Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Detroit keeping its bars open to 4:00 a.m.? Previous Next
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Fec
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Username: Fec

Post Number: 57
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 4.165.123.74
Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 5:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How do you feel about House Bill 5190; whereas, State Rep Bill McConico wants to extend bar hours to 4:00 a.m.? I have a serious problem with that.

Detroit has some serious problems without adding to them. Providing the availablity and opportunity to extend 'drinking hours' will only further destroy this 'bounce back' city, further strain its resources and manpower, and truly diminish its intellect and characteristics.

We surely do not need that carrying on at this time in Detroit's existence. This is a laid back city and not a New York. It is not financial, mentally, physically, security, or spiritually ready to become that type of city.

One HUGE concern is that we have fewer police officers that can patrol the city in the wee hours of night. Give a few patrol men a break, and some degree of consideration. Allow their alertness to be sharp enough to deal with more existing enforcement activities during reasonable hours, not for hours to be spend dealing with new late-early issues each and every morning.

Some may say I'm stretching this issue, but there definitely is a propensity to have problems that we never had to deal with before. I see more high speed chases, automobile accidents, all types of assaults, domestic issues, more street walkers, further delays in response times, and THIS list has the propensity to go on and on and on and on . . .

We have to allow the few law enforcers to concentrate on other issues dealing with the safety of citizens and visitors. Preserve their time for those issues that we have always had to deal with. . . God knows we don't need any new problems!

We MUST become more dedicated, considerate and sophisticated in dealing with the well-being of this city and its citizens. Write, visit or call State Rep Bill McConico to let him know this is the last thing we need in a cash and employee-strapped city:

E-mail Address:
repbillmcconico@house.mi.gov

Lansing Office Mailing Address:
S0589 House Office Building
P.O. Box 30014
Lansing, MI 48909-7514

Fax: 517-373-8929
Phone: 517-373-0144

I pray that this idea is not just for the Super Bowl that will be here and gone by the time you bat your eyes. Whimsical and short-term thinking is not the way to go for this city at this time. Now, if this legislator can come up with some viable job opportunities, he's got my vote!
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 1388
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 69.212.58.13
Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 7:17 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fec, the positive-side to having the bars stay open to 4:00 a.m is that you will have less illegal activity going on at after-hour joints. The after-hour joints serve as a black market for party-goers to continue their partying and for party-goers to drink alcohol after the 2:00 a.m. curfew. Keeping bars open 'til 4:00 a.m. will discourage this illegal activity. From what I have experienced, most party-goers are willing to go home or go get breakfast at 4:00 a.m., not go to an after-hours joint at that time of morning.

When my buddies and I used to visit Chicago, we would stay at the bars/night clubs 'till closing, which was sometimes 'till 5:00 a.m. Upon leaving these places, our thoughts were either go back to the hotel to sleep or hang out longer by getting something to eat. No need to go to an after-hours joint because we had gotten all of our partying out of our systems since the bars/night clubs stayed open so late.

Fec, I have never heard anyone complain about Chicago's late bar closings. I have never heard of any chaos that results from it. I'm sure there are incidents of disorderly or drunken conduct. However, I don't think it's any worse than the conduct of the drunken and disorderly here in Detroit at 2:00 a.m.

Fec, in response to another of your concerns, cops have to cover the streets at 4:00 a.m. whether the bars are open or not. If they close at 2:00 a.m., then the cops have to worry about what's going on at all of the illegal after-hours joints. If the bars stay open 'til 4:00 a.m., then the cops don't have to worry about these places, which are usually held in secret locations. If the cops know that problems occur at the closing of one particular and known bar or club, they then can focus their manpower on that place. Also, because bars/clubs check I.D, they help regulate the behavior of underage individuals. However, in many after-hours joints there are many underage patrons because they don't get carded.

Fec, leaving the bars open 'till 4:00 a.m. won't be the disaster for Detroit that you think it will be. On the contrary, it will make Detroit and other cities in Michigan more attractive to tourists and party-goers, generating millions of additional revenue from alcohol sales and more. Also, the young twenty-somethings will have more of a reason to stay in Michigan on the weekends and spend money than to run off to Chicago or Canada to have a good time. Some of us thirty and forty-somethings won't mind keeping the bars and clubs open late as well. I think the benefits to keeping the bars/clubs open 'til 4:00 a.m. outweigh the detriments.
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 169
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.134
Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 3:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As many of you probably know, bars in Las Vegas are open 24/7. I haven't seen more of a problem here with DUIs than I used to see back in Detroit. Yeah, we've had some fatals where booze was involved, but so has Michigan. That terrible one in Farmington Hills comes to mind.

But I think the matter of 4 a.m. bar closings "back home" should be put to a vote. It's what the citizens of an area want that counts.
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Naturalsister
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Username: Naturalsister

Post Number: 422
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.169.65
Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 3:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ray1936,

I agree. I also agree with the earlier post that the benefits out-weigh the detriments.

I'd vote to pass it.

later - naturalsister
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Gravitymachine
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Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 717
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 68.255.242.100
Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 4:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

buffalo has a 4 am closing time. lemme tell ya, its hard on us 9-5 types, the bars don't get jumpin' until almost 2am! :D

seriously though, i DO think its a stretch to think later legal serving time will be much of a help to this city.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 5315
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 69.220.233.99
Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 4:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We spin it into a benefit for the businesses downtown...make it a draw, but with proper 'handling' of the potential problem drinkers (shuttles and ride services)...and we've got a reason for more people to come downtown.

Don't see any problem with this...if we're headed towards being 'world class' then we need to be closer to 24/7 operation with all service businesses.

I see no reason to limit the time people can drink publically.
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Mike
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Username: Mike

Post Number: 551
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.41.109.36
Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 4:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

they still have to stop selling alcohol at 2, they can just stay open till 4.
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Drm
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Username: Drm

Post Number: 765
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.248.54.181
Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 4:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OTHER VOICES: Bars serving till 4 a.m. isn't as cool as it may seem
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 170
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.134
Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 5:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Bars are open in Las Vegas 24/7".

Minor correction, I was being somewhat provincial...make that, "Bars are open in NEVADA 24/7."
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Alexei289
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Username: Alexei289

Post Number: 944
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.61.183.223
Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 7:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

... I dont see why this is a problem...

Wouldnt this attract more residents from the suburbs to spend money at Detroit bars? What the hell is wrong with that? Not to mention that it will make the Detroit casinos more attractive than Windsor since windsors last call is 2.

The Detroit Casinos do an excellent job of re-patriating suburban dollars back into the city, in terms of taxes, jobs, and corporate profits (although there are better ways, for now these will do).
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Ohudson
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Username: Ohudson

Post Number: 106
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 69.218.152.196
Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 8:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is a good idea. I usually left the Detroit clubs at 2AM and crossed the border to continue clubbin' in Windsor til 5.

Still, I cannot imagine being in one club from 10 - 4, but I do like to club hop so this could only help me visit more places before I call it a night. This give competition to Windsor for after hours dollars.
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Rakkus
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Username: Rakkus

Post Number: 15
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 64.12.116.195
Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 1:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Being an owner of a downtown bar, I have to voice my two cents here. The bill being proposed is primarily for the casinos. They want to serve alcohol till' 4AM. They can't be the only ones who benifit from this so bars will be able to come along for the ride.

I believe proposed bill 5190' is for cities with over three quarters of a million people and I think their's only one of those in Michigan isn't there? At any rate unless I'm misinformed there are other restrictions like food/liqour ratio, etc.

Now my thoughts are these. . .I don't want to be open till' 4 EVERY night but it would be nice to have the choice for special events. The bar traffic downtown doesn't warrant staying open past midnight sometimes mush less 4AM. I was open last night for the New Years Eve party and everyone was gone around 3.

However, if we all want to drag Detroit into being a "world class" city then you have to change some of the rules. Not everyone goes to bed at 2.

There are a few bars downtown that cater to the after 2 crowd. The Boardroom was recently purchased by the guys who own Club Envy and they stay open for food late night up to five. If you serve 60/40 food/liquor, you can do that. You are supposed to remove or cover up all the liquor.

I know of another pup downtown that serves illegally but even then it's a small hardcore crowd and, ofcourse the price of beer goes up.

New York, Chicago and Cleavland all have extended drinking laws. Are we ever going to be a New York or Chicago? It's like the Lions being in the Super Bowl. . .not in my lifetime but there are alot of things we can do to move in that direction and make Detroit a little jewel to visit here in the midwest. . . think beyond traditional views.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2918
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 1:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Really, I don't see how the negative consequences will outweigh the positives on this. I say pass it, and this is coming from someone that's not much a fan of bars.
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Alexei289
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Username: Alexei289

Post Number: 947
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.61.183.223
Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 2:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

... to the naysayers... remember that prohibition means only to those that respect the law.... which we all know isnt many. and many times the law hasnt justly earned our respect. (my 2 cents).

If there is a demand, there will be a supply... regardless of circumstances, absolutely.

might as well get rid of the problems and make it legal... do it right.
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Gambling_man
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Username: Gambling_man

Post Number: 614
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 199.178.193.5
Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 4:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rakkus, while I think having bars open later would be a huge help to bars/restaraunts downtown, the casinos haven't asked for this law. I have met with Bill before, and he is definitely one of the smarter (and younger) guys in Lansing.......e-mail him with your support......
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Adamjab19
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Username: Adamjab19

Post Number: 597
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.47.170.119
Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 7:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have stated my opinion about this topic on another thread. I don't agree with the law. It seems useless. Especially if the bar can only stay open until 4am while not serving liquor after 2am.

Also, I don't feel that the illegal afterhours parties will stop. While they are mostly illegal now because they are open after 2am they are also illegal becuase of the illegal activity that occurs there(drugs etc.). People seem to feel comfortable with doing drugs and drinkinbg late into the night at these places because they go there instead of to a private residence. I don't get it. If I did drugs I think I would rather set up a couple of CD's at home and have a bunch of people over. So they'll keep going to these hole in the wall after hours because of the activity regardless if the casinos or Bleu will stay open late.
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 1391
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 70.236.173.166
Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 7:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is a useless law if the bars can't serve drinks 'till four. Isn't the reason they don't stay open to three or four now is because they can't serve alcohol after two? You mean to tell me the current law says that bars must also close at two? If they can't serve liquor to four, then why is McConico bothering with this bill?
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Treez4brkfst
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Username: Treez4brkfst

Post Number: 85
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.248.73.37
Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 8:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Perhaps to allow the opportunity to serve food, maybe? Just a thought. After a nite of partying isnt just about anyone looking to get something to eat.
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Detroits_own
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Username: Detroits_own

Post Number: 37
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 67.37.84.68
Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 8:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051217/METRO/512170371
I thought a law had just passed allowing bars to remain open past 2, I thought this was something different which would allow alcohol to be served past 2, is it not?

(Message edited by detroits_own on January 02, 2006)
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2925
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 8:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe, just maybe, it's a transition law to get people friendly with the idea of eventually serving alcohol after two. Maybe, they don't want to push to hard because they know any more direct law would fail, but want to ween the public onto the idea and create a base for a future push. This is politics after all.
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Tomoh
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Username: Tomoh

Post Number: 50
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.40.189.92
Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 12:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Prohibition causes problems. Let the bars serve until 4 a.m. if they feel that's what they want to do. All after hours clubs may not close but you know less people will go to them and many will close. Not even all bars will stay open until 4. It will send the message to the young creative folks in the region that Detroit is becoming a more hip (if they think Chicago is hip) city and be convinced to stick around and take part in the city's rebirth (don't downplay the size and potential influence of this group of people either). It will allow restaurants and bars to have a better chance of surviving in the city by being able to make their own decisions on how late to stay open.

Let's stop being a provincial Midwestern town.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6349
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.2.149.39
Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 12:40 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DRM - Did you notice that the opinion against it is by a co-owner of a bar in Ferndale. I wonder if he thinks this is a bad idea or is concerned that his business may loose some customers.

I specifically liked this cheap shot:


quote:

are not going to pay $30 for a nonexistent cab from downtown to Royal Oak and rarely live within a reasonable walk of the place where they are drinking.




Didn't realize that the whole region lived in Royal Oak and he is obviously not speaking on behalf of those of us that are within walking distance.

As for the cabs - save numbers for a few cab companies in your cell phone. Outside of 2-3 nights a year I get great response from cabs in Detroit.

Is he concerned about the real logistics or his business.
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Motorcitymayor2026
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Username: Motorcitymayor2026

Post Number: 332
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 71.10.63.140
Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 12:50 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Duh! his business

would a cab ride even be $30 from dowtown to RO??
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Drm
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Username: Drm

Post Number: 770
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.251.225.69
Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 1:42 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, it would be at least $30.
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Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 175
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.134
Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 2:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

But a good idea; cheaper than a DUI rap.
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Jerome81
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Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 874
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 64.142.86.133
Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 2:36 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hate having to leave San Fran bars, which all close at 2am. Chicago rocks. Saturday till 5am has definitely been a mark i've hit a couple times. Mostly 2-3am is all I can take though.

However, if you can't serve after 2am anyway, whats the point? I'm not gonna hang around if I can't drink. I'd go home anyway.

The mass transit is a good point. However, I know most (all?) the EL trains in Chicago stop running between 12-2am. The busses might keep running, but I bet they are few and spaced apart. Most of the time we take a cab or walk. Last I checked Detroit you could take cabs and walk too. So I think its okay.

Go for the 4am! More of a draw. I know I'd stay away from the burbs if I could party longer in the city, and at the least I'd leave the burbs at 2 and come into the city for another couple hours. More cab business. More restaurant business. More people spending money in the city sounds good to me.

But eventually, they have to serve till 3:30-4am.
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Frank_c
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Username: Frank_c

Post Number: 390
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 152.163.100.195
Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 2:41 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The problem with problem drinkers is that when they are practicing problem drinking, the problem is gone.......one more for the road!
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Crash_nyc
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Username: Crash_nyc

Post Number: 491
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 24.193.162.237
Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 5:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When I worked at bars in Rivertown, I remember some of them having to hire extra bouncers just to come in just before "LAST CALL!!!" at 1:45AM, to help clear everyone out of the place. Just like in many US cities, the weekend bar crowd tends to flood-in between 10 & midnight, and the bars are most packed right up until 2:AM. People tend to binge-drink when they know that they have such little time (don't want to walk out of a bar on a Saturday night without a good buzz!). So you have people being forced to cut their bar nights short, and getting into their cars at 2:AM after having slammed-down god knows how many drinks, with no time to sober-up.
This also sparks a lot of after-hours joints. Some are fun, many are dangerous, and all are illegal.

After I moved to NYC (where the bars stay open until 4:AM), I had a completely different bar experience. You can get to the bar at 11:PM, drink more casually (even less), quit drinking around maybe 2:30 or 3:AM, and still have an hour or so to continue to socialize with your friends, wind-down your night, and sober-up a bit. When 4:AM rolls around, there's not a mob of people to clear out -- maybe 1/4 of the crowd that was there at 2:AM.

A 4:AM law would definitely cut down on the number of after-hours joints around the city. They certainly exist in cities that serve until 4:AM, but tend to be more drug-oriented. I saw a lot of mainstream drinkers going to illegal after-hours joints in Detroit, just so they can enjoy another couple of drinks (and perhaps dabble a little). If you're going to after-hours after 4:AM, you're pretty much just going there for the drugs.

The UK recently changed their long-standing law requiring bars to close at 11:PM. Their main reason for doing this: binge drinking. The new law sets no absolute closing hour. Instead, bars can now purchase varying levels of licenses, allowing them to stay open as late as they want, at their individual discression. A bar can buy a cheap license that requires them to close at 11:PM or midnight, or a very expensive 24-hr license (and every hour in between). A few are going full-force with the 24-hr licenses (generally in popular bar areas, Central London, etc), but most are just going for licenses to stay open until midnight or 1. Bar owners figure that their regular patrons generally need only about an hour or two more than they're used to, to have a good time, chill-out a bit, and go.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11 /24/AR2005112401075.html
"Proponents argue that Britain faces no more danger of increased alcohol-related crime and injury than any other nation where people drink after 11 p.m. They argue that relaxing opening hours will eliminate one cause of binge drinking: the phenomenon of people rushing the bar at last call and ordering an armful of drinks to guzzle in 15 or 20 minutes.
"People drink against the clock," Hastings said. "Now we won't feel like we've always got someone in the background with a stopwatch."
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Spitty
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Username: Spitty

Post Number: 410
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 136.2.1.101
Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 5:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This has really blown up in Fec's face. Talk about your all time backfires.

I agree with Crash. Nothing like trying to get a girl's number and getting shoved out the door by a UFC reject at 1:46 sharp (since the bars set their clocks ahead to fool the drunks). The lights come on right after "Pour Some Sugar on Me" adn all of the surprised drunks are herded onto the sidewalk where they can harass the girls that they didn't get a chance to talk to inside, or start a fight with someone else.
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_sj_
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Username: _sj_

Post Number: 1165
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 69.220.230.150
Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 6:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

You mean to tell me the current law says that bars must also close at two?




Actually yes it does, the only way to stay open was mentioned, having a kitchen and an after hours permit.


quote:

DRM - Did you notice that the opinion against it is by a co-owner of a bar in Ferndale. I wonder if he thinks this is a bad idea or is concerned that his business may loose some customers.




Remember that guy is also a lawyer so not only does he get on the front end(Drinking) he will defend you on the backend(DUI). Talk about a racket there.

Adding four more hours to 12/24 and opening on 12/25 will not have more of an impact that adding two more hours to normal 7am-4am legal drinking time.

You are fooling yourself ig you think this will cut down on the after hour clubs. It will have nto effect, those people are going for the drugs and the sex not the drinking.

(Message edited by _sj_ on January 04, 2006)
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Morena
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Username: Morena

Post Number: 393
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 216.45.2.138
Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 6:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let's see. Casinos racking in huge profits in America's poorest and most crime ridden big city, that's an est. $300 million in the rears, with a severe police shortage problem and layoffs on the horizon, now wants to allow patrons to drink their troubles away till 4 AM ...

God Bless America
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Mcnamara
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Username: Mcnamara

Post Number: 20
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 204.22.230.98
Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 7:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

right on Spitty!
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Gambling_man
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Username: Gambling_man

Post Number: 622
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 199.178.193.5
Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 7:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I talked to a lobbyist in Lansing, he says the impetus for the bill was for the BOB in Grand Rapids.....as the state's largest bar, they were having their own after-hours parties, and they were constantly applying for the permit (on a daily basis).......There you have it.....
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Observant2art
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Username: Observant2art

Post Number: 177
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 209.104.139.161
Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 2:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

FEC, I couldnt agree with you more,
this was a quote that I made on the STATE REPRESENTATIVE FORUM:


quote:

Funny how this guy was always in the casino gambling when I was employed at MGM GRAND.




www.sbxl.org/hostcommittee/Bil lMcConico.asp

He's only doing this so he can hang out more at the bars past 2AM. Since the casino is 24 hours he's getting board and wants to go to other places. But this bill has to pass in order for him to be able to hang out and spend more money drinking and gambling. There is nothing wrong with doing such things but put a limit to it so there wont be any regrets in the future.

(Message edited by observant2art on January 05, 2006)

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