Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning January 2006 » Lansdowne sinks in Lake Erie « Previous Next »
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Itsjeff
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Username: Itsjeff

Post Number: 5269
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.42.168.211
Posted on Monday, December 26, 2005 - 7:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The ship once known in Detroit as the Lansdowne Restaurant, which offered floating dining from its location off of Hart Plaza in the 1980s, has sunk at its docking place in Erie, Pa.

Salvage crews were preparing today to raise the boat from the bottom of Presque Isle Bay. The 319-foot-long, 60-foot-wide boat was submerged past its main deck with only its upper structures protruding from the Lake Erie bay’s icy waters.

During its years of business on the Detroit River from 1983-91, the Lansdowne offered diners a unique restaurant option. The ship, built in 1884, featured two vintage railroad cars for cocktails and fine dining, a nod to its history of ferrying freight cars across the river.

The cause of the sinking was unknown.
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1001
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Monday, December 26, 2005 - 9:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is sad to hear. I remember when the Lansdowne was tied up in Detroit by Cobo Arena. We had many Dossin Museum annual dinners on the vessel, and the Company from California that owned her also owned the Queen Mary in Long Beach CA, and spent a ton of money outfitting her for a restaurant.
They had nice dinners, a great Sunday brunch, and it was so convenient to walk from the Guardian Buidling down to tthe Lansdowne and have a nice lunch and be back in an hour.
I was sad when she left Detroit, and I don't know if she ever reopened again as a floating restaurant in Erie. Probably the end of ( yet another) era.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 9650
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.246.37.236
Posted on Monday, December 26, 2005 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

The cause of the sinking was unknown.




Just a guess, but I think it probably took on water, thus causing it to sink. A second, though unlikely scenario, is somebody overloaded the ship with cargo.
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The_nerd
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Username: The_nerd

Post Number: 287
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 69.246.18.50
Posted on Monday, December 26, 2005 - 10:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^ Are you saying that ships must take on water to sink? Wow, what an epiphany!

(Message edited by The Nerd on December 26, 2005)
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Douglasm
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Username: Douglasm

Post Number: 450
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.189.188.28
Posted on Monday, December 26, 2005 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Two questions.....
....is there a link available to a story on the sinking,
and
what is the status of the two (at least) ex-Milwaukee Road observation cars that were on deck?

I used to ride the Grand Trunk Western's Shoppers Special down to Brush Street, the depot being seperated from the ferry slip by only the flour mill tracks. I'd watch the Lansdowne and it's running mate, the Huron go back and forth.
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Itsjeff
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Username: Itsjeff

Post Number: 5274
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.42.168.211
Posted on Monday, December 26, 2005 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Apologies for not including the link:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20051226/NEW S11/51226009
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Douglasm
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Username: Douglasm

Post Number: 451
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.189.188.28
Posted on Monday, December 26, 2005 - 11:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Itsjeff.
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Douglasm
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Username: Douglasm

Post Number: 453
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.189.188.28
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 12:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For those interested, there is a picture of the Lansdowne with ex-Milwaukee Road Skydomes "Gold Creek" and "Arrow Creek" at www.trainweb.org/hiawatha/Skyt opsferry4.jpg
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 610
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.2.148.197
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 12:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lansdowne

LANSDOWNE
Hull: Built by Detroit Dry Dock Co. at Wyandotte,Mich. in 1884. Iron hull of 1570 GT.
Superstructure: built by Jenking Bros.
Engines: From MICHIGAN I
Boilers: Four Scotch 9' x 14' 55 PSI.

Capacity: two tracks, 16 cars.
Last operated in 1974. Laid up in Buffalo N.Y.
Owned by Speciality Restaurants of Anaheim, California.
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Kathleen
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Username: Kathleen

Post Number: 1053
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.14.122.57
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 2:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Recalling when Dave took me to the Lansdowne for Sunday brunch to celebrate one of our early wedding anniversaries about 22 years ago!!!

From the Times Leader (Wilkes Barre, PA):
http://www.timesleader.com/mld /timesleader/13490989.htm
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Old_southwest
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Username: Old_southwest

Post Number: 92
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 63.239.215.30
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 11:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a photo of it sunk:

Landsdown, sunk at her dock

Not much left of it, just a shell.
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Busterwmu
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Username: Busterwmu

Post Number: 182
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 67.102.76.132
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 12:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why the heck hasn't anyone gotten ahold of those former Milwaukee Road Hiawatha observation cars and taken them off the boat so they could be fixed up to be used on rails which won't sink?
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Bertz
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Username: Bertz

Post Number: 483
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.61.15.89
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the Lansdowne the oldest surviving
car ferry in the world?
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Aarne_frobom
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Username: Aarne_frobom

Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 162.108.2.221
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 5:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Milwaukee Road Skytop observation cars are economically unsalvageable, with half or more of one side of each cut away to give access from the former restaurant rooms. Since opposite sides of each car are cut off, I suppose someone who REALLY wanted a Skytop could buy both, along with a ton of welding rod, and make a whole one, but that's not likely to be worth it. Revised running gear and Milwaukee Road wood interior would be needed, too. I believe there are two of these cars surviving in excursion service out of Minnesota, and maybe one or two more salveageable cars laying around waiting to be restored.

For those unfamiliar with these cars, they were designed in 1948 by Wisconsin industrial designer Brooks Stevens.
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Kathleen
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Username: Kathleen

Post Number: 1054
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.14.122.57
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

More Freep coverage...
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20051227/NEW S01/512270354/1003/NEWS
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Toolbox
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Username: Toolbox

Post Number: 805
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 65.196.220.198
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 5:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a good shot of the observation car in use, in Union Station and an interior view.
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Douglasm
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Username: Douglasm

Post Number: 454
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.189.188.28
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

#15, Coffee Creek is currently being restored. #17 Marble Creek is listed as scrapped. #18, Spanish Creek was scrapped in 1978. #186, Ceder Rapids is owned by the Friends Of The 261 and is excursion service. #187, Coon Rapids is in storage in Escanaba, MI in bad shape. #188 Dell Rapids is at the Daytona Beach (Fla.) Museum of Arts and Sciences. #189, Priest Rapids was burned by Milwaukee Road shop staff in 1970.

Thus, only one of the Skytops is currently in running condition, one is being restored, one is on display, one is in bad shape, 3 were scrapped, and two are sitting in Lake Erie.

Thank you www.trainweb.org/hiawatha
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Busterwmu
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Username: Busterwmu

Post Number: 183
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 67.102.76.132
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 7:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for that info Douglas. They really were unique cars, and their styling is very cool in my opinion. Now if only I had a welding gun... and I knew how to weld... and two half skytops were not sitting in lake Erie.... They truly were a Milwaukee Road signature.

PS maybe this isn't the place to ask it, but were the cars in the teen series (Creeks) different in interior or eterior setup from the 180-series (Rapids) cars in some way, or were they just a later order for more of the same?
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Douglasm
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Username: Douglasm

Post Number: 456
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.189.188.28
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 8:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

According to the above mentioned link, the "Creek" series were all sleeper/lounge cars built by Pullman/Standard, the "Rapids" series were all parlor/lounge cars built by the Milwaukee Road, all in 1948. Better looking than the bevertails, I think.

Someone asked about the Lansdowne. When she ran with her partner, Huron, she was the second oldest commercial boat on the lakes. The Huron was the oldest.

Anyone have a picture of the Scotia II, which was brought to the river in 1969 to be the first boat, replacing the Huron and turning the Lansdowne into a backup? According to the March, 1969 issue of the Toronto Marine Historical Society bulletin "The Scanner", the boat was hand fired (upsetting the air pollution folks), of 1915 vintage, too wide for the Detroit slip and too high for the Windsor apron.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 615
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.2.149.6
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 11:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Lansdowne working through heavy ice on the Detroit River in 1905.

Lansdowne 1905
LOC/DPC
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Mjb3
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Username: Mjb3

Post Number: 85
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 24.145.222.252
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 1:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember when it was the Baja Beach club for awhile back around 1988. The waitstaff all wore hultertops!! They even had a crane for bungee jumping outside.

They had 3 different bars on the boat: one for karaoke, one comedy and one for bands and dancing. May she rest in peace. I'll just have to savor my memories of the bikini clad barmaids.... oh oh cold shower time for me..
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Busterwmu
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Username: Busterwmu

Post Number: 184
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 67.102.76.132
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 1:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Note the heavyweight passenger cars on the car-deck. This was still four years before the Michigan Central Detroit River tunnel would be built, so through passenger service was provided by ferry. If you were in a Pullman, you just stayed in your berth through the whole process, but I bet by the end of your journey it was a bit chilly with no heat while on the ferry!

Great photo!
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 718
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 2:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wonder if they had connections to the boiler for the cars while on the ferry, I could see it taking a couple of hours if things got tied up.
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Bertz
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Username: Bertz

Post Number: 486
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.61.15.89
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 4:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the Lansdowne the oldest surviving
car ferry in the world?


bump
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Douglasm
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Username: Douglasm

Post Number: 458
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.189.188.28
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

May be right, Bertz. I do know it was the second oldest commercial boat on the lakes, and became the oldest when the Huron was retired.
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Aarne_frobom
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Username: Aarne_frobom

Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 162.108.2.221
Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 12:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Over at the "Interchange" bulletin board on Railway Preservation News www.rypn.org preservation consultant Randy Gustafson of Stone Consulting says that the Lansdowne may be sunk in Lake Erie as an artificial fish habitat. This could be our last look at a remnant of Detroit River history without scuba gear.
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Damon
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Username: Damon

Post Number: 630
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 172.156.198.95
Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 4:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sad. :-(
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Bertz
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Username: Bertz

Post Number: 488
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.61.15.89
Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I contacted the Smithsonian and I hope they can help.

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