Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 What if this class existed for Metro Detroit adults? Previous Next
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Tetsua
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Username: Tetsua

Post Number: 437
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 64.252.152.190
Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 6:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just read this article on the freep about how suburban, and city high schoolers are taking a class/forum where they basically talk about the different stereotypes of the regions where they come from.


quote:

"They're not as I imagined them," she said. "They're nice and they have good points to make. You learn a lot from them."




http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=2005512130392
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 5282
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 70.236.198.22
Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 6:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can the pre-requisite be that nobody is allowed to generalize and use the word they and them?!
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Tetsua
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Username: Tetsua

Post Number: 438
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 64.252.152.190
Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 6:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Geez, I think that kinda talk just comes with the territory.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 5283
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 70.236.198.22
Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 6:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Heh. I know, that's why I'd bring it to people's attention...that is the first paradigm shift, stopping the lumping of all under their perceived pigmentation, religion, gender, etc. along with all the attendant groupings of expectations...real from previous experience or imagined.

It is human nature to group from previous perception, that might be how our ancestors survived attacks in the wild after the first scare...but it cannot and should not apply to human interaction.
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Marcnbyr
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Username: Marcnbyr

Post Number: 613
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.13.13
Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 6:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Some people, he said, simply tolerate other races.

"It doesn't have to be tolerated. It has to be accepted," Andrew said."


At least some of them are getting the point...
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Super_d
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Username: Super_d

Post Number: 433
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 69.245.76.200
Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 6:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

clap' clap' clap'___ board the train for racial harmony! Is this what we call progress!

Personally speaking, in a culture where race has shaped the criteria by which we(blacks) have been judged, where we have been denied the possibility of enjoying the fruits of our talents, and where the rules of fair play have been put against us__ a program like that is truly laughable.

White perspectives on race have always set the limits for what is accepted as common sense or received wisdom on this subject.

The tough truth is that any resolution of racial problems for whites often results in the deepening racial problems for us(blacks)

super d(motordetroit)
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Northend
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Username: Northend

Post Number: 434
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 69.212.227.66
Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 6:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Metro Detroit: world capital of racism...and reverse racism.
clap' clap' clap'
at least we're #1 in something!
:-)
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Detroitduo
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Username: Detroitduo

Post Number: 379
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 84.156.18.83
Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 6:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So, if it's such a farce, what's your suggestion? I'm serious... not being an ass. If you think this is laughable, then you must have a better plan in mind. I'm curious what that is. I can guess I will like your idea better than this... but do share.
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Northend
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Username: Northend

Post Number: 435
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 69.212.227.66
Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 6:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

who?
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Detroitduo
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Username: Detroitduo

Post Number: 381
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 84.156.18.83
Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 6:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

super d
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Mbr
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Username: Mbr

Post Number: 11
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 216.144.206.2
Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 6:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Super_d, you may need to clarify. I don't understand how a resolution of racial problems can be bad for anyone involved, or at least make anyone worse off.

Isn't something better than nothing?
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 1417
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 129.9.163.106
Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 7:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think all adults already took the class. It's called kindergarden. Isn't that where we were all supposed to learn to get along with each other.
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Northend
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Username: Northend

Post Number: 436
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 69.212.227.66
Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 7:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

SuperD///Race has indeed shaped the criteria anyone is judged on in the country (blacks, and other "colored" people: asians, hispanics to name a few). As discussed in previous threads, other "dark pigmentations" have done very well without having a favorable start either. Even blacks in other N.American cities are not bitching nearly as much as their fellow Detroiters.
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Detroitduo
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Username: Detroitduo

Post Number: 382
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 84.156.18.83
Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 7:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speaking of which... Ndavies... it's beer time. I'm in town on Friday. :-)
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 1418
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.212.215.89
Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 8:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excellent, I'll see you sometime this weekend then.
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Super_d
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Username: Super_d

Post Number: 434
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 205.188.116.201
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 3:16 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

///'Northend' stated,"...even blacks in other N.American cities are not bitching nearly as much as their fellow Detroiters."///

'Northend' respectfully__ I know your are not that naive to believe your last assumption.

Your observation assumes that black and white perspectives on race share an equal starting point of reasonable bias___ the problem with that assumption is that it neglects the history of how black and white interest were unequally weighted in determining what was looked at as reasonable in the first place. White folks internally possess the power to deny legitimacy, logic and persuasiveness of Black beliefs about race. Unlike other races, we are often made to feel foolish, ignorant, stupid and insane__ for the racial values we hold.

I typically don't ask whites to understand our reasoning___ that would be counterintuitive___ that is to say, it would demand a denial of the claim to ethical innocence that coverts white privilage and supremacy while reinforcing black inequality.

///'Detroitduo'/// In order to fix what is fundamentally wrong with race in america__ those who had the biggest share in making things bad, must bear a greater responsiblity in making things better___ whites who have benefited, explicitly or unconsciously from racial inequality must now be stronger in rejecting a belief in moral equivalency of black and white views about race.

///'Mbr'/// two historical maneuvers of 'so-called' racial progress would be busing and affirmative action__all busing did was help accelerate patterns of white flight causing residential segregation afflicting the black communities economically and institutionally--and affirmative action had a similiar effliction, due to the opportunity for black upward mobility which insidioulsy has deracinated and denuded our communities of leaders and role models.


super d(motordetroit)
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Melissa
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Username: Melissa

Post Number: 7
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 24.126.160.135
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 5:21 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the class is a step in the right direction. I like the concept of expressing one's views about a particular race directly to someone of that culture opposed to harboring discussions among one's peers. Ignorance transforming into awareness is always a positive move.
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Super_d
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Username: Super_d

Post Number: 441
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 69.245.76.200
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 7:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's simply another feeble attempt to consciously and imperfectly 'fix what is broke'__ whites will have to have a major overhaul in their beliefs and values to reverse the institution of racism.

super d(motordetroit)
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 2114
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.202.227.12
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 7:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

in order for racism to disappear then white people will have to admit (the majority that is ) that white priviledge exists, then once they admit it exists, then will they let it go for true equality?
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East_detroit
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Username: East_detroit

Post Number: 451
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 141.217.108.54
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 9:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The problem is that the majority doesnt control the corporations.

Heck, the majority doesnt even vote.
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Alsodave
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Username: Alsodave

Post Number: 697
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 24.221.73.69
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 11:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Super_d and D_stylin--excellent points.
The entire issue about "race" has been constructed and controlled by white people. In order to have an open and honest dialogue about healing racism, the majority has to let go and be taught--no hemming, hawing, "but you guys do this", reverse racism claims, etc. Sit back, listen and LEARN. The "majority" have a difficult time with that (as evidenced by many posts on this forum); how will they ever "let go" and really allow people of color to be free, let alone in "control"?
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Mbr
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Username: Mbr

Post Number: 12
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 69.246.43.231
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 4:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Super_d:
Your positions, while not contradictory, are somewhat disheartening. Basically you are saying that any effort (dialogue, busing, affirmative action) made thus far to promote equality, understanding, and tolerance has wound up hurting blacks even more. That is a very negative view of efforts which have been very well intentioned, maybe not always well executed, but always result in a net positive for everyone.

Getting back to the original story, you really need to explain how a bunch of high school kids getting together to talk about their differences is somehow a bad thing. I think 99.9% of the population would see this as progress.
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Sharmaal
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Username: Sharmaal

Post Number: 468
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 69.14.76.187
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 4:05 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Unfortunately, they wouldn't take it.
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Benjamin
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Username: Benjamin

Post Number: 111
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.158.76.161
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 2:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

True, they wouldn't take it. Does that matter? So there are racists out there. We've reached the point where they exist, but can easily be marginalized. Does it really bother me that there are people out there who hate me simply on the basis that I'm white, or that I'm male, or that I'm Canadian. Not really. I don't plan to meet with these people anytine soon, so they can go on thusly without really affecting me. I realise whites hold, on average, more positions of authority in North America, but I still think the principle applies. Why can't the racists simply be bypased?

Benjamin A. Vazquez, U.E.
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Super_d
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Username: Super_d

Post Number: 444
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 69.245.76.200
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 3:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Benhamin A. Vazqez, U.E. ask///// "Why can't the racist simply be bypassed"?//////////////////// //

Look no further than your own post__ ... "I realize whites hold, on average, more positions of authority in North America......"

super d(motordetroit)

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