  Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1450 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.164.127 |
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20060112/M ETRO/601120367 Just wondering would you vote yes if on the ballot? Side note: Gail Warden is not a women but nice assumption by the news based on the name. | ||
Jenkje Member Username: Jenkje Post Number: 131 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 69.212.255.133 |
Uh. No. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1304 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
I already pay my tax, it is called being a Detroit Zoological Society Member. Have the keychain card to prove it... | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6401 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
Is this his comment for everything. Mr. regionalization doesn't want to support the zoo now that Detroiters aren't eating $5 MM annually. (Message edited by jt1 on January 12, 2006) | ||
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob Post Number: 83 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 206.81.45.34 |
people don't want to pay taxes for amenities like a zoo, then they biatch about there being nothing to do around here! no wonder we're all fatties, pretty soon the only entertainment we'll have will be bars and restaurants. i would vote yes, and find some way to deal with the loss of ten whole freaking dollars a year. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 5339 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
We tried this. With the ridiculously puny .25 mil "arts tax" that would have secured funding for the DIA, DSO, Zoo, Cranbrook, Pontiac Art Center, Channel 56... It went down in flames. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1540 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.234 |
It's not that people don't want to pay extra taxes for things like the zoo, It is that we're overly taxed already and are unwilling to pay more. If you want money for the zoo, figure out a way to lower the amount we pay for everything else. Many people would go along with this. The tax burden in Detroit and Michigan forces businesses and people to move elsewhere. We need to stop taxing the living daylights out of ourselves. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6403 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
MORE ROADS! LESS ARTS! MORE ROADS! LESS ARTS! MORE ROADS! LESS ARTS! MORE ROADS! LESS ARTS! MORE ROADS! LESS ARTS! MORE ROADS! LESS ARTS! MORE ROADS! LESS ARTS! MORE ROADS! LESS ARTS! MORE ROADS! LESS ARTS! MORE ROADS! LESS ARTS! signed, The cultural wasteland that is SE Michigan. Why support arts, the zoo, museums, programs for children when we can push to increase taxes to support more roads. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1305 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
Less trash pick-up and more NEZ's Less trash pick-up and more NEZ's Less trash pick-up and more NEZ's Less trash pick-up and more NEZ's Less trash pick-up and more NEZ's Less trash pick-up and more NEZ's Less trash pick-up and more NEZ's Less trash pick-up and more NEZ's ...oops, wrong thread | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 286 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 35.11.158.84 |
While the taxes in Detroit maybe too high overall Michigan is middle of pack. Engler cuts taxes for years and still businesses aren't flocking here. I don't how other major metro area more thriving than us can support taxes, but we can't. | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 336 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 147.240.236.8 |
Other major metro areas, Chicago, Atlantia, New York, etc. have the population base that Detroit lacks and there is no regional cooporation here to make things happen that cross political boundaries. Thats one way that they can do it and we cannot. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1154 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
Huh Gildas? Detroit is the 6th most populous metropolitan area in the nation (even bigger than the Atlanta Metro area). It's not like there is a dearth of financial resources in Southeast Michigan. With that being said, I think a zoo tax is kind of silly. Pass a tax to support decent public transit, then we'll worry about the zoo. | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 2429 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.251.27.41 |
Yes, we need it. Or else it will close | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1181 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.220.230.150 |
Uh, Raising taxes to cover budget shortfalls are just a bandaid until next year. They need to find the real problem. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1155 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
Is there any reason the Huron-Clinton MetroParks can't take over the operation of the zoo? | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3368 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
DaninDC: Equal population sizes ¹ equal fiscal resources between regions. You are smart enough to know that. The overall economic health and economic base of an area will have a huge impact on its fiscal resources. Currently SE Michigan is sucking wind with relatively high unemployment, low tax revenue cause by massive underemployment issues and an automotive industry gasping to stay competitive. Even thriving and growing Macomb County has had to dip into their rainy day funds due to significant revenue shortfalls. To really get out of the mess, clearly we need to raise our tax burden by 15-20% to construct a rail transit system to move a few people around at a huge subsidy cost...... | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1541 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.105 |
Same reason they don't want to take over Belle Isle. They already don't have enough money to take care of the things currently on their plate. Why would they want to pick up another expense without any new cash? (Message edited by ndavies on January 12, 2006) | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 658 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.90 |
And the last time someone mentioned it the City Council got all bent out of shape because it was just another attempted "land grab" from the suburbs. (Edit: Above post referring to Belle Isle, not the Zoo) (Message edited by susanarosa on January 12, 2006) | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1156 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
Skulker, I wasn't necessarily referring to the fiscal health of local government entities. I was commenting on Gildas's post regarding size of metropolitan area versus ability to support a zoo. You and I both know that there is enough money among the 4.5 million residents of Southeast Michigan to support the zoo, among other things. The lack of political will is something else entirely, which is really what this issue is. Now, one can argue that, with the nation's highest unemployment rate among states, and the hurting of the auto industry, money might actually be a little tight. Michigan, however, seems to find enough money to continue building freeways and producing McMansions like there's no tomorrow, so I would think there's 5 million bucks somewhere out there. I know you're smarter than that. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 829 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.246.13.131 |
Support the Zoo tax, this will expand the zoo train so that we will have a transit system in the metro area. Imagin, those sleek trains couseing up Woodward to bring people to the Zoo. Sometimes we have to be creative. Call a goat a horse and we might get a mule. | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2620 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 204.25.242.51 |
Or we can continue to build new freeways and widen roads, paving over farmland, all at a huge subsidy cost. Only difference is that one subsidy cost is readily apparent (mass transit) and one is hidden (current M.O.) | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6408 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
This is not raising taxes in a regional sense. It is distributing the cost of a regional asset to the region. Right now there is a 5 MM subsidy from the city. This is pretty much asking the entire region to help with the costs as opposed to just the city. Some people may see a tax hike but total dollars to this will be a wash. I guess it is fine if Detroit eats the dollars but heaven forbid that cost be spread to everyone. HMCA is good although no parks are in Detroit. This is bad because Detroit was funding it and the rest of the region was not. Sounds like Detroiters have been getting hit with a doubley whammy of pay us for suburban based regional assets (HMCA) and pay for a suburban based regional asset (zoo). Nice policy. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3370 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
DaninDC: I don't see any current or real proposed freeway building here in metro Detroit. I see major projects stopped because there is no money. Just my observation from here. The $5 million is an annual operating subsidy not a one shot deal as in find $5 MM under the couch cushions once and we're set. This would require about $75 million capital campaign to establish an endowment that covers the annual gap alone. That ask would not address updates, expansions, resoratioans and renovations which is where you find the large corporate and foundation donors. Those would be separate and later asks. I sit on the board of directors of a non-profit and see first hand what folks are willing to pony up for and it is tough work here. I really don't foresee the Zoological society being able to capture $75 MM+ for an annual operations endowment, ESPCIALLY after the local coffers have been drained by DIA, the Max, The Opera House, the Riverfront Conservancy, the Charles H Wright....all very large asks that have not yet met their goals. Some of these asks are nearly 5-6 years old as well. A small regional tax for the zoo is not an unreasonable burden nor an unreasonable request.
No, if one were to leave the bubble of DC, one would come here and find that money IS tight. No fucking "maybes" about it. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1159 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
Skulker, why do you always have to make things so damn personal? For you to continually insist that I'm living in a bubble is plain ignorant, and to be honest, quite unfair. NOTE: See I-75 expansion. I guess $1.3 billion to add a lane in each direction is just chump change, right? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6412 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
That is a deferred project that people in OC are fighting for. It is not set and does not have money allocated. But why let facts get in the way. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1162 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
Deferred as part of Jenny's Fix-It First, but still in the works. MDOT hasn't given up hope on it just yet. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3372 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
So its a widening of I-75, not a new freeway....and its not currently happening...as part of a policy of Fix It First... That is a far cry from the statement that says...
If the shoe fits, wear it. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6419 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
Defferd and still in the works are not the same thing. Deferred and being considered might be a better option. So should we consider all mentioned or considered projects as 'in the works' You're stretching this one to make a point that isn't there. You also should check to see who is really pushing for this Show me where MDOTs 5 year plan shows this expansion. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1163 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
Page 157 http://www.michigan.gov/docume nts/MDOT_5_Year_Plan_Expanding system_143171_7.pdf | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6424 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
I stand corrected. I am willing to bet a large sum of money that the project isn't sone within 10 years. | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 25 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.33.56.156 |
The Michigan Zoo----state should take it over, put some money into it, and get it shaped up to the point that people will want to visit it---its been done in other places and quite successfully---baltimore for one--- | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1164 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
I bet so too. I don't think the Feds will go for it. Should we start a telethon for the zoo? If you think about it, it's only $1.11 per year per person in the Detroit Metropolitan Area. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6426 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
That is the frustrating thing. People don't want to pay the $1.11 per person per year for a zoo but will go to Starbucks for an $8 cup of coffee every morning. That is one more thing that is killing this region. We have gotten so dispersed and people have gotten into a 'bigger house, better car mentality' that many in the metro area completely forget about things like the zoo, museums, theaters, etc. WE have a lot of great cultural venues and we have a lot of people that consider culture as renting a foreign movie once a year. Damn shame if you ask me. | ||
Jim Member Username: Jim Post Number: 963 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.27.192 |
I don't understand how any section of the metro area can be considered 'booming', when in order to 'thrive' other areas must be vacated and left to fall to differing levels of neglect. | ||
Mcp001 Member Username: Mcp001 Post Number: 2009 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.14.135.95 |
My my my, the generousity of some individuals here with other people's money never ceases to amaze me. The "Sorry that you cannot pay your (fill in the blank: mortgage, utility bills, car payment}, but the need for a zoo tax outweighs your base desires" argument is beginning to get a little tedious here... | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1349 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.212.226.203 |
My my my, the desire of many people to live life as hermits never ceases to amaze me. Who needs a public anything? I can hide in my basement and buy anything I'd ever need from the TV and the computer. I can even make a living. Streets? Museaums? Zoos? Those are just wastes of my money. It is our money. Not other people's money. By swapping a couple of words, your statement means the same things, but sounds much different: The "Sorry that you cannot pay your (fill in the blank: mortgage, utility bills, car payment}, but the need for an airforce to keep the enemy at bay outweighs your base desires" argument is beginning to get a little tedious here... -or- The "Sorry that you cannot pay your (fill in the blank: mortgage, utility bills, car payment}, but the need for a levy to keep the rising sea level out outweighs your base desires" argument is beginning to get a little tedious here... -or- The "Sorry that you cannot pay your (fill in the blank: mortgage, utility bills, car payment}, but the need for police outweighs your base desires" argument is beginning to get a little tedious here... -or- The "Sorry that you cannot pay your (fill in the blank: mortgage, utility bills, car payment}, but the need to pay school teachers outweighs your base desires" argument is beginning to get a little tedious here... | ||
Huggybear Member Username: Huggybear Post Number: 116 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 70.230.16.223 |
Patterson always has "another way" if it is a question of some miniscule levy for a cultural institution. If he is such a financial genius, we need him on the boards of the various cultural institutions around here. But it's hard to think that his statements are serious. Patterson always purports to speak for the taxpayers of Oakland County when he opposes anything having to do with public projects (particularly cultural ones). His rants (if true - I hope not) makes his constituency come off as (1) shortsighted, (2) venal, and (3) uncultured. I wouldn't want him representing me. But since I don't vote in Oakland County, I can only hope that his constituency sees the light and forces a change in the message. We should impose an arts tax, but if poor people pay it too, these institutions should give a certain number of free or seriously reduced seats (or tickets) a year to people below a certain income level. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1522 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 4.229.123.247 |
Your right about one thing Huggybear LBP should be on some boards......hell maybe he is.Either way he would do a damn site better job of running things then the current Detroit administration. I aint from OC.I do however understand the failry simple concept of getting something for my money.And whether you or I agree or not with LBP his motivation(according to him)is seeing that his constituents get a fair shake for their money.And they keep re-electing him so they must like him |
