Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 I96 Express and Local? Previous Next
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Jerome81
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Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 835
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 64.142.86.133
Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 5:16 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You know, I don't know I've EVER driven 96 from 275 into the city, or the way out. Maybe I did when I was a little kid, but I don't remember. Used to come with my granparents from Holland to visit family in Grosse Pointe park. This was back in probably 85-ish. I don't know if 696 was finished or if we took the Lodge to 94 or what the routing was. But maybe we took 96 the whole way? I don't really know.

But anyway, I just read that 96 has express lanes and local lanes between telegraph and the davison in both directions. My questions are 1) why are there express and local lanes on this freeway? 2) why is this the ONLY freeway in Detroit that uses this setup? 3) why is it only this short distance that has them and not all the way to downtown?

I am most familiar with express and local when living in Chicago. They have them on the Kennedy up to the Kennedy/Edens split and on the Dan Ryan up to about 18th street and down to the Skyway cutoff.

But I found this really odd. Is 96 the most heavily travelled freeway in metro detroit? Was it at some time?

Oh, and the other question, is why is there that "kink" near the davison where it goes to the right then loops back to the left (from the perspective of looking north on a map)? That seemed odd too.....

Anyway, just hoping for a history lesson here.
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2217
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 199.74.87.131
Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 5:24 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it was an experiment. Lots of people live out in Ann Arbor and Northwest suburbs, so they tried to figure out how to manuever traffic into and from Downtown Detroit.
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Jerome81
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Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 836
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 64.142.86.133
Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 5:25 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another question, but not I96 related:

Charlevoix and Vernor Hwy. What is the reasoning behind having these two opposite one-way streets on the east side? Was this ever the main east-west travel route? I would think that Jefferson would be primary and Mack secondary. Is there any value to using these roads over Jefferson and Mack? I always hate the lights on Jefferson.

Never really realized how deserted that area bounded by Connor, Alter, Jefferson and Kercheval is. Looking on google satellite its almost open fields over there.

So sad to think areas like this all over the city used to be filled wall to wall with homes....
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2219
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 199.74.87.131
Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 5:28 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm assuming Vernor and Charlevoix existed long before the construction of Intersate 94. You can't have all traffic move on Jefferson, so you create one-way streets to help ease the flow of traffic. Remember, lots of people back then worked in Downtown Detroit.
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Huggybear
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Username: Huggybear

Post Number: 89
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 69.219.119.24
Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 12:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

You know, I don't know I've EVER driven 96 from 275 into the city, or the way out. Maybe I did when I was a little kid, but I don't remember. Used to come with my granparents from Holland to visit family in Grosse Pointe park. This was back in probably 85-ish. I don't know if 696 was finished or if we took the Lodge to 94 or what the routing was. But maybe we took 96 the whole way? I don't really know.


The express terminates in the Livernois/Davison area and as best I can tell, the express was designed to serve Chrysler's Highland Park complex. What is missing is the link from I-96/Livernois/Davison to where the Davison expressway is.

Funnt thing is that the Davison (Ave) comes all the way to the Southfield Freeway - had it connected Southfield with 94 (as it was apparently originally designed to do), there may have been no 696.

But the people who could confirm this are dead.
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 696
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 152.163.100.195
Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 2:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I-94 in Chicago also has express lanes. The thing with express and local lanes on a highway, is they take up a lot of room, which means more neighborhoods destroyed.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 1560
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.105.242
Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 5:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Apparently express and local lanes are where 2 freeways were supposed to merge into one. That was the original intent with the Davison, but it was never completed between the Lodge and the Jeffries. I-75 and I-96 have it similar between the Ambassador Bridge and where I-75 takes an eastern turn. For at least a mile there are 4 sets of lanes.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2695
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 7:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Even then, Detroit's freeway system was over-sized, and you really fill it now. It's really unfortunate that the city was carved up as a freeway experiment. And then, LA took the idea and took it to the next level. That system is ridiculous.
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Mbr
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Username: Mbr

Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 69.246.43.231
Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 12:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone think that anything can be done to make it so that the freeways don't seem like giant barriers? I'm talking specifically about incorporating parks, retail, or other pedestrian uses on select overpasses. I would start with I75 downtown at woodward. If it didn't cost too much it would make a great link between the downtown and midtown area.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2701
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 12:55 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, cap them like other cities have done over certain stretchs. That's pretty expensive, though, and our leaders don't have the stomach for it. They are more concerned with widening freeways, a totally backwards idea seeing as how it doesn't really cut down on congestion in most situations.
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Digitaldom
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Username: Digitaldom

Post Number: 354
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 67.149.108.143
Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 1:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Turn the express lanes into mass transit... No funding... Not enough traffic to justify it though...
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Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc

Post Number: 1099
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 138.88.216.102
Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 1:54 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like the idea of starting by removing the local lanes from I-96. I always found they were a bit unnecessary.

I would open up more land for development, but then again, you would have to spend money to re-establish exits. I'm thinking the land reclaimed could be used in part for a commuter rail line out to Novi and Brighton.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1056
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 141.213.173.94
Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 2:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I love the one-way setup of Charlevoix and Vernor. Nice routes for zipping from St. Jean to St. Aubin really quick.

I wish there were fewer lights too.

E. Warren also is one way going west for a long ways, with Forest carrying traffic east.

Detroit is just cool like this.
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Mikeydbn
Member
Username: Mikeydbn

Post Number: 266
Registered: 04-2004
Posted From: 35.11.141.32
Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 2:10 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like how we are discussing the removal/reuse of the express lanes after a 2 year project that just completely re-built them.
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Jsmyers
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Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1268
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 10:56 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This might help:

http://www.michiganhighways.or g/

And Danindc, there are already rail links from Detroit to Novi and Brighton (also Livonia, Plymouth, Northville, and Wixom)
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Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc

Post Number: 1100
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.100.158.10
Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 11:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought so. I haven't looked at the map in a while.

The local lanes still get to go, right?
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Amy_p
Member
Username: Amy_p

Post Number: 607
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.17
Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 12:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I like the idea of starting by removing the local lanes from I-96. I always found they were a bit unnecessary.


You obviously don't drive to and from downtown in rush hour everyday, Danindc.
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 1101
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.100.158.10
Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 12:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I used to. Traffic was never that bad on I-96 through the stretch with local and express lanes.
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Amy_p
Member
Username: Amy_p

Post Number: 608
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.17
Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 1:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess after a year of commuting in 10-mile-an-hour construction, the suggestion that we remove those lanes because we don't need them are fighting words! :-)
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Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1269
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 1:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have to question what benefit would result in closing them.

* Land in most parts of that area is not that valuable.
* Traffic would increase, thought the value of that is subjective.
* There is a real cost to doing the work.

I think on balance it is not a very good idea. Remember that large sections of this area is industrial in nature.
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Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon

Post Number: 5194
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 70.236.198.22
Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 1:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I finally drove I-96 after over a year of specific conditioning from MDOT to try and remove it from my travel lexicon...


...and realized that the express lanes are racist.
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Island
Member
Username: Island

Post Number: 7
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 207.91.212.254
Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 2:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe the Local lanes are posted for 55mph, so a legal merge from Express to Local is interesting...
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Quickdrawmcgraw
Member
Username: Quickdrawmcgraw

Post Number: 27
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 63.77.247.130
Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 8:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is done. Personally, it should have been similar to Chicago to flow with the appropriate traffic (a omni-directional dedicated express lane) with 3 lanes and a merging lane for the local traffic. Yes, it would have taken up less land. But alas, Detroit is stuck with it. And who knows. Maybe a light rail train can travel down I-96 from Downtown to the western suburbs.
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Mrkick
Member
Username: Mrkick

Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.73.59.123
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 7:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm glad I'm not the only one to notice that the drive on davison from 96 to the davison freeway or to southbound lodge (and vice versa) is irritating. It should have been planned better.
I also thought at one time that the express lanes were racist but the neighnorhoods off of 96 between Davison (where it ends or start) to the 75 interchange have exits so i dont think so.
I agree with all of Jsmyers points too costly, no benefit
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Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon

Post Number: 5237
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 70.236.198.22
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 1:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mrkick,

Welcome. My sense of humor is as obscure as it gets sometimes...and it seems that the race card gets played often here to the detriment of our threaded e-conversations. I am one of the worst of the thread-jackers, with my circular or exponential thought process spinning off so many tangents.

But...that 'racist' observation DID dawn on me while driving out to my Livonia friend's house one day (and did't we have fun talking about that white suburb's rejection of SMART and fighting Walmart because of the 'type of people' they would attract?!) and I thought regular readers would jump on my silly attempt at humor.

I'm particularly attentive of divisions in society, this one at the Interstate level is made from concrete. You are right that it could have been much worse...and it was all designed for safety anyways, traffic flows much better until those least-understood merge signs appear.

Cheers!
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Mrkick
Member
Username: Mrkick

Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.248.33.53
Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 11:28 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Our skyline is beautiful, not to say that change is bad but lets move outward instead of upward. Lets fill what we have instead of building a new one wich may leave the ones we have even more depleted.

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