  Detroitman Member Username: Detroitman Post Number: 894 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 216.78.36.220 |
Pricey new Cass Tech already needs fixes $127-million Detroit school requires 24-hour engineers January 25, 2006 BY CHASTITY PRATT FREE PRESS EDUCATION WRITER http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=2006601250306 | ||
Mcpd1300 Member Username: Mcpd1300 Post Number: 32 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 68.42.174.123 |
Good article... it's not uncommon for new buildings to experience major growing pains... you can only plan ahead so much... you learn a lot when the building is in actual use. I am fairly confident that DPS will get the school under control after it's first year in operation... Although the city code requiring 24 hour engineers monitoring an HVAC system is a bit absurd... | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1164 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.31 |
Knowing the track record of DPS, I wouldn't be anywhere near confident that they'll get things under control. The majority of these problems will likely be like this for another 88 years: football field too small, swiming pool too small, etc. It's a damn shame we foot the bill for such incompetence. | ||
Boshna Member Username: Boshna Post Number: 116 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 141.213.128.170 |
I love the quote about the old building being an "energy-sucking dinosaur". Juicy diction, albeit a strange mixed metaphor. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2302 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 199.74.87.131 |
It seems like my fears came true: construction people built these new schools (PSA and Cass Tech) cheaply. Bvos: BLAME BURNLEY. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1004 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.42.251.225 |
Now that jjaba is back home from the Dominican Republic, his obligation is to hop on the Dexter bus, and get his well- tanned hide down to his dear old alma-mater and get the place up to code. The Free Press article says that not only is the football field unplayable, the..."state-of-the-art printing shop {is} unusable". Although neither his name nor picture are mentioned/shown on page 6A with other "famous graduates" ( DeLorean, Kwame, Diana Ross, Lily Tomlin, etc.), I know he has already contacted many of them and has formed a crisis committeee to get CTHS up and running. What a true manifestation of civic pride. A collection during halftime at the Super Bowl might get things going. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1165 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.39 |
Ltroivia, The problems at the new Cass go well beyond Burnley. These sorts of situations have existed long before Burnley and likely will exist for years after him. It's more of an issue of historic organizational incompetence and red-tape that caused this. The DPS folks who worked on the capital improvement projects were around way before Burnley and are still there. Why didn't they insist on making sure obviously wrong things (football field, swimming pool) were correct before the first shovel went in the ground? If anything the money would still be sitting around if it wasn't for Burnley. I'd rather have a new Cass, Renaissance, Fine Arts, etc. that are 95% functional than what we had before Burnley. I'm not saying Burnley was perfect or a savior, but he deserves more credit than he's getting. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 2955 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Thanks Detroitman for the excelent article about jjaba's alma mater. For some reason, jjaba's name was left off the list of rich and famous alums in the FREE PRESS article. jjaba is contacting his lawyer, the infamous The Rock, to file an editorial. Usual fees are paid. jjaba graduated from that very Printing Curriculum in 1959. If the new school can't run a print shop, jjaba is ready to teach them to hand set type and run the platen presses in the old building. jjaba can also crank up the old Kelly and those Chandler and Price hand-feeders. Unlike his Grosse Pointe, where a few phone calls yield just about anything the kids need, Detroit needs every citizens' taxes to build a couple of schools. Cass Tech. rises from the legacy of its past. jjaba is working on a scheme to find another 5 yards on the football field so the SuperBowl teams can practice there before the big game. jjaba, CT Class of '59 on the Grand River feeder bus. | ||
Wirt Member Username: Wirt Post Number: 10 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 64.243.32.9 |
regarding the football field and pool.. my understanding was that the field was built according to the dimensions required by the national standards. It was probably due to the tight site that a running track around the field would not fit (giving it more space). It seems that the field was not properly graded and maintained (ruts, etc.). The bleachers were never properly built (bolts coming loose?). I've never heard of anything wrong with the new pool. It also seemed like it took a long time to finish that project. Otherwise, I think it's a great school! | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2222 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.144.118.89 |
Ltorivia485, how about some blame for Jenkins Construction, whom are known for shody work? Unfortunately, they are also a Black-owned business. How about asking when we're going to stop taking advantage of our own? | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2304 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 129.105.107.200 |
Metro, the Burnley administration did not have to go with Jenkins Construction, but they did so anyways. DPS is known for having no-bid contracts. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2305 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 129.105.107.200 |
Bvos, Burnely doesn't deserve any recognition at all. If you were an employee of DPS, the majority will say that he was terrible. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2223 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.144.118.89 |
Ltorivia, on the contrary, there were bids for the school projects. Given the demographics and politics of Detroit, "minority" contractors often receive (additional) preferential treatment. Some of the contractors (such as Jenkins) use that to their full advantage. So yes, they "did have to go with" Jenkins. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 2956 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Jenkins, Schmenkins, get the damn thing fixed. jjaba, CT Alum. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 2338 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.202.227.12 |
Lt give it up while you can before you get accused of posting erroneous and misleading information... You know Metro is 'all seeing...all knowing'... | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2225 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.144.118.89 |
Detroit "Flossin" strikes again... Tell everyone again about..."Eisenhower was a combat vet"..."The Gulf War POW Spicher was promptly returned to US custody"...trying to back up Rasputin's claim that "Congress awarded him a Purple Heart"..."The US shot down Iraqi fighters that were firing on them after the Gulf War"...and on and on Posting erroneous information indeed! | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1166 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.39 |
Lt, I do work for the DPS and the majority of folks I know are rather indiferent about him. They recongize he brought a lot of administrative streamlining to the system (as did the replacement board) but he wasn't able to fix everything that could have and should have been fixed. Cass (and the rest of the bond money) was all bid out. Cass definately wasn't a no-bid contract. A contract that large would be impossible to send through as a no-bid item. Having said that it has been pointed out that Jenkins was virtually guaranteed the job with the way the scoring system worked. Unfortunately it didn't matter enough that the job was done right, just that it was done by the right color business owner (we're not even getting into the Detroit owned/residing aspect of things). Jenkins has a terrible track record but those in black leadership in the city feel a great deal of presure, both in front of and behind the scenes, to use them since they're the only major black contractor in the city. The pool issue I speak of is that the new pool is deficient in size according to the MI High School Athletic Assoc. Apparently they are trying to work out some sort of arrangement or exemption to try and get the thing OKed for competition in its current state. Lt, please have some firsthand knowledge or at least reputable sources before you start talking about things. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 2340 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.202.227.12 |
There is an easy way to prove my erroneous information Metro (or should I say KKKarl Jr.)... Prove me wrong or that I lied on anything. The burden of proof is on you... If you can't then STFU. Flat out... | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2227 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.144.118.89 |
On the contrary, Detroit "Flossin", most people can read the claims that you made and know right off the top of their head that they were false, and anyone else can easily verify that your claims were incorrect. Rather than playing games by trying to insist and bully your way to validity, the "burden of proof" is squarely on you... No if's, bottom line, you can't. So STFU. Flat out. Now back to "flossin"... | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 2341 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.202.227.12 |
Damn you seem to be the bigger crybaby about than anyone else. I havent seen another soul make any mention of any of your 'erroneous' claims... Care to explain that? But I understand...in order to make u feel better about your own lack of manhood, and self esteem, then you NEED someone to put down or make to look fake in order to feel better about your own insecurities... *sigh* What can I say? I guess Metro is a fraud and he continues to prove it. Now like I said, since you *think*(and I am using that term extremely loosely), that I have made some false claims... then disprove them. Once again, the burden of proof is on you... Oh and have the facts in black and white to prove it(I guess since links are blueish green they don't count but oh well)... If not then once again...well I already said it... | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2230 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.144.118.89 |
Detroit "Flossin", funny how you actually (previously) admitted to being wrong about one of your claims (about the POW), but in the interest of playing games and trying to make yourself look important (hence "flossin") you've gone back to trying to promote erroneous information. Way to go Mr. Integrity. Again, you can't prove any of your claims because none of them are accurate, therefore you don't feel the burden. So that's how it works, huh? | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 2342 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.202.227.12 |
SMDH Metro...keep trying... Tell you what... Imma back off for a min (but just one) and let your collect your thoughts, retrace the threads and try to find a story I told that you can punch a hole in. See unlike you, I can admit when I erred as in that one instance. But I think I am going to take this time and you stand up and be a man and see if you can do the same. But before you can do that you have to (once again) disprove anything that either I or anyother forumer here has claimed... Oh and try to use other words aside from falsified, and erroneous. I know how excited kids can get when they learn new words, but frankly I am tired of seeing them slip off the tip of your fingers now. Go grab the thesaurus and find a couple of new ones ok? | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2307 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 129.105.104.203 |
Bvos, Detroit Public Schools in 1999 had a $1.5 billion maintenance bond and $100 million in operational funding. During his tenure, DPS finished with a $200 million budget deficit. How can so many money turn up in the red? Why are these news school deteriorating so soon? Not only did he padded himself and his cronies (out-of-state private contractors such as Aramark) with money, the mission to educate children also became less important. With the "streamlining of administration," he also screwed up the salaries and pensions of DPS principals and assistant principals. The majority are making 1999 wages. Test scores did not increase during his tenure. Almost 40,000 students have since 1999 left the school district. The number of special education students has also doubled. C'mon! Don't be blind to reality. He was the worst thing Detroit Public Schools could have had to lead the district. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2232 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.228.56.223 |
Detroit "Flossin" funny how rather than get the accurate information (and discussion) out about the situation with Cass Tech, you attack me, and continue to try to promote yourself (floss) and the false claims that you have made in the past on several topics. That shows your true (lack) of honesty and integrity. Funny also how you are now once again admitting to "erring in that one instance" when a few minutes ago you had reverted back to claiming that you never posted anything erroneous in "debating" with me. Which story are you going to go with next? Speaking of standing up and being a man...as I pointed out to you before, unlike you, I strongly hesitate to question the (claims of) military service of anyone (especially on an internet forum). However, based on your completely false claims about every other topic, trying to back up the false claims of others, and inflated sense of ego (including comparing yourself to Generals such as Eisenhower, Franks, Patton, etc), your claims of service are highly dubious. You have proven yourself to be one of the biggest phonies on this board. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 2344 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.202.227.12 |
Metro let's try this one more time... *ahem* Aside from the one instance when i (now listen close) erred in a fact (read not a lie), then disprove my other supposed claims of factual inconsistencies, and outright lies... C'mon I am waiting.... Oh and since I am such a phony, why not ask one of the many forumers who havemet me in person and see how many of them thihnk I am phony... Damn it;s funny...the one I have never(and never want to cause he turns my stomach) met is the one claimin 'phony' the loudest... LMBAO @ his ignorant azz... So Metro one question:
That's all I want to know, really it is... | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2233 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.228.56.223 |
Detroit "Flossin", once again you like to play games. Insisting, bullying, ignoring, and changing the subject aren't going to suddenly make your erroneous claims valid. Once again I ask you to cite one credible source that would back up any of your claims. "Eisenhower was a combat vet"..."Gen Franks served in combat on the ground in Iraq"..."The US pilots that were shot at in the no-fly zone returned fire and shot down Iraqi jets"...trying to backup Rasputin's "Congress awarding the Purple Heart"...and on and on Any of them. Take your pick. Then you might want to explain why you insist on personally attacking someone for simply correcting the inaccurate points that you made. Ahem...I'm waiting... | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1167 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.217.81.202 |
Lt, How do you know the same thing wouldn't have happened under another CEO/Superintendent? I'm not speaking to Aramark (which has terrible food and terrible service) but the budget $s, loss of students, poor performance, etc. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2314 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 199.74.87.131 |
Bvos, that is a rhetorical question that I refuse to respond. The bottom line is that Burnley single-handedly (as well as the State legislature) were involved in the destruction of Detroit Public Schools. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2245 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.248.14.148 |
Ltorivia, you 'forgot' very important factors such as crime, massive population loss, poor economic conditions, etc. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2316 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 199.74.87.131 |
And Metro, you don't lose 40,000 students in less than 5 years. That goes beyond economic and social logic unless Detroit was Baghdad. Remember, Detroit has always been in decline since 1950. So your "crime" argument is moot. | ||
Nellonfury Member Username: Nellonfury Post Number: 74 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 68.43.156.135 |
Is the city is planing to tear down the old Cass Tech? | ||
Dag Member Username: Dag Post Number: 172 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.241.254.67 |
I don't care. Cass Tech is worth the money and the upkeep is worht the money as well. There will be troubles at first but as a showpiece to the city I am more than willing to put mymoney where my mouth is. | ||
Rasputin Member Username: Rasputin Post Number: 3432 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.73.192.149 |
How about blaming Mike Duggan, Helmut F. Hendrix, & and bobble-head Dennis Archer for stealing the 1.5 billion capital-improvement bond money and farming/paying it out to white ex-urban and out-of-state contractors that McNamara needed to pay back, while obtaining Black figure-head Archer supporters as construction mgr. and school super to cover their asses. Cass isn't the only school with the same capital-improvement rehab/construction problems ..... leaky roofs, peeling paint, etc. .... and the money is gone!! KTVNT was absolutely correct on the issue. High costs ... shoddy work!! The real THEFT of Detroit municipal dollars!! Black-atcha ..... | ||
Sumotect Member Username: Sumotect Post Number: 161 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 64.243.32.9 |
I agree with you Dag. The kids of this town deserve the very best. That article in the freep was some of the sloppyest yellow journalism I have ever seen. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2251 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.144.95.130 |
Ltorivia, you're joking right? You "lose 40,000 students in less than 5 years" when you take into account all factors (at the very, very bottom of the list would be who the superintendent was). Economic and social factors are at the very heart of the matter. Surrounding city losing 50-60k population during that time...competition from private/charter schools...drop-out rates...surrounding economic conditions of the city, surrounding crime issues of the city...and on and on | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2318 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 199.74.87.131 |
Metro, I suggest you read Raspution's post above one more time: Cass isn't the only school with the same capital-improvement rehab/construction problems ..... leaky roofs, peeling paint, etc. .... and the money is gone!! KTVNT was absolutely correct on the issue. High costs ... shoddy work!! The real THEFT of Detroit municipal dollars!! In addition: when you had a new school administration with a state-mandated "puppet" school board who place educating children last on their priority list, privatized all school jobs to out-of-state and sleezy contractors, and built shoddy schools, you will see families taking their chidren out of Detroit Public Schools. Do you want to know where that 40,000 went? More than half are in charter schools that have questionable practices and greedy leaders too. | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 3290 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.73.32.221 |
Typical Hendrix and the likes of his supporters bull shit to try and blame a Black owned business for the things above. Also, now that Hendrix' experiment in power, aka the reform board, has failed folks like him are trying to blame DPS for the mistakes of the reform board and the SEPERATE company which spent the bond money. A company which answered to the State Treasurer and Burnley. Lets also not forget that Burnley completey changed the development plans Adamany had put together. Finally, for the Helmut supporter above, there are those who design buildings and those who build them based on those designs. http://www.tmp-architecture.co m/work/work.asp?projectid=24 Not a Detroit based company. Not Black owned. Why is the media not questioning them for shoddy work or the cost over runs? I'll betcha they take that page off their site soon. | ||
Rasputin Member Username: Rasputin Post Number: 3441 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.73.192.149 |
Brian, if your suggestion was taken and used; that "white elephant" would be torn down the next day ..... Go figure! I agree, NO ONE wants to put money into a failed venture, especially when the monied folk have already decided on 3 NEW buildings ..... maybe these cry-babies will come up with the cash, eh? Black-atcha ..... singing a Tina Turner hit, "What's Love Got to Do With IT?" and roflmbao | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 2961 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Not only is the football field the onliest 95 yard field in high school, the runout areas are so slim, the players are in danger of running into the bleachers. It's real hard to field a team and an opponent on a field like that. Cass Tech. never did have a home field. Now we know why. Too bad they didn't give the job to a few good drafting students who could size up a football field properly. jjaba, CT Class of '59. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2254 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.144.81.200 |
Ltorivia485, citing a non-credible "source" such as Rasputin isn't exactly helping your argument. | ||
Sumotect Member Username: Sumotect Post Number: 163 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 64.243.32.9 |
FEY (For Everyone's Information) The design responsibility for Cass Tech is a joint venture TMP/TYJT http://www.tyjt.com/cass.htm I believe it to to be an example of very effective collaboration between highly experienced school planners, and highly experienced Detroit based engineers. It is the way things GET DONE in Detroit. I happen to know that every race you could possiblity imagine contributed to this project and benifited from it as well. All of it to the benifit of the young people of this city, and the region as a whole. Also, There is money to complete the building in the form of retainage held from the contractors draw to complete these smaller items. Once again let me restate what a piss poor article it was that the Detroit Free Press published. It will be at least one hundred years before the new Cass Tech becomes a "Fabulous Ruin" | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 3293 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.37.84.192 |
The engineers did not provide the design that caused the now revealed problems for the site. Just like the construction company did not build the site incorrectly. They also followed the design by TMP. |
