  Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 691 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 4.229.27.81 |
Heyo - I wrote a new article for RealDetroitWeekly. They asked me to write about 5 buildings that I thought were endangered and most deserving of being saved. They also asked that it not be any of the usual infamous "detroit ruins", i.e. Broderick, UA, etc. I did insist that Lee Plaza be included, even if its one of the more famous ones, because of recent events. This is what I came up with: http://www.realdetroitweekly.c om/article_1031.shtml Note that I did give shout outs to my mentor Lowell and a couple of Dyes pals in here - credit where credit is due. Just my version of "Detroit Love". The paper version will be out later today. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6524 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.20 |
Looks like a pretty goo dlist. Isn't it already set that the Arts and Crafts building and Engine works are coming down? I wish someone with money could step up and help the Trumbell Church. It seems like the roof detail crumbles more every day. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1505 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.164.127 |
No shout outs to your peeps at HFD. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 692 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 4.229.27.81 |
It aint over til its over, but yeah, thats why they are endangered. | ||
Registeredguest Member Username: Registeredguest Post Number: 346 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.233.6.164 |
Maybe they're endangered b/c there is no market to renovate them. And maybe there is no market, because there are not enough people willing to make the move to the city; especially in these areas. It's so easy to point out the ruins from the comfort of one's home out of Detroit proper. For those of us who live here day in and day out, I say tear 'em down. They are nothing but fodder for the pseudo arts/blog crowd to sling to their cronies. And their cronies eat it up. Oh those poor buildings. We have to save them from those aweful, demolition crazy Detroiters. If you want to make a difference - and make a statement, then move here; get your friends to move here; get your cronies at Real Detroit Weekly to move their offices here and create that market to rehab them. Hey, maybe RDW could relocate their office into the Trumbell Ave. church? Or maybe a partnership with the Arts Center Music school? Nah. That would be too much work. That would be too far from all the sleezy events in RO and Ferndale that graces its pages every other week... | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 693 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 4.229.27.81 |
Hm..... Nasty. | ||
Hunchentoot Member Username: Hunchentoot Post Number: 19 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 68.61.161.39 |
As a suburban member of the pseudo-blog crowd (and living in the house in which I grew up, where I intend to stay), I must say that I've softened to the idea of certain demolitions. I recently graduated from WSU and I have very mixed feelings about their plans. They have changed their focus to making the school more residential, which is very good, but they are making numerous ham-fisted decisions. The demolition of Chatsworth Annex was apparently done so that students could play volleyball for three months out of the year. Forest Apartments and the Library Annex will not be missed and those as parking would be shunned by few, so why the Music School? It's one of the things that makes the campus interesting in the first place. It surely isn't the shit-ass new residential towers that caused me to stick around. | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 784 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 198.208.159.18 |
dear registered guest person: I live in the city and would like to see these buidings and their history preserved, especially since the popular replacement for historic properties these days is a parking lot. HALF THE DAMN CITY is a parking lot already! If I wanted to live in a place without any history or characther I'd live on big beaver road in downtown troy! I'd buy the school of arts and crafts in a sec if i had the cash, regardless of its state (Message edited by gravitymachine on January 25, 2006) | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6526 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.20 |
I also live here day in and day out and say preserve them when it makes sense. Some of the buildings above could make sense. | ||
Hockey_player Member Username: Hockey_player Post Number: 189 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 207.148.213.218 |
I live here too, and part of the appeal of living in a city like Detroit is the architecture not found in the suburbs. You tear those down, and it gives one less reason for people to move here. If the landscape is the same as the suburbs, full of strip malls and parking lots, why would anyone opt to live where taxes and crime are higher and services are worse? Seems like a stupid contradiction to say "tear 'em down" and then expect people to want to move here if there's nothing left to make Detroit different than its surroundings. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 694 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 4.229.123.126 |
I too can see why certain buildings can not be saved, and that you can not save them all. I agree with Lowells strong statement (Lowell: hope I wasnt out of line directly quoting you) about saving the best of the best. Like many here, I wish to see Detroit preserved and doing well. I selected practical choices, as well as emotional choices for what I would save. If more people from "outside of detroit proper" -from Harper Woods or Grosse Pointe on the eastside to Farmington Hills or Northville on the westside- cared so much about Detroit and its history and future, it could only be a good thing. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 21 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 129.9.163.234 |
Great list--I wouldn't call the Lee Plaza Art Deco though. That term is thrown around loosely to describe any building built between 1920 and 1941-2. I would classify the Lee as Italian renaissance. The true Art Deco style is characterized by bold geometric forms, often decorated with stylized floral relief work. The interior of the Royal Oak theatre is a prime example of true art deco. Art Modern is another style often mis labeled as art deco. Art modern is the streamlined deco, flowing lines more than sharp geometric shapes. The former Hughes and Hatcher building at Woodward and Montcalm (now totally re-muddled into the Hockeytown cafe/city theater) was a prime example of art modern. Most of the 1920's buildings in Detroit were styled after a particular established european style, French and Italian renaissence being the most popular. I recall the Fox theatre being described as "art deco" once. That's about the farthest stretch yet. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 803 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 141.216.1.4 |
Registeredguest, Pray tell if no one wants to move into these area then why is Brush Park (location of Arts and Crafts building) seeing the investment it is? I don't think they would be building there if no one wanted to live there. Plus the whole reason it is coming down is for parking for the soon to be renovated Crystal Ballroom. Lets not paint with such a broad brush. | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 1140 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 140.244.107.151 |
Great selections, Mauser!! Several of these sites are integral to the social, artistic, and industrial heritage of our city and, as such, are in my opinion worth saving and worth restoring and using. Thanks!! P.S. Henry Ford was buried from the Wm. Hamilton Funeral Chapel (now the Art Centre Music School). | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 1974 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 130.132.177.245 |
the art center music school provided practice space to a large number of Detroit bands over the years. imo the time to save the A&C and that dry dock building passed long ago: The A&C was doomed years ago when CCS (unbelievably) sloughed off its past. That dry dock building was doomed from the day it was built, Detroit industrial culture has now and has always been about disposability and consumption NOT preservation. (Even Henry Ford hisself made HIS museum NOT as much about the world HE created but instead about the world as he imagined disappeared a generation or two before he did his thing.) | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 9801 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.228 |
dfunk, Thanks for the props, if not for the emails I recieved it would have slipped right under my radar. | ||
Hunchentoot Member Username: Hunchentoot Post Number: 20 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 68.61.161.39 |
Back to where-people-live-and-where-th ey-put-their-offices, it IS dumb that Real Detroit Weekly is not in the city proper. If it just said "Detroit" -- OK, I'll give it a pass. but it is modified by "Real". REAL! How about all of Southeast Michigan is just called "Detroitland" from now on? It won't be defined by political boundaries, so if you want to count Howell as a part of it this week but not next week, then sure, fine. Maybe even Toledo sometimes. Real Detroitland Weekly | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 785 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 198.208.159.18 |
RD is definitaly not "keeping it authentic" ;) | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6529 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.20 |
So you mean that the 'real Detroit' isn't a bunch of annoying pictures of annoying club people mixed in with ads for trasnvestite strippers and the occasional boo Detroit article. Damn, that changes my whole perspective of Detroit. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1506 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.164.127 |
Does anyone in here know the guy that started Real Detroit, where he is from, where he grew up, and what he thinks about the city of Detroit. My guess like most fucking subjects you don't have a fucking clue and you are all making assumption. Do a little research maybe e-mail him. He will respond to you. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6530 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.20 |
I know people on the staff and I believe that I know who you are talking about. To be honest I get a feel that the bar scene is acceptable to them and anything beyond that is just a burden. That is just my impression of a decent number of conversations with J(rest of name left blank) and others on the staff. | ||
Hunchentoot Member Username: Hunchentoot Post Number: 21 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 68.61.161.39 |
I'm not a part of Real Detroit's audience, that's not a critique of its content or intentions (in fact the magazine has been kind to me more than once). ...but it does say "Real" right in the title. :D | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 695 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 4.229.123.240 |
56packman - I agree about your architectual assessment of LeePlaza. I also included the "Mediterreanian influence" line in there, but it was cut out. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1330 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
Maybe if we just got a bunch of freakin' shithead taggers to run around and create "art" on these properties, and then we got some jackass to take a bunch of pictures of the vandalism and make a website out of glorifying them, and then we got a bunch of people to kiss the guys ass because he was on NPR and in a POS suburban rag, then maybe these buildings could be miracuously saved. Or maybe they should just be torn down or left to further rot because nobody has the combined vision and capital to save them. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1508 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.164.127 |
Dabirch, I never knew you had it in you. | ||
Matt_the_deuce Member Username: Matt_the_deuce Post Number: 459 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.248.252 |
Isn't the old portion of the Globe supposed to be saved and incorporated into a visitor's center for the new state park? | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1509 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.164.127 |
That is the plan. | ||
Registeredguest Member Username: Registeredguest Post Number: 347 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.217.98.130 |
Right on Dabrich. And how many of these pseudo-arts/bloggers/preservat ionists would be willing to pay the $300(+)/square foot renovation costs to live in a renovated Lee Plaza? I can see it now: "oh, I cannot afford it, and it is too dangerous and the auto insurance costs so much and that Kwame, what a crook, he is destroying our buildings and he is hiring strippers and he is just so crooked and the schools are so bad - but the rich people who can afford it should move there." Or how many have donated to the Arts Center Music School; albiet attend a fundraiser there? How many have considered sending their kids to the Arts Center Music School? Moreover, how many have noticed the substantial renovations occurring there over the past year? For those of us Detroiters working in the community to make a difference, to change government and to create demand for an urban housing market - this ruins crap without substance is merely that, crap. As I said - it is easy to post messages, take pictures and get them posted in some free newspaper. And it is easy to create a list of the 5 most endangered buildings, especially in a city with so many underused historical structures. Yet, so many seem to eat it up like mannah from heaven. What we need is less meaningless talk, less "Photo Du Jours," less crappy blogs highlighting abandonment and decay, less "help me identify this mystery building;" less unfounded rumors; less naked self promotion and more action. There's some houses for sale in Woodbridge, go buy one, rehab it, create a community organization to work with the Trumbell Ave Church to restore it. Take some classes at the Arts Center Music School. Attend a recital. Donate some money At least post a link (http://comnet.org/acms/) in your article. Or take pictures, tag some schitt and self promote. Back to work. Have fun tearing this post to shreds. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1510 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.164.127 |
Nicely done, guest. | ||
Hunchentoot Member Username: Hunchentoot Post Number: 23 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 68.61.161.39 |
I have some software I can donate to the Music School, but only if they have a mac on which to run it. | ||
Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism Post Number: 352 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.215.30.34 |
I can agree with some of what RG said above. In the end, it always comes down to ..... MONEY ! Not much can change without it. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6531 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.20 |
Money and/or a willingness to be a part of the solution. I do like the Woodbridge metion. Great deal for your money, seemingly (from the little I know) nice community coming together. Getting a nice home for the money with some work. participating in some communitiy groups and supporting your part of Detroit doesn't take developer type of money. Great post RG. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 45 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 67.107.47.65 |
Websites and articles serve the purpose of raising awareness which can lead to further involvement. Also it seems like a number of folks here are doing the things you describe. Vinton project ring any bells? | ||
Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism Post Number: 353 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.215.30.34 |
https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/10041/61526.html?1137986 693 Yes, the Vinton project which forumers like Ndavies, Histeric and a few others have spearheaded are exactly the type of initiative to be proud of. However, willingness to participate in something like this is hardly free of charge. Notice that Histeric mentioned in the above link - $$$ and good FICO score. The Woodbridge neighborhood is excellent, but it still costs money. In short, Detroit needs more people with moolah ! | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6532 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.20 |
Darwin - I agree to an extent. I doubt however that the loads of people that 'wished' Detroit would improve can't afford a house in Woodbridge. If not there there are many areas where they can get a good deal on a home and become part of their community and community groups. All of the people I know that rave about what Detroit can be while living in the burbs have homes that are worth as much or more than mine. These are the people that can make a difference. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 696 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 4.229.54.218 |
I do hundreds of hours of volounteer work for AMCS and worked with them researching the establishment and buildings. I spent two weeks at Burton researching their current and past locations. I spent months developing their upcoming website that would have cost them thousands of dollars from a design company. I fronted the money for domain registration and hosting. I have never accepted anything in return other than a free lunch from a nice lady on the Board of Deirectors. I also donated hundreds of photos I shot of the interiors and the exteriors of those buildings for insurance purposes. I spent hours tracking down the very friendly folks at William Hamilton Company to get more information for ACMS so they could use it to solicit grants for the rennovations the property desperately needs. I also was able to find out the identity of the artist who created the "ages of man" reliefs that adorn the funerary chapel. I located an old photograph of the buildings in pristine condition that is essential for reconstruction. So Registered Guest can blather all he wants from over on the Boulevard about what he thinks, but I need to know what hes done lately to help out any important Detroit institutions. As far as graffiti, I was persuaded by the more rational and intelligent members of the Detroityes community to take those images off of my website. That was wrong and I admitted it and removed the images. Thankfully they talked to me in an intelligent manner, rather than the ignorant and rabid babbling displayed by some here on this thread. Hey, but we are off topic arent we. I am suprised by that. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 697 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 4.229.54.218 |
BTW - its ART Center Music School - named for its former location in the Art Centre neighborhood. Not "Arts". You also listed the old website - I didnt write in the new one because it isnt finished yet. http://artcentermusicschool.co m/ | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 698 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 4.229.54.218 |
BTW its TRUMBULL Avenue Church. I donated to the stained glass fund and also donated the photos I took of their sanctuary for restoration and insurance purposes. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 135 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Rg's right, along with his supporters. Personal money talks and BS walks. Governmental (taxpayers) money doesn't count. That amounts to outright confiscation for most taxpayers. For others, putting in "Community Service" is OK, but that's no replacement for direct financial involvement. Cheerleading from the sidelines doesn't score or prevent many field goals or TDs. Maybe some equate volunteering with "Catholic Guilt," - a loose term for feeling bad about being well-off. | ||
Broken_main Member Username: Broken_main Post Number: 766 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.222.11.226 |
Good write, Mauser. I,too, would buy any one of those building(and many others as well) if I had the money, in a heartbeat. People fail to realize that some of these buildings are gems, and seem to think that these are eyesores. I am going to go out there and say this. Some of these same buildings were once occupied by people that fleed this city. So to have some suburbanite say that the best thing for these buildings is to tear them down, it makes me wonder why they are so concerned. Just stay out there in the comfort of your big glassy buildings and and enjoy your little paper mache downtowns out there. The city of Detroit is making a comeback..either be a part of the solution or be a part of the problem. If you choose the latter then stay out!! | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6533 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 216.203.223.109 |
Mauser - On behalf of myself and probably most Detroiters - your volunteer efforts are greatly appreciated and in fact is much more than many Detroiters do for their own community. Thank You. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 699 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 4.229.69.164 |
Damn Jt1 - that actually means a lot. I dont usually yell about the work I do for various places in Detroit, but to be attacked in this manner is out of line. After our earlier arguments I hope Ive come around a bit and we can see eye to eye on more things. Still waiting for RealGuests list of good deeds- or an apology. As for Lyard and the comment "For others, putting in "Community Service" is OK" - that is full of shit. The contributions I made to ACMS have a tangible dollar value that they could not otherwise afford. Time is in fact money for certain services. I am far from being a wealthy person, and my family is making a sacrifice when I am in the City working for free for hours and weeks and months to try to help save certain places. My wife commented last night at the audacity of several posters on this thread "why would we WANT to move back to the City with raving assholes like that down there?" Amen to that - some of you folks are helping to keep people out of the City with your ignorant visciousness. Rave on. | ||
Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism Post Number: 355 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.209.187.90 |
In defense of Andrew and Randy, I don't think that the Photo du Jours and the DetroitFunk blog can be considered in the same vein as what Registeredguest is complaining about. Registeredguest wants people to contribute money to the city, fair enough. Buying a property in Woodbridge and doing rehab work - we're talking $40,000-$60,000 in acquisition costs and then another $10,000-$15,000 in rehab costs depending on whether the property is distress. Well, $50,000-$75,000 on loans, plus ongoing carrying costs such as interests, insurance, utilities and taxes ..... I don't believe it is for everybody who loves and cares for Detroit. As pointed out above, working free for the ACMS through his skills in photography comes with value too. Andrew and Randy are both great photographers, so they contribute in their form of art. Lowell, as an artist, also contributes to Detroit in the form of his art. Others who are more handy or have the monetary capital, such as developer Joel Landy, Sean Harrington and so on, contributes in their own way. Of course, in order for major changes, everything ultimately ends at the mighty dollar. But then, it is not something everyone can do. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1332 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
Mauser -- I will offer up my apology right now. I guess speaking from a perception instead of facts can sometimes (most of the time) lead to an incorrect conclusion. Mea Culpa | ||
Broken_main Member Username: Broken_main Post Number: 781 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.222.11.226 |
Well Mauser, I most certainly support your committment to the Detroit and consider your contributions and time priceless. To be perfectly honest with your, I thought you Did live in the city. I don't know who registerdguest is and haven't seen much of him on this forum until today. I see he/she has been around much longer than me however. Personally, I thank you for you committment | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1334 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
Just to be clear, my apology was directed towards the support of vandals, which you have repudiated. As well as my own, harsh statements directed towards you that were not based in fact. My sentiment remains that same -- supporting vandals and bitching about ruins are antithetical. It just does not appear to apply towards you. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 700 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 4.229.51.193 |
Thanks so much for the clarifications. I am not afraid to take a beating when I deserve it, and I am not afraid to admit when I am wrong. I wish I could afford to live in the City, but right now we have a family commitment to the property we are rehabilitating now in Harper Woods. I was born in the city, educated there, lived there, met my wife while she lived there, often work there, and hope to return there where my family is from, and many are buried. Fate leads people on many paths, and that doesnt always afford the luxury of living where you want to. At least not in my case. In the meantime I try to do what I can with the love of history that was imparted on me by my professors at CCS. It is frustrating to no end to be hounded simply because I cant live in the city at this particular moment - by people who appear to do nothing more than snipe from an anonymous perch in a forum. Now, others on this forum have taken me to task on issues, but have every right to. While none of us would be considered friends, they are different to me because they contribute more to the city than I could ever dream. Eap and Histeric for example. I argue with them, but I respect them and I am listening when they talk. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1513 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.164.127 |
Mauser, I don't believe you get ripped on that much for not living in the city. I believe people got pissed that you didn’t live in the city but glorified the destruction of private property in a city. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 701 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 4.229.123.169 |
Merchangander - you can believe whatever you want. This thread is now a piece of shit. Yay ! Still waiting on Registered Guest to open his piehole again about what a fine citizen he is. Other than paying property tax - other than commenting on my site and calling me a "nigga" - lets hear it RG, you fine example of a Detroiter. /crickets...... Yeah okay. Good luck folks. |
