Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 MGM Grand Previous Next
Top of pageBottom of page

Irish_mafia
Member
Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 286
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 71.144.81.232
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 4:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are they still planning a nod to 1920's architecture?

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20051214/BUSINES S06/512140311/1019/BUSINESS
Top of pageBottom of page

The_nerd
Member
Username: The_nerd

Post Number: 269
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 192.5.109.49
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 4:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Casino's will build whatever they please. They know this town needs them and will accept any crap they put out as long as we get kickbacks... err "tax revenue"
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2746
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 6:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MGM has been keeping very tight lipped about their design. I was able to get the height out of the architects, but no rendering.

BTW, does anyone know at which exact corners the parking structure is being built, and what corner the hotel tower is being built?
Top of pageBottom of page

Machoken
Member
Username: Machoken

Post Number: 1097
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 65.86.12.2
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 6:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So, what will the height be?

Is this what they're building at Michigan and the Lodge?
Top of pageBottom of page

Llyn
Member
Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1296
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.61.197.206
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 7:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In some article I read a while back, they stated that they were "modernizing" the design from the original more ornate concept. I was disappointed to hear that. I like the original renderings.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2749
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 9:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Machoken, the building will stand 216' tall. The parking garage will be 8 stories and nearly 100' tall. lol Does anyone know where exactly the parking garage is being built, and then the hotel? I mean, the site is so large I'm just wondering how everything is going to look in relation to one another, and it tall depends on location. I hope they try and build the parking garage anywhere where it won't distract too much from the casino and hotel, and I hope they hotel is built on a corner so at least two sides face the street.
Top of pageBottom of page

Reetz12
Member
Username: Reetz12

Post Number: 14
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 69.246.61.199
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 10:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is my understanding that the parking deck is currently under construction, along the freeway. This has to be complete before the hotel construction begins.
Top of pageBottom of page

Wmuchris
Member
Username: Wmuchris

Post Number: 108
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.51.137.10
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 11:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is my understanding that the parking garage will be built directly across from the Detroit Edison Building, with a catwalk running across the street to the edison campus.

Edison sold the lots with the stipulation that the casino must build a parking garage that can be shared with edison. Don't be surprised to see a big parking garage lurking over second ave.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2750
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 1:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This whole project is ridiculously large and spread out. More than it had to be, IMO. Depending on how you count the blocks, the thing will be 8-10 city blocks in size. The actual casino building will be 3-stories in height spread over these many city blocks, and I don't expect them to keep the street grid. For all of the money MGM brings in in terms of taxes, I try to look the other way, but this is going to be so anti-urban, a big black hole in the heart of the city. RenCen, mean RenCen II (MGM Grand Detroit).

Suburbs-atch...watching MGM bringing a suburban campus downtown, trying to force a square peg into a triangular hole.
Top of pageBottom of page

The_nerd
Member
Username: The_nerd

Post Number: 272
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 192.5.109.49
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 1:42 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^The fate of west of downtown development is sealed with Cobo, the austere suburban government offices and now this.

I don't think this bodes well for Tiger Stadium either.
Top of pageBottom of page

Royce
Member
Username: Royce

Post Number: 1358
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 69.212.38.47
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 4:16 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmichigan, much of what MGM is building on were surface parking lots. With the exception of Detroit Edison employees, not much of the public was using the land they're building on. The street grid won't be missed.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2753
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 5:02 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's really not the point, especially considering there was almost literally nothing over on that side of downtown. I guess city leadership isn't interested in rebuilding urban fabric, rather taking whatever is thurst upon them. MGM did not need 25 acres in the central business district core for its complex. If someone wants to get an aerial showing how many streets will be ate up by this, and the sheer size of the site that would be great. This would have been fine, to me, anywhere outside of the CBD, which is the last chance Detroit has to rebuild a high-density urban fabric. This site looks bigger than the entire Greektown neighborhood which will INCLUDE a hotel/casino.
Top of pageBottom of page

Broken_main
Member
Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 494
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 198.109.44.2
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 7:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmichigan, as you know this city can no longer depend on the Big 3 to bring in the maoney. We all know that the city is going to be banking on these entertainment venues to bring in the $$$ I can see it now when they start promote the VEGAS of the MIDWEST with this Grand Casino.

Initially the casino had plans to incorporate an "urban" beach inside. i bet that would have been great. But that feel through when archer left. I know a few of the city planners that were working on the casino projects and heard how fabulous these sites were supposed to be.
Top of pageBottom of page

Royce
Member
Username: Royce

Post Number: 1359
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 69.212.38.47
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 9:22 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, you said it, Lmichigan, "especially considering there was almost literally nothing over on that side of town." So what's being lost? This area was dead with all of the parking lots anyway. The casino will give that area some activity. Where Detroit Edison is to me has always been on the outskirts of the CBD. If the MGM casino was going to be built behind the Fox, then I might have a problem with such a sprawling complex, but where they are building now, no problem.

(Message edited by royce on December 15, 2005)
Top of pageBottom of page

Broken_main
Member
Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 502
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 198.109.44.2
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 9:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with you Royce, I think the possibiliy of extending the boundaries of downtown are finally happening with the addition of Casinos/Hotels all the way to the Lodge(or the Coleman)/ and Grand River. This could actually help the city land some extra development in those areas.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gogo
Member
Username: Gogo

Post Number: 1148
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.20
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 9:59 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

This could actually help the city land some extra development in those areas.




Riiiight, because MGM and Motor City Casinos have attracted so many spin off business so far?? Nobody wants to live near a casino and these two particular Casinos have gone out of their way to design compounds that do not encourage people to explore the neighborhood, which does not promote any sort of "extra development".
Top of pageBottom of page

Broken_main
Member
Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 504
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 198.109.44.2
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 10:21 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Awww come on...it's really up to the city and the city planners to put on their thinking caps and make these Casino's profitable centers...just to name a few.

Let's stop being cautious and take a few risks.(We have gamble thus far on these things, right?)

Theaters, movie houses, more hotels with (water themes), convention center, Malls, Medieval Times.

People just don't have any vision so they just settle on being naysayers. You should just check your Olde English "D" at the door.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gogo
Member
Username: Gogo

Post Number: 1149
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.20
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 11:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree. It really is the cities job to take these opportunities and live up to the promise of spinoff development that these casinos were sold on. Greektown is a good example. But the city has failed with the MGM and Motor City Casinos. There is nothing about their development that encourages spinoff developments. They are all inclusive compounds with restaurants, and every other amenity one would need, while providing ample buffers between the rest of the neighborhood with parking structures, large setbacks and other features which do not integrate them well with the other neighborhood.

I did not mean to imply that these development cannot create spinoff development. I only meant to point out that anyone expecting it with these two casinos as they are designed is fooling themself. Downtown will not grow with extra development as a result of these two casinos. I think their presence over the last how many years has already proven that.
Top of pageBottom of page

Broken_main
Member
Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 509
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 198.109.44.2
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 11:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gogo...I am sorry...you can have you Olde English "D" back. I agree with your statment as well. But the city needs to jump on this right now. This is a Golden opportunity. This is the time for the citizens to make the government work. call em up!!
Top of pageBottom of page

Broken_main
Member
Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 510
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 198.109.44.2
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 11:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gogo...I am sorry...you can have you Olde English "D" back. I agree with your statment as well. But the city needs to jump on this right now. This is a Golden opportunity. This is the time for the citizens to make the government work. call em up!!
Top of pageBottom of page

Missnmich
Member
Username: Missnmich

Post Number: 468
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.186.39.150
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 11:46 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Casinos don't want people to explore the neighborhood, they want to provide all the amenities so that you never venture far from their games.

I don't have issues with casinos, but Detroit needs something else to spur development.


...busted down in Tunica ...
Top of pageBottom of page

Hornwrecker
Member
Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 544
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.2.148.114
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 1:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone have a link to what the footprint of the place is going to look like? I've been searching the net, but only find maps with a small dot on a corner, nothing like the acres mentioned above. I wanted to see what used to be there from old aerial photos.

Casinos are designed to be all-inclusive, so that the mark patron never has to leave its warm cocoon until they are spent. I wouldn't be surprised if the MGM doesn't start lobbying for their own exit off of the Lodge, so you needn't get tainted by anything outside of their enclave.
Top of pageBottom of page

Psip
Member
Username: Psip

Post Number: 649
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 1:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hornwrecker, maybe this will help :-)
Casino-Map.jpg
Top of pageBottom of page

Broken_main
Member
Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 512
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 198.109.44.2
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 2:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Casinos don't want people to explore the neighborhood




That's why it's up to the city to force the issue here. The Casino is part of the city...not the other way around. It is up to thecity to regulate how land is to be used. The Casino's would have no choice but to accept the fact that they will eventually have neighbors. Competition spurs more competition and thus more $$$ for everyone.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2757
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 9:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can someone PLEASE post the map with all of the blocks outlined that will be eaten up by this complex? I tried posting a pic, but couldn't get it to work for some reason.

(Message edited by lmichigan on December 15, 2005)
Top of pageBottom of page

Psip
Member
Username: Psip

Post Number: 654
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 11:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmich, email me the link or pix, I will try to post it.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2758
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 12:10 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Done. Don't fail me. :-)
Top of pageBottom of page

Psip
Member
Username: Psip

Post Number: 656
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 12:39 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From Lmichigan:
MGM
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2759
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 12:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now, though nothing had recently sprung up, wouldn't it have been much better to let this area grow organically forming a cohesive urban neighborhood again, instead of a super-complex that will destroy the remaining street grid and offer very little at street level, or in terms of walkability (well, besides the fact of walking through a massive, dimly lit casino).

I would have expected MGM to be more considerate of their location, and developing a property that would fit and thrive in an urban environment (i.e. Greektown Casino). Instead, it seems that they have not taken into consideration the location and are bent on putting forward a development that would have worked MUCH better in Novi off of the freeway.
Top of pageBottom of page

Psip
Member
Username: Psip

Post Number: 657
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 12:56 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe they will call the hotel the Plum Street Retreat :-)
Top of pageBottom of page

Hornwrecker
Member
Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 548
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.2.148.111
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 1:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hope that they don't bulldoze Elton Park, that weird little ovoid at the remnants of W. Elizabeth and Fifth.

From a map 1950s

Michgan Ave and Lodge 50s
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2760
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 1:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's more likely they'd call it "MGM Mirage presents the Plum Street Retreat." :-)
Top of pageBottom of page

Royce
Member
Username: Royce

Post Number: 1360
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 69.212.38.47
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 2:32 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmichigan, I don't know when you were last in Detroit but think about going to Comerica Park from the Fisher Freeway, come up at the Grand River exit and turn right on Third. Traveling down Third, you will pass the new MGM casino. It will take up about five blocks and end at Bagley.
If you travel south on the Lodge you'll come up at Bagley. I guess you'll be able to turn left at Third and enter the MGM complex.

The area, as you can see, will be bordered by two freeways with easy access from either one. There's not much room for any other kind of development in the area. Given that the area was mostly parking lots, the MGM casino complex will not in any way take anything away from that area. This is probably the best location for a casino. I can see why MGM chose it. This is one of those few win-win situations regarding development in Detroit.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2763
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 2:50 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Of course MGM wants to have a huge super-complex in that entire corner of downtown. Who wouldn't? That doesn't make it a good, urban-minded idea in the middle of downtown Detroit.

I totally disagree. Once again, this would have been a perfect area for a urban village of sorts, with retail linning the streets, sort of like what used to be there. I can see MGM's complex fitting perfectly at Southfield's Town Center, but it adds nothing to positive to downtown like Greektown Casino does, for instance, which has figured out a way to actually fit into an already urban neighborhood. I thought I'd never say it, but I would prefer is MGM stayed at it's current isolated location, instead of building at an even more so isolated corner. I'm just not going to get excited about ANOTHER massive superblock downtown that makes the area more suburban-styled in design and usage than it already is.

What MGM is doing, in essence, is trying to build a MotorCity type complex (that actually fits perfectly with it's low-density area) at the expense of a walkable, urban environment.
Top of pageBottom of page

Broken_main
Member
Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 524
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 198.109.44.2
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 3:15 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can anybody tell me what was on that say, waaaay back in the day???
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2764
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 3:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

An entire part of a neighborhood. Look at the map above, which is fairly old, but minus the Lodge with all of the streets going through.
Top of pageBottom of page

Broken_main
Member
Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 532
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 198.109.44.2
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 4:35 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmmm, I knew there were a few houses there. Even while at Cass Tech 79-83. It was just empty space.
Top of pageBottom of page

Royce
Member
Username: Royce

Post Number: 1361
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 69.212.41.166
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 4:46 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmichigan, this urban village that you talk about, how would it get started in that area? Before the construction of MGM's permanent casino, the area was mostly parking lots. Are you suggesting that you just build retail stores and the people would come, eventhough the area had little to no residential. Just build in and they will come?

Also, you keep talking about how ideal the Greektown Casino situation is, but what you fail to mention is that Greektown was a thriving neighborhood of restaurants and shops before the casino ever arrived. The casino is a spin-off of the neighbor not the other way around. It was foolish of Greektown Casino to ever even consider moving from the temporary spot to the permanent spot because, like you say, they have the ideal situation.

Now, you will have to explain to me in more detail how you think this urban village in the MGM Casino area would have evolved for me to understand why you are opposed to it being built where its being built. You mention about the area looking like it used to, but the problem with that is that the freeways( the Lodge and Fisher) destroyed the area of its housing and retail. Nothing organic can come from nothing.

You also complain about the casino taking up too much of the CBD. In my opinion, the CBD to the west ends at the Lodge. The area in question would still be in my CBD, but because it borders two freeways it would still be an area for office buildings and parking. No residential would go there even if the casino wasn't going there. Besides, as long as Detroit Edison(DTE) has its complex there, nothing else would be expected to go over there, except maybe an extention of the facility or parking structures.

If the Lodge and the Fisher freeways weren't there, you would probably have your urban village, Lmichigan. However, the freeways are there, and not much in terms of residential and retail would develop in that area because they are there.

The logistics of the area don't support an urban village, and the MGM Casino can't recreate a "Greektown-type" neighborhood. Remember, the Greektown neighborhood was created several decades before the Greektown Casino was ever even thought of. There's blood, sweat, and tears put into Greektown. You can't recreate something like it from scratch to go near the new MGM Casino. Maybe you, Lmichigan, would like to try, but I don't think many others, including myself, would think it would be the best use of time, money, and energy. The building of the new MGM Casino at the site where it is being built is the best option Detroit has for development in that area. Period.
Top of pageBottom of page

Broken_main
Member
Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 534
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 198.109.44.2
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 4:49 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

good morning Royce, thats a very good observation.
Top of pageBottom of page

Royce
Member
Username: Royce

Post Number: 1362
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 69.212.41.166
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 4:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why, thank you, Broken_main. Now I'm going to bed.
Top of pageBottom of page

Psip
Member
Username: Psip

Post Number: 659
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 5:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is the area in 1961 before the Fisher Fwy.

WSU DTE
Plum Street
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2765
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 5:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Royce, I still disagree. You just can't convince me that a super-block is good for anywhere downtown. I thought we would have learned that from the Renaissance Center, but we haven't. First Comerica, then Ford Field, and now this. So, what's next? Tearing down Park Avenue because it's the "best the city can get?" This wouldn't be acceptable in any other historical city, but this one, it seems. I guess I'll just have to get use to the fact that save Campus Martius, the eastside of downtown, the financial district, and a big of Grand Circus Park, downtown is going to be a collection of superblocks dotted with a few historic skyscrapers and buildings here and there. Downtown is starting to look more like Southfield Town Center with an historic core more than a downtown of one of the top ten largest metropolitan areas in the country.
Top of pageBottom of page

Psip
Member
Username: Psip

Post Number: 660
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 5:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe the question we should be asking is where is Detroit Edison going? I can not imagine they will live right next the MGM for very long.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2766
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 5:25 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why not?
Top of pageBottom of page

Royce
Member
Username: Royce

Post Number: 1363
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 69.212.41.166
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 9:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmichigan, economics is what drives the type of development you seek downtown. If Detroit was a booming city I'm sure you wouldn't see large parcels of land used for one project, but the fact is Detroit is not a booming economic power. If it was, there would not be any casinos at all.

Remember too that Detroit Edison(DTE)owned the property that MGM Casino is now building on. They've owned that land for years, and since at least the late 70s most of the land has been parking lots. So it's clear Detroit was still in decline 25-30 years ago or DTE would have expanded by now.

I'm not jumping for joy about MGM Casino taking up so much land in Downtown. However, I would much rather see them build on this land than have it remain blocks of parking lots. Remember Detroit's economic situation. Beggars can't be choosy.
Top of pageBottom of page

Swingline
Member
Username: Swingline

Post Number: 376
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 172.169.171.254
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 5:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm with Royce on this one Lmich. Certainly Detroit needs more urban village-type density, but we also have to deal with the fact that the casinos are here. We're stuck with them. More importantly, they have to succeed if the city is going to benefit. The Lodge/Fisher site is perfect to create a signature visual statement and advertisement to tens of thousands of motorists every day. It will attract all kinds of folks who will want to visit an exciting looking place with all of the neon and lights and activity.

A neighborhood is not being bulldozed to create the casino. The neighborhood is already gone and market conditions to perhaps bring it back won't exist for decades and probably never will exist again.

We shouldn't worry about spinoff from the casinos. That's not their purpose. Their purpose is to generate tax revenue for the city and the state and to provide some entertainment for locals and visitors alike.

I think that the site is perfect and I hope that MGM is building the biggest, gaudiest coolest temple of sin possible. I hope people flock to it and spend spend spend. If all of that happens, Detroit benefits. There's plenty of other places for neighborhoods to sprout.
Top of pageBottom of page

Downtown_dave
Member
Username: Downtown_dave

Post Number: 46
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 63.77.247.130
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 5:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Agreeing with Royce and Swingline, this is a perfect site for a casino -- the freeways wrap around three sides, there isn't a natural flow of pedestrians through the area and hasn't been for years, and casinos want patrons inside their "destination" anyway. MGM has found a good island to build on, without "destroying" the fabric of the city.

Early casino drawings that I saw reflected on the "art deco/moderne" architecture of DTE's Service Building on Third. Not sure if later plans have continued this look, but the casino is making an attempt to fit in with its next door neighbor. Coming DTE campus improvements (financed by the parking lot sale to MGM) will make this a much improved corner of downtown.

I work at DTE and have a GREAT center view of the site from my 15th floor window. As footing drilling and wall pouring progresses, the footprint of the casino is starting to be seen, and already second-level concrete is being poured on some sections of the garage.

Think of Detroit as a town with casinos -- not a casino town. We need the business.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2767
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 5:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They may not be destroying the fabric of the city (the Lodge and Fisher did that long ago), but they will impede downtown in that larger corner from ever developing in an urban fashion again. Just look at the map and the street-grid that used to be there (and is still there in a limited fashion today). Like I said, I can not be convinced that a 25-acre complex in the middle of what's suppossed to be an historic cities downtown/central city, is a good way to develop the downtown area. The "take what you can get" attitude seems as if it will forever impede making downtown any kind of urban destination. If I wanted super-block casinos out of context with their environment, I'll go to Vegas, and no thank you Detroit. Heck, even Las Vegas has found ways to fit casinos and hotels into a relatively urban environment with hotels built to the street, and retail at the corners. You're telling me that Detroit can't do the same? MGM's plan would be great...at the MotorCity site up Grand River.
Top of pageBottom of page

Keystone
Member
Username: Keystone

Post Number: 207
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 63.241.158.33
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 6:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As noble as it is to wish the city and casinos contributed to the 'urban fabric' of the CBD, the bottom line is revenue. Tax revenues for 2005 (thru November) collected from MGM is over $50 Million. From Motor City, $48 Million. From Greektown, $37 Million.

So, Greektown's commitment to work with the city and neighborhood has cost the City/State tax revenue over $10 Million per year.

So, which type of casino do you really think the City is going to encourage? And, which type of casino do you think the MGM board of directors would approve?

When the City let MGM and Motor City write the rules on the types of facilities they would construct, it immediately put Greektown at a disadvantage. For my money, Greektown is the only place I'll go to gamble. (And no, I don't work there!)
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2769
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 8:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keystone, I completely realize the role of MGM in relation to the tax base. I guess I'm simply still bemoaning how much power they've been given, especially since they are and outside entity (MGM Mirage). They damn near own half the Las Vegas Strip now.

Anyway, I completely understand MGM wanting to get away with what they can get away with. I fault the city approving their huge footprint. The city had leverage because MGM wasn't going anywhere with the money it's been able to generate in the Detroit market. I've never seen a city government so easily rolled over by big business. I'm a tough critic, no doubt, but the city could do so much better by its citizens. Like I said, MGMs facility would be better in almost any other part of the city, just not inside the downtown loop, the very last place in the city were a dense, urban environment could hope to be rebuilt.
Top of pageBottom of page

Broken_main
Member
Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 538
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 198.109.44.2
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 8:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Okay Lmich, where would have been a better place to place this casino?
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2770
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 9:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The placing isn't wrong, the layout (sprawled over 25-acres taking out streets) will be. Forget it, though. No one cares but me, it seems, and my opinion isn't going to change anything about this project. I've already repeated myself multiple times, which means it's time to drop it.
Top of pageBottom of page

Psip
Member
Username: Psip

Post Number: 661
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 9:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What really surprised me is the proximity to Motor City. Just across the freeway. I thought they wanted to be islands unto themselves.
Why do I think Edison will move? I think once the 24 hour traffic and congestion gets going, the execs on Second are going to say "I'm outta here". They are use to a private world right now. It will be like opening a Walmart at the end of you block.
This may be the master plan anyway, to convert the Cisler building into additional hotel space when needed.
Top of pageBottom of page

Wmuchris
Member
Username: Wmuchris

Post Number: 112
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.51.137.10
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 10:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think the Execs are going to up and move out of detroit. Many people in that company seem commited to staying in detroit, they have many plans in the work for upgrading their campus. They purchased the old city parking structure to (probably) build their own.

Why would Detroit Edison want to move out of the campus that they have occupied for nearly a century?

A strong downtown detroit = good business for DTE
Top of pageBottom of page

Psip
Member
Username: Psip

Post Number: 664
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 11:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree 100% that they should not abandon downtown. But look how energy companys are transforming nowadays. All it takes is some super oil company to buy DTE and poof, they are gone. We will get our bills from India.
Sorry for the negative crystal ball readings, I just don't trust energy companys anymore.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2771
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 11:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know why. DTE is a huge entity with a near monopoly in the greater metro area. They have an entire downtown complex. If anything, they will expand at their current site. There are far more transient companies and industries out there.

BTW, you do know Consumers Energy built a tower in downtown Jackson not too long ago, right? Michigan energy companies seem to be pretty committed to their respective regions.
Top of pageBottom of page

Hornwrecker
Member
Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 551
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.2.149.28
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 11:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Someone asked how the area looked in the past, so here are a few aerial photos from the WSU/VMC from the fifties.

Detroit aerial Michgan and Lodge 50s

A overall aerial photo of the Michigan and Lodge area taken during initial construction of the Lodge.

Michigan Ave and Lodge c/u

A closeup of the area

Michgan Ave and Lodge 58

The same area taken in 1958
Top of pageBottom of page

Broken_main
Member
Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 539
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 198.109.44.2
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 3:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Psip... thanks fot the photo. This is the first photo I have seen ever with the Cass Tech-Commerce High on it.
Top of pageBottom of page

Psip
Member
Username: Psip

Post Number: 666
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 4:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

:-) I have snuck that in a couple of times before, Its nice to see the overhead bridge. When I went to Cass, the bridge was gone and the freeway was pretty much done. That was in '66
Your the first to mention it B_M
Top of pageBottom of page

Broken_main
Member
Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 543
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 198.109.44.2
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 4:55 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well when I was there there were only stories left to be told of the school and rumors of pics that may still be locked up in those files in the drafting room in the old Cass tech building. Room 141 I believe.

CT1983

(Message edited by broken_main on December 17, 2005)
Top of pageBottom of page

Corktownmark
Member
Username: Corktownmark

Post Number: 130
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 68.42.79.14
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 10:35 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In all the talk about the new location I think it is important to find out what will become of the old MGM Casino. I hope it will be used and not abandoned. THis would be a great location for a conglomeration of big box stores. maybe Meijers, bestbuy, Lowes all using the parking structure and sharing the building. It could become a convetion center too. anyone know of the plans?
Top of pageBottom of page

Keystone
Member
Username: Keystone

Post Number: 209
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.74.4.122
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 4:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DTE is about to undertake a major renovation and expansion of their HQ. Once the parking deck (shared with MGM) is complete, expect to see the cranes roll in. They are spending over $50M on upgrades, including some pretty cool public elements. Look for a new tower 'beacon', bridges, reflecting pools and the like. They are staying put, no doubt about that.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2776
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 4:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And you heard this where? Sources, my good man, sources, please.

(Message edited by lmichigan on December 17, 2005)
Top of pageBottom of page

Rbdetsport
Member
Username: Rbdetsport

Post Number: 38
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 68.60.133.115
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 6:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yea I would like to know where you got this from? But it does sound interesting. I hope this isn't a joke. HAHA.....
Top of pageBottom of page

Wmuchris
Member
Username: Wmuchris

Post Number: 113
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.51.137.10
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 7:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

About upgrades to the DTE downtown HQ

They have been talked a lot about within the company, and there have been announcements to the employees about such impovements.

There were renderings passed around on a company-wide level in the Edison newsletter.

I remember some of the following improvements/ speculations.

Including:

Interior impovements to the buildings, a new main lobby. Improved second floor atrium.

Turning parking lots in front of the Cisler building into a sort of landsaped entry way for the main building. Grass/ Trees benches and the like. But no parking

Rebuilding a new garage on the old city owned Garage site.

And most exciting of all....
Landscaping a gravel lot direcly behind the complex. !WOO HOO! (at least its an improvement)

All of these things have been discussed within the company, and I would be suprised if they do not happen.

But still. There have still been no public announcements from DTE. You probably won't here about it until the shovels hit the ground.
Top of pageBottom of page

Psip
Member
Username: Psip

Post Number: 667
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 7:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Carefull, this might be a scam, notice there is not one word about a Garden Shed.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2780
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 7:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This sounds very interesting, but still begs the question, who do you know at DTE? Anyway, that would be great. I was hoping that someday we'd see more than office buildings and parking lots on that side of downtown, but it doesn't look like much will change even with a renovated DTE campus and MGM expansion. No one is going to walk the area because there is no street-level retail over there.
Top of pageBottom of page

Wmuchris
Member
Username: Wmuchris

Post Number: 114
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.51.137.10
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 8:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry. I can't reveal my sources. :-)
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2782
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 9:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, you can if you want to have credibility. :-)
Top of pageBottom of page

Jams
Member
Username: Jams

Post Number: 2394
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.252.12.163
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 9:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

They are spending over $50M on upgrades, including some pretty cool public elements. Look for a new tower 'beacon', bridges, reflecting pools and the like. They are staying put, no doubt about that.




This should make the thousand or so employees soon to be out of a job because DTE can no longer pay them a living wage really enjoy their Holidays.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 1619
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.6.210
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 9:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I highly doubt that DTE is going anywhere. They have way too much invested in plant & equipment in their complex. Not all those buildings contain offices remember. It would be a horrendous expense for them to move/recreate the infrastructure alone. Back in the 1990's the city was looking at possibly taking over the entire DTE campus, but that cost was determined to be prohibitive, even for casinos.

DTE and MGM will be next door neighbors, and they will probably coordinate changes to the area.

I certainly won't regret losing that sea of parking, regardless of losing the street grid. The only street grid I worry about in Detroit is the remnants of the Woodward Plan. Other than that, who cares? Wayne State University, the Detroit Medical Center and Cobo Center have all been tearing up the grid system of streets in Detroit for decades. Ditto for Comerica Park and Ford Field (mercifully just outside of range of the Woodward Plan).

With MGM near Grand River, and MotorCity on Grand River, there may actually be "some" spinoff from these 2 casinos. Just how much remains to be seen. But with a lot of traffic in that area, there is bound to be at least some spinoff.

For me the big question is where will the casino access be located? Making a left turn onto 3rd from the Bagley Freeway exit ramp may cause some traffic problems. After all Bagley is a major access/exit to downtown. Lots of traffic on game and concert nights. Maybe the casino access should be on Grand River Ave.

With 2 casino marquees on Grand River, maybe that would spur other development. Folks have to get gas, etc. It may not be the spinoff that developers dream about, but it will be better than what little is there now. Maybe the city can promote Grand River Ave. as an entertainment strip, anchored by two casinos at either end.

I know I won't lose any sleep over tearing down acres of parking!
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2785
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 2:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, watch out downtown Phoenix, here comes downtown Detroit, gas stations, convenience stores, and all. Welcome to Detroit's entertainment district! Drive into the beautiful MGM and MotorCity Parking Structures, waste hours in our casinos, and don't forget your gas on your back out of the city located conveniently on Grand River Avenue!

I should have known better than to expect bars to be set high.
Top of pageBottom of page

Eric
Member
Username: Eric

Post Number: 253
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.136.144.196
Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 6:08 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MGM and MC are too cut off from each other and Gd River lacks anything to redevelop

If MGM is going to create any spinoff it'll be downtowns westide Bagley, Washinton Blvd, Grand Circus Park. Since this the area casino guest go to fist it is the closest and a better building stock redevelop. Ideally the hotel would be built at 3rd and Bagley

It'll be interesting see to what happens in that area over the next few years while the casino is being built. Whether enough development can take place so that it has something to draw guest in from its somewhat isolated location
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2790
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 6:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The whole point of a casino is to keep people inside. That works against any kind of pedestrian traffic. It's a bit too far from the center of downtown for many patrons to consider walking to Campus Martius or Greektown. Downtown is lucky that it has the People Mover in cases like this, but I really don't believe it's going to do enough to support spinoff businesses. Casinos like MGM don't want spinoff businesses which is why they are building all of their amenities deep within their casinos structure. Unlike Greektown which takes its surrounding neighborhood into consideration, the sheer size of MGM nearly guarentees that there will be little pedestrian spill-out. They are playing a very smart game, and one that makes THEM the destination, not downtown Detroit. The thing is going to resemble a leech more than anything else.
Top of pageBottom of page

Broken_main
Member
Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 545
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 198.109.44.2
Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 8:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmich, while I respect your view on this topic, i still disagree with you and I still think it is the City planners job to create other spin off businesses in the area. It could be as simple as promoting other business to consider the area and cut them a deal.

I understand that the casinos don't want any business away to take away form their profits, but they may have to, or better yet, visitors to the "D" will just have to bring more$$$$. Like i previously stated, there are several other venues that could work in the area. If its anyone that should be worried most about its business is DTE. makes for a hard choice to pay that 400 dollar gas/light bill or go to the casino to try and double it. LOL
Top of pageBottom of page

Royce
Member
Username: Royce

Post Number: 1368
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 69.212.58.147
Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 9:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Forget it, though. No one cares but me, it seems, and my opinion isn't going to change anything about this project. I've already repeated myself multiple times, which means it's time to drop it." Lmichigan - Post #2770 12/16/05

Lmichigan, you have added six more posts since the one above. Very few, if any, forumites share your view. Your passion for this topic is duly noted, but it is becoming an unhealthy obsession. It's time to stand by your words in post #2770 or face losing credibility.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 1622
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.186.195
Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 4:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember discussing this back in 2001 when I first joined the forum (the 1st time). Only back then we were lamenting that Steve Wynn didn't get a chance to build his spectacular 800 room Marquessa casino resort in a French Belle Epoche style.

It's not that others don't share Lmich's view, it's just that fortress casinos have been a foregone conclusion.

I think that even with gaming fortresses along Grand River, redevelopment is inevitable. I would like to see the GAR Building become a night club, the Leland House (Ramada) Hotel get restored, a new Red Wing Arena built opposite the MGM Casino on Grand River, a restored Michigan Theatre (for MGM use when big acts come to town), and a restaurant district opening up in the Midtown stretch of Grand River between the Lodge and Fisher Freeways. So sorry Lmich, but my bar is way higher than you think. No lowered expectations here.
Top of pageBottom of page

Llyn
Member
Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1313
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.61.197.206
Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 4:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BTW, DTE just spent a pretty big chunk of money putting in four generators to power their buildings in case of another regional blackout like the summer before last. (Not having power themselves really handicapped their response.)

Doesn't sound like someone planning to move soon.

Post 1313. The sky is falling.
Top of pageBottom of page

Eric
Member
Username: Eric

Post Number: 254
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.136.144.196
Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 5:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

the sheer size of MGM nearly guarentees that there will be little pedestrian spill-out.




Maybe for the local gamble and go home crowd, but if someone is here for the weekend do they'll just want stick around a hotel room is unreaslitc. You just need give them somewhere to go


quote:

It's a bit too far from the center of downtown for many patrons to consider walking to Campus Martius or Greektown.




Which is why developiing attractions on the westside of downtown is so important.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2792
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 7:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I appreciate your advice, Royce, and it is noted, but denied.

Eric, due to MGM's location what other entertainment options do you have in mind that can be developed on westside of downtown (north of Michigan, because people aren't going to walk very far)? Looking at the lay of the area, MGM actually looks to be an island, with any other developments having to be well outside of this "island."

I just don't see how MGM can ever fit into a new, urban, and walkable neighborhood in this area of downtown. Barring taking lanes out of Michigan, Grand River or Bagley, the complex looks to isolate itself.
Top of pageBottom of page

Eric
Member
Username: Eric

Post Number: 256
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.136.144.196
Posted on Monday, December 19, 2005 - 1:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Exactly what we've seen over the last few years in area more resturants, bars etc. The real key is more people living in area rehabs new construction et. The casino will just supplement the development

This casino isn't that isolated anyway three blocks away at Cass and Bagley you're on the edge of the necklace streets and the People Mover is just a block away. Look at the map once you cross Cass you're in basically in the heart of downtown. MGM won't fit into an urban neighborhood but it's close enough that it can help grow one

The urban village should all those parking lots around Park, Adams, 75 and Gd River. Only a few blocks away the perfect place for patrons to spend what money they haven't lost gambling



http://www.detroit2005.com/map o/main_area.html
Top of pageBottom of page

Keystone
Member
Username: Keystone

Post Number: 210
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 63.241.158.33
Posted on Monday, December 19, 2005 - 1:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MGM's new facility is better than the empty surface parking lots that previously dominated the area. Sure they could have done it better from an urban planning perspective, but the horse is out of the barn on that one. And once DTE's plans become reality, you'll see this desolate corner of the CBD become a pretty interesting place.

And, with this acreage gobbled up, it puts pressure on other properties within the CBD to encourage development. It's all about defining the 'margin'. So spin offs aren't necessarily directly attributable to the casino(s), but they definately influence the economics of making other deals work.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1315
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Monday, December 19, 2005 - 1:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

The urban village should all those parking lots around Park, Adams, 75 and Gd River. Only a few blocks away the perfect place for patrons to spend what money they haven't lost gambling




You mean the area that Olympia has been eying for their new stadium? The area at which the city will probably jump at the chance to vacate sections of street to put in an arena?

The funny thing is that they can buy all the land that they want, but they can't fit the thing in unless the city gives up a bunch of ROW. If you ask me, that would be a HORRIBLE idea there. The MGM not really as much.

Maybe the new arena can go where the existing MGM is. That would be a good use of a piece of land bordering the freeyway and Michigan Ave. Don't get me wrong, I want a new arena, I just don't want it in the wrong place.

LMichigan, I've haven't been following this thread much, and I agree with you in many ways.

Unfortunately that park was killed with the freeways. It would take a long time, and a lot of work to recreate a neighborhood there.

I sincerly hope that the parking decks are pushed back to the edge of the freeway (ala WSU's NW corner).

I also wish that the casino could build more up than out, saving as much of our street grid as possible.
Top of pageBottom of page

Leland_palmer
Member
Username: Leland_palmer

Post Number: 178
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 68.248.92.132
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 7:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a photo of one the the buildings that fell victim to the new construction

Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2846
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 10:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually, wasn't it the ONLY building to fall victim to this project? That must have been quite and eerie place to live in being so close, but so far from the downtown core.

Does anyone know what exactly it was, and it's history?
Top of pageBottom of page

Jasoncw
Member
Username: Jasoncw

Post Number: 73
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 67.149.141.170
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 10:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Casinos don't seem too hard to tear down, maybe in the future small blocks of the casino will be torn down to put real buildings.

The ren cen is too big to tear down though... :-)

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.