  Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 127 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
This is just what Metro Detroit's depressed economy needs. Quote from today's National Post respecting the US Homeland Security's plan to require Americans travelling to Canada to carry passports (or PASS cards) to re-enter the United States. Canadians will also have to carry passports to enter the US: "The Bush administration has been buffeted by criticism since it announced last year, in response to legislation passed by Congress, that Canadians and Americans entering the United States will no longer be allowed to show only a driver's licence or birth certificate when crossing the border. Among the biggest concerns was that the cost of obtaining a passport would discourage tourist traffic between Canada and the United States and devastate the economies of such border communities as Windsor, Ont., and Detroit, Mich." This program will have severe economic implications for the Metro Detroit/Windsor region. Windsorites will need to purchase passports to go to baseball games, eat at Mexican town, shop, take friends to the DIA, Greektown, Campus Martius for a skate, etc. There will be no more "lets take our out of town friends over to Detroit to..." because if one person does not have or does not bring their passport, there will be no entry to the US. What is certain is that revenues for the DIA, Detroit Zoo, the Autoshow and sports events will decrease because of declining Canadian visits to and spending in Metro Detroit. Windsor will probably be hit harder. The whole story from the National Post (Canada: Toronto): http://www.canada.com/national post/story.html?id=8177558e-91 c3-4ad6-8e6e-db63816581bd&k=76 330 From the Detroit News: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20060118/M ETRO/601180358/1016/METRO05 | ||
Atl_runner Member Username: Atl_runner Post Number: 1784 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.209.118.72 |
Impact.. yes. Devastate? Doubtful. It's quite a change, but something that almost all border countries everywhere have in place. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8059 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.228.195.66 |
Runner don't be naive. When people are used to things being a certain way and then a major change of course occurs; Most people end up shying away. That is a fact...folks DON'T like change. That being said, why the hell don't they use the new driver's license cards with the finger-print and scan? Seems like a no-brainer... | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1185 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.220.230.150 |
Becuase that is a license to drive a car. It is not ID and is not intended to be. | ||
Mthouston Member Username: Mthouston Post Number: 2 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 63.77.247.130 |
SJ As of this monment in time a Vaild Driver License is a acceptable ID. Not untill 2008 will that change. See this link. http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0, 1607,7-127-1627-130358--,00.ht ml | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8063 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.228.195.66 |
sj, Why can't it be deemed so? Cripes, these are for people who LIVE in the USA and want to leave for vacation and come BACK! Talk about ass-backward requirements. | ||
Huggybear Member Username: Huggybear Post Number: 132 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 192.217.12.254 |
As far as I understand the passport issue, I don't think it is driven by some abstract desire to inconvenience as much as perceptions on the part of Washington that Canada's borders are extremely porous, that anyone can get permanent resident status (and a drivers license) there, and that it is harder to forge a passport than other types of identification. This perception changes US-Canada from something like the EU into three countries with two sets of borders. I don't agree with this assessment, but it does seem mind blowingly easy to come into Canada from the States - and twice in the past three months they have failed to ask me for any identification at all. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8064 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.228.195.66 |
So, what does that have to do with showing proper ID to get back into your country (USA)? Great! It's easy to get into Canada, but they are asking US citizens to have this new ID card. Funny that more illegals come from Mexico and through your own open borders than do from Canada. Just like all the terrorists...it was reported that all came from Canada when actually NOT one did. But of course that was never really talked about was it? This is not about foreigners needing legitimate ID to get into the USA but US residents needing passports (or this silly ID card) to get back into THEIR OWN country of residence. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 65 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.2.191.57 |
Reported today on the local TV news in Phoenix: Newspaper: Mexican military crossed into U.S. 216 times since '96 http://www.azcentral.com/news/ articles/0117MexicanMilitary17 -ON.html I'm beginning to think Washington DC is more interested in identifying citizens than terrorists. (Message edited by Jimaz on January 18, 2006) | ||
Billybbrew Member Username: Billybbrew Post Number: 117 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
A driver license does NOT prove your citizenship. Even though it is commonly accepted at the US-Canadian Border crossing, it is not a valid for of identification unless accopmanied by a birth certificate, passport, green card, visa, etc. Those things prove citizenship. Any alien, can get a driver license, they are not restricted to US citzens only. I don't agree with the passport, any documentation that proves your citizenship should be acceptable. Just my 2 cents... | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 128 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
I do not think that anyone is suggesting that a drivers' licence establishes citizenship. Of course, (if legislation allowed) a state (or province) could merger its drivers' licence and birth certificates into one document. Or a drivers' licence could include information about a person's place of birth. The Passport initiative is a bit bizarre in that it requires Americans who leave the United States to have a passport or PASS card to re-enter the US. If the program was targeted at foreign nationals then Canadians (for example) would have to have passports to enter the US and Americans could continue to show birth certificates or satisfy US CBP of their citizenship. It is funny how Canada is labelled as being weak on illegal immigration when the United States has a wide-open backdoor to illegal migration from Mexico. The US government (and to be fair Congress is involved in this) appears to be more interested in targeting legal movement of people (i.e. at border crossings) rather than people smuggling operations at remote locations. Just to be clear: in no way am I saying that illegal Mexican migrants are terrorists - in general, they are people trying to make a better life for themselves and their families. Just like people from other countries in the world. (Message edited by upinottawa on January 18, 2006) | ||
Spitty Member Username: Spitty Post Number: 417 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 136.1.1.101 |
It's too bad that they'll never have a sale on passports. At least I'm all set until 2015. | ||
Douglasm Member Username: Douglasm Post Number: 467 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.189.188.28 |
Well stated, Billybbrew..... .....a voter registration card works, also. This has become a BIG issue here in the Pacific Northwest, where tourism traffic across the border is huge, and the economic impact on Seattle, WA and Vancouver/Victoria B.C. would be fairly large. But unless a card/pass system is set up somehow, the economic impact in smaller border areas would be fairly important, too. Cross border commerce is a major player here in Central Washington state. At the Wal-Mart in Omak, WA where I rep Foster Farms poultry products, the meat manager estimates on weekends 30% of his business comes from Upper Okanogan Valley British Columbia towns, the border being about 50 miles north of his store.... | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6473 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.20 |
George W. Bush hates black people .... and Candians. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 129 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
I wonder if the US government plans to accept expired passports? Currently, a Canadian can enter the US with an expired passport and Americans can enter Canada with expired passports. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 202 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 207.200.116.139 |
-->George W. Bush hates black people....and Canadians. jt1, I'll bet then that a Black Canadian would drive him over the threshold, ay? | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 814 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.129.146.186 |
Don't depend on a voter's registration card working. It's technically no more sufficient than a driver's license. My dad really got hassled going to Windsor on the tunnel bus for the fireworks (and this was years ago) because all he had was his license and voter's registration. Even though my unmarried sister was with him and had her passport and other ID showing the same last name and address customs really hassled him. (No, he doesn't present as a trafficker, or stoner, or any other profiled stereotype - just middle-aged middle management uniform wearing American dad.) | ||
Jiminnm Member Username: Jiminnm Post Number: 278 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.241.164.222 |
This will apply to travel between the US & Mexico, as well as Canada. The lines at the border down here are already horribly long, so this won't speed things up. The reason driver's licenses will not be accepted is because several states do not require proof of citizenship or legal residence to issue licenses, so they issue them to illegal immigrants. That's why there has been a discussion about having a national driver's license. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2180 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.233.2.226 |
"Just like all the terrorists...it was reported that all came from Canada when actually NOT one did. But of course that was never really talked about was it?" Goat, that statement is not true. Of the top of my head, at least 2 or 3 came through Canada. Ringleader Mohammed Atta came through Maine from Canada. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 130 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
Metrodetguy: you are joking, right? "In the weeks after the attacks, investigators established that all of the hijackers entered the United States from countries other than Canada, a finding that got the official stamp last summer with the release of the Sept. 11 commission report." http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/articles/A38816-2005Apr 8.html (Message edited by upinottawa on January 18, 2006) | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8068 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.228.195.66 |
Metrodetguy Back that statement up with fact please as not one of those hi-jackers came through Canada. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 132 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
Metrodetguy: not trying to attack you on this one. FYI, we Canucks are a bit sensitive about this urban legend. Senator Hilary Clinton was one of the first prominent US leaders to repeat this misinformation. She now knows the truth. She is also a vocal opponent of the passport initiative citing that it will not improve security and will significantly reduce tourism and day-trips. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1471 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 68.42.168.234 |
This would hurt Windsor more than Detroit. The casino and strip clubs would take a big hit. Imagine how happy the 3 Detroit Casinos will be if this happens. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2184 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.141.79.112 |
Yes correction, to an extent. I was responding (in part) to previous claims on here that "terrorists have never come through Canada into the US". I was thinking of the failed Seattle and LAX bombing plots. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 136 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
Of course, Ahmed Ressam is Algerian and not Canadian. This new passport initiative does not include people like Ahmed Ressam. He already has an obligation to show his passport because he is Algerian. | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 3269 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.37.83.196 |
This won't affect the US economy. If it affects anything it will be Windsor and Ontario (especially the casino there) that gets affected. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 1592 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.84.183.189 |
Won't affect the US economy??? Isn't Canada the US' largest trading partner?? Everytime I go across the border I see trucks, trucks & more trucks going back & forth. Obviously there's something in those trucks that's worthwhile. This kind of log jam at the border will affect more than just casual tourism- not just here but along the entire length of the border. Think about how this affects places like Seattle, Buffalo and other border crossings. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 141 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
Considering the vast sprawl that is Metro Detroit, many Windsorites live closer to city (and visit more often) than many suburban Detroiters. Windsor also has one of Canada's highest per-capita income levels and Windsorites have been known to frequent the area's finer malls, sporting events, cultural events, etc. Living in Ottawa, I have only been to Detroit ten times in the last two years. Each time I spent between $50 and $250 US (the latter being the money I wasted on Lions tickets). Each time I went over with someone who did not have a passport or did not have their passport with them. These trips would not occur under the proposed passport program. Windsorites hold season’s tickets to the Wings, Lions, Pistons, and Tigers. They buy individual seats for these events. They attend and support the arts in Detroit. They like to shop over there. They also like to bring friends from out of town to experience what Windsor has to offer by being so close to Detroit. Ask the guy who owns the Mexican Village if this passport plan is going to hurt or help his business? In the last couple of years I have brought friends over to Detroit for the purposes of changing their negative attitudes towards the city. For the most part I have been successful. However, to convince someone to pay the approx. $100 to get a passport (get the papers signed, photos taken, etc.) to go to Detroit for a couple hours will be unsellable. Just wait, the business community (especially in the city) will notice the drop in business. | ||
Compn Member Username: Compn Post Number: 48 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 65.29.121.215 |
show me your papers! you damned dirty american tourerrorists! if lots of people show up there every day without a passport, maybe the border trolls will get tired of sending honest americans back and forget this passport nonsense. there are lots of busses taking seniors from farmington hills > windsor casino's. i'm not sure how they work out the proper id... maybe its some under the table/casino is responsible stuff going on. why is george bush scared of canadian/american travel anyhow? it seems you can make your own passport photos... http://www.dpchallenge.com/tut orial.php?TUTORIAL_ID=22 | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 1603 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.84.183.189 |
America has really really become paranoid as of late. The current administration now wants to scope out Google for their records. They've already been busted with wire tapping and who knows what other forms of obtrusive injustice they're gonna pull off in the name of protecting out country from terrorists? And now they're trying to make it that much more difficult for Canadians to cross the border... sheesh. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 156 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 198.103.184.76 |
Some U.S. Senators are awakening to the Passport Initiative's negative economic implications on the U.S. tourism industry: January 28, 2006 THE CALGARY SUN PAGE: 29 (NEWS) BORDER CARD WORRIES U.S.: TOURISM INDUSTRY THREATENED Some U.S. senators complained yesterday about plans to require a new security card for Americans coming back from Canada, saying it will hurt the economy. The U.S. announced this month it was ditching plans to require passports and will instead start issuing a security card at about one-half the cost by the end of the year. But senators from states that border Canada said that will still be disruptive. "We want to make sure we don't do something that doesn't (actually) increase security, but instead really harms our economy and the tourism industry," said Democratic Sen. Patty Murray of Washington state. And so many people still think they'll need a passport, they've just stopped taking trips across the border, said Murray. Senator Ted Stevens, a Republican from Alaska, said the U.S. and Canada should work it out so the same cards are acceptable on both sides of the border. Canadian officials have said they will devise a system that links to the U.S. one. While Canada is pleased passports are out of the running, there are still concerns about timing. Under U.S. law, the cards will be required by Jan. 1, 2008, from all Americans, Canadians and Mexicans arriving in the U.S. over a land crossing. So Canada needs to meet that deadline in devising its own card. Murray suggested the U.S. administration set up an advisory committee with business people and politicians from border states to investigate the impact. | ||
Gmich99 Member Username: Gmich99 Post Number: 50 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 65.29.97.102 |
What a waste of resources. We attack Iraq and when Bin Laden is in Afganistan and move to shore up one of the safest borders in the world. When I think terrorism I think the great white north. |
