Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Fine Arts Building Previous Next
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 894
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 1:55 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This building is being looked at for renovations.
Here are a few pix of it. LOC/WSU/UofM
Wide

FA1

FA2

FA3
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Wolverine
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Username: Wolverine

Post Number: 103
Registered: 04-2004
Posted From: 141.213.196.136
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 2:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

.... when really renovations would be quite difficult. The interior structure is near failure. And this isn't like some M-L bullschitt. The building interior is seriously ready to collapse. This photo doesn't do justice.

http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.g ne?id=87230762&size=l

http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.g ne?id=40370873&context=set-506 760&size=l

I walked through summer and found nearly everything slowly collapsing into the center of the building. We were really worried a wrong step could send an entire floor coming down.

Best of the luck to the developer.

(Message edited by wolverine on January 21, 2006)
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Psip
Member
Username: Psip

Post Number: 895
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 3:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thats sad to hear Wolverine.
Yikes!!!! i just saw your pictures.
This makes no sense, Illich wants to rehab 2 buildings that are falling apart, yet the UA which is in pretty good shape, he wants to unload.
Then again, I don't make 1.5 billion a year.
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Huggybear
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Username: Huggybear

Post Number: 133
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 68.250.40.40
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 3:05 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How can I help you?

I want more life, F-cker!

Not an easy thing to do.

Have you tried interior demolion combined with internal structure?

We tried that, but the the subject collapsed before the metal beams were in place.

How about facade stabilization combined with a new structure?

We had setting and again there was a collapse. You were made as well as we could make you.

But not to last?

The candle that burns twice as bright burns twice as fast. And you have burned so brightly, Fine Arts.

I have done... questionable things.

But also wonderful things. Revel in your time.

(Fade out to screams and the sound of interior collapse)
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Psip
Member
Username: Psip

Post Number: 896
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 3:22 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anyone have any idea when this building was built? it looks turn of the century. And with the construction techniques, it could be older.
Could this be the oldest building left here?
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Toybreaker
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Username: Toybreaker

Post Number: 25
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.220.69.189
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 3:48 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great pix Wolverine, thanks for letting us take a peek, I've never been inside there.
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Psip
Member
Username: Psip

Post Number: 897
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 4:13 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.detroityes.com/down town/34adams.htm
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Kathleen
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Username: Kathleen

Post Number: 1126
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.14.122.57
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 10:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Fine Arts Building was designed by Louis Kamper and opened in 1908. It was built for Hugo Scherer to accommodate the fine arts trade in Detroit. (Kamper had already designed a Lakeshore Drive house in Grosse Pointe for Scherer in 1898.)

According to a Detroit Free Press article dated April 20, 1906, among the expected tenants were the George R. Angell Co with an art gallery for exhibitions, C.M. Hayes & Co. photographers, the Gies Art School, and the Vinton Co.'s decorative arts department.
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Huggybear
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Username: Huggybear

Post Number: 134
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 68.250.40.40
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 11:57 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Seriously, if it proves to be unrecoverable, it will be due to its inherent design - wood crossmembers.

I know hindsight is 20/20 - but what was Louis Kamper smoking when he designed this - as far as I know, all-steel (or cement) was the norm, even for buildings of that size, by the late 19th century. Maybe the idea was soundproofing. Maybe it was cheaper that way.

It's not fair to say that LK had to design a building whose interior structure needed to stand up to the elements - but even in the early 1900s he would have known about dry rot and termites - so he had to have known about *some* floor failure possibility.
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Aiw
Member
Username: Aiw

Post Number: 5247
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.156.93.225
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 12:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a novel idea... Demolish to the rear, and build new behind the original facade.....

Naaaah, why preserve continuity in the streetscape?
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Detroitduo
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Username: Detroitduo

Post Number: 445
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 84.156.21.58
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 12:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cost, my friend. That's what it all boils down to. With enough money, anything is possible.
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Barnesfoto
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Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 1644
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 216.203.223.102
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 1:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wow, great photos, W.
How sad. Downtown LA has a similar building, also called the Fine Arts building, with a similar history, except that it was restored about 15 years ago.
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Sknutson
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Username: Sknutson

Post Number: 420
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 64.139.1.36
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 2:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I long for the days of Chop Houses with dancing.
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Matt_the_deuce
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Username: Matt_the_deuce

Post Number: 445
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.14.248.252
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 3:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Saving the facade would be costly but well worth it if possible. I happened upon this example in Liverpool last year.

pic

pic
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Matt_the_deuce
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Username: Matt_the_deuce

Post Number: 446
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.14.248.252
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 3:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

sorry for the duplicates
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Aiw
Member
Username: Aiw

Post Number: 5248
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.156.93.225
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 4:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How about this parking garage going up in Ottawa?

All the storefront facades are being preserved, and incorporated into the new construction.

Sadly this requires vision, and the vast majority of residents around here don't care about this type of project, so devellopers don't propose/do it.

sparks street
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Panson
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Username: Panson

Post Number: 772
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 4:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've got tons of pics of this in stuff in D.C. The church I attended - St. Matthew's Cathedral - saved the old facades of their adjacent 3 to 4 story townhomes without using temporary steel frame.

They kept a small portion of the front of the building - 5' to 10', maybe - which supported the facade. Construction of a new concrete framed building went on behind it where the facade was then attached to the new structure. Minimal added cost there. Character of the block maintained, brand new Class A office space added, and St. Matthew's got some badly needed funds which were used the update the 100-yr old cathedral. Win, Win, and Win!
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Dialh4hipster
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Username: Dialh4hipster

Post Number: 1342
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.250.205.35
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 4:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey wow, I used to live close to there Panson. When did this happen?
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Panson
Member
Username: Panson

Post Number: 774
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 6:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

During '03 & '04. Most were abandoned prior to construction. They look great, so does St. Matthew's. You can walk by them now and not even know they're "new". Ihave pics but I'm a tech retard and don't know how to shrink the file size.
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Dialh4hipster
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Username: Dialh4hipster

Post Number: 1343
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.250.205.35
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 8:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cool news. I don't think the market around there was strong enough to support a facade-saving construction project like that when I lived there (91-95). That area just blew my mind the last time I went back - it was cool before but now it's just so ... pulled together.

Back in the day, 16th St was as far east as you went but now it's really luxe. Dabirch knows what I'm talking about. I guess it's just a testament to the restorative powers of gentrification!
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Mikem
Member
Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2316
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 8:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

San Francisco, for a new H&M:

SFO
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Eric
Member
Username: Eric

Post Number: 300
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 35.11.158.84
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 9:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Sadly this requires vision, and the vast majority of residents around here don't care about this type of project, so devellopers don't propose/do it




You're being little delusional here this isn't about vision it's about the marketplace. Developers don't do this out of a love of old buildings they becuase it makes economic sense.

Now, Ilitch certainly has the money do this to the Fine Arts even if isn't profitable. But being businessman he his I don't see this happening so the real question is could a facadectomy project be profitable in Detroit?
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Andrew69
Member
Username: Andrew69

Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 198.111.39.17
Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 11:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In comparison to building a completely new building, when is saving a facade ever economical? I would think it's usually more of the result of a preservationist effort.
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Jasoncw
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Username: Jasoncw

Post Number: 87
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 148.61.248.29
Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 1:02 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It would be cool if Greenfeild Village started buying the facades. It would never happen but it would be cool.
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Downtown_dave
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Username: Downtown_dave

Post Number: 51
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 63.77.247.130
Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 12:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greenfield Village not too long ago purchased the old stables building on Belle Isle - built from sructure and architectural elements from Detroit's old public market on Cadillac Square. Their plan at one time was to create a farmers market facility in the village, akin to the building's origins. Siting and most likely economics seem to be issues preventing completion, but for now cast iron truss elements and other pieces are in storage. I'm sure they will figure it out. Facades for museums are great, but an economic use is needed - and better.
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Rsa
Member
Username: Rsa

Post Number: 759
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.227.207.84
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 12:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

rest assured, saving the facade with a new structure behind is under study right now.
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Mplsryan
Member
Username: Mplsryan

Post Number: 122
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 24.26.164.215
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 6:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

FAcade preservation in Minneapolis-

http://www.lileks.com/mpls/tho rpe/merch4.html

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