Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 511 woodward to be new automated parking garage Previous Next
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Archy
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Username: Archy

Post Number: 17
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 63.242.134.66
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 3:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is the uglyiest building on woodward. Would be nice to but a small shop in it as well.

"The Sterling Group plans to build a $12.7 million parking garage at 511 Woodward Ave. to serve the neighboring Guardian Building, which the real estate firm purchased in 2003...."

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/c gi-bin/news.pl?newsId=7587
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Super_d
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Username: Super_d

Post Number: 464
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 69.245.76.31
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 3:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Haaaarey! another garage!

super d(motordetroit)
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Gdub
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Username: Gdub

Post Number: 928
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.248.15.192
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 3:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"The building currently at 511 Woodward is to be demolished to make way for the 340-space, automated garage, with first-floor retail space. It is the former Omni Bank building and has been vacant for about 10 years."

Good news indeed.
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Gravitymachine
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Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 709
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 198.208.159.18
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 3:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

pics?
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Gumby
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Username: Gumby

Post Number: 760
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 204.39.224.145
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 3:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

The building currently at 511 Woodward is to be demolished to make way for the 340-space, automated garage, with first-floor retail space. It is the former Omni Bank building and has been vacant for about 10 years.




Good to hear, that has to be one of the ugliest buildings ever built and it looks so out of place next to the Guardian.

Now I guess the question is if the garage will take up the whole length of woodward or if there will be space left fot other buildings.
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 1455
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 129.9.163.106
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 3:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's the short ugly brown glass building on the right.

1
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6267
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.251.23
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 3:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hear that they are putting in a Rite Aid to compete with the CVS down the street.
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Crew
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Username: Crew

Post Number: 775
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 146.9.52.128
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 3:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That means Walgreens can't be far behind.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6269
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.251.23
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 3:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

PS - I am kidding.
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 419
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 3:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd gladly sacrifice that turd of a building for an attractive parking garage with ground floor retail, especially if helps increase the gauradian's occupancy.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6270
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.251.23
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 3:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I personally liked the black wood squares that replaced the some of the windows.
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Machoken
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Username: Machoken

Post Number: 1107
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 65.86.12.2
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 3:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is that pic from the top floor of the Vinton building?
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 2156
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.202.227.12
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 3:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

where is the pic of the renedering for this garage?
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Gumby
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Username: Gumby

Post Number: 761
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 204.39.224.145
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 3:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Machoken,

seeing as it is ndavies posting it I am guessing it is from the 10th not the top. Am I right?
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 1456
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 129.9.163.106
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 3:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The picture was taken from the 12th floor of the Vinton. It was the clearest picture of 511 Woodward I had here at work.

(Message edited by ndavies on December 21, 2005)
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 420
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 3:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm guessing that the garage is only going to be four or five stories tall. However, I think increasing the number of spaces, to about 500-600 lets say, by adding a couple of floors to it would make a lot of sense, especially since it's an automated garage. Adding a few floors would only obscure a few lower floors of the building and there's definetly going to be A LOT of demand for parking in that area. Quite honestly, that's one spot where it would seem to make sense to max out the structure.
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Gogo
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Username: Gogo

Post Number: 1151
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.20
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 3:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone know if there is still a historical marker?

Stearns Telephone Site

511 Woodward in downtown Detroit
State Register Listed 04/24/1970
Marker Erected 04/06/1972

The city's first telephone was installed at this site in September, 1877 just 18 month after Alexander Graham Bell invented the phone.
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Rsa
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Username: Rsa

Post Number: 731
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.225.113.226
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 4:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yup, it's still there. it's brown (not green and gold like most others) and mounted horizontally on one of the planters (as opposed to on the side of the building or a post). it's pretty easy to miss unless you're right up on it.
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Jimelnino
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Username: Jimelnino

Post Number: 316
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 70.236.161.240
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 4:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anything is better than that building, I HATE that thing. Everytime I drive down Woodward I stare at the Guardian (my fav building), and then I look down and theres that stupid thing.

I know we have enough parking, but ANY retail beats an ugly vacant building every time.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2831
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 4:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think it's ugly. It's not spectacular, and it looks out of place, but 'ugly' never crossed my mind. How can something so unassumming be so ugly?

Anyway, this is a godsend for attracting new tenants to the Guardian Building. I remember we discussed something similar to this months back. I wonder if the garage is going to be made to blend in with the Guardian Building? That would be great if they could make it look like an annex. In my dream world, they'd reformulate the special Guardian brick they used for the facade of the building, and use it to clad the parking garage. The cost would be very, high, though. I wouldn't mind something similar to the one down at Merchants Row, though. As long as it has some kind of historical context/touch, that should be enough.
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 689
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 5:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is enhanced google maps picture of the building. It appears the cooling towers for the Guardian Building are on the roof of 511. That is going to make for some interesting and difficult construction. Any mechanical or HVAC types here?
Google
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Detroitduo
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Username: Detroitduo

Post Number: 399
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.212.63.213
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 5:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

GOOD RIDDENCE!!!
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2834
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 6:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Psip, are you sure that the mechanical operations for the Guardian are simply not in the basements of the Guardian or in the two turrets?
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Rrl
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Username: Rrl

Post Number: 419
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 71.213.227.199
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 6:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Be careful what you wish for, that is one of the most visible areas of Woodward and everyone is applauding putting a parking deck on it, unlike the Layfayette Building thread where just about everyone is lamenting the loss of 150 MI Ave.

I'm not saying the two buildings are similar, no love lost for 511, but again, is street-front footage on woodward a good spot for a P.Deck? And I'm thinking that for 340 spaces on that narrow footprint, it will likely have to be two to three times taller than the mirrored, glass house that 511 is.

It's too bad some sort of plaza couldn't end up there to give the Guardian a stronger presence on the Woodward facing side. Hopefully the exterior of this deck will draw interest around itself to the Guardian. Maybe similar colored brick, stone and perhaps even Pewabic to pay homage to the lovely lady standing beside it. Here's another thought, connect an Entry Lobby/foyer from the Woodward side to create a thru-way (arcade) to the current Guardian lobby. It creates a bit of difficulty for the service alley between but it would be a sweet addition to the building. That, and ground level retail will certainly be a positive.
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Jsmyers
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Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1318
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 7:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree Rrl.

I'm aprehensive
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 692
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 7:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LMich, I see 2 pipes going over the alley into the Guardian. It might be for some aux cooling. Judging from the size of the condensers, I would think they are pretty major units.
I hope they are not planning on "converting" that brown POS into a garage. That would be the cheapest thing to do. Stick in a couple of heavy duty elevators and rip the interior walls down.
I was in the mechanical room of the Guardian about 25 years ago. That place was beautiful. You could eat off of the floors. It was that clean. I am sure the chillers were down there. Many of the old buildings used cold water for getting rid of the heat. That is not cost effective nowadays. I think the brown POS was built in the early 70s. That is about the time water was getting expensive. To put the condensers on the roof of the Guardian would require huge pumps for that much head.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6284
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.251.23
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 7:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

would require huge pumps for that much head.




Queue manrooter.
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Huggybear
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Username: Huggybear

Post Number: 106
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 192.217.12.254
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 7:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I doubt they would put it on the Guardian roof - 150 West Jefferson has its condensers on the roof of the garage. But you have to take the HVAC offline to demolish that building and keep it off until the garage is built. Can you do it with trucks?
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1091
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 141.213.173.94
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 7:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmich, I agree that it will help the marketing of the Gaurdian to new tenants.

But I am also apprehensive as to the design, as well. The retail downstairs will be great, but what will it look like? It better be bricks and mortar and not glass like the fad for new structures up by Wayne state. That would almost be worse than what we've got in terms of making this gateway to Detroit look bad. The garages just east of the Ren Cen might be an acceptable model.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 1650
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.3.249
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 7:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How about the One Detroit Center Garage as a model. That one is pretty nice. Great lattice work design.

I think it would be cool for the Guardian Building folks to put a "Winter Garden" type glass pavilion on top of the parking structure, with a catwalk over to the main building. They could turn it into a Guardian Building cafeteria or something like that. And with a glass roof/walls, it would provide stunning views of lower Woodward and the nearby skyscrapers.
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Jsmyers
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Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1320
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 7:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is a great idea Gistok!

BTW - One thing that will happen with this plan is that the Guardian will be less visible from Woodward, and the views out will not be as good from many floors.

Once again the need for regional rapid transit rears its ugly head.
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 174
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 68.251.224.44
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 8:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I love the 511 building. I watched it being built by the S & L which originally occupied it. When it opened they hired a boatbuilder, a real artisan, to build a Boston Whaler type fishing boat in the lobby. The guy steamed the wood and bent it to proper shapes. People used to come in all the time to watch him...and many opened accounts. He was a master carpenter, and although I don't own even a hammer, nail, or saw, I was very impressed.

That building was built on, basically, a unbuildable site...long and narrow w/ many practical height restrictions. The City was thrilled to have development on the site.

I'm not a preservationist as many/most of you are, but by God if I were I would be filing lawsuits, picketing, and doing whatever, legally or illegally I could, to stop the demolition of a truly magnificent building. No building reflects its surroundings as it does.

I'm ashamed of you people who call it a POS.

My next call is to Preservationist Magazine.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1094
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 141.213.173.94
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 8:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Believe or not I'm not offended by it. I hate modern stuff but the simple glass created a decent looking diversity of design on that part of Woodward. It's big fault though was the fortress style design and the lack of retail.

Hey great idea indeed Gistok.
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Jsmyers
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Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1322
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 8:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't have a problem with it asthetically either. (I hope I didn't give that impression.)

But I don't like low density buildings or vacant land. This is both, and the project b{may} help one of my favorite buildings. (The other is the Stott.)

I was looking at the aerial a minute ago and thinking to myself that active retail in that area might do a lot to help the financial part of downtown be more lively. (Think residential is necessary too.)

BTW - I also noticed that everything between Griswold and Envy on the north side of Griswold is parking. It seems to me that in the long-term, a mixed use project on those 2 blocks (of course replacing the parking from the garage as part of it) would be great.
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Jsmyers
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Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1323
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 8:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BTW#2 - What was there before?

Why is the block so narrow? Did they cut the width of it to make woodward a blvd?
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Digitaldom
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Username: Digitaldom

Post Number: 378
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 67.149.110.53
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 10:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can someone please provide photos of the site before and after?
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 693
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 10:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a 1961 Aerial of the area. This was before the Woodward wideing.

WSU DTE
1961
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 590
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 12.64.18.244
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 11:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a photo of the same block in the 1920s, known as the Scripps Block. The Scripps had their investment offices there, somewhere.

Scripps Block  Woodward Ave
WSU/VMC
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Bvos
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Username: Bvos

Post Number: 1148
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.212.61.146
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 11:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, I'm glad to see that glass piece of shit come down. But I'm also apprehensive like most. The city has been working hard to get parking garages off Woodward, and this is a pretty prime location on Woodward. According to the Freep article a decorative facade will be put on the garage that will be sympathetic to the Guardian.

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20051221/NEWS11/ 51221006

We'll see how well things go. It could be like putting lipstick on a pig, or it could turn out to be pretty nice garage. It won't be a great garage, but if done right it won't be immediately noticeable.
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Bussey
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Username: Bussey

Post Number: 103
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 69.212.46.167
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 12:21 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

if done anything like the garage for 1001 woodward then im all for it, that turned out very well!


Similar to Hudsons


Hopefully the CVS at 1001 will be a 247 location like the one in midtown



WHERE IS WHOLE FOODS?
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2835
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 12:47 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good find, Bvos.

Bussey, I sure as heck hope they don't use the chicken-wire type material they used to secure the openings of the 1003 Woodward Parking Structure. While the design of that one is nice, the cheap wire mesh really messed it up unless that is somehing temporary for construction.

I'm apprehensive, but the city planning department has been doing relatively well in integrating parking structures onto Woodward with them either being underground, or in historical context (i.e. Merchants Row structure, 1003 structure...). I don't know why, but I feel that they could really make this fit in even if it happens to be a parking structure.

Because of the thinness of the lot, there aren't many options for it that would outweigh the need for parking for the Guardian. This is one of the rare times where I think a parking structure is actually needed.
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Psip
Member
Username: Psip

Post Number: 694
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 1:02 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Recall back in the '70s the entire waterfront was parking. First RenCen took out a large lot, then Hart plaza took the rest. Joe Louis and the River Front Apts took the rest of nearby space. I am not saying waterfront parking is good, just that we had it and now its gone.
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Busterwmu
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Username: Busterwmu

Post Number: 177
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 67.102.76.132
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 1:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While I am excited to see the reflective glass box come down, I too am questioning the use of a Parking Deck on that space. Perhaps it would be better, (if they could not build smaller buildings, perhaps modern examples of what was there in the 1920s? Maybe if something new is going to be built somewhere they could move some older buildinfs to that block? HEY, it's been done in other cities!) to put in a small plaza there. Not to compete with Campus Martius or Hart Plaza, but some trees, benches, maybe a fountain... a little green space.

If not, bring on the ground floor retail!
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2836
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 2:08 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Considering it is in the heart of the financial district, there isn't much you could do to effectively maximize that particular sliver of land. A plaza would probably the best fit if there wasn't actually a need for parking for the building.
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 421
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 9:25 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's an updated Freep story on the garage with some other interesting tidbits about some downtown developments.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20051222/BUS INESS04/512220481

Anyone know which building is the 1528 Woodward Building? I can't picture it right now.
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Lurker
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Username: Lurker

Post Number: 1542
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 65.196.220.198
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 11:54 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know it has been said before, but wtf is up with the freep pictures? They can't even put a simple map up without it being grainy. Check out the zoom of that map - it looks like it has been faxed 75 times.
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Merchantgander
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Username: Merchantgander

Post Number: 1422
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 68.42.168.234
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 12:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the most important part about E_H article he posted is about the new Cajun restaurant being opened. I love Cajun food.
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 422
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 12:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't know whether the cajun place is going in the old comedy club adjacent to Opus One or the empty restaurant across the street.
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Dabirch
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Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 1248
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 208.44.117.10
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 12:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The empty restaurant across the street is 546.
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 423
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 12:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

gotcha. thanks
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 176
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 68.251.224.44
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 12:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You people!!

You rant and rave about Illitch/the City tearing down buildings in order to create more parking, which in turn is beneficial and helps preserve the economic viability of the remaining buildings.

Here, no one has asked one pertainent question, such as: is the proposed deck going to be open to the public or only for Guardian Bldg tenants?

Does the Guardian Bldg need more parking? It's 45% occupied and there is little liklihood it will ever go above 60%. There's the garage across the street behind the Buhl Bldg which, it seems to me, is rarely full. The new tenents the Guardian will capture will come from the Buhl/Ford etc bldgs and those people already have places to park (except come to think of it, the Ford has only valet parking.)

What's happening here is the City gave (non-recourse loan) $3,000,000 to Sterling to build the garage. It will now have a distinct parking advantage over the Ford Bldg. which will probably lose tenants to the Guardian,subsidized by the taxpayers.

And, wait till Detroiters experience an automated parking garage. I looked into it once for one of my buildings. I've experienced them several times in Manhattan. What you get is a
l o n g wait for your car, and the frequency of damage is much higher. Because the automated systems are so expensive, the cost to park will be significantly higher than surface lots or conventional decks. Lot's of luck.

Only in Detroit.

SAVE THE 511 BUILDING.
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Skulker
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Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3321
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.189.88.51
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 1:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The garage design will be very sympatheitic to the Guardian, complimentary in its materials ad colors. I don't think many will be disappointed.
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 914
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.73.195.150
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 1:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Most likely there isn't much outcry about tearing this building down because the building is a POS. :-)

On one hand, adding another parking structure right on Woodward is not a great precedent, but at least an automated structure will be able to fit more cars into less space, which I assume will make the structure shorter than a normal ramp deck with the same number of spaces would have been. The cost is higher, but that is justified by the prime location. And of course ground-floor retail is a plus.
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The_rock
Member
Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1000
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 1:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I will place my 1000th post here in honor of the "little ugly building" that has come under close scrutiny so far by mesne Forumers who are happy to see this structure torn down for (yet)another parking lot.
I remember when it was built and when it opened for business, the first tenant being the Detroit Federal Savings and Loan which occupied the lobby floor and had offices above. To promote the building, it was given a nautical theme in the lobby, topped off by the construction of a replica of an old Mackinaw boat that was built and placed in the lobby. Many folks would stop by during the day and see a ship's carpenter work his trade and it was fun to see the progress as weeks went by. The bank handed out Cravier line-drawing prints to those who opened a savings account. I still have mine.

After the bank left, I often wondered what ever happened to the Mackinaw boat. I have no idea where it is today.

Anyway, because I seem to live in the past and remember Detroit more for what it was rather than what it is now, I'll still put in a plug for 511 before it becomes subject to the wrecker's ball.

Well, so much for memory lane.......
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Llyn
Member
Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1321
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.61.197.206
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 3:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry, not a fan of the 511 building. I'ts a glass box, the kind of thing that everyone complains about all the time, and not a pretty one at that.

I think the garage will probably be an improvement in looks if they do it like they say they are. (I hope it has some height to it, as well.) And it has ground floor retail according to the latest article. Buildings with their own parking can only help the cbd.

Bring it on.

(Message edited by llyn on December 22, 2005)
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Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6294
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.251.23
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 3:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think they should tear it down and put a cheescake factory on that spot. Either that or a Taco Bell.

:-)
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Sharmaal
Member
Username: Sharmaal

Post Number: 489
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 136.2.1.153
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 4:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good thought JT1! New Thread!
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Jasoncw
Member
Username: Jasoncw

Post Number: 69
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 67.149.141.170
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 4:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does the alley need to stay? If not, I'd say either build the garage right up against the building or tear down the alley facade and connect the two. Completely continue the design across the entire parking structure so that it blends in almost perfectly (the deck won't have the same kinds of windows as the rest of the building since they're not offices). Then put a park type thing ontop of the parking deck with some tables and stuff, and put a cafe or something there.

I made a little picture :-)

Guardian Garage

(Pardon the bad photoshop job)
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 2902
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 192.220.139.10
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 4:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Congratulations Rock on 1,000. You are an incredible asset to the Forum. Nobody knows downtown Detroit like The Rock. He spans the generations since he had been downtown so long.
Even jjaba can't boast paddling with Antoine dela Mothe Cadillac up the Straits of Detroit.

We love ya, Rock.
Westside jjaba.
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Llyn
Member
Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1326
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.61.197.206
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 4:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

...and so the love affair continues...
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 2904
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 192.220.139.10
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 4:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Remember the Maine, Remember the Mackinaw!

Love The Rock, jjaba.
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Hamtramck_steve
Member
Username: Hamtramck_steve

Post Number: 2588
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 24.129.63.113
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 4:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Does the Guardian Bldg need more parking? It's 45% occupied and there is little liklihood it will ever go above 60%. There's the garage across the street behind the Buhl Bldg which, it seems to me, is rarely full. The new tenents the Guardian will capture will come from the Buhl/Ford etc bldgs and those people already have places to park (except come to think of it, the Ford has only valet parking.)"

The Guardian will never rise above its current occupancy without dedicated, close parking. Unless the sky falls and SE Michigan realizes the imperative of mass transit...yeah, right.

The Griswold/Larned garage is certainly available for Guardian tenants, although it's unlikely any discounts will be available like are sometimes offered for non-Sterling tenants.

Sterling owns the First Street garage (correct me if that exact garage is wrong), but people around these parts aren't willing to sit on a shuttle bus for door-to-door service.

The Ford Building has no parking available, which is detrimental. The property manager would construct a small garage if the lot along Congress were reasonably available.
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 1656
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.72.223
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 4:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice artwork there Jason! I agree about removing the alley. If you own the whole block, why bother with an alley? I like the terrace on top, but if they glass enclosed it (say making it 2 stories), it would be a year round space (such as a cafeteria or restaurant). Even the glass enclosure could be made complimentary to the Pueblo Deco style of the original building.
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2841
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 5:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Skulker, just wondering, how many floors are planned for this structure? Have you seen anything, yet?
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Quinn
Member
Username: Quinn

Post Number: 643
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 64.139.64.80
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 5:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excellent idea jason cw
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Jasoncw
Member
Username: Jasoncw

Post Number: 71
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 67.149.141.170
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 5:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe the windows could slide up, or be removed on the very bottom so that it can still feel like it's outside in the summer time.

I'm sure it would be popular in the winter when employees don't want to go outside, or stay in the office.

I'm not sure how it could blend in though...
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2843
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 7:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe amongst other glass buildings would glass be a good choice, but I wouldn't mind (and would actually prefer) if this was just left as open-air. Glass-faced/windows would be great at the RenCen, but around brick/stone buildings with non-reflective glass, anyway, it may look out of place.
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Royce
Member
Username: Royce

Post Number: 1377
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 68.255.246.171
Posted on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 3:40 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmichigan, the chicken wire on the 1003 Woodward parking structure is permanent. It's necessary to distract viewers from seeing the sloping of the ramps which are on the Woodward side. I still don't understand how some parking structures can have level floors, like the Riverfront East parking structure, while others like this one at 1003 Woodward and the new parking deck for the Park Shelton show the sloping of the ramps?

BTW, I thought the top floors of the 1003 Woodward parking structure would have room for residential units. All I see are floors just for parking. What happened to the residential units on top?

(Message edited by royce on December 23, 2005)
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Skulker
Member
Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3322
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.189.88.51
Posted on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 11:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jasoncw:
Not bad at all, you are defintitely on the right track with the design idea.


quote:

The Griswold/Larned garage is certainly available for Guardian tenants, although it's unlikely any discounts will be available like are sometimes offered for non-Sterling tenants.




And pray tell, what is that mothly cost? Last I checked for non-Buhl tenents, the cost was in excess of $250 for a month. A price that most employers are NOT willing to pick up.

Given that the First Street deck is full up to the eighth floor of nine by 8:45-9:00 am everty morning, I would hardly say that "people in these parts are unwilling to to sit on a shuttle"...but that just my daily obsservation as a preson who works downtown and is part of masses slogging between First Street / Joe Louis / Millenium / Cobo everytmorning and afternoon.
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Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13

Post Number: 796
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.14.122.204
Posted on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 11:50 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is also the site of the original 509 Club, for those who are interested. Later, the 509 Club moved to 3929 Woodward, and around 1962, the name changed to The Village.
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Detourdetroit
Member
Username: Detourdetroit

Post Number: 145
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.212.32.232
Posted on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 12:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

people need to take the bus. read the newspaper or start that novel sitting on your book shelf. meet some of your neighbors. basically, every single SMART and DDOT bus stops within a block or two of ROGVOY. start living like you give a damn.
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 1662
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.105.231
Posted on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 2:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Skulker,

Do you know the city's take on eliminating alleys? In this instance, it wouldn't be a bad idea to eliminate it, since the same company owns (and wants to develop) the whole block.
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Rsa
Member
Username: Rsa

Post Number: 733
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.236.187.222
Posted on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 2:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

there's two possible problems with eliminating that alleyway: 1.) the banking space has glass block along that wall to allow light into it. building directly up against it would not only block out any light that is getting to it now, but also open it up to possible damage by cars or people. 2.) the loading dock for the gaurdian building is in there. it is not impossible for them to incorporate this into the new deck, but would be rather tricky. it would be difficult to have the entrance and exit along that side, you would have to design the first level floor height to accomodate trucks, you wouldn't be able to have parking spaces in that area, you'd need to carve out more of the retail space for circulation, loading, garbage, etc.

also, keep in mid that they can't, nor would they want to match the building exactly. can't because the cost and width of materials, cost of labor, and weathering. if you were able to build it exactly the same, it would end up looking like a cheap knock-off. it is much better to contrast (thus bringing attention to the original and creating a dialogue between the two), or to simply build in the same theme (without mimicking).
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Sharmaal
Member
Username: Sharmaal

Post Number: 496
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 136.2.1.153
Posted on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 3:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think my concern would be getting too close to the Guardian and damaging it if they decide to take down the parking structure to put up a new building in 15 years. Wishful thinking eh?
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 2906
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 192.220.139.24
Posted on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 4:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Take RSA seriously, he's a rock star you know!
jjaba.
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Hamtramck_steve
Member
Username: Hamtramck_steve

Post Number: 2589
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 24.129.63.113
Posted on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 7:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

And pray tell, what is that mothly cost? Last I checked for non-Buhl tenents, the cost was in excess of $250 for a month. A price that most employers are NOT willing to pick up.

Given that the First Street deck is full up to the eighth floor of nine by 8:45-9:00 am everty morning, I would hardly say that "people in these parts are unwilling to to sit on a shuttle"...but that just my daily obsservation as a preson who works downtown and is part of masses slogging between First Street / Joe Louis / Millenium / Cobo everytmorning and afternoon.




How's $125 a month. Unfortunately, that deal is done with. No more spots at that price range are open.

Sounds like Sterling Group backed themselves into a tight little corner. Maybe if they dealt with other downtown property owners professionally, instead of issuing pronouncements like they're God's gift to whomever, more parking deals would be available for them.

Instead, I know quite a few people who are chuckling over their predicament.
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 1664
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 207.69.139.138
Posted on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 8:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rsa, thanks for the info on the alley. As for there being a cheap knock off for the parking structure, I think a parking structure can get away with it. After all it's not an office space addition to the building. The Opera House Garage is a wonderful addition to the downtown streetscape. And it is a cheap knock off of the Broadway facade of the Detroit Opera House. Yet it doesn't look cheap.

It's those drastic contrasts to old buildings that I don't like.... the former North/South wings of the DIA for example (although some folks liked them), or that "monstrosity" built onto the back of WSU's Old Main Building.

I can understand not wanting to have a nearly exact knockoff, although Jason's doctored pic sure looks awfully nice (building viewed from a distance).
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Skulker
Member
Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3324
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.189.88.51
Posted on Saturday, December 24, 2005 - 1:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So it is back up to $250 for folks who might work anywhere besides the Buhl then.

I personally have never known the Sterling Group to be anything but professional in their dealings. Don't know who would be mad at them or why. I personally am glad to have them in town and taking on buildings like the Guardian and doing the type of restoration they have accomplished there.

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