the Detroit or any city for that matter is definitely a step in the right direction. I believe any business that doesn’t serve the greater good of a community (pawn shops included) should be wiped clean. (Message edited by bertz on December 13, 2005) | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 5279 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.236.198.22 |
I cannot say that Tim is anything near an angel...good book says they don't have sex...and he got married (finally) many years ago. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER was there any HINT of impropriety, but many of the sisters were mistakenly simultaneously distracted and attracted by his strong personality. He is very true, honest, and passionate...and as flesh and blood as any of us. I meant NO disrespect, I consider him highly among the leaders I've known in the Assemblies of God division of Christianity...and many other denominations. I've always been in awe of his energy level...I just transcended his form of religion a number of years ago. I do not denounce any of my previous life, and certainly cannot ever reject any of the perceptions and experiences...I just think they are stuck in a Pharasitical world-view which that half-man, half-God specifically warned against a couple thousand years ago (if the ancient holy writ is accurate, and I have NO reason to doubt it on this point). Plus I think the building program craze that swept through this entire denomination/division over the past ten years was a sick distraction from otherwise good works and even better intentions...many of the AG churches suffered splits and many of the more...um...charismatic members simply drifted away. That was NOT my issue...Church in the City was an renengade church...out from the AG umbrella when David Wilkerson discovered he couldn't FIND anyone in their forties or older in NYC who hadn't been divorced...and that 'rule' for eldership is one the AGs hold VERY dearly to. You'll notice my unwillingness to adhere to unbending rules throughout my postings here. When there are laws and rules that seem wrong I am quick to argue them and probably quicker to apply my strongest passive-aggression against personally following them. In that sense I am an outlaw, on very specific purpose with the best of philosophical intent. I drifted away from active church life for much deeper reasons, and am a far more spiritual and wise man because of the direct teachings I've sought through the spirit...although I must give proper respect to a very special mentor I sat under, an Orthdox Jewish believer in Jesus/Yeshua and professor of philosophy at Wayne State & Henry Ford Community College named Haskell Stone who unfortunately died in 1998. Oddly enough, many times when I speak I hear many of his words from my mouth. Cheers, John | ||
Rms Member Username: Rms Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 141.211.114.43 |
D_decor, there are two fairly large examples of churches on East Grand Blvd that both seem to have once been another denomination. I drive by them often and wonder their history. One is just north of Jefferson before you get to Lafayette, the other is in the block just south of Forest (2 blks south of Gratiot). Both are on the west side of the street and the facades include very large columns. I believe the original congregation name in the gable is covered over by signage with the new name in both cases. As far as a store front church to check out, I think there is an interesting one on E Vernor, north side of the street somewhere btwn McDougall and Mt Elliot. The building looks like it was originally a modest house, then perhaps converted to a corner store??? , and now a small church. At night I love the rickety cross done up in light bulbs. It's so unpretentious. From the cross you know what it is. But here the church is clearly "the people" and not the building. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 5281 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.236.198.22 |
Goodness, Rms, thanks for returning this thread from my dreadful threadjack. WTF is wrong with me??!! Tangential thinking. Lack of real sleep. Sorry, all. There used to be a good collection of storefront churches on Fenkell near Outer Drive or east of Lahser...don't know which one crosses Fenkell...but the biggest one of 'em all was that old bar with the lighthouse tower just west of Telegraph on (I think) the north side of Six Mile Road...but that MUST be Redford at that point. Although that one on the North-EAST side of Telegraph at the Jefferies Freeway was pretty huge, I think it turned into a Salvation Army drop-off store. There is a small strip joint in the strip mall (heh, couldn't resist) in the same parking lot...I'm talking of the northern-most building in that lot nearer that No-Tell MOtel. Better?! Oh yeah, and one on the south side of Vernor East of Junction...an outreach of the old Fairlane Assembly/World Outreach...was an old movie theater...and turned into a fairly successful center for the neighborhood when gang activity was peaking in the late 80s/early 90s. Cheers! | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 319 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 64.79.90.206 |
However, Gannon, the Outreach people in the old Stratford Theatre have done just what so many other storefront churches have done - they've walked away and left the building to rot. Not to say that the Archdiocese is any better. The AoD sold churches like St. Cyril's for $1 to congregations and churches that couldn't possibly keep the buildings up but had big dreams. So those buildings have gone way down too. | ||
William_x Member Username: William_x Post Number: 96 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 4.165.12.93 |
Bertz there is codes in the City Charter that can close that freak place,but I believe the Charter reads that the citizens have to get involved in the closing,and I will look more into that Bertz if you like me too.However Highland Park City Hall will close Dec 23rd,and won't reopen until Jan 3rd,2006. Gannon, I believe in a power...I don't know if it can be called GOD,or does this power really work through these ministers,and many believe in what it say in the bible....Beware of Wolves who come to you in sheep clothing aka false prophets.Rms like I have always said on this side of 8 mile,and the east side of Telegraph there is more Bars,Storefront Churches,and Funeral Homes. Excluding McDevils,White Lobster,White Caskets, and Burger Hang. | ||
Bertz Member Username: Bertz Post Number: 465 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.61.15.89 |
Gannon, yes I did mean succeed and not secede for I do not wish William_x to withdraw from anything. So much for not proofreading my post and yes the problem has been corrected. | ||
William_x Member Username: William_x Post Number: 102 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 4.165.90.178 |
Thanks Bertz. As a Detroiter whom parents still live near that place,as a Community Person in both(Detroit/Highland Park)I can't help but wondering why do parents allow these kind of businesses to operate in their neighborhood? I have nothing against what church a person belongs to each to their own as far as I am concerned.In the City Charter of Detroit it states under the Zoning dept ruling that a bar or liquor have to be so many feet away from a church building,and these Pastors who open a church in a area know what they are doing.In closing since TIM is a church leader the church is suppose to be helpful in its community,and since he's the Pastor he should see to it that the freak club is closed down by the City of Highland Park.Also two doors north of the church is the freak motel....The Crown where's the respect? As a matter of fact there is 5 churches surrounding Deja Vu. (Message edited by William_X on December 14, 2005) (Message edited by William_X on December 14, 2005) | ||
Northend Member Username: Northend Post Number: 463 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 69.212.227.66 |
Deja Vu now holds a holy place in my heart | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 5290 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.236.198.22 |
William_x, I also cannot give this 'Other' a name (although I call for and appeal to It using all the ones I've ever learned, just to be safe, heh), and run screaming from any group that claims to have exclusive domain over access to It. I do believe that for some reason this Power works through mere humans that simply make themselves available...I have no other understanding or explanation. Every moment, each mere human seems able to make the choice to go with the flow, be distracted/consumed--missing it, or even actively FIGHT it. Ministers have no lock on wisdom from God, and nobody has to go to them to understand the ways of God. If anything, they are usually only able to pass on what little they understood of what they were taught...and even that falls prey to the limitations of inter-human communication. Anybody can CHOOSE to search that way, but there will always be that chance of misunderstanding or worse getting in the way of a complete encounter or understanding. (why NOT go to this Being directly and expect some Divine direction?!) Organized religion is great at introducing the concept of God but then usually does their damnedest to keep their flock from actually encountering It...let alone each individual learning how to get out of the way and allow It's spirit to flow through them and positively affect the world. Not to say good doesn't happen through members of these religions, it obviously does...another mystery of the power within God's grace. When religion becomes a business...seems then the highest liklihood of little to NO spirit. I guess cash flow is contrary to spirit flow. It is always good to be a skeptic...keep looking for those wolves but don't let it get in the way of enjoying the company of sheep. Cheers! Southwestmap, I haven't been around them since they opened the place...had a couple good experiences there...but disassociated myself with the group soon afterwards. Shame, but I'm not surprised. | ||
William_x Member Username: William_x Post Number: 104 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 4.165.90.178 |
Gannon I really respect your post I just read, and its full of nothing but the truth.I look at Benny Himes,and I wonder what's his game plan. However I do believe in a Higher Power,and this higher power is something I can't explain,and whatever it is believe me it work. Thanks Again Gannon |
