  Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 1973 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.167.59.189 |
Not a Detroit Issue? Think again. As members of our international metropolis our fate is closely and uniquely tied to our neighbor's whether with issues of border crossings, our immense economic and social ties, kiddie bars, prescription drugs and much more. For a large part of our city, the 'southside', the next 50 some days will be in full force of a federal [Presidential equivalent] election. It is a good time to learn about that facet of our great city. So what do you Detroit 'northsiders' know and think about this? If you want to be truly knowledgeable and understand the D, you need to be conversant about this issue too. And what does it mean to the gringos? Think of the Canadian government as run by the House of Representatives. [Scary I know, but actually not that bad.] Which ever party has the majority gets to form the government. When no party has a majority a coalition of parties can form a 'minority' government as was the case with the government that fell today. Anytime the government loses a vote in Parliament, the government falls and new elections must be held promptly. This means around Jan. 23. There are four major parties. Let me describe them in terms of forumers. The Liberals, kind of like the Democrats in the US, left of center, think Frank C, Velma, Lmichigan, the Conservatives, right of center like centrist Republicans, think Track 75, Alt_runner, the NDP [New Democratic Party], solid left, think Barnesfoto and, yeah, me, and the BQ [Bloc Québécois] left of center but chief interest is in separating Quebec from Canada, think Rasputin and Brian. There is no hard right party so Karl, MrJoshua, and CraigD would be left out in the cold but would probably bite their tongues and vote Conservatives even though the party defends national health, abortion and more. Prognosis: look for the the Liberals though tainted by scandal to win a plurality again and form another minority government. The economy is doing well and history is on the side of this tenth Canadian minority government. Minority government's biggest party [Liberals this time] usually to hold power and their major opposition Conservative leader is a dweeb whose ratings are lower than his party's. For some reason there is a bit of controversy over a winter election overlapping Christmas and all sides are trying to blame the others for this perceived inconvenience. Perhaps it tells something about the focus of issues or lack thereof. Get ready here it comes. Previous discussion at Gomery Report to Bring Down Canadian Government? | ||
Broken_main Member Username: Broken_main Post Number: 456 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 198.109.44.2 |
Yes Lowell, this gives me something to think about. I am utterly amazed at how you related this issue to members of our own forum. Very good perception, i must say. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5063 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 209.216.150.127 |
For those interested: http://www.politicalcompass.or g/ Take the test, there are now Country Specific charts that show who you would support if you lived here. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 7819 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.71.67.70 |
Ahh. The Libertarian skewed political compass. I have always said..you are who you want to be. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 1930 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.202.227.12 |
Interesting... lol GOAT | ||
Machoken Member Username: Machoken Post Number: 1032 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 65.86.12.2 |
Nice. When I saw the short blurb 'Canada's Liberal Government Fell' in the WSJ while driving in to work today, I almost choked on my mountain chai. Where would I flee too if another wacko republican is elected leader of the free world in 2008? I hope your prognosis is right Lowell. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 7822 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.71.67.70 |
I wouldn't worry about the wacko right in Canada. They would be considered a little right of centre in the USA. | ||
Machoken Member Username: Machoken Post Number: 1035 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 65.86.12.2 |
Given Lowell's analogy, sometimes even that's a bit hard to deal with. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 1979 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.167.59.189 |
The Conservatives in Canada would be closer to the 'Vovlo' Republicans here -- the party of money and priviledge, pro-business, god-save-the-queeners, mildly militarist [likely would have joined Bush's Iraq folly] but don't let the churches, televangelists, and religious nuts run their social policy. They seem divided on gay marriage and oppose it as federal law but, since the religious nuts don't run their platform, they'll leave that issue on the sidelines. CBC polls last night on who was best for economy and health care was show the public favors the Liberals. On social issues they favor the NDP. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 7824 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.228.66.245 |
Some folks can't get over the recession of 1990-92 and still blame the Conservatives. It just goes to show you that the electorate is full of fools. Two questions that have yet to be answered are...What have the Liberals done since they have been in power? Have you seen an increase in the amount of money you have since the Liberals have been in power? Remember Lowell, the Liberals have far more millionaires and those of title than the Conservatives. As for the NDP and their social policies. Well, it is really easy to be touchy, feely when you throw dump trucks full of moeny at an issue. So, who is going to pay for it? How are you going to distribute the money? Will it actually help healthcare? I think we know the asnwers to these questions...Impossible to do, just pie-in-the-sky promises with no sound fiscal policy. (Message edited by GOAT on November 29, 2005) | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 3521 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.173.12 |
Oh! how those homosexuals in Gaycanada cause the liberal socialist parliament to fall? And when the conservatives take over. It's good-bye free health care and the worker's solidarty. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 1980 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.167.59.189 |
Hmm... If true, then even more bad news for the Conservatives chances. Goat, you still haven't answered my puzzlement from the Gomery thread. "I must say that I am totally mystified as to why you along with our mutual friend support the conservatives. They are the party of privilege and money; I fail to see where their issues meld with yours. I have little doubt that Candadian youth would be dying in Iraq had they been in power in 2002. In fact hearing your views over time, I would think you were both solidly NDP. De-mystify me; I don't get it." Why are you a Conservative? | ||
Historyguy Member Username: Historyguy Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.195 |
The best source for keeping up with the Canadian election is the CBC news at 10:00pm. The regular news segment is "The National," which runs about 30 minutes, and then there's a "magazine" segment that runs another 30 minutes. At 11:00pm, the main news segment is re-run (with an occasional slight change). Watch it for about a week and you'll have a good sense of what's going on (and it doesn't hurt to visit the CBC website cbc.ca). Fortunately, a strike at CBC news ended a few weeks ago, so they're back to full reporting strength. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5067 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.228.192.217 |
Lowell, I am an old school Conservative. They are good for the economy and good for relations with our neighbors to the south  Being a resident of the Border Cities, freindly relations with y'all is good for us... Remember the current incarnation run by Steven Harper is a merger of the two right wing parties, the Progressive Conservatives, and the Reform/Canadian Alliance Party. Kind of like the "Merger of Equals" between Chrysler and Daimler Benz, the new Conservative Party of Canada is more Reform that it is P.C. however with a changing of the leadership (bound to happen if Harper doesn't become PM) hopefully the pendulum will swing back the PC way. Until then I vote NDP. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 7826 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.228.198.173 |
Lowell, From my post on the Gomery Inquest thread: I vote for a party that is fiscally responsible and has a true road map of where Canada should be. Mind you, as of late I have not been happy with their reasoning on moral views but that is something that I truly believe can change within the party by those who work in the party and not by external sources. Those of us that are morally liberal will continue the good fight from within as I believe that is the only way the party will change. That being said, the Liberals have done nothing but destroy the fabric of Canada throughout the Trudeau era and through this orgy of spending and stealing and taxation. The NDP? Well, they have no idea as to how to govern. Their economic policy is so pathetic it isn't even warranted a look. The nation would be bankrupt and taxed to the hilt under their scheme. Their social policies would be rampant without any true progress. Throwing money at a problem does not make it go away. Investigating, removing funds, and then re-investing is the only way to go. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 46 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
Any thoughts on election-related issues that may touch on Canadian-American relations or on Windsor-Detroit issues? Do the Conservatives have an official party response to the US Western Hemisphere Passport Initiative? | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 1989 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.167.59.189 |
Goat, don't you think you are getting a little tough on the Liberals in view of the current health of the Canadian economy and this? The bold is for Americans to take note. Our balance budget run started at the same time as yours. Look at our mess now. Maybe that is why an American could enviously wonder "Hmm... why would they want to change things, other than Gomery?" NDP has no idea of how to govern is easy to say in that they never have. But they could conceivably get posts in a coalition. They are currently crowing how they influenced the last budget to include social spending. So they are not exactly powerless. Minority government, which Canada appears resigned to for some time, is the best of worlds for the NDP. Their line is good… gives us more leverage and we will get more things done. It was noted Harper used the word "change" 40 times in a speech to the faithful yesterday, so we know what his pitch is going to be. [Hey maybe you will be able to change the party from within.] But, other than Gomery, why will Canadians want things to change? If you think you have problems, just look to your south [or north in your case ]. | ||
Erikto Member Username: Erikto Post Number: 282 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 64.228.108.42 |
Lemme chime in for a moment on a day off and my first day back here in a while... The current Liberals have maintained a long series of balanced budgets. The last federal government to accomplish this was, believe it or not, the Liberals under Pierre Trudeau. In between these two Liberal governments, Canadians elected a party that almost TRIPLED our national debt. They were known as the Progressive Conservative Party. They were sold out by their last "leader" Peter McKay, who ran for party leadership on a platform of refusing to sell the party to the Reform Party (later called Reform-Alliance, briefly and appropriately called the Canadian Reform Alliance Party, or CRAP). Predictably McKay delivered the party to Stephen Harper. The P-C's were synonymous with wealth and influence. I think Goat is perhaps not recognizing that a lot of old time P-C's left the party in disgust after they joined Harper's band of western malcontents. They (the current Conservative Party) are socially conservative, they have a few members of visible minorities in their ranks, but every once in a while party members are caught saying terribly racist things in public. They are also tight with groups like Focus on the Family, a conservative anti-gay group. Stephen Harper suggested Paul Martin was pro-child-molestation during the last election. The P-C's said Jean Chretien's partially paralyzed face made him too ugly to be P-M back in '93 (under a younger and dumber John Tory who botched Kim Campbell's campaign so badly over that gaffe he had to leave politics for a while and pretend to be interested in charity via the United Way, but I digress). I noticed Canada's rightoid rag the National Post just ran a column suggesting the Conservatives shouldn't shy away from negative campaigning. Written by one David Frum. Seriously. Back to Stephen Harper; he is a self-described Libertarian who's into Ayn Rand, doesn't support gay rights, does support a war on drugs and is opposed to freedom of choice for women. Interesting take on libertarianism, eh? P.S. The Bloc Quebecois purport to be fiscally prudent, and did more damage to the P-C's in Quebec than to the Liberals. The B-Q formed near the end of Mulrooney's second term. Quebec is a weird place. We (the federal government, i.e. Ontario tax payers) sent them buckets of cash, now they claim to be hopping mad about Liberal corruption. If Washington DC papered Michigan with a pile of busy-work and no-show jobs, and gave Detroit more money for cultural events and the arts than any other American city (as is the case here with Montreal) would you guys turn on a benefactor so quickly? | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 7830 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.228.209.137 |
BS on the balanced budget. It was only balanced on the backs of taxpayers. Why the massive "surpluses"? Why not lower the taxes so that they can be proportional? The reason is that the Fiberals have consistently lowered their expectations all the while knowing what was coming in. Now they want to spend that too! Add that to the massive Ui fund and we can see a pattern emerge. Thieves and crooks no matter how you slice it. I want my money back and I want responsible gov't! | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 47 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
Goat, you have responsible government. That is why there is an election: the no confidence motion established that the government did not have the confidence of the House. Wait, I am being too literal? Sorry for the polisci humo(u)r.... | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 7831 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.228.209.137 |
Erikto, take the blinders off. YOu don't think that the Liberals have done a smear campaign since they took power? All I hear about is this so-called "secret agenda". Yet, I see a lot of backroom deals being done by the Liberals! The Liberals have slandered the Conservatives beyond recognition from healthcare (which the Supreme Court upheld due to inaction by the Liberal Party), to abortion to any other boogeyman in the closet. Though as I have often said...who has the track record of patronage and thievery? The liberals! I find it laughable that the liberals bring up abortion when we already know that the Conservatives will not touch the issue. Can one not govern even though they do not agree with the law? I do not believe abortion should be legal yet I understand thel aw and know that people have a choice. The same with Harper. Believe me, there is no love for Harper from me but at least take warranted shots. I have face to face. So Harper is a Libertarian, big deal? We will deal with him if and when he comes to power. It iseems ironic that the Liberal camp demonizes Harper even though he wants political reform so that the PM has LESS power. Yet, the Liberals have consolidated MORE power to the PM's office that it is now an oligarchy. For those who are anti-gay marriage, well they have the right to voice that opinion just as those who are for it can speak as loud as they wish. I for one am for same-sex marriage, but if I ran as a Conservative, I could at least voice what I thought was right. Under the Liberal guise of "democracy", you either tow the party line or get run our of the party. As for racist talk, don't forget the lying liberals and their so-called cross burning gatherings in BC (which were a total lie). What about the Native Americans who couldn't get clean water for over 5 years until the Ontario gov't moved them out on OUR dime? Hmmm...that can be construed as racist as well couldn't it? The reason many old time PC's left was because they knew that the Reform party was going to smash the PC party to smithereens and it showed. Now the "Alliance" that was another issue...yucky! BTW: Lowell, it is our energy sector that has created a lot of this surplus (the last 2 years) and before that it was an economy that hummed along not because of liberal policies but because of the Conservative policies in Ontario under Mike Harris. We (Ontario) had the hottest economy in the G-8 nations for years on end. Upinottawa: Love political humour. | ||
Gianni Member Username: Gianni Post Number: 199 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 69.3.69.13 |
Hey all you Canadian tax protester types. Be careful what you ask for. Don't like National Health Insurance? You can come here to the low tax paradise of the USA. And buy your own insurance. Good health care insurance costs easiliy $1000.00 US per month for a family. My employer pays significantly more than that. Are your taxes that high? | ||
Erikto Member Username: Erikto Post Number: 284 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 64.228.108.52 |
Uh, we certainly had a rather heated economy through the Mike "Get those fuc#ing Indians out of the park" Harris years. Yet the Tories privatized everything in sight, stopped funding a lot of social costs like cheap housing, cut welfare, and STILL managed to put us deeper into debt!! That's the conservative economic vision, just like Brian Mulrooney's. Lament the 'tax and spend' Liberals, talk up a line about belt tightening, enrich a few pals and leave the rest of the population holding the bag for years to come. I'll take balanced budgets over the conservative model any day. The party's own bills put it so far into debt they'd never survive in any business type of situation. As for Harper's self professed libertarianism, I brought that up in contrast to his remarkably conservative societal outlook. Before we go further, lemme reiterate I don't want to make this personal, least of all with fellow Canadians on here, who seem like a decent, well meaning bunch despite our political differnces. Off to work, see youse... | ||
Mjb3 Member Username: Mjb3 Post Number: 80 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.145.222.252 |
All this arguing about Canada is novel. Besides, isn't it just a matter of time before we annex them? In the meantime, I guess we have to let them think they are their own country. Let's have a toast to "America-Light." | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 7836 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.228.201.123 |
^^^ain't ever going to happen^^^ : ) I don't want to argue either Erikto. But let's not forget that the PC's had a debt because of the massive global recession, not because of their economic policy. Do we really have to go into Trudeau's era as well? He started out with a $300 million surplus (in 1960's monetary terms) but left a deficit of over $30 billion when Mulroney came to power. I can't believe that people (not saying you do Erikto) will hold a party accountable over 13+ years later. Sounds insane doesn't it? | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 50 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
Maybe Metro Detroit should consider annexing itself to Canada? The area's border woes would be cleared up, municipalities would get amalgamated, strong home rule would be abolished, a reasonable transit system would get built, and there would be some sort of clamp down on firearms. However, I am not sure if Canada would want to deal with this dysfunctional family.... | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 1997 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.167.59.189 |
I'm with you Upinottawa, whenever someone brings up the impossibility of Canada being annexed by the US, I say let Canada annex us. For those Americans negligent of history please review how Americans got their butts spanked in the Revolutionary war and Patriot's war when they sent expeditions to Canada. If you think Iraq is a mess... For those Canadians who grumble about their national health I second Gianni's comments. My family health insurance is 14K per year, that's before the co-pays, partial pays, and of course my taxes. I invite every Canadian family, before they calculate their taxes, to start by adding on a flat sum of $16.3K CAD on their tax bill. And remember, this must be paid ~whether you have work or not~. Otherwise take your chances and face bankruptcy and second rate treatment. | ||
Erikto Member Username: Erikto Post Number: 285 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 64.228.108.172 |
Hi Lowell, I think health care is the most pressing issue to most voters this time out. I could wax at length about this as I'm slowly writing an article about a recent legal case that poses a serious challenge to the Canada Health Act. I'll avoid that digression in favour of a quick observation or four... another burning issue, pun intended, is electricity. The last Ontario government privatized electricity and rates shot through the roof. As high as they are, the cost of privately generated electricity fluctuates and often costs more than the retail rates, creating another deficit. The Ontario Provincial NDP leader (as opposed to federal NDP leader Jack Layton) is Howard Hampton, who wrote a whole book on the history and prognosis of electricity in Ontario, but Ontarians are still too mad at Bob Rae (speaking of Goat's reference to blaming previous regimes) to show serious support for the NDP. Their tenures here and in B.C. have really hurt the party at the national level. The Conservatives will probably do well in their usual strongholds, I'm betting they will try to make crime the biggest issue for Ontarians. A particularly bitter race is expected in Belinda Stronach's riding (daughter of Magna magnate Frank Stronach), as she helped kill the P-C's with the Reform Party take-over, then left soon after to join the Liberals. I was up there earlier this week and noticed she's the only one who already has campaign signs all over the place in Newmarket. Jack Layton will probably keep his riding in Downtown East, and Olivia Chow, his wife, stands a fair chance of winning in my west side riding (which has been re-mapped over the years and might be moved back for this election for all I know). I'm not even a Paul Martin fan, (his love for and commitment to Canada didn't stop him from registering his Canadian Shipping Lines company to Honduras for various tax breaks) and the Liberals do plenty of annoying things, but between them and the Conservatives, they are the far less nefarious party. The B-Q are proud to be a secessionist one-trick pony. Of course Gilles Duceppe speaks English better than the French uttered by Mssrs Harper et Layton, but that's a different can 'o' worms. |
