  Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 904 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 136.2.1.153 |
This looks like a book worth picking up! See article in today's Metro Times: http://www.metrotimes.com/edit orial/story.asp?id=8550 Also check out the pictures at the bottom of the article. | ||
Mclite Member Username: Mclite Post Number: 20 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 216.216.62.36 |
It is a fantastic book. Worth every penny. Keep your eyes open for the authors' appearances around town. They are fascinating to hear speak. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 232 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.10.63.140 |
anyone know the cost? sounds great | ||
Jenay Member Username: Jenay Post Number: 104 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 68.41.224.19 |
I have the book as well. http://search.barnesandnoble.c om/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp? userid=If6vurWCtL&isbn=0814332 706&itm=1 | ||
Carptrash Member Username: Carptrash Post Number: 1363 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 72.16.51.242 |
How much ink does it devote to Parducci, Pewabic and Rowland? Sort of my test cases. eeeeek | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1535 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.105.182 |
.... and also C. Howard Crane! Fox, State, Opera House, United Artists, Madison, Adams, Majestic Theatres (as well as the office buildings in which they are located), Orchestra Hall, Olympia Arena, Lafayette Building.... (Message edited by gistok on December 01, 2005) | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 905 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 136.2.1.103 |
Good questions... from the MT article, it sounds like substantial attention is paid to Rowland. Not sure about the others, will have to get the book.  | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3207 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
Unlike some forumers, the authors are able to see beyond one narrow time period and one narrow genre of architecture. They also explicitly worked to ensure that, with one exception, they only featured active, occupied buildings that reflect the intention of the architect so no Lafayette, no Fine Arts, no Book Cadillac... Quite an amazing piece. Before one judges the books for what is and is not in the book, one should carefully and thoughtfully read the introduction. | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 371 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 172.150.70.44 |
Skulker states: I'm not sure but I think some preservationists just got insulted. That's OK, those building hugger asshats deserve it. Just kidding. Skulker, in spite of your best efforts, I think that a lot of perservationists think that you're OK | ||
Carptrash Member Username: Carptrash Post Number: 1366 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 72.16.51.242 |
Well I certainly am not insulted by Sk's observation. I just [call me shallow] am more interested in some buildings than others [or to paraphrase Geo. Orwell, "All buildings are created equel, but some are more equel than others."] and like to make sure that I'm getting what I want before plopping down $50 or whatever. Probably if I had Skulker's income this would not be such an issue. eeeeeek | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1538 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.81.250 |
Yeah, his sharing of the knowledge of the workings of city government make his preservationist cheap shots tolerable. (Message edited by gistok on December 01, 2005) | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 5099 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.42.168.211 |
It's my observation that he takes shots, but not cheap shots. Skulker articulates the reasons for his criticism of Detroit's preservation community. By and large, the assertions Skulker made in the Hudson block thread about the ineptitude of the preservationists over the Statler and Book Cadillac went unchallenged. And he was masterful in his relating the facts regarding public funding of the stadiums with DaninDC. Skulker rocks. His wang is mighty and his hat is assless. | ||
Marcnbyr Member Username: Marcnbyr Post Number: 611 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.13.13 |
"His wang is mighty and his hat is assless." Classic! I have to back up ItsJeff...Skulker takes shots, but they aren't cheap. I think what he was refering to is the fact that a great many on this board have openly expressed a great disdain for any post-depression architecture. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1539 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.72.212 |
Before you guys start fawning all him, there is enough ineptitude to go around betweent the city and the preservationists! My forte is theatres..... I wonder how many theatres are in that book from 1930-50?? The one great theatre from the 1950's was Ford Auditorium, and look how wonderfully the city is taking care of that one! (Message edited by gistok on December 01, 2005) | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 5101 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.42.168.211 |
Agreed. I always thought Ford Auditorium was a very cool piece of architecture and it's a damn shame that it's just rotting away. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1541 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.72.176 |
Itsjeff, there's one area that preservationists have probably done more good than most people realize. That would be loft development. Back about 4 years ago (or thereabouts) Katherine Clarkson, the former Preservation Wayne Executive Director, was sponsoring Loft Development Workshops. That was where PW got loft development experts from around the country to come to Detroit to speak in front of development folks back before it really took off downtown. These workshops talked about tax credits, etc., and got a lot of folks to thinking about developing some of the buildings as lofts. Now how much good all those workshops did is not quantifiable. But they did help downtown get the ball rolling. Granted preservationists are not by any means perfect, and some of their actions may have unanticipated consequences (as Skulker has pointed out), but they also did a lot of good. I too have been impressed with Skulker's knowledge and perspective (but we can't let it go to his head ;-). | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 5104 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.42.168.211 |
When it comes to keeping Skulker's ego in check, I'm way ahead of the curve. | ||
Carptrash Member Username: Carptrash Post Number: 1369 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 72.16.51.242 |
I don't even want to ask. eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3208 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
Huh. There were no cheap nor expensive shots intended at anybody. A "Hang on to your horses and lets judge the book by the intent and interests of the authors and not by our personal favorite styles" was all that was intended. Gistok, you and others like Caprtrash have a great passion for some pretty specific styles and periods of architecture and thats great. Share that passion by all means! Unfortunately that sometimes translates into wholesale condescension and dismissal of styles that are not of your liking. We have seen it play out over and over again on this forum. My comments were soley to remind folks that the intention of the book was a survey of more than 150 years of diverse and very high quality architecture. As Zbaren points out, Detroit has a very strong track record of excellence across styles - across genres - and across decades and centuries. The point of the book is that there is an amazing collection here. Even if a person is not fond of certain styles (I personally think Metabolist buildings are annoying, but I see the whys and where fores of them.), that person ought to be able to appreciate the fact that masters of that style were practising here in Detroit and leaving behind stunning examples. At the end of the day, as in love as I am with the Book Cadillac, I am even more in awe of the collection of modernist classics through out the area. This thread seemed to be drifting towards a "They didn't spend enough time on my favorite genre! They are asshats!" sort of theme as usually happens here. To do that misses the point of the book entirely. BTW - Some may think I am anti-preservation, when nothing could be further from the truth. My criticisms of certain aspects and actions of the preservation community here should not be viewed as anti-preservation, but tough love to get folks to step up to the next level of understanding and action. When THAT happens we will begin to see some real momentum. I ain't no Mooch when it comes to coaching so suck it up if I come across as harsh sometimes. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 609 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 209.104.146.146 |
I picked this book up yesterday and read it last night. My overall impressions are very positive, though I wish they could have captured even more Detroit gems. One wish I had while reading it was that the authors had indicated current occupents of the buildings pictured. I suppose that was the historian in me looking out for my future coworkers. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 2005 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.167.59.189 |
Craig Fahle had an interview with the author today. He has Detroit roots and, like so many of us, woke up one day to find out we were living in an art gallery of abandoned and vanishing masterpieces. He also touched on the well known Detroit negativism, "You're going to Detroit; I'm so sorry." In reference to Skulker's polemic, it was inevitable it would gravitate to that orphan Ford Auditorium. While made of good materials, it has all the exterior charm of a big box store. It is is unfortunately placed and the treatment of it location which turns its back on a dramatic riverfront setting adds to its insult. I won't begin with the acoustics. Just take a walk behind it to see what its ugly neglect of that opportunity. Instead of a grand esplanade to the river, we are treated to an ugly lifeless maze of concrete. It would be nice if could be airlifted to some college campus, but right now it is no more that a site blocking waste of public space. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 2799 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 24.22.82.162 |
Context my friends, context. The Ford Auditorium must be viewed in the context of a Master plan for civic improvrement of the 1950s. It is an ensemble of buildings, roadways, civic plazas, outdoor sculpture, and urban transportation viewed in toto. Lowell longs for those days of wharves, streetcars, Vernor's and the Bob-lo boats. To jjaba, the Ford Auditorium is no more offensive in its current state than older 1920s ruins. The main point is that they are ruins, the subject he champions here daily. In another spot, jjaba gives the readers a full dissertation on the beaudy, the history, of the Henry and Edsel Ford Auditorium. He notes the intergration of the building with the roadways, with the expressways, with the modernist ties of architecture and the automobile. Nobody back then even thought of riverside views. You want views of the Detroit River, go to Belle Isle or Canada. Oy veyesmere, they've got views to die for. jjaba | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4499 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.175.233 |
Because it wasn't going to change anything if we did argue with him. He is entitled to his opinion about a group he knows little about, and we're entitled to our viewpoint that his opinions are based in falsehood. But why waste everyone's time in arguing with him when he's just going to get more defensive and petty? | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1546 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.6.49 |
Hey Lowell, I agree with you wholeheartedly about Ford Auditorium... but something that Preservation Wayne former executive director Katherine Clarkson once said keeps popping into my head...."one of these days in the future someone is going to have to declare one of those ugly shoebox mall cinema multiplexes a historic landmark epitomizing the architecture of the late 20th century".  It's just that Ford Auditorium, for all its faults (especially accoustics), was the best theatre space built in Detroit in the mid 20th century (1930-60). And since then only the new Fisher Theatre has been produced as high quality theatre space. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3210 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
This thread is not about me, cicumstances surrounding projects or my "opinions". This thread is about a wonderful book produced by two very talented individuals. Lets try to stay focused on that. Here, let me demonstrate. I love the little touches in the book like using a carved face from the decorative surround from a niche in the DIA at the start of paragraphs.... The angry killer dolphins in the Wayne County building ae hilarious. I think they are representations of the beasts that leapt from the Detroit River and ate Chauncey Hurlbuts head off the Memorial Gate. Tha angry cobblers on the Fyfe Buildng crack me up. I agree with them that the DPL Main Branch is much nicer than the DIA. The stormy sky and green water in James Scott Fountain is completely atmospheric and a nontradtional shot. One of my favorites. The rythym of the arches and doorways on the DIA interior detail is very nice touch. The Pebobscot detail shot is one I have not seen the likes of before and is amazing. The details on the Rackam Building make it look like its in Greece somewhere. When did WSU put a purple rug in the McGregor Center? | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1303 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.212.61.186 |
In that case, keep the coaching coming and feel free to make it as brutal as you like. Just remember that, with rare exceptions, the preservation community in Detroit is a 100% volunteer operation. Everything that we do gets juggled between work/school, family and, oh yeah, trying to have a life. Along that line, at the FoBC's most recent meeting, we set a goal to raise enough money to buy and rehab a small to medium-sized historic property. Anyway, my apologies for a near thread-jacking. I now return the discussion to Sharoff and Zbaren's book. | ||
Carptrash Member Username: Carptrash Post Number: 1376 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 72.16.51.242 |
thanks skulker - you just ran down some of my favorite CP buildings - and have me very interested in the Penobscot detail. eeeeek | ||
Sumotect Member Username: Sumotect Post Number: 143 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 64.243.32.9 |
The swastikas on the Penobscot are very interesting. A traditional native american design that the natzis ripped off. You would think they might have chisled them off back in the forties. Luckily the Penobscots design rotates counter to the logo of the third reich. | ||
Sumotect Member Username: Sumotect Post Number: 144 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 64.243.32.9 |
I have been hearing about this book for over a year and have been eagerly awaiting it. Ordered it from amazon just after it came out and it is taking forever for it to arrive. The change in point of view that the authors give us is very refreshing. Sometimes you need someone who lives outside your world to really explain it to you. It is like if you lived inside a refrigerator box all your life and never ventured outside of it. You would need someone to tell you; "Hey you're living in a refrigerator box!". | ||
Carptrash Member Username: Carptrash Post Number: 1378 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 72.16.51.242 |
on the subject of swastikas [which I don't think the Nazi's ripped off from Native Americas - but that's another story] in architecture, I just discovered an interesting building in Raton NM that was built as the Swastika Hotel in 1927 or so, but had the name changed to something else in less than a decade. However the swastica designs still remain. Sumotect - a year [opinion] is toooo long to wait for a book from Amazon. eeeek | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 687 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.212.226.28 |
it is an ancient symbol for well-being that the nazi's "adapted" for their own use.
i'm not too sure about the native american usage, but in the twentieth century many architects associated this symbol with native american themes. the middle school i went to was built in 1922 and used this "style". it had a large inlaid swastika in the floors of every entryway. the original intention was that this symbol was to bring good fortune to all those who entered, or left, the building. of course, during the war and every year afterwards, it was covered with large rugs/mats. ps. the name of my middle school's sport teams were "the redskins". has since been changed to "the waves". | ||
Jasoncw Member Username: Jasoncw Post Number: 43 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 148.61.248.90 |
I'd buy the book but it's really expensive Plus I can just visit most of the buildings myself, heheh. | ||
Hagglerock Member Username: Hagglerock Post Number: 171 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 12.214.243.76 |
Not everyone has that luxury Jasoncw, This book looks amazing, for someone who yearns for every site and picture of Detroit, I can't wait to get my copy. I would also be ecstatic if Lowell turned his webisodes into book form. hint hint -to add to rsa's post the swastika was also used a sun symbol, where many cultures (except the Nazi's) had it rotating counter- clockwise, which was in reference to the sun rising in the east and setting in the west as viewed on the ground. To Hindus it's a common and important religous symbol. They adore all the entrance ways in my father in law's temple in India. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1551 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.147.14 |
The swastika was also an ancient Roman symbol. I remember seeing one of the few "legal" swastika designs in Germany. It was an ancient Roman mosaic floor in a Roman Museum in Cologne Germany. I believe that more than likely the Nazi's swastika design was based on Roman origins, due to their "3rd Reich". The "1st Reich" was the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE of 800AD-1806 (the 1000 year reich). And the "2nd Reich" was the Prussian originated GERMAN EMPIRE of 1871-1918. (Coinage of 1871-1918 say "DEUTSCHES REICH".) | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4504 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.175.233 |
It's also a Japanese symbol. When the Winter Olympics were in Nagano, NBC had their main broadcasting desk set up in front of an ancient temple that had a swastika rather prominently over the door. On day 2 they opened their broadcasts by saying that they got complaints, but that it was an ancient Japanese symbol and was not placed on the building in the context of the war. | ||
J32885 Member Username: J32885 Post Number: 15 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 198.109.96.3 |
I've also got that book aswell. Bought it at the WSU Student Bookstore with the new updated version of the AIA Detroit Building Guide. | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 1045 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.122.57 |
Finally...the book is available from Borders in Birmingham. This is the only place I've seen the book available for purchase so far. I had to resist the temptation to page through...since I know that Santa is bringing me a copy (ordered directly from Wayne State Press to insure Christmas availability!). Also...available only from Borders...a half-size Arcadia title published for Borders...called Nostalgia Views of Detroit, full of vintage photos of Detroit, authored by David Lee Poremba, only $9.99. | ||
Everydayislikesunday Member Username: Everydayislikesunday Post Number: 139 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.41.153.99 |
Meet authors Robert Sharoff and William Zbaren and sip a Sanders hot fudge hot chocolate at a book signing event at Pure Detroit on Wednesday, December 21, 2005. Pure Detroit is located in the lobby of the magnificent Guardian Building, 500 Griswold, Detroit, MI 48226. The event will run from 12:00-1:30PM, and individuals who purchase American City will receive a complimentary cup of coffee or $1 off a new Sanders hot fudge hot chocolate from Rowland Café, also located in the Guardian lobby. Festive music will be provided by Latin jazz group Brazil & Beyond. Overwhelmed by the sheer beauty of the buildings they encountered on a visit to downtown Detroit, writer Sharoff and photographer Zbaren were inspired to create American City: Detroit Architecture, 1845—2005, the first new large- format book on the city's architecture in more than thirty years. Detroit’s public buildings—its museums, libraries, schools, and monuments—are second to none in terms of their overall scale, materials, and detailing. In 90 stunning full-color photographs, American City documents the innovative features of fifty of Detroit’s most impressive buildings. Accompanying text identifies and describes each building, while an introductory essay offers an overview of the city’s architectural history and outlines the social forces and the personalities that helped shape the city’s built environment. American City: Detroit Architecture, 1845–2005 showcases a Detroit that might surprise many readers and bring long- overdue attention to the city’s heritage of fine design. William Zbaren’s photographs have appeared in the New York Times and other national publications. His work has also been featured in several gallery exhibitions. As a designer, he has worked on numerous national advertising and corporate image campaigns. Robert Sharoff writes about architecture and real estate for the New York Times, Chicago Magazine, and other publications. For more information about this event, please contact: Shawn Santo, Pure Detroit. Phone: (313) 963-1440; E-mail: rowlandcafe at yahoo dot com To interview the author and photographer, or for more information on this title, please contact: Sarah Murphy, Promotions Manager, Wayne State University Press, The Leonard N. Simons Building, 4809 Woodward Avenue, Detroit, Michigan 48201-1309; Phone: (313) 577-4603; Fax: (313) 577-6131; E-mail: murphysa at wayne dot edu (Message edited by everydayislikesunday on December 20, 2005) |
