  Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 5298 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
First Independence National Bank, atached to the 1001 Woodward building, has begun a facade update. I noticed on the way to work this morning that the job is being picketed by the window glaziers union. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 7994 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.71.65.66 |
Because unions aren't doing it? Tough shit! What a joke! No wonder cities like Detroit and Windsor are looked at as jokes. "I belong to a union therefore everyone must bow down before me." These unions are getting a little too big for their britches it seems. I guess what goes around comes around and "it" is coming around. | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 382 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 172.171.2.123 |
Goat, do you know anything at all about the underlying details of the picket? I am by no means a union apologist, but your post is a lousy one if what you intend to do is criticize all picket lines. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 321 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.10.63.140 |
hmm...what are they changing on the facade?? | ||
Genesyxx Member Username: Genesyxx Post Number: 375 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 209.69.165.10 |
There's a window glazers union? | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 7995 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.71.65.66 |
Swingline, I am sure Itsjeff could enlighten us on that. I assumed (and yes, I know the old adage to that word)since it was facade work it would include windows and therefore the work may be done by non-union workers; Hence, the picket line. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1258 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 208.54.15.129 |
Actually, the building trade unions do occasionally pick a target to protest the hiring of non-union workers. One union picketed outside the Iodent Building when that work started about two years ago. It does seem a bit ridiculous but I suppose it's a good way to raise some kind of visibility. I'm just not sure it's the kind of visibility they actually want. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 441 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.61.98.175 |
1001 Woodward is probably being picketed because of the employees who were summarily fired a few months ago. The building decided it was paying maintenance employees too much, fired the workers and are being picketed by SEIU Local 3 as a result. I hope they shut that building down. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6334 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Forcing them to use over priced union labor would take care of that on its own. Why have viable business and buildings when we can shut them down due to over priced services. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1429 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.164.127 |
The owners have allot of nerve trying to take a building that has been losing money for years and attempt to make it profitable. What is the world coming too? | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1259 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 208.54.15.129 |
Here we go again! | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6335 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Good point - I guess we could all refer to the previous union/anti-union debate as we probably all made our thoughts known. Does anyone remember the topic? | ||
Hardhat Member Username: Hardhat Post Number: 74 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.144.95.97 |
"Windows Glaziers Union" = Glaziers and Glassworkers Local 357. God forbid "overpriced union labor" should try to (lawfully) do what they can to maintain their trade's wage and benefit level. Especially here in Detroit, one of the last strongholds of organized labor. I get annoyed at people who criticize others as being "overpriced." Says who? Maybe you're overpriced, Jt1. If you are, good for you for earning a good living. So, why not a pat on the back to the guys on the picket line, trying to maintain their standard of living? You try moving around a 2,000 lb. section of glass, or connecting iron 10 stories high, or working with high voltage. The danger in construction is such that workers are going to fight for every penney they earn, and they're also going to fight those who would lower the area's wage and benefit package. Whether it's construction, the auto workers, or the food and commercial workers, organized labor fights to raise their own members' living standards, true, but in doing so they set the standards for nonunion workers' wages, too. If we keep up this insistence that American labor is overpriced, everybody is going to be competing with 40 cents an hour Chinese workers. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 5302 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
Okay, to make clear, 1001 Woodward is NOT being picketed. The pickets are striking the First Independence Bank office that happens to be attached to 1001 Woodwawrd. That is the building having the work done on its facade. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6337 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Hardhat - What is your take on UAW pay. Do you think that there is a time when labor prices are set by unions and not ability or productivity? I do not have an issue with them picketing as that is a viable way to express their concerns. I do however have an issue with the level of union proectionism and the fact that, in many cases feasible projects become unfeasible(?) when the cost of labor is inflated to a certain point. What do you believe is a fair wage /hr. for Local 357 workers? This isn't necesarily an indictment of all unions but the city of Detroit's union requirements make many projects too expensive to consider. But I guess we can all just let the city continue to slide as long as the union jobs demand a specific wage. JT1 - No raise in 2 years. I understand and accept it due to the financial constraints of my company. There are real economic factors to consider and there is a reason that union heavy states see so little investment. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1430 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.164.127 |
I believe people should work to earn as much money as they can, but when you price yourself out of the market and somebody is willing to do it cheaper then you have some tuff choices to make don't work or except whet they are willing to pay but please stop crying foul. Just because you believe you should make more money doesn't necessarily make it true. I think it would be very hard to find people that think they are not under paid. The market will truly be the indicator of what you should get paid. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 445 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.61.98.175 |
Once again, Merchantgander, I genuinely hope you are cared for in your old age by someone who is being paid what their employers think they should be paid. Or "what the market will bear". | ||
Hardhat Member Username: Hardhat Post Number: 75 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.144.95.97 |
At this time in history, the worldwide marketplace is dragging down U.S. wages. That is, for everyone except the corporate elite. Their wages don't seem to be subject to any marketplace forces. Low-wage pressures are being applied to the building trades (via cheap Southern and immigrant labor), the UAW, steelworkers and other unions. The question we need to ask ourselves - is this a good thing? As these jobs pay less and less, all U.S. merchants are going to have customers with less disposable income. People are going to go without health insurance. People are going to have to work longer, making it more difficult for young workers to find jobs. Why shouldn't all Americans cry foul when this country won't impose tariffs on goods that are being produced abroad by companies that are paying their workers slave wages and are being subsidized by their government? Yes, maybe all union workers in this country are earning too much. (And please remember, these wages are collectively bargained - unions don't "set" wages). But when does the bleeding stop? When is enough enough? The worldwide marketplace is now the overwhelming determining factor for wage scales - but our employers are chasing after wage scales abroad that would put American worker into a state of poverty. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6339 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
I agree with much of what you state Hardhat. I think that the unions would see more job creation within union positions if they were willing to accepot the economic reality of the companies/cities that they work for. The all or nothing mentality has hurt the unions because companies are now pushing more for the nothing. I believe that ideally unions serve a good purpose but their refussal to accept economic realities has forced many companies to re-locate positions away from them. A little bending would have gone a long way. If the option is to run at a loss with union help or seek labor elsewhere we know what the companies will do. I agree that US should impose tariffs on imports to make the field more competitive for US labor but I think that the unions inability to be flexible in time of harsh economic realities has done them more harm than good. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 2933 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 192.220.139.24 |
Goat, the socialist utopia you got over in Canada hasn't hit the USA yet. We have to actually struggle for worker's right, health care, and living wages over here. This issue is a little more complicated than looking out your front window at Detroit and saying you understand the USA. Merci, and go back to your good life over there where there are benefits and quality of life. We are still a work in progress shopping at Wal-Marts. jjaba, Westsider. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1260 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 208.54.15.129 |
All I have to say on the topic is that the American people are doing this to themselves. They INSIST on the lowest price, not necessarily the best quality. Look at Wal Mart - the same people who flock to their doors for the best price are the same ones being squeezed out because their employers cannot compete against cheap foreign labor. It's a catch-22 really, but if the workers making the higher wage aren't willing to stop the giant sucking of their own dollars out of the American economy, then who will? | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 726 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.201 |
Dialh4hipster really said it all. Nuff said. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6344 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Yep - Shop local and the money stays local. Shop multinational corporation and the money leaves the area once you swipe your card. | ||
Billybbrew Member Username: Billybbrew Post Number: 107 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 152.163.100.195 |
I always try to keep my business with small, local firms whenever possible, sometimes paying more in the process. I am a union worker, I am also a business owner. Having seen both sides, I think that there needs to be compromise between both sides. At my regular union job, I would be afraid to work there if we didn't have a union, and the union we have is a very weak union. Things are miserable as it is now, it would be twice as bad without the union. A couple of years ago our company (the union job) was facing bankruptcy. We, the employee's, agreed to take a 3 year wage freeze with the agreement that they would reopen negotiations in the 3rd year. The 3rd year came around, the crisis was over, and the company offered us a 1% raise. Meanwhile, everyone knows what the heat costs, gasoline costs, and any normal overhead costs have done. We do NOT get cost of living, 1% was the was it after 3 years with no increase. (We turned down the contract and were able to get a somewhat better offer, but we compromised quite a bit for what we got) Meanwhile, other people in the company were getting $3,000 quarterly profit sharing bonus's. As an employer, I do not have full time employees, only a couple part time, as needed employees, I do not have enough work to justify it. However, our employees are paid higher than the industry standard. We have a "family" atmosphere at our business and it pays to treat your employees well. My rant for the day...and I would like to add that I do NOT shop at Wal-Mart. (Message edited by billybbrew on January 03, 2006) | ||
Pjazz Member Username: Pjazz Post Number: 4 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.212.44.222 |
I totally agree with hard hat. To me its pretty ignornant to bash all unions just because you see a group picketing Outside of a buildng. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 2940 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
I don't know about anyone else, but regardless of whether or not I agree with a protest I LOVE seeing them taking place. It's democracy at its best. On the same token, it's also democracy at its best to speak out against anything you see fit...including protesting. lol But, for me personally, I saw: who cares? Are these picketters hurting you or me? |
