Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Will Both Races Ceasefire On The Internet In 2006? Previous Next
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William_x
Member
Username: William_x

Post Number: 193
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 4.165.12.91
Posted on Saturday, December 24, 2005 - 10:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Like I have always said everyone is entitle to their own opinions,and above all they deserve respect.This is a very infromative and interesting site,but like other sites that have internet bullies,and when a bullie starts there is NO justification for ones action including mine.As 2006 draws near hopefully this racism,judging,and bashing people both races will stop,and it don't stop....oh well.However when anyone post hate in their message they are really typing just how they feel,and hate bashing is what adds fuel to the fire.I may not be right all the time,and then again I am not wrong all the time neither.So in 2006 lets try things in a different way. Season Greetings, even to my many forum haters.
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Itsjeff
Member
Username: Itsjeff

Post Number: 5260
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.42.168.211
Posted on Saturday, December 24, 2005 - 10:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

William, I'm curious. Do you see criticism of you personally as an attack on your race?
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Publicmsu
Member
Username: Publicmsu

Post Number: 557
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.60.178.243
Posted on Saturday, December 24, 2005 - 11:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just another whitey crying for attention... when will it ever stop?
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Jams
Member
Username: Jams

Post Number: 2432
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.229.47.54
Posted on Sunday, December 25, 2005 - 12:10 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

William_X,
I hope you come to understand, all of us come from a variety of backgrounds. You cannot expect that everyone will see things from your or my viewpoint. We all respond per our own experiences. I haven't experienced your life, but neither have you experienced mine. With that in mind, a reactionary response generally gets the same in return. I've suggested to you in the past, and I'll hope you'll accept it in this season of peace, take a look at the lay of the forum before you respond.

You'll find many of us, truly, could care less about skin colour, economic standing, or many of those other things we allow to divide us.

May you and yours enjoy all of the Holidays and may Peace break out in the New Year.

(Message edited by jams on December 25, 2005)
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Digitaldom
Member
Username: Digitaldom

Post Number: 386
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 67.149.110.53
Posted on Sunday, December 25, 2005 - 12:16 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well said Jams..
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Digitaldom
Member
Username: Digitaldom

Post Number: 390
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 67.149.110.53
Posted on Sunday, December 25, 2005 - 12:42 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.. I retracted my previous post for various reasons.. Thought this was better..
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Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon

Post Number: 5304
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 166.165.153.137
Posted on Sunday, December 25, 2005 - 2:02 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You GO Jams.


William_X...hate to bring this up...but how do you come up with merely TWO choices from the incredible gradual range of pigmentation shining through the entire human race?!


Look again and see that perhaps YOU are in a 'box' with your thinking...sometimes when things are serveed to us in a particular order or understanding we merely continue to use that convention when it usually doesn't fit the real story.

Who is white? Who is black?

Who defines what is expected of us and how we're to behave?!

Who's box are we living in?!


IF we consider that and then come together...in groups with others like Jams and myself...then WE will start forward progress.


There is no need for ceasefire when there is no firefight. I see NO firefight. I see a whole shitload of individuals fearing, loathing, and even hating others BEFORE they've even MET!! What kind of ridiculousness is THAT?!

In MOST of our discussions here since you joined our community I've often sensed YOU reacting harshly to comments that seemed NOT intended to offend.

(this might be one of the hopefully unintended results of political correctness...people get too damn sensitive to remarks and assume the deliverer intended the worst when in MOST cases the opposite is more true)


Let's relax and continue the dialogue...and see what happens.


Somethings gotta give with all these unvoiced expectations each of us harbor which serve to keep us from truly experiencing everyone as total humans...not merely alien attitudes encased in variously colored flesh.


Cheers!
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Smogboy
Member
Username: Smogboy

Post Number: 1488
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.84.183.189
Posted on Sunday, December 25, 2005 - 2:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gannon nailed it on the head here as did Jams. There are so many other people here that neither fit into the Black or White camps and quite honestly probably don't want to be labeled into any camp.

Quite frankly I can't tell the race of the poster unless they say what they are. I usually read the post first and decide upon the post's merits WITHOUT considering race.

The only race here that matters is that you belong to the HUMAN race.

(My apologies to any aliens if they're reading this... my comments are meant to unite and not divide- I swear!)
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Digitaldom
Member
Username: Digitaldom

Post Number: 401
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 67.149.110.53
Posted on Sunday, December 25, 2005 - 2:37 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Amen.. Good will to ALL men.. Smogboy I have said all over the forum.. Things need to change.. We maybe faceless on this board.. But Detroit rising from the ashes needs to start here.
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Smogboy
Member
Username: Smogboy

Post Number: 1490
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.84.183.189
Posted on Sunday, December 25, 2005 - 3:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And all women too. Let's not forget them now.
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William_x
Member
Username: William_x

Post Number: 194
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 4.165.45.116
Posted on Sunday, December 25, 2005 - 3:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Smog!!! I suppose you can't tell the Detroiters from the Suburbanites neither huh? I did not submit the thread as a race issue,but the contents of the thread is a reality,and when it comes to race issues many run with it,or some will offer a solution.Or like on here inner-city Detroit people will not allow outsiders to bash Detroit.Digit,you are right coming together does start on this forum,but regardless to what camp (as you call it) a person belongs to a person have rights to belong anywhere they choose,and that don't give them rights to bash others.Us inner-city feel and see the effects that the media have put on Detroit,and unless a individual lives here in the inner-city no outsider really knows how we feel.Gannon..all do respect I am should you see the BIG PICTURE on here just like this site's administrator does,and I am wondering why you ask that and see it here everyday.My closing question is to you Gannon. Do you really believe that people who live in Detroit would bad mouth their own city? Hendrix was loved and supported by Suburbanites, and when he losted they losted.So Digit & Gannon,Smog,I hope I answered your questions. Happy Holiday
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The_aram
Member
Username: The_aram

Post Number: 4624
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.31.87
Posted on Sunday, December 25, 2005 - 3:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I suppose you can't tell the Detroiters from the Suburbanites neither huh?




I can. How's that HP water tasting?
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Corktownmark
Member
Username: Corktownmark

Post Number: 140
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 68.42.79.14
Posted on Sunday, December 25, 2005 - 3:36 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Feliz Navidad
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Smogboy
Member
Username: Smogboy

Post Number: 1492
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.84.183.189
Posted on Sunday, December 25, 2005 - 3:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Okay given your scenario, can you tell what race I am, where I live based upon my few words here??

I've seen people passionate about cities even though they don't live there any more (I still care deeply about my hometown even though I haven't been there in over 30+ years). I try not to put up barriers- whether it be race, Eight Mile Road, gender, sexual preference, religious beliefs or otherwise. I will continue to embrace people on ALL sides on all issues- do I have to agree with them? No, but in order for people to come together, let's see what we all have in common in that big picture you speak of.

(Message edited by smogboy on December 25, 2005)
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The_aram
Member
Username: The_aram

Post Number: 4625
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.31.87
Posted on Sunday, December 25, 2005 - 3:49 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great post, smogboy. my beef comes from hypocrisy, which is all too prevalent in these parts. When you attack someone for being exactly what you are, and try to conceal and obscure the ground you're coming from, that's when I get pissed off.

Say what you will about me and my viewpoints and my perspective, but you can't say I'm not completely honest about who I am and where I come from. This forum is different from a lot of others you'll find on the internet because it's based on a fairly small community in the grand scheme of things. There's lots of us who know a few or even dozens of Forumers offline on a personal basis. And I think that's a good thing. It gives you a better perspective on what you're reading and who it's coming from. I'm not saying everyone should out themselves, but being honest about things like gender and race and (in general) where you live, that's fairly important. for instance, i know we've had our differences in the past, but when ilovedetroit started posting here and all of the sudden decided to spring it on everyone that he was playing a joke on us all along with his racial identity and gender and all of that... it meant a lot because all of the sudden his posts took on an entire different perspective. he lied, and as a result, the whole ild vs. metrodetguy shit evolved.

i may be hounding william_x a little too hard, but for the lengths he's taken to attack everyone with verbal to physical threats and awful, horrifying racial and sexuality-based insults, i think he deserves to be exposed for the amount of bullshit lying he's done to boost his own persona. there's no excuse for someone to do the things he's doing and justify it by telling lies about himself that a simple Google search easily refuted.
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Digitaldom
Member
Username: Digitaldom

Post Number: 406
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 67.149.110.53
Posted on Sunday, December 25, 2005 - 4:02 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Smogboy once again.. Were on the same train.. I agree with you 100%.. Willian_X Of course you have the right to your opinion this is the USA..

This is some advice to you.. I am not a senior forumer or think I know anything (because I will never know anything till I am dead) There is always someone smarter than me out there...

But alot of people are judging your post from other comments you have made on other forum posts. As am I.. Hopefully we don't lose our right to free speech. The only reason I said anything about you in other forums is you (in previous posts) tended to get really offended by attacks.. I agree they are uncalled for.. But posting a threat is beyond defending yourself, and this maybe a free speech forum (per say) person threats are NOT welcomed in this forum. You really need to stick to the facts.. If you are pissed at there responses, keep in mind they have there opinion as well.. I have gotten beaten down on this forum but it had nothing to do with race or where I lived. It was because I didn't do my research... Almost 99% people on this forum will point out wrong facts, diction, or grammer, not race. Unless you point it out to be an issue, then watch out... The dogs will come out...

I have honestly put some pretty stupid posts forward, and I don't deny it.. Too drunk too stupid.. And otherwise.. But take emotion out of it.. You really seem like a person who wants to make a difference but you are going about it the wrong way. Someone attacks you.. back it with facts, not with anger..

This is advice, not an attack. We are all here to learn more... This isn't the streets.. this is a forum..
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Dove7
Member
Username: Dove7

Post Number: 1873
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 24.5.195.127
Posted on Sunday, December 25, 2005 - 4:05 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Williams_x,

I don't know you nor am I trying to meet anyone on here. I keep this forum thing on the internet. My advice to you..Don't put your heart, soul and emotions into this. seriously. Even if you are going to debate, debate and let it just be that. don't ask nor request for people to get into this Eutopia, can we all just get along thing.

i say this because some are too deep into this. There are many that you can tell who they are, with or without a face. They brng who they are to the forum and net. Others are Chameleons and then there are others who are infatuated with who you are, what you do and your pattern of what you say. nothing wrong with this, but some get too deep into it and suddenly some think that there is a obligation and it's all about them. I can give you many examples that are relevant on here..But it's also happens in the real world.

Again, just see it as is..A bunch of people who have opinions, lies, facts and all kinds of shit..Leave the stuff online when you turn off your computer and get on with your real life. Some of us have one and some on here don't. That's the real reality of how it is out here. Don't get 'caughtup'.
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Digitaldom
Member
Username: Digitaldom

Post Number: 408
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 67.149.110.53
Posted on Sunday, December 25, 2005 - 4:25 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good post Dove7..
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Ilovedetroit
Member
Username: Ilovedetroit

Post Number: 1903
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 4.224.108.117
Posted on Sunday, December 25, 2005 - 12:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I love everyone...but Detroiters do have that special panache that "might" make us just a touch more fabulous :-)
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William_x
Member
Username: William_x

Post Number: 195
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 4.165.45.205
Posted on Sunday, December 25, 2005 - 1:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dove good advice,and I don't take this seriously. I do take it serious when someone who don't know shit about me attack me on the internet.So you're saying its okay for others to take the internet seriously,and for me not to do that? I don't take these typed words serious,but I do take the person who is typing these words serious,and words is what seperates reality from cyberspace.Thanks anyway Dove7. Right on ilovedetroit,you indeed is a true Detroiter.
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Dove7
Member
Username: Dove7

Post Number: 1874
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 24.5.195.127
Posted on Monday, December 26, 2005 - 9:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

William_x wrote:So you're saying its okay for others to take the internet seriously,and for me not to do that?

I didn't tell you, nor did I stated that it's ok for others. What I 'suggested' to you is not to get caught up. Look, there are many on here who are very serious about this shit. Seriously. When you se others get too serious, don't fuck with them. My reason, they have issues. This is the meaning of my point of others taking this too serious.

I gave this suggestion to you because you took the time to go into detail of personal attacks and briefed on others issues.

I reply back tooo, but like I said, say what you gotta say and lave it at that. Don't let this thing get into your head. The real world is bad enough. But you are a grown man and have the right to asy what you want to say. So it;s your call.
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Llyn
Member
Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1332
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.61.197.206
Posted on Monday, December 26, 2005 - 2:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, I appreciate william_x's efforts to call a truce, whatever the motivation. Time will tell.

One sidebar, be careful whom you assume is a "suburbanite". (Not that living in the suburbs automatically qualifies someone as unable to make a good comment... or makes them white.) Many or most of the people I've noticed you debating with (when I've noticed) are city dwellers, and I'm far from knowing everyone on the forum.

Grace and peace to us all.

llyn - proud city of Detroit resident.
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Jblaze
Member
Username: Jblaze

Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 69.14.120.66
Posted on Monday, December 26, 2005 - 4:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Question, as i am new here. Is "William_x" trying to parody/mock someone, or a type of person, with his atrocious grammar and spelling?

Frankly, phrases like "and when he (Hendrix) losted they losted" almost seem over the top, like the mistakes are intentional. A poor education is nothing to joke about - it is the biggest aspect of the problems that face our dear city.

Or is he just lighting a phat one as he posts??

No disrespect, just curious.

P.S. Excellent posts Jams and Gannon.
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Arab_guyumich
Member
Username: Arab_guyumich

Post Number: 712
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 24.192.47.93
Posted on Monday, December 26, 2005 - 6:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Frankly, phrases like "and when he (Hendrix) losted they losted" almost seem over the top, like the mistakes are intentional. A poor education is nothing to joke about - it is the biggest aspect of the problems that face our dear city.

Or is he just lighting a phat one as he posts??




I'll bet dollars to dope that weed is to blame.
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Goat
Member
Username: Goat

Post Number: 7949
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.228.65.21
Posted on Monday, December 26, 2005 - 6:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nah, weed will just make you miss a word or two in a sentence. The above is just piss-poor grammar at its finest.
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William_x
Member
Username: William_x

Post Number: 198
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 4.165.45.177
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 2:06 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is all I can say before 2006.Regardless to the grammer or whatever..stop being so damn ignorant.Because each message is loud and clear in the body of the messages,and I will close the year out with this point.Regardless to how much you posters bitch and groan you can't change nobody with your typed words,and that's what I mean by others taking the internet serious.Race and hate will end the world.In closing I know you white (rightious) people seen one of your own 350lb assholes squeeze his big ass into a room to break into a safe hahahahaha and got busted on video tape. Wheeew thank GOD it wasn't a Black guy,or he would be the headlines of this forum.My point is Blacks isn't the only ones who steal and rob.I have enjoyed posting in Ebonics this year.I have seen just how whites want to be GODS.
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Hornwrecker
Member
Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 612
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.2.148.197
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 2:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2862
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 2:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now, we all know that I'm no grammar giant, but damn! It almost seems too good to be true. How the hell do you even find your way to a keyboard, let alone write something so perfectly incoherent (yet somehow manage to get the racism part across) and nearly illegible. That's a gift in itself, I must say. Please, that's not even quality Ebonics. It's a plain pidgin language. Don't insult the true Ebonics-speaking population.

This isn't about hate, my friend. It's about effective (or even semi-effective) communication skill. You can't expect us to fixate on your message if we can barely understand it. And, the little that does come through is extremely unflattering and racist. How do you want the rest of this forum to respond to your little tantrums? With kid gloves? Quit expecting to be coddled like a little child.
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Jltyler
Member
Username: Jltyler

Post Number: 204
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 68.61.100.18
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 2:47 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What I don't understand, with the militant background that you claim to have, why you give 2 fucks about what some of these folks think.

There are some racist folks on this board on both sides of the color line. But, there are plenty that are not. My pro-black statements in plenty of my posts could be percieved as racist. But, you know what, I don't give a shit because thats how I feel and thats how I view the world thru these eyes.

We all have are arch-nemisis' on this forum. There are a couple people that I've noticed like to respond to me. I don't let it get to me though. We don't see eye to eye, and thats fine.

What I think you need to do before posting Will X is step back and take a couple deep breaths, many times a post will enrage us, when we reply our emotions tend to not let us properly word our opinions or thoughts.
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Jblaze
Member
Username: Jblaze

Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 69.14.120.66
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 1:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My goodness - that last post by our Mr. X appears to confirm that his terrible grammar and spelling is intentional. And, as a person of color who can appreciate clever ebonics-based humor, i cannot say i find it terribly humorous or effective.

Of course, we need not believe him - that whole bit about the 350 lb white ass squeezing into a room, etc., and others like it, may well provide the best support to my "Phatty Smoke" theory.

I submit this proposition to you, dear forumers, for consideration and debate - "William_x" is actually a bit of a self-hating Marshall Mathers lookalike getting really blazed and then "typing" (and i use that term loosely) away about his struggle against da perceived Man (i.e. the father who did not love him)! ;-))

Spark another owl willy.

But teasing aside william, if you want to talk about serious matters like race and social (in)justice, come clear and come correct, or don't come at all.

You are making some very valid points that are getting lost in all your vitriol and terrible writing. Elevate the discussion and you will be heard.

(Message edited by Jblaze on December 27, 2005)
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Goat
Member
Username: Goat

Post Number: 7955
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 65.92.101.212
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 1:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

William x. You are right. Blacks are not the only one's who rob and steal and I would love for you to try and find someone on this forum who has said that.

Now with the above being said, I disagree that no on has changed because of the posts typed up in here. As a matter of fact, I HAVE! I am sure I'm not the only one either. I am sure that there are others who have a different perception of the city, others who have understood (though somewhat) what it's like to live in another persons shoes, and others who look at societal problems from a different viewpoint.

William x, regardless of spelling and grammar I encourage you to use the enter key so that your post isn't one big paragraph that is difficult to read. Have a happy new year.
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Super_d
Member
Username: Super_d

Post Number: 481
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 69.245.76.31
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 3:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

William_x keep up the heat in 06'__ it's really funny how they don't get 'IT'!(LOL)__ We have had to deal with 'IT' fo' over 400 years!

super d(motordetroit)
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Goat
Member
Username: Goat

Post Number: 7957
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.71.67.177
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 5:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What's there to get? A racist post is a racist post regardless of the colour of the idiot who posted it!
As for the structure of his posts...again, what's there to get?

Some of William_x's posts have some good merits but it's too bad they are lost by incoherence.
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Super_d
Member
Username: Super_d

Post Number: 482
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 69.245.78.75
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 7:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

'IT' is tha' reaction to racism__ how William_x is so profoundly stripping white supremacy's authority and legitimacy. The fact is, since tha' 'take-over' of this foreign land, white americans have suffered from a uncertainty as to who they actually are__ whites have historically captured the essence of Black culture and use us as a symbol of limits__metophorically speaking, as an alien. If anything william_x has sophistically made most of the white forumers on this site feel instantly american__ by making ya'll gauge yall'self metaphorically as an 'outsiders' thru unusual rhetoric.

super d(motordetroit)
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Bertz
Member
Username: Bertz

Post Number: 487
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.61.15.89
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 4:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Super_d, William_x, thanks for reminding the forum that it is ok to be a racist so long as one is black.
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2867
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 5:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Super D, if you really believe that William X has the mental capacity to do all that you've just said, then you're more warpped than I imagined. It seems as if you are looking far too deeply into something that's obviously not there. William X has made it adundantly clear his intentions, and more importantly his poorly thought-out view of the world. I truly believe that he really doesn't even know what he believes. Poor thing.

Super D, you may be able to articulate your views, but if you got all of that out of what William X has said you are one helluva' spin doctor.
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Karl
Member
Username: Karl

Post Number: 726
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 72.25.177.194
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 6:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This seemed more of a "Non-Detroit Issue" but after reading thru this thread, perhaps the questions at the end of this rather short article would be helpful to this side of the forum, as well as helpful to Detroit:

Prejudice

By TED HAYES
December 28, 2005; Page A14

American blacks who are affiliated with the Republican Party are vigorously vilified by Democrats, especially black Democrats. Uncle Tom, sell-out, Oreo -- the list of slurs is long.

But it is not only insults. I am the founder and director of a unique, progressive homeless facility in downtown Los Angeles, known as the Dome Village. Yet the 35 men, women and children and their pets who call the Dome Village home are being "evicted" from privately owned property after 12-and-a-half years -- apparently on account of my political beliefs and activities. You see, though I am a leading homeless activist, I am also a conservative Republican and a strong supporter of President Bush.

Here's how the situation played out. Recently, I was invited to address a local Republican Women's Club; my landlord read an article in the local paper reporting on the event. Soon after, I received a notice raising the Dome Village rent from $2,500 a month to $18,330. Shocked, I inquired as to the seriousness of the change and the property owner blurted out that the cause of our "eviction" was "because you are Republican." He said that as a Democrat, he was tired of helping me and the Dome Village. In other words, let the homeless be damned.

And people think the Democrats are the party of compassion and tolerance.

Private property should be protected, of course, and I have no intention of causing any trouble for this property owner as we part ways. Whatever he does with his valuable land -- it is only a few blocks from the Staples Center -- is no concern of mine, and I will not go to court.

Still, I cannot help but be saddened by the whole business. When I founded the Dome Village 12 years ago, we had an understanding that he could ask for his property back at any time for any reason, and I would say "absolutely" without hesitation. Still, his reason was prejudice against Republicans.

We see this across the country. Michael Steele, the lieutenant governor of Maryland and a Republican candidate for the Senate, has been crudely denigrated on racial grounds. A prominent leftist Web site, for instance, depicted him as "Sambo," among other aspersions. When Condoleezza Rice was nominated as Secretary of State, she faced similar treatment: editorial cartoons depicting her as a racial caricature, personalities calling her "Aunt Jemima" on liberal talk radio, and so forth. Clarence Thomas, Ward Connerly, Colin Powell, Thomas Sowell and other black conservatives regularly face similar smears.

These conservatives are attacked not because of the validity or judicious consideration of their views but because those views are supposedly heterodox for American blacks. Yet it is my opinion that many black people in the U.S. are politically and philosophically conservative -- and many are in fact actually closeted Republicans, fearful of persecution by friends, business associates, society clubs, school mates and even churches.

It is time for American blacks to have a conversation about the phenomenon of Democrats persecuting black Republicans. Why is this happening? What is it that the Democrats don't want black folks to understand about Republicans? What is it that the Democrats don't want black folks to know about Democrats? And how is it that we have come to this point -- after having endured so much -- where we have ourselves curtailed the freedom of political expression through the threat of retaliatory consequences?

Mr. Hayes is a homeless activist in Los Angeles.
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Romanized
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Username: Romanized

Post Number: 170
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 69.245.75.239
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 9:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Come up with an original damn thought. If you just want to make this about posting articles, then I'll post a book that says everthing Mr. Hayes said is bullsh*t.
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Super_d
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Username: Super_d

Post Number: 484
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 69.245.78.75
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 9:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

'L.michigan'__ William_x is asking the question to 'y-t' (as they often wonder about us)__ ,"How does it feel to be a problem"?. How does it feel to be "them"/ or "those people"?

To william_x, parodoxically, whites are considered 'them'(or like I stated before, as 'outsiders'), thus, in x's world the burden falls on whites to do all the "cultural" and "moral" work necessary fo' salutary race relations on this site and the 'inner-city'__ the problem is that whites can't, solve it without 'Black profanation'__ they can't claim there vicious americana ideologies without Blacks.

-'Niggers' instantly reminds 'them' that they are american.

-I be,he be,she be, reminds 'them' that they are american.

-The social positions of many Blacks instantly remind 'them' that they are american.

-The Black homicide rate instantly reminds 'them' that they are american.

-The Black male jail population instantly reminds 'them' that they are american.

What would white america be without Blacks????


'Bertz' _In this vicious ideology and practice of white supremacy, blacks can not be racist__we can only react to racism.

super d(motordetroit)
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 727
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 72.25.177.194
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 9:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Romanized, sorry to offend you. It just seems that if blacks treat blacks this way because of politics, maybe whites shouldn't take blacks too seriously on the issue of race and what blacks consider offensive. The questions seem valid and germaine to this thread. Sorry you didn't like the thoughts expressed - apparently they are not thoughts you agree with.
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 728
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 72.25.177.194
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 9:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Romanized, sorry to offend you. It just seems that if blacks treat blacks this way because of politics, maybe whites shouldn't take blacks too seriously on the issue of race and what blacks consider offensive. The questions seem valid and germaine to this thread. Sorry you didn't like the thoughts expressed - apparently they are not thoughts you agree with.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2871
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 10:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the psychoanalysis, Super D, but you should probably leave it for the professionals. You have a pattern of telling other's what they know and what they are thinking instead of letting them articulate their own views. Believe it or not, not everything has a deeper meaning or an ulterior motive.
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Romanized
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Username: Romanized

Post Number: 171
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 69.245.75.239
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 10:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whites can do what they like. They have been for four-hundred years, and I expect them to keep on. This did not alter the truth then, or now.

And I'm sorry my comments set of cascade of insincere apologies. I really am. Keep em', I'll be just fine.

And light on that post button sport. You nervous?
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Llyn
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Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1334
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.61.197.206
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 10:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We went from -

william_x: "As 2006 draws near hopefully this racism,judging,and bashing people both races will stop,and it don't stop....oh well.However when anyone post hate in their message they are really typing just how they feel,and hate bashing is what adds fuel to the fire.I may not be right all the time,and then again I am not wrong all the time neither.So in 2006 lets try things in a different way. "

To -

llyn: "Well, I appreciate william_x's efforts to call a truce, whatever the motivation. Time will tell. "

To:

william_x: "I have seen just how whites want to be GODS."

And as of this post -

llyn: "Apparently it didn't take all that much time."
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Johnnny5
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Username: Johnnny5

Post Number: 111
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 68.61.55.140
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 10:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"-'Niggers' instantly reminds 'them' that they are american.

-I be,he be,she be, reminds 'them' that they are american.

-The social positions of many Blacks instantly remind 'them' that they are american.

-The Black homicide rate instantly reminds 'them' that they are american.

-The Black male jail population instantly reminds 'them' that they are american."

These things remind me that a large portion of the black population in America has problems. The fact that we are both free to post this crap reminds me that we are both Americans.

(Message edited by Johnnny5 on December 28, 2005)
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2872
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 11:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Llyn,

The whole idea of his truce is that he really does want one...if HE gets to call all of the shots, and if HE gets to be called right and the peacemaker. It's always conditional, tilted, and selfish; not a real truce by any stretch of the imagination. It was done in a completely passive-aggresive way, much more akin to a manifesto. What bothers me is that I wouldn't have minded if he would have simply been honest about it and called it what it really is. It wasn't the extension of an olive branch to anyone here, at least not soley. It was the extension of an olive branch with a knife in the other hand being hidden behind the back for quick use.
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 729
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.230.22.99
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 11:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Romanized - OK, I'll take back the apology. And yes, in the past, whites had more freedoms than blacks. But this is about today, 2005, and no, I'm not nervous. We're on level ground here.

So - do you think you can try answering the questions at the end of my post? Or do you just want to continue all the bitterness and the discussion will go nowhere?
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Romanized
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Username: Romanized

Post Number: 172
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 69.245.75.239
Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 1:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

First off, run and get permission from your parents to be on they Internet. Because if you think that here today, 2005, there is such a level playing field between whites and blacks, your about two years old. Not even the dullest of rednecked bigot would put out something that naive.

So if you want to quiz me either check your assumptions, or come back in about 20 years.
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Ddaydave
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Username: Ddaydave

Post Number: 172
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 67.149.185.244
Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 1:10 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Karl I don`t want to stereotype but I`ve never met a black republican in detroit..
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 730
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.230.22.99
Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 1:20 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Earth to Romanized: I was speaking of this forum - a level playing field. Get a grip.

Ddaydave: It is a big city. Perhaps the article is correct - black Republicans in Detroit are more comfortable in the closet. If they have to endure in person what conservatives put up with on this forum, who can blame them?
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Jams
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Username: Jams

Post Number: 2443
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.218.156.57
Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 1:24 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ddaydave, Then you haven't looked very hard.

Gross generalities like that come back and bite you in the ass.
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Jams
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Username: Jams

Post Number: 2444
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.218.156.57
Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 1:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Example #1:

http://www.keithabutler.com/de fault.asp


quote:

In 1982, Mr. Keith A. Butler became a member of the Michigan Republican Party.




You really want to start a truce? Accept the fact no "racial group" is homogenous.
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Ddaydave
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Username: Ddaydave

Post Number: 174
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 67.149.185.244
Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 1:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No I havent Jams I`m sure there are many in detroit. I was speaking the truth when I said I havent met any.. In detroit with the passing of the last elections most blacks I talked with hated bush and the republican party with a passion.. thats not what I would call a scientific poll by any means but it was what I ran into..
and thank you for the link..
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D_is_for
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Username: D_is_for

Post Number: 182
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 208.45.245.121
Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 12:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know that a week ago I swore off posting because of a very similar discussion, but hipocrisy_x's posts have sucked me back in... at least for one more

I have met only a few racists on this board, and frankly, I wouldn't have GUESSED any of them to be white.

And Mr. X, for the record, the only way I've ever been able to discern a forumer's race (unless they came out and said it) is when they go out of their way to make it evident in their language. By posting in ebonics (if that's what you're doing) you make it clear for the rest of us. Write with ambiguity, and I have a feeling you'll find that race enters the discussion much less frequently.

And, Mr. X, last I checked there was no residency requirment to enjoy this forum... lucky for you too, eh? I may not live in the D, but I work here, spend the bulk of my time here, pay taxes here, spend my money here, and love the city. Maybe if people like you would stop telling suburbanites that they are aliens in this landscape, they might come back to the city to spend time and money, which we all know would make a world of difference in the region.

Oh, and last but not least, Mr. X, I'll take all this talk about personal attacks a little more seriously when I see you stop dishing them out.

Check tha meer foo, yo ignance is showin!
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Goat
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Username: Goat

Post Number: 7966
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.228.201.179
Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 12:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Super_d. Interesting post which I can see from your POV has merits...something I will not deny nor argue with.

We can say the same exact thing for any other culture as well. Heck, it doesn't matter if "they" are from the same culture. If I am talking about a group of people I always say "they".
"They were being assholes". "They were so funny, I couldn't stop laughing". "They grabbed a cab and quickly left."

Do you understand where I am coming from? Jams was correct, not everyting is a deep as you or William_x or anyother person might want it to be.
Does the healing have to come from whites first? ABSOLUTELY! But you have to give "them" a chance. The same can be said for black folks. When you have racist fools saying that "they" all steal and are lazy. Get to know them first and give them a chance to prove it otherwise.

The problem is no one is willing to give the other person THE CHANCE to prove who "they" really are.
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 737
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.230.22.99
Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 3:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In the interest of more specific discussion, I once again pose these questions from Ted Hayes, fellow African American:

"It is time for American blacks to have a conversation about the phenomenon of some Democrats (white & black) persecuting black Republicans. Why is this happening? What is it that some Democrats (white & black) don't want black folks to understand about Republicans? What is it that some Democrats (white & black) don't want black folks to know about Democrats? And how is it that we (blacks) have come to this point -- after having endured so much -- where we have ourselves curtailed the freedom of political expression through the threat of retaliatory consequences?"

Is there anyone posting here (a thread dealing with "races ceasefire") with adequte depth to address these questions sans sarcasm and/or vulgarity?
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Goat
Member
Username: Goat

Post Number: 7970
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.228.201.179
Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 3:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On this forum...maybe but a few. Don't hold your breath.
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Super_d
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Username: Super_d

Post Number: 485
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 69.245.78.75
Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 6:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The ecology of race is more complex than most whites want to admit__ to whites, race is often a means of testing mettle and malleability of americana self-identity. What ever skills of interpretation that white's possess have to become deeper. The erudition process as to be more nuanced. Race has to be challenged by whites not Blacks!

Maybe the biggest issue in the complexity of race relations is the white authoritarians that blandly endorse laws that are aimed at equality and justice which are often interpreted by those who have not suffered any racial antipathy and are usually more propitious to the dominate society__ then too many officers/overseers of our legal and political culture continue to retard the ecology of racial progress by involking the same justic and equal principles for which we bravely fought and hung like strange fruit in the southern trees for. In otherwords we supposed to trust the fox with the hens__ the same fox that abused the hens in the first place.

'Blacks americans' have fought to make america all that it should be and were not interested in a 'betwixt and between' society__ we knew it would never happen, all we wanted was a society that did'nt make a big difference in how we live our lives, how we view each other, and how we are denied social privilege. In otherwords we never wanted intergration__ 'Seperate but equal' has always been tha' cry fo' real Black survival, but instead it's more like blacks have to be included, intergrated, well behaved and worthy of acceptance into y-t's way of life__ whites made it this way, now you have the burden to the question," Can we all just get along?".

It's to bad, that perhaps, the another tragedy of race relations in america is the unwillingness to speak-out about what truly bothers americans. Even worst, many of you on this site blame Brothas' like myself 'ras', 'william_x', and 'mellodrama' who resist the race transcending mythology for extending rather than exposing the grip race has on america (his)-tory.


super d(motordetroit)
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Llyn
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Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1335
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.61.197.206
Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 8:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Maybe the biggest issue in the complexity of race relations is the white authoritarians that blandly endorse laws that are aimed at equality and justice which are often interpreted by those who have not suffered any racial antipathy and are usually more propitious to the dominate society__"

Explain to me how affirmative action is better for the white society?

It seems like all you can see is how far there is to go and not how far things of come and where they are headed.

I'm frikkin' tired of being told how bad I suck. I'm tired of being lumped in with people who don't give a flyin' f--k because I'm white - well, mostly white.

That goes for Ras and william_x and mellodrama, too. I don't give a rip about extending American history. To this very day it sucks. America is a facade. My problem is the way people are treated no matter what their position or descent.

If someone wants separate but equal, then they should try treating people with the respect that they expect for themselves.
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Super_d
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Username: Super_d

Post Number: 486
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 205.188.116.201
Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 1:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

'Lynn__"...mostly white"???? anyhow, Affirmative Action and anti-capitalistic tactics reep wit'cutural penalization.

The assumption that 'we' are not qualified is racist__ it allows white men to assume an air of superiority, based on the color of skin and not performance.

'Affrimative Action' has also created a vacuum in the Black community by allowing educated 'middle class' Black professionals to escape the social disorder of the Black community and offer there services to a community that is opposite in pigmentation and cultural likeness.

Other groups such as Women, Gays, Hispanics and Asians have capitalized off of 'Affirmative Action' programs due to special niche markets in new technological fields, in which I have no problem wit' cause in a supreme society that whites feel inferior to blacks, physically, mentally and sexuality it's only right to fill the void of diversity that Blacks so bravely faught and died for.

Intergration, Affirmative Action/ or whatever you want to call it, has never worked in this country because it has always been pitched as 'equal rights' but too often has been practiced as equal rights for those who mostly act like whites. 'Affirmative Action' programs, as it relates to blacks, are usually undermined because most Blacks who are recruited for 'them' often are those who are most likely to mimick european similarities. Affirmative Action feeds cultural deracination and denudementation.

In a perfect world, a win win situation would be if ma' brothas' and sista's would lead a drive to recruit black leaders, churches, professionals, buisness owners to assault our own social and economic problems___ and eliminate the need for anticapitalistc tactics. This would eliminate the pressure of 'white guilt' and the 'Black threat' that most whites fear.

super d(motordetroit)
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Karl
Member
Username: Karl

Post Number: 741
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.230.22.99
Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 1:20 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excuse me, but:

"anti-capitalistic tactics reep wit'cutural penalization."


"by allowing educated 'middle class' Black professionals to escape the social disorder of the Black community and offer there services to a community that is opposite in pigmentation and cultural likeness"

"whites feel inferior to blacks, physically, mentally and sexuality"

"Affirmative Action feeds cultural deracination and denudementation."

"a win win situation would be if ma' brothas' and sista's would lead a drive to recruit black leaders, churches, professionals, buisness owners to assault our own social and economic problems___ and eliminate the need for anticapitalistc tactics"

huh? Do I need to be drinking or smoking something to understand this stuff??
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2877
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 1:20 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Super D, are you implying that because a Black American does well in school that that means he or she is any less "Black?" That's what I pulled from that. Qualification for the program (in college admissions, at least, and I assume that's what we're talking about) is based on academics, not on the behavior of the minority. If you're talking about for interviews and such, I guess you could make that argument, though, I still don't think it's all that powerful or persuasive.
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Llyn
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Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1336
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.61.197.206
Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 5:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Superd - lmich suggested one of my responses. Affirmative action is about qualifications. If there is no difference between black and white respondents regarding qualifications, then we can do away with affirmative action right now.

Of course, the majority of the black community seems to disagree with you. Doesn't mean they are "right".

But if you can't even speak for all blacks, what makes you think you can speak for all whites? You and a few others use these broad generalizations about "whites this" and "whites that". Case in point:

"To william_x, parodoxically, whites are considered 'them'(or like I stated before, as 'outsiders'), thus, in x's world the burden falls on whites to do all the "cultural" and "moral" work necessary fo' salutary race relations on this site and the 'inner-city'__ the problem is that whites can't, solve it without 'Black profanation'__ they can't claim there vicious americana ideologies without Blacks."

This is followed up with that vicious list of how whites feel better when black are called niggers, etc. etc.

Agreed that there are expectations in the business world for conformance to certain cultural norms. Agreed that these things should not influence economic opportunities, but do. Do these issues need to be heard? Yes. Should blacks (and whites who understand) speak out on these issues? Yes.

What' I'm trying to say now, though, is that this is not an excuse for insulting people because they are white. The philosophy that blacks can't be racist is an excuse... a cop out to lump all whites in one convenient category. In that world, if you're white, then you are (1) automatically racist by virtue of skin color and (2) there's nothing you can personally do to change that position. It's hopeless. It's guilt by skin color. It's racist.

Why even have these conversations if that's the case? If your mind is already made up? I mean, your point at its most fundamental basis is that blacks need to empower themselves, anyhow. What difference does it make what whites do or think then, anyhow?

And regardless of your approach, I think you really don't understand who your friends are.

'Lynn__"...mostly white"????

Llyn - one sixteenth First Nations.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2885
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 9:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Super D, from what I can gather, can not be satisfied until his exact view of where we (all of us) should be is implemented, here. I hate to break it to you Super D, and this may come as a surprised, but you can't (and won't) always get exactly what you want. The sooner you realize that, the more effective you will be.

I also agree with Llyn on the last point. You really don't understand or know who your friends or supporters are. You're content with putting everyone at an arms difference not realizing that much of what you speak has a lot of truth it it that we recognize and take to heart. It is how you vocalize it, and you insistence to be placed onto your own high pedestal or in your corner.

You'd be surprised at how much everyone agrees with some of your points if you'd just stop overreacting and flying off the handle. You truly do catch more flies with honey than you do with schitt, no joke.

So, come on down, and join us all in a meaningful, respectful, and information-filled conversation. The "My way, or the Highway" attitude isn't going to work, nor will it ever.

*Awaiting a venom-filled reply...*

(Message edited by lmichigan on December 30, 2005)
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Rasputin
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Username: Rasputin

Post Number: 3391
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 152.163.100.195
Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 12:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In answer to X's thread starting question: Hell NO!! We're just getting started .....

quote:

Institutional racism

Institutional racism (or structural racism or systemic racism) is a form of racism that occurs in institutions such as public bodies and corporations, including universities. In the UK, the inquiry following the murder of Stephen Lawrence defined institutional racism as the collective failure of an organisation to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture or ethnic origin.

The term was coined by black activist Stokely Carmichael. In the late 1960's he defined the term as "the collective failure of an organisation to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture or ethnic origin".[1]

Institutional racism is distinguished from the bigotry or racial bias of individuals by the existence of systemic, pervasive and habitual policies and practices that have the effect of disadvantaging certain racial or ethnic groups. Race-based discrimination in housing, employment, education and bank lending (see redlining), for example, are all forms of institutional racism.

One common incarnation involves the denial of employment opportunities to individuals lacking nationally local education or experience. This promotes both societal and cultural segregation based only on educational background, and not specifically the individual's race or ethnicity. ...

Institutional racism is often functionally integrated; that is, the disparate elements of racism and bigotry in institutional racism function in an integrated manner, as part of a gestalt.


When that European concept dies ... then maybe!

Black-atcha ..... citing, "From the Cradle to the Grave!" and very personal.
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Llyn
Member
Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1337
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.61.197.206
Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 1:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ras, you say that like people are going to disagree with you. (Well, maybe Karl with his "perfect America" philosophy.) This is my point, that individuals should be differentiated from institutions.

American History X-atcha...
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Romanized
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Username: Romanized

Post Number: 173
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 69.245.75.239
Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 1:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You have to be an idiot to not know white women are the largest beneficiaries of affirmative action. Not to mention universities are now screening out asians to keep up the number of whites.

Indeed if there is to be any truce a) stop operating by your racist assumptions, b) quit butting your nose into the back communities business (ex. black republicans). How is that any of your damn business?
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2904
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 8:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Exactly. There is no mistake why White women are now the majority on the campus of most public universities. Still, they (along with minorities) still hit a brick wall when trying to leap from college to the business world. That why the most of the richest Black Americans are entrepreneurs, because they are unable to get through the still decidedly discrimantory business practices of yesteryear that still exist today.
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 760
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.230.22.99
Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 9:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmichigan said: "That why the most of the richest Black Americans are entrepreneurs, because they are unable to get through the still decidedly discrimantory business practices of yesteryear that still exist today."

If they are "unable to get through" then who are they selling to, and how are they becoming rich? How do they reach their customers, and overcome "the still decidedly discrimantory business practices" to make money?
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2905
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 10:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm talking when they try to rise through a the ranks of a company/corporation, not customer relations. There is little room for advancement, still. Karl, seriously, what rock have you been living under?
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Ghetto_butterfly
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Username: Ghetto_butterfly

Post Number: 566
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 68.60.139.186
Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2005 - 10:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Will Both Races Ceasefire On The Internet In 2006?



Never. Not on this forum, not in this lifetime or the next. Because people will be people will be people. It's called human nature, it has a very beautiful face and a very ugly face, regardless of race. Prejudism is passed on from generation to generation, from father to son, it's a learned behavior. Only those who think for themselves can reject prejudism and can make a difference by acting simply in what is morally right.

Happy New Year everybody, I wish peace to all of you.

(Message edited by ghetto_butterfly on December 31, 2005)
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 764
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.230.22.99
Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 2:55 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmichigan, perhaps if you express yourself clearly others will understand what you're trying to get across. I suspect you might be hiding behind more than one preconceived notion yourself.

Perhaps you can explain to the forum the sucesses of Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell and other black Americans who are wealthy but not business owners - and have broken thru the glass ceiling you describe. If you need more names, let me know.

(Message edited by Karl on January 01, 2006)
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2910
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 4:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please keep them coming, because if I see someone point to those few one more time I'm going to crack. lol
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 765
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.230.22.99
Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 5:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmichigan, was only trying to lessen your racist comments - essentially saying that black people cannot succeed on their own merits in our society, esp in large corps. GM, Ford, Chrysler - Lmichigan is saying that if you succeed in these corps and are black, you are Uncle Tom, Aunt Jemima or house slave - anything but your own hard work. Condi, Colin, Clarence and others, Lmichigan is laughing out loud at your successes 'cause they don't count.

Since I'm not working for a large Michigan corporation, are there any blacks out there working for same who consider themselves successful - and not ass-kissers - who would be willing to "out" themselves as blacks who have made it in the corporate world - who have, in their own estimation, broken thru the glass ceiling? Lmichigan says you don't exist and that anyone who thinks you do is living under a rock.

And to what do blacks working at the highest levels of govt owe their success to? Govt largesse? Are you saying any idiot walking in the door could have achieved the same success? Mayor? Police Chief? Or is it that they could never succeed except in a predominantly black city?

Lmichigan says you don't exist - or if you do, your numbers are so tiny as to be a fluke. So please, come forward - either identify yourselves, or point out others we might relate to for Lmichigan's satisfaction.
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Al_t_publican
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Username: Al_t_publican

Post Number: 72
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 220.231.76.3
Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 5:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Both races? Well, it did seem that way during my fifty plus years in Detroit. First it was the whiteflighters who thought in two dimensions, and in recent decades the Afrocentrics have carried on such myopia. In broader cultures, like San Diego where I moved to, there is no such thing as "both cultures"; it's more like a cultural stew. With 1.3M people San Diego had something like 50 homicides in the past year.
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Llyn
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Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1346
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.61.197.206
Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 10:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Karl, go back and read LM's original post. It wasn't about politicians and it didn't say there were no wealthy blacks. Nor did it say there weren't any blacks working for major corporations. I'm not trying to pick on you here, but honestly, do you really try to understand other people's posts?
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Romanized
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Username: Romanized

Post Number: 174
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 69.245.75.239
Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 9:16 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lmichigan,

I agree 1000% with your post. I'm living it right now.

And not to say black women don't have it tough, but I also have to do with the Fear Factor. That is people relating to more as the guy they saw on the evening news as opposed to an individual. I see why its no wonder I can count the number of professional black men I know on two hands.

But I'm not whining or anything like that. I will plug away at this till I'm successful because that is what my people before me did.
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Karl
Member
Username: Karl

Post Number: 778
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.230.22.99
Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 12:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Llyn, Lmich made it clear:

Lmich said: "they (white women) (along with minorities) still hit a brick wall when trying to leap from college to the business world. That why the most of the richest Black Americans are entrepreneurs, because they are unable to get through the still decidedly discrimantory business practices of yesteryear that still exist today...... I'm talking when they try to rise through a the ranks of a company/corporation, not customer relations. There is little room for advancement"

I asked Lmich to further explain. Do we now have to be defined as "rich" by rock star standards to be successful in this country?

I believe some of these threads exist to whine, not to exchange meaningful ideas to learn - and change - because the real path to change is either too obvious and has been ignored, or is too painful, even though others have traveled it many times.
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Rasputin
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Username: Rasputin

Post Number: 3395
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.12.116.195
Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 9:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Llyn, not looking for disagreement .... that's in YOUR mind ..... go figure!

But YOU still still tried to make the essence of that short essay your own interpretation! No go, that's the essence of "white supremacy" ..... your actions!! And yes, that makes YOU a "white supremacist!"

Try this on, for you need further instruction:

quote:

One factor seems clear about all of the interlocking oppressions. They take both active forms, which we can see, and embedded forms, which as a member of the dominant groups one is taught not to see. In my class and place, I did not see myself as a racist because I was taught to recognize racism only in individual acts of meanness by members of my group, never in invisible systems conferring unsought racial dominance on my group from birth. [The majority of this Forum]

Disapproving of the system won't be enough to change them. I was taught to think that racism could end if white individuals changed their attitude. But a "white" skin in the United States opens many doors for whites whether or not we approve of the way dominance has been conferred on us. Individual acts can palliate but cannot end, these problems.

To redesign social systems we need first to acknowledge their colossal unseen dimensions. The silences and denials surrounding privilege are the key political surrounding privilege are the key political tool here. They keep the thinking about equality or equity incomplete, protecting unearned advantage and conferred dominance by making these subject taboo. Most talk by whites about equal opportunity seems to me now to be about equal opportunity to try to get into a position of dominance while denying that systems of dominance exist.


Mayhaps you'll come off that individualist schitt now!! Oh, btw; that was written by a white person!

Black-atcha .....
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 2201
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.202.227.12
Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 9:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know why you all still try to convey any type of logic to KKKarls one dimensional, one track thinkin azz..

I mean for real why give yourselves the headache? All he will see...is just what he wants to see!

If the sky is blue and he looking at it he will still try to convince you it's pink merely cause that's what he wants to see in spite of the contrary.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1489
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 4.229.132.70
Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 10:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am not defending anyone including Karl but Detstylin you are really giving an accurate description of...............yourself.
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Llyn
Member
Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1348
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.61.197.206
Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 10:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ras, I understand and agree with the concept of embedded racism, but I won't be coming off the individualist schitt at all. One step too far to say that skin color decides ones label.
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Kurwo
Member
Username: Kurwo

Post Number: 814
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.100.112.29
Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 10:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As a white person I feel strangely compelled to call Rasputin's source for the quote an Aunt Peggy!

But it does make for good, thought provoking reading...the format's a little screwed up in the link below though.

http://www.thepeacecompany.com /peacelibrary/html/Peacebuildi ng_white_priv.html
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Rasputin
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Username: Rasputin

Post Number: 3397
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.73.192.149
Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 10:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I understand, Llyn. I've met too many of you that think the same way ..... all in what is called DENIAL, in the trade. Kinda hard for you to swallow THE FACT that it's your learned behavior, eh? Individualism? ROFLMAO!! In essence you were collectively trained like they do monkeys in the circus ..... from the Cradle to the Grave!

Black-atcha ..... ringing the bell!
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 1705
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 207.69.137.26
Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 11:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ras, why do you always like to lump people into the "sins of their fathers" category. And then you berate people, as though you somehow have the moral high ground. The message gets lost because the messenger doesn't know how to deliver it without hateful propoganda. A pity. Cuz you're really smart, and a lot of folks here really could learn from you. It's just your delivery sucks!

Why don't you look up AD HOMINEM in the dictionary, and quit being so condescending to others. It's not becoming of a learned person.
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Karl
Member
Username: Karl

Post Number: 807
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.230.22.99
Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 2:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gistok, thanks for the clarification. I looked it up - and learned.

Unfortunately, many today turn from the discussion at hand, often when they've lost the argument yet sometimes don't realize it, and resort to personal attacks. I've been guilty of it, but have become a better debater by resisting the urge to throw the furniture and sticking to the argument.

Ras is smart - and I hope he continues to discuss & argue here. At the same time, it will be obvious if his mind is open or shut, as with us all. These threads tend toward going silent as opposed to anyone conceding that perhaps their mind has been changed - or their viewpoint expanded. Thank you for doing that for me today.
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Karl
Member
Username: Karl

Post Number: 812
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 72.25.177.194
Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 11:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't Give Up
John McWhorter ponders how to resolve black America's crisis.

BY ARCH PUDDINGTON
Thursday, January 5, 2006 12:01 a.m. EST

In the wake of last year's rioting in France--centered in Muslim neighborhoods near Paris--we Americans may feel tempted, understandably, to congratulate ourselves, noting our superior capacity to bring into the mainstream people of different nationalities, cultures and skin colors. But the self-congratulation should go only so far. Yes, various nonwhite immigrant groups continue to find a place in American society and to do well, but there remains, in more than a few instances, a wide gap--in income and cultural identity--between America's white and black citizens. Indeed, the U.S. is the only prosperous democracy to have a large, racially distinct underclass where unemployment, criminality and fatherless families are too often the norm.

Why this is so and what we are to do about it is the principal theme of John McWhorter's splendid "Winning the Race." In particular, Mr. McWhorter examines why the optimism that defined the years of the civil-rights movement has been replaced by defeatism and alienation in the black community--even as America's racial attitudes and policies have changed so dramatically for the better.

Mr. McWhorter's answers are anything but orthodox, and little wonder: He is routinely classified--and, in certain circles, dismissed--as a "black conservative." But his views are not easily labeled. He advocates some drug decriminalization, for instance, and favors affirmative action for those in economic need (but not for middle-class children or the children of immigrants). He didn't even vote for George W. Bush. Still, he argues compellingly that the widely accepted ideas that try to explain the persistence of racial inequality--leftist views, for the most part--stand in the way of black progress.
Like others, Mr. McWhorter blames open-ended welfare and the fashions of the white counterculture--especially its glorification of drug use--for damaging precisely the generation of blacks that should have reaped the benefits of civil-rights change. But he also blames an academic establishment and intellectual elite that seem unwilling to judge the dynamics of black life by the standards that it applies to other groups.

A former professor of linguistics at the University of California, Berkeley (he is now a fellow at the Manhattan Institute), Mr. McWhorter has a keen eye for the foibles of social scientists--that is, for the way they maneuver their methodology to find the big idea (the "golden key") that will explain black poverty. He inspects each big idea in turn--deindustrialization, housing segregation, slum clearance, drug supply, high-rise public housing--and finds it less than compelling. Indeed, he finds that such big ideas only help to induce a sense of impotence that impedes black America's rise from poverty.

Thus he counsels against "the plangent image of young black men 'spatially mismatched' from factories that move away." To accept such an image as an explanation "is to agree that the only humans in history incapable of adapting to changing employment conditions were descendants of African slaves in the United States." Of those who blame ghetto life on the flight of middle-class blacks to the suburbs, he asks: "What other group of poor people besides black Americans has been depicted as going to hell because middle-class ones were not around?" Many scholars, he notes, suggest that "there is something sinister and small about the millions of us who moved away from the ghetto." But their logic suggests, in turn, "a kind of permanent racial balkanization." He is impatient with those who contend that the crack epidemic is responsible for the black community's plight, as if "poor blacks are so vulnerable, so devoid of any human agency, that all one has to do is wave a crack pipe in front of them and about every second one of them will leap at it like a dog grabbing a pork chop."

And then there is hip-hop. Mr. McWhorter is clearly familiar with the whole hip-hop scene and even values some of its music. But he insists that, on the whole, hip-hop, or rap, neither conveys the reality of ghetto life nor points young blacks in the right direction. Meanwhile, intellectual apologists "tie themselves up in knots trying to criticize and yet excuse rap's sexism in the same sentence." The plain fact is that rap is "the most overtly and consistently misogynistic music ever produced in human history."

Clearly Mr. McWhorter is concerned less with public policy than with black America's psychological readiness to join the competitive mainstream. Like welfare, he argues, the outlook of the underclass requires reform. But such reform will not occur as long as a set of corrosive beliefs holds sway advising blacks that the system is rigged against them and encouraging in them "therapeutic alienation"--an exaggerated sense of victimhood. There is consolation in such beliefs, Mr. McWhorter concedes, but they are no way to win the race.

Mr. Puddington is director of research at Freedom House in New York. You can buy "Winning the Race" from the OpinionJournal bookstore.
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Llyn
Member
Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1349
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.61.197.206
Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 1:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"In essence you were collectively trained like they do monkeys in the circus ....."

You just don't know how to be anything but hateful, do you?

Apparently your own experiences have trained you just fine, I see.
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Rasputin
Member
Username: Rasputin

Post Number: 3401
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.73.192.149
Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 1:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gistok: Apparently the message was not lost to you ..... regardless of my, the messenger's, delivery!! So please stop trying to play mind, spin games ..... we're much too smart for that!! and you, of all people, should know that I don't succumb to your bullschitt, elementary "control" type games. My post, My message ..... read it and weep!!

Karl: No thank you for your asinine apology for my post. You're not needed!!

Llyn: Wake up and smell the air ..... mehopes you didn't just fart ..... that would make the air kinda funky!! If you have the ability to recognize the connections in the previous fragments as a FACT, then quit denying your training!! Hateful, my ass!! Real, yes!! Life ain't a bed of roses is it! ROFLMBAO!!

Black-atcha ...... watching wannabe "control" freaks FREEEAAKKKK!!!
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Super_d
Member
Username: Super_d

Post Number: 491
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 69.246.101.64
Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 2:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aaaah yeah! The old, "pick yourself up by the bootstraps" ideology.__ as long as blackness is not an issue, as long as it is suppressed, contained, or controlled__ it's alright.

Forget about the bad effects of whiteness ie; slavery, racism, and the like.

Neutralize white fears by transcending yo' Blackness__ forget about transcending whiteness__ embody the classic 'americana' myth of self-invention and individualism.

The article talks about black attitudes, as if politcal, and economic structures do not exist. As usual, in most conservative cirlces, they highlight the behavioral impediments of prostestant ethicism, work hard, deferred gratification, frugality, and personal responsiblity___ unfortunately it can't model as a replacement for historical and social analysis of the predicaments of all Black people, especially the egregiously disadvantaged Blacks.

super d(motordetroit
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Llyn
Member
Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1350
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.61.197.206
Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 4:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ras, let me ask you this way. If I agree with everything you say, are you saying that I am still automatically racist because I'm white? Is there anything a white person can do to change this, or are all white people automatically racist because of their skin color? Is that just how it is for you?
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Rasputin
Member
Username: Rasputin

Post Number: 3403
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 152.163.100.195
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 1:47 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Llyn, I really didn't and still don't give a "flying fukk" whether you agree or disagree ..... in fact, I wouldn't even give a fukk whether you read the schitt or not!! Go figure .....

The schitt was written by one of you white folk, not me! Read it and weep!!

Black-atcha ..... saying, "the sins of the fathers are a MoFo when they drop down on their children" ..... a paraphrase of an old (European) writing from one of those Jewish history books called a Bible!! Go figure ....
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Southwestmap
Member
Username: Southwestmap

Post Number: 337
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 64.79.90.206
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 12:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is Ras referring to the author of the book that was reviewed? If so, he is incorrect. McWhorter is Black.
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Llyn
Member
Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1351
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.61.197.206
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 12:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ras,

This is not the first time I've asked you this question. You always dodge it. I'd like it if you could give me a straight answer on this for once.
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Karl
Member
Username: Karl

Post Number: 845
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 72.25.177.194
Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 10:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another item from today's "Best of the Web Today":

Here's a fascinating story originally from England's Daily Mail:

A black police bodyguard who protected the Duchess of Cornwall has won $70,000 [Australian, or around US$53,000] compensation after suing Scotland Yard for "over-promoting" him because of political correctness.

Sgt Leslie Turner--the first black personal protection officer to guard the royal family--will receive the "racial discrimination" payout after reaching an out-of-court settlement with London's Metropolitan Police.

His representatives argued he landed the prestigious job as Camilla's bodyguard only because he was black.

It was claimed that as a result of being over-promoted and not receiving proper training and support, Sgt Turner made mistakes which led to him being re-assigned.

This suggests a tantalizing line of legal attack for opponents of "affirmative action" in American higher education. The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that, at least for the next 22 1/2 years, "diversity" is a "compelling" enough reason to justify discriminating at the margins against people of pallor. But what if a black student were to sue, claiming he had been admitted to, say, Harvard and done badly there because he was not held to the same high standard as other students?

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