Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 The Founding of Chicago Previous Next
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 1713
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.150.234
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 3:10 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I probably should have started this thread elsewhere, but we talk about Chicago vs. Detroit ad nauseum on this forum.

Detroit was founded in 1701.... with the same name (but with an apostrophe, and lower case). We all know that.... tricentennial, etc.

But I've often wondered about when Chicago was founded. I just came across a Chicago Public Library website that kinda gives this answer. But you actually have to do some research to find it.

Chicago was "discovered" in 1673 (some folks took a boat ride past that wilderness area in 1673). Based on that assuption, Detroit was "discovered" in 1634 when (IIRC) Champlain took a boat ride passed "d'Etroit".

The first permanent settler (on the site of the future Chicago) happened in 1779, when an African-American from Haiti built a home in the wilderness somewhere near today's downtown Chicago. From 1803-18 Fort Dearborn was built there, but there was no "Chicago" name used. In 1818 Illinois became a state, but the name Chicago is not on the 1818 Illinois map (how embarrasing!). It was not until 1833 that the name CHICAGO was used when the town incorporated. And even then they're not sure as to what the Indian name (for the new town) meant.

http://www.chipublib.org/004chicago/chihist.html/

So Detroit was founded in 1701, and based on your criteria, Chicago was either founded in 1779 or 1833.

(Message edited by gistok on January 06, 2006)
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 787
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 152.163.100.195
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 3:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The date I've heard used most often is 1803, the building of Ft. Dearborn, but the fort was later destroyed in 1812 and not rebuilt until 1816. Detroit has had a continuous European/American governmental presence since 1701.
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Alexei289
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Username: Alexei289

Post Number: 966
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.61.183.223
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 3:39 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Its 1833

Detroit actually had a trading post (a working economy) and a military governor (a working government). in 1701.


Chigago is purely an American city to the bone... whereas Detroit was here first and is not. 3 Different flags flew over Detroit during its history... Only 1 over chicago. In a way I feel much more a Detroiter, than even an American... My family can trace its history to 1701 when the fort was established here... so my family has supported, france, england, and the US... making me feel much less pride to be part of any of the 3. I would rather see Detroit succede before my own country, and feel that perhaps one day if the US ever broke up into states or regions, Detroit would still live on.


Cities have a much longer lifespan than Nations.


As a matter of fact In 1701, the trading post was established and it ran pretty well for 10-15 years. However, after a few rough winters the fort had to be abandoned for almost a decade before the french decided to make Detroit the central commerce point in the midwest. This in turn led to the indian trails that led into Detroit that have since become the main avenues out of the city (Gratiot, Woodward, Michigan, Grand River, and Fort.) that spawned a surge in development at the fort and finally stabilized it. It didnt really become a form "City" until about 1750 when the Brits controlled both sides of the river, and todays Windsor was the south eastern part of the city. Continuing up and down on both sides of the river were the ribbon farms that were only 200 ft wide, but 3 miles long... carrying the names that now are marked by the streets that marked their boundaries (dubiose, riopelle, Dickerson, Burns, Fischer, ect.)

Detroit remained outside the spherical influence of the US government until well into Michigan becomming a state. As recently as 1950, it was still fashionable in many Detroit communities to speak the french dialect of the region at social events, and to wear the plaid bottom skirts that were traditional french.


There were times in Detroit's history when the ribbon farmers were tied to trees, split down the middle, and send down the river with a tommahawk in their chest... Detroit has been riddled by violence, especially with native americans for the first 150 years of its history.



Detroit is an entity among itself... where Chigago is just another american city.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 2957
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 3:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

History is history, some more storied than other's. But the "Chicago is just another American city" just seems so irrelevant and childish. You don't have to malign another city to make your cities history important.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1500
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 4.229.132.62
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 4:22 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What I like is that the cat running detroit was banished to.................new orleans........because he was running a loose ship up here.Most people do not realize that detroit is older than new orleans.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 788
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 152.163.100.195
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 4:50 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Though Detroit did have a stagnant growth period the fort and settlement were never abandoned. There was always a manned stockade under the control of a French Commandant (until the British took control in 1760) and habitants working the surrounding land. (ref. Frontier Metropolis or online see History Detroit)
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2271
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 199.74.87.131
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 5:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Recommended book on Chicago History:

Nature's Metropolis

check it out
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Damon
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Username: Damon

Post Number: 640
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 172.172.171.82
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 8:00 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That African-American from Haiti's last name is DuSable.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 56
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 9:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't accept these "historical facts" as accurate. Consider this improbability:
"The area Cadillac marked off covered one square arpent (192.75 square feet)."

You would think that after all the time this factoid might be questioned. That would be a fort smaller than a 14-ft square!

Detroit's first prison cell?
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Ro_resident
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Username: Ro_resident

Post Number: 133
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 63.85.13.248
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 10:47 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that should read 192.75 feet squared, or approximately 37k square feet.

A quick search shows that an arpent is both a measure of length and of area.
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Zulu_warrior
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Username: Zulu_warrior

Post Number: 2393
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.251.27.41
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 11:00 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jean Baptiste Point du Sable

founder of Chicago
Born: c. 1750
Birthplace: St. Marc, Saint-Domingue (present-day Haiti)

Du Sable had a French father and an African-born slave mother. He was educated (possibly in France) and may have worked as a sailor. He had become a fur and grain trader in the Great Lakes region by the late 1770s, establishing a base at the site of what is now Chicago. In 1779 the British questioned Du Sable about his relations with the French. However, the British ultimately sent Du Sable to represent British trading interests with Indians around the St. Clair River, northeast of present-day Detroit.

Du Sable returned to his post at present-day Chicago in 1784, erecting several buildings at what gradually became a major trading center. Du Sable was a jack-of-all-trades, working as a carpenter, cooper, miller, and distiller. He was married to a Potawatomi Indian woman named Catherine, or Kittihawa, with whom he had two children, and he became increasingly involved in the affairs of the Potawatomi tribe. But in 1800 he failed in his effort to become Potawatomi chief, and he sold his property for what was then the enormous sum of $1,200, and moved to St. Charles, Mo., where he worked as a farmer and trader. In 1912 the city of Chicago placed a marker in his memory at the corner of Kinzie and Pine streets. In 1987 a commemorative stamp was issued to honor Du Sable.

Died: 8/28/1818

The story of a fur traper named Du Sable leaves no doubt that this handsome frenchman/ creole marrried into and remained a good friend of the Illinois Indians.

He also maneuvered with the skill of an experienced diplomat as Illinois slipped from French to British to U.S. control. His personal charm and diplomacy kept him from being jailed as and enemy agent and won him powerful white and Indian allies.

There are gaps in his early life. Du Sable was born somewhere in the Caribbean in 1745 to a French sailor father and an African slave women. Sent to Paris for an education, he ended up in the Illinois Territory in 1779. With him came twenty-three French art treasures and a desire to become a fur trapper.

As a Frenchman in a land recently taken by the British, Du Sable fell under suspicion. On July 4, 1779, a British officer complained he "was much in the interest of the French" and Du Sable was arrested for "treasonable intercourse with the enemy." He managed to escape only to be arrested again. This time he so impressed British Governer Patrick Sinclair that Du Sable was released and for five years placed in charge of a settlement on the St. Charles River.

Du Sable had no difficulty in persuading local Indians he was a friend. It took much longer for white Chicagoans to recognize that Du Sable was their city's founder.

Du Sable entered the fur trading business and married a Potawatomi women named Catherine . Their friends included a host of people, among them Chief Pontiac and Daniel Boone.

One can only wonder what rough frontiersmen and Indians thought when they first entered the Du Sable home and saw its dislay of French works of art. the couple also purchased and developed some eight hundred acresof land in Peoria, but Chicagowas their great love and they lived there for sixteen years.

Their trading post became prosperous and the Du Sables soon had son and a daughter. Centrally located, their store and home attracted many trappers and swelled to include a forty by twenty-foot log cabin, a bakehouse, a diary, a smoke house, a poultry housel; a workshop, a barn, and a mill. Du Sable made a living as a trader, but was also a miller, a cooper, and a farmer.

The Du Sables became devout Catholics and in 1798 were formally married in a church ceremony. They were delighted when, two years later, their daughter married another Frenchman in a Catholic ceremony.

Jean and Catherine , although doing well, sold off twenty one of his French paintings, perhaps to finance his next career move. He announced his candidacy for chief of a local Indian Nation at Mackinac, but he lost the election.

As the couple grew older they decided to sell their Chicago home and move in with their daughter's new family in St. Charles, Missouri. For the property and houses alone, they received $1200, and they also sold thirty head of cattle, thirty-eight pigs, two mules, and many chickens.

When Catherine died in 1800, the founder of Chicago began to worry about his future. He did not want to die penniless or to be buried in any but a Catholic cemetary.
Though, in 1814 he did have to file bankruptcy papers, he was laid to rest four years later in St. Charles Borromero Roman Catholic Cemetary.

Jean Baptiste Pointe du Sable was born in Haiti (then St Domingue) around 1745. His father was a French sea captain. Du Sables mother was an ex-slave. His father took Du Sable to France to be educated. Du Sable later worked as a seaman on one of his fathers ships. When Du Sable was twenty, he headed toward New Orleans in one of his fathers boats. While sailing in the Gulf of Mexico, his boat sank and he was injured. New Orleans at this time belonged to France but was under Spanish control. Du Sable had lost his identification papers and was almost enslaved. French priest protected him and he made his way up the Mississippi River to St Louis. Du Sable later settled in an area near Peoria, Illinois.

In the early 1770s Du Sable built a log cabin and owned over 800 acres of land. The potawatomi indians gave him an indian as bride. He named her Catherine and they later had a son and a daughter. Years later, Du Sable left the Area and made his way north until he reached the Great Lakes area. The Indians called this land Eschikagou (Chicago), the place of bad smells due to the odor of the swampland. By 1779, Du Sable built the first permanent home on the north bank of the Chicago River. He also built a trading post. Trappers were well paid for their fur pelts and Du Sable sold them supplies and tools. A mill, smoke house, dairy, horse stable, poultry house and barn were some of the buildings on Du Sables trading post. Within a short time, this trading post became the main supply station for trappers, traders and Indians and was the key route for merchant trading in Detroit and Canada. Among the many things he supplied were furs, meats, wheat, and bread. However, on May 7 1800, the Father of Chicago sold his land and property for a mere $1200 and left the area. He moved to St Charles, Missouri and died almost penniless on August 28, 1818.
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Zulu_warrior
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Username: Zulu_warrior

Post Number: 2394
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.251.27.41
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 11:02 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The thread is appropriate: DuSable was a Detroiter for awhile:

picture
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 2235
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.202.227.12
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 12:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So Chi town can thank it's existence to tha D! :-)
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 9710
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.118.137.228
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 2:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When I visited Chicago last I was most impressed the the "Detroit" neighborhoods there.
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 2241
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.202.227.12
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 3:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lol Sport
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Dave
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Username: Dave

Post Number: 89
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.106.220.216
Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 1:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In the ojibwe language group (which includes potawatomi) nouns are given a ng ending to indicate a place where the noun is located. Ishpeming and Chesaning are two examples of original native place names that are still used. Other original native names are still used , but the final g or ng has been dropped. Examples include Saginaw (Saginang), Muskegon (musgegong}, and probably Chicago (Zhigagong). Ojibwe is an oral language. Most modern teachers use spelling conventions that would spell Chicago as I did. All g's are hard, and the zhi sounds very close to chi but is a little softer. The base ojibwe noun is zhigago or skunk and the ng ending makes it "the place of the skunk" or "where the skunk lives". Zulu's translation of "place of bad smells" works very well.
dave
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Rockcity2windycity
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Username: Rockcity2windycity

Post Number: 22
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 68.40.139.237
Posted on Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 2:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

detroit cannot compare to chicago as far entertainment, nightlife, and economy. but for some reason i feel safer in detroit than i do in chicago. chicago has alot of laws and the police here can pretty much do whatever they want to you. the government of illionis has alot of power. it's very strange being here. i'm not used to the government being in so many facets of my life. i've lived in 4 different states and so far michigan has been the most free. they have cameras in the neighborhood so the police can see what's going on. there is no right to carry laws in Illinois. the chicago city council has over 50 members. all they do is make up laws. it's a weird place. i'm glad i'm moving back to michigan
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Broken_main
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Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 586
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.222.11.226
Posted on Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 2:22 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Rock...Welcome back. When are you moving back to MI.???
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 3630
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.224
Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 12:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit with a population of 889,000 People. 81% Black, 9% White, 5.7% Hispanic 1% Asian, and 3% Arab and East Indian.

Chicago with a population of 2,860,000 people 45% White, 30% Black, 27% Hispanic, 4% Asian 2% Arab and East Indian.

Detroit has a large black community, more than any other black American city from Detroit River to 5 points. and from The borders of Dearborn to 8 Mile Rd. This city has Greektown, Chaldean town on W. 7 Mile Rd. Corktown ( Irish Community), 3 fast growing ethnic Arab communties, 1 fast growing East Indian/ Bengladeshi community in the NW Side and 1 fast growing Mexican and Hispanic community a quick developed SW side. Detroit was once a predominately white community until segregation, freeways, ecomonic flight, white flight, growing black communities and black control of all city services destroy it. Detroit has the highest unemployement rate in the U.S. (14%) Downtown Detroit skyline is remant of the Great Depression with on other future glass covered skyscrapers after the Renaissance Center was built. Downtown Detroit was once abandoned now being ultilized and gentrified into retails and condos, and single family homes. That includes most desolate blighted ghettohoods. The mayor is black, Kwame Kilpatrick Also know is " The Hip Hop Mayor" due to his young appearance to black communties. The city council is predominately black and that includes most of the city workers. Fewer hip cool white folks are comming back to Detroit for they felt that the suburban living is getting too boring for them. Black flight from Detroit to the suburbs is increasing by 4% a day and by 2050 Detroit's black population will be decreased to less then 40% while other white and other ethnic race will be able to replace the once black communities in Detroit.

Chicago has a large white community, most of them lived in the North and Northwest side, and southwest side. It has Greektown, and Jewish community, Polish community, German communities, " Little Lithuania" at the West side. 2 Chinatowns one near the South Side at Amour Square and the other at the near North Side And a new Asian Mixed community at the upper North Side. Chicago has 3 fast growing Hispanic comminties, one at the lower East side near the Indiana border, The other at the near North Side and Another at the South and SW side. Chicago has a history of neighborhood street gang promblems from the Al-Capone to Vice Lords. White filght from Chicago to the suburbs has slow down since the early 1980s due to quick tax breaks and air rights. Gentrification of most Chicago neighborhoods was a full blast pushing most poor and low-income folks out of the area. Chicago has oodles of Federal subsidized housing, but most of them went to dispair, crime and violence so the Chicago Alderman board has most of them town down for future luxury condos. Even the infamous Cabrini Green Projects had to be shut down due to violence. Chicago has 2 black communities one in the West Side and other in the South Side. but most Black Chicagoans are flighting to the south suburbs to get away from the domestic violence, gentification and empty promises from the alderman board. Demarcation lines had been set up in most Chicago neighorhoods to keep Blacks and Hispanics away to from newly developed white communities. Chicago has a beautiful Downtown with rich like retail and department stores galore along with superlofts in every block that. Chicago's skyline is filled with glass towering superskyscrapers that can reach the heavens that includes the Sears tower. Chicago has a white mayor named Richard Daley son of Richard Daley The alderman board is predominately white with a few a blacks, Hispanics and Asians representing each ward.
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Czar
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Username: Czar

Post Number: 2823
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 129.137.184.62
Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 1:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Uh, is there anything wrong with liking both cities? I wasn't aware that in order to like Detroit, you had to disparage other cities.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 3636
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 207.74.110.95
Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 8:35 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Czar,

Here's your answer, Detroit, black, dirty, with ecomonic problems.

Chicago, white, clean with a ecomonic boom.

Detroit was founded by a white frenchman, but now blacks have been taken over.

Chicago, was founded by a black frenchman, but now whites have been taken over.

There's your simularities.

(Message edited by danny on January 11, 2006)
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Czar
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Username: Czar

Post Number: 2828
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 129.137.195.229
Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 10:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ghettodan, funny, but I lived in Chicago for ten years and I wonder where all those Blacks and Hispanics in my neighborhoods came from? Maybe they were actually white but put on disguises when they went out in public?
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2278
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 199.74.87.131
Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 11:46 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chicago with a population of 2,860,000 people 45% White, 30% Black, 27% Hispanic, 4% Asian 2% Arab and East Indian.

Danny, you may want to check your results. Chicago is NOT predominately white.

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