Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Royal Oak and Birmingham make own Super Bowl Plans Previous Next
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Spidergirl
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Username: Spidergirl

Post Number: 153
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 63.77.247.130
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 9:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Surprised?

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20060127/ENT01 /601270398/1033
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Itsjeff
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Username: Itsjeff

Post Number: 5433
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 208.27.203.125
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 10:36 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it's cute.
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Bobj
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Username: Bobj

Post Number: 388
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 65.221.183.120
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 10:59 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Royal Oak and Birmingham are really pretty well known as places to hang out from visitors around the country. That is from years of Downtown Detroit being a wasteland after 5:00 and to some extent even before 5:00.

I am not surprised, plus, many people will be staying out in OC anyway.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6540
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.20
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 11:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And the jack ass LBP refused to pitch in any money to assist with the Superbowl efforts because his County wouldn't see enough business from it.

I encourage anyone that pays taxes in Detroit (which is eating some SP costs) to avoid spending a single penny in OC for SB festivities.
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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 82
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 69.47.85.139
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 11:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

geez, build a fence around Detroit to keep 'em all in there ok? People are free to spend where they please
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Rustic
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Username: Rustic

Post Number: 1985
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 130.132.177.245
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 11:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

first a whitesnake reference in that nekkid woman on the challenger followup story and now

quote:

"Leather & Lace"
qualifies as the premier non-Super Bowl-related Super Bowl event. ... A special performance from 1980s rock band Loverboy will highlight the evening.


wtf?
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Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6541
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.20
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 11:41 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

geez, build a fence around Detroit to keep 'em all in there ok? People are free to spend where they please




I agree Miss Cleo. What irks me is that OC is more than happy to reap the financial benefit of the SB but when asked to assist with some costs of security, logistics, clean up, etc they flat out said that they will not see enough financial benefit to give a penny to the cause.

This isn't suburb vs. Detroit in my mind it is just frustrating that OC will reap a ton of economic impact without supporting the actual event with a penny. Had they offered to assist in any way shape or form I would say good for them and leave it at that.

Is OC helping in any way. Show me how they are and I will happily go on my way.
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Chris_rohn
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Username: Chris_rohn

Post Number: 171
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 68.77.160.147
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 12:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What I think is funny is that the event featuring clothing from Birmingham stores is being held at a hotel in Troy.
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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 83
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 69.47.85.139
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 12:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

but when OC wants to step in and help with school issues, the city being run into the ground etc, Detroit tells them to step off....so what? OC is supposed to help when Detroit deems it ok and step off the rest of the time and watch them flounder?
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6544
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.20
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 12:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

but when OC wants to step in and help with school issues, the city being run into the ground etc, Detroit tells them to step off




Name one time. Please, for the love of god name one time.

I have posed this question many times byt I always hear crickets after asking.

When has OC offered to help Detroit when it was not a better deal for OC? Name one instance OC has offered to help Detroit?

Just one, c'mon let's hear about this saintly county of yours and all of their good will efforts for the city.
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Pam
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Username: Pam

Post Number: 47
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 67.107.47.65
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 1:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This sounds like it was planned by these cities or businesses located there on their own. What does it have to do with L. Brooks or Oakland County in general? Didn't see his name mentioned in the article. He doesn't control every single thing that happens in the huge area of Oakland County.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6549
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.20
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 1:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

He doesn't control every single thing that happens in the huge area of Oakland County.




No but he speicifcally stated that OC will not support SB security, clean up, logistics, etc since OC will not see a financial impact.

Well, as we all know they will see a huge impact. In fact I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the economic benefit to OC is equivalent to that of Detroit.
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Pam
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Username: Pam

Post Number: 48
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 67.107.47.65
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 1:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

No but he speicifcally stated that OC will not support SB security, clean up, logistics, etc since OC will not see a financial impact.

Well, as we all know they will see a huge impact. In fact I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the economic benefit to OC is equivalent to that of Detroit




Ok, he's a jerk and he was wrong to say that but you were making it sound like he was planning these festivities in OC just to thumb his nose at downtown or something. It's just business people trying to cash in, no surprise there.

Not everybody that lives in OC supports LPB or hates downtown. (Yes I do live there and no I don't own a McMansion either)

(Message edited by Pam on January 27, 2006)
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6550
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.20
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 1:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

like he was planning these festivities in OC just to thumb his nose at downtown or something. It's just business people trying to cash in, no surprise there.




That is not what I meant. I have nothing against the bars, clubs, cities that are trying to get some extra cash from the SB. It is their right and it is the smart thing to do for their business and their cities.

My only issue is stemmed from LBPs flat out refusal to assist with any costs and claiming lack of benefit to OC. I won't fault the cities or business owners for using an event like the SB to their advantage.
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Jfried
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Username: Jfried

Post Number: 710
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.47.87.96
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 1:16 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

for jt1 -

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20060106/O PINION01/601060371/1007
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Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6570
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.2.148.15
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 1:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK let's see:

First of, look no further than his tone of what they are doing for Detroit.


quote:

Court Law Enforcement Management Information System. The countywide crime data-sharing network services our 43 police departments and has expanded to eight counties with more than 220 members. Detroit has had repeated invitations to join; we are awaiting Detroit's application.




I would like to hear more.


quote:

Automation Alley. In 1999, this brought together 43 high-tech Oakland County companies in an attempt to leverage our high-tech investment. Today Automation Alley operates in eight counties with more than 600 members. Detroit, Wayne and Macomb counties are members.




I would like to know more about how AA is funded and how companies are brought in and placed and what it does for other counties.


quote:

Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick's 2006 transition team. One of my top deputies, Deputy County Executive Gerald Poisson, is a member of the mayor's Committee on Transportation, looking for ways to improve regional transit between the city and the suburbs.


Detroit Area Regional Transportation Authority. The initial legislation creating DARTA was drafted in large measure by my office. Unfortunately, the legislation was vetoed by Gov. John Engler. We tried to resurrect DARTA through an intergovernmental agreement that the courts struck down.




You're kidding me right LBP. He cares about regional transit about as much as I care about getting shot. Tell me, in solid words what he is looking to achieve here.


quote:

Cobo Center. Since 1985, Oakland County has contributed $172 million in hotel/motel taxes and liquor sales taxes for Detroit's Cobo Center as our share of the bond payments required for the last expansion. The bonds will be finally paid off by 2015, and we will have paid by that time more than $256 million. When asked whether we would be willing to commit to an additional 30 years, we respectfully declined, saying we see no return on our investment for our taxpayers.




Voter approved and he is stretching the truth as the liquor tax funds under populated areas not Cobo. But nobody questions LBP when he stretches the truth to fit his point.


quote:

Oakland County's donor status. We send more than $3 billion of taxes to Lansing and get back less than $2 billion in goods and services. In other words, we leave approximately $1.2 billion on the table. That is cold hard cash that is spent around the state, mostly in Detroit.




A donor county sends more to Lansing. How does LBP know where all of the dollars are going beyond beyond OC donating. Again he is stretching the truth with assumptions. Much of the money from donor counties goes to infrastructure in under populated parts of the State but far be it from LBP to mention that.


The funny thing is when you read this it is obvious he is taking an us against them tone but that is always acceptable from LBP. What I love is how he can say what he wants and it is taken as gospel.

The offer for the Law Enforcement network sounds very positive but the rest is fluff. Paying on voter approved bonds? His claim of most of the 1.2 B, mostly going to Detroit is a little far fetched. I wonder if he takes into account the road dollars that are allocated to OC compared to other counties or does that not count.

(Message edited by jt1 on January 27, 2006)
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Dag
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Username: Dag

Post Number: 174
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.241.254.67
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 1:35 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know that this has largely been lost in some of the rhetoric from both sides but the Birmingham event will have the proceeds go to Think Detroit! which is a non-profit youth organization.

I know this is largely disjoint but I felt it at least bears mentioning.
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Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6571
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.2.148.15
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 1:41 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good to hear. Again, I hold no ill will towards the business and defintiely think efforts to support non-profits is great.

I just have issues with the lack of supporting the cities efforts with $1 of county funds. But hey, they have a coutdown until SB on the OC website.
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Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6572
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.2.148.20
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 1:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I also notice that LBP does not acknowledge that Kwame was also one of the people that wrote the legislation for DARTA, but its all about Brooks.
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Dag
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Username: Dag

Post Number: 175
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.241.254.67
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 2:00 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I tend to agree, but I also feel that this largely will be the status quo until the culture of leadership is altered within the surrounding counties and to some degree in the city.

I think things are changing faster now than they have in the last 20 years but it is just going to take time as there continues to be more reinvestment. LBP is not the problem only the face of the problem.
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Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6573
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.2.148.180
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 2:11 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Agreed - mentality within leadership of both city and suburbs must change.

One issue that I have is that if KK says something divisive he is vilified, if LBP says something divisive it is portrayed as good leadership.
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Dag
Member
Username: Dag

Post Number: 176
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.241.254.67
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 2:16 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Part of that I think is from the city-suburb dynamic and the way the have related over the past 15 years and the way they have not related.

The other part of it is a more subtle form of racism.

I know I just said the "r" word and now this thread will shortly become unreadable.
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Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6574
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.2.148.180
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 2:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What started DARTA:

HB 5467 of 2002 And who was the primary sponsor at the time. No other than KK but LBP seems to take some credit for it in his little article.
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Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6575
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.2.148.18
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 2:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dag - I agree both sides are at fault and part of it is due to the political process.

KK gets re-elected by asking people to vote against the 'white candidate'

LBP gets re-elected with his 'we can't let Detroit screw us' rallying call. I haven't heard him say a peep about the rate increases from Consumers or DTE but increases in water that are in line with inflation are an outrage and he rallies behind that shit.

When he uses the term that he doesn't claim to be th e'honky executive' we know his line of thought and political process.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1586
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 4.229.132.171
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 3:46 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jt1 give me a break.the man writes a public letter to a newspaper stating the county he is the exec of does indeed participate in regional cooperation and you argue with it even calling him a liar.

Prove he is lieing and only out for himself and OC jt1. Because what I see and fairly clearly is you plain don't like the lbp......and so you argue with almost every thing he cites.The difference is that he has enough credibility to write to a newspaper and state distinctively about how OC has partcipated in things.Your dislike of him is transparent jt1.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1587
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 4.229.132.171
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 3:54 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Btw I am fairly certain the national football league has a big hand in things going on in the suburbs because the city would not be able to handle everything........besides why shouldn't any city or town or suburb take advantage of the number of people coming to the area

A good example is transportation.There is no way Detroit has enough cabs/limos etc to handle the number of people.So the NFL has mandated that almost every bonded cab in S.E. Mi be allowed to pick up and drop off anywhere including Windsor.Or should those shit heads from the burbs be "forced" to "give back" to Detroit?

I find it mildy amusing that you are almost paranoid in your attempts to discredit Patterson.The fact is as I said on the Patterson thread is that he has done the job the voters wanted him to do; he continues to be elected and OC continues to do well.
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Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6576
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.2.149.23
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 1:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

CL - What do you think of his claims that the liquor tax goes to Cobo. That is not correct.

How about the DARTA legislation where the primary author was KK yet he implies that his office took the lead.

Those are both statements where he is stretching the truth. I think the expansion of AA and the offer for the law enforcement thing sounds promising.

My issue is that LBP's word is taken as gold even though there are inaccuracies in his letter while anything KK says is taken as a lie.

Please address your rebuttal to the liquor tax and DARTA info that is very misleading.


quote:

Or should those shit heads from the burbs be "forced" to "give back" to Detroit?




Reading comprehension 101 is still needed. I have said multiple times that I have no ill will towards the businesses or people in the burbs making money on the event so your term of shitheads shows that you struggle with comprehension a bit.

My only argument has been that LBP refused to pitch in 500K to help the security, logisitics and clean up efforts. His rationale was that OC would not see enough economic benefit to justify it. That is annother one of his incidents of clouding the truth to serve his purpose.
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Jfried
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Username: Jfried

Post Number: 711
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.47.87.96
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 3:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jt1 - the liquor tax in wayne, oakland and macomb does go to cobo. after each years bond is paid, the remainder is distributed across the state.

next, patterson never flat out said no to contributing. he said he could justify paying it out of the county's general fund. he actually suggested the following option:

http://204.176.34.196/oaklandpress/article.asp?ID=10613440,http://204.176.34.196/oaklandp ress/article.asp?ID=10613440

as for DARTA, the legislation was originally spearheaded by the Detroit Regional Chaber in 01. Patterson's office DID prepare much of the original text, but it was sponsored by Kilpatrick.

I think the big difference with Killpatrick getting scrutinized for his devisive comments, is because most of the stuff he says is based on emotion. Patterson may question the city, or make comments based on its current condition, but he almost always relates it back to economics, and saving his constitutients money. whereas, Killpatrick often makes stupid comments like "I don't know what's with all you white people and your drug wars."

(Message edited by jfried on January 28, 2006)

(Message edited by jfried on January 28, 2006)
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Jfried
Member
Username: Jfried

Post Number: 712
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.47.87.96
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 3:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

and back to this comment

OK let's see:

First of, look no further than his tone of what they are doing for Detroit.



------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------
quote:
Court Law Enforcement Management Information System. The countywide crime data-sharing network services our 43 police departments and has expanded to eight counties with more than 220 members. Detroit has had repeated invitations to join; we are awaiting Detroit's application.

where is the tone? he simply states that they have asked the city to join several times with no response. jt - you're obsessed.
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Jfried
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Username: Jfried

Post Number: 713
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.47.87.96
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 4:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

just the condescending way this thread started off sucks. as if there is something wrong with the fact that the big, bad suburbs are trying to capitalize on the superbowl. "our mayor" should stand up and keep all the events within city limits.
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Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1588
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 4.229.123.173
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 4:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't struggle with comprehension here at all jt1_ perhaps you struggle with honesty i.e. your own.

Jfried posted that you are wrong about the liquor tax.He also posted that Patterson's office prepared much of the original text of the DARTA legislation.

In fact jfried in a clear way refuted much of what you posted.

But that has nothing to do with what I am posting here.You don't like LBP.You don't like him personally and you don't like him politically.You claim to want regionalization yet you encourage people not to spend one penny in OC because you claim they are not willing to contribute $$ to superbowl efforts........... they have their own damn superbowl costs.There is going to be lots of activity all over the area even out here a bit in AA.And it all costs money jt1.

As near as I can tell your version of regional cooperation is completely one sided. All Detroit with the suburbs doing everything YOU think they should do to make things the way YOU think they should be.

So why not just be honest and come right out and say you don't like LBP and you hate the suburbs? that would be the honest thing to do.
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Matt_the_deuce
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Username: Matt_the_deuce

Post Number: 469
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.14.248.252
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 5:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As far as the big bicture is concerned, I'm with Jt on this one.

The OC clearly holds the upper hand in this relationship, and is absolutely taking advantage of the Super Bowl situation. How many hotel rooms are in the city? Jeez, most of the people are going to be staying in the outlying areas, and Oakland county will benefit greatly (shopping, restaurants etc.) - and without having to flip the bill for all the infrastrusture, security, and massive public entertainment responsibilities that go along with being the host location (stadium/entertainment district etc..) The OC will be able to eat a good portion of frosting off the top of this Super Bowl without having to build the cake.

Yes, thank god Oakland county has all those hotel rooms, or we wouldn't have got the game to begin with. Not the point, as Detroit is contibuting a lot more ie. Stadium, Infrastructure to hold the masses, entertainment venues etc... I was at the Pontiac game in 82' and it was embarrassing. Pontiac changed to Bourbon street? I've tried to block it from my memory... Traffic jams/gridlock trying to get to the stadium - great planning. Didn't have the adequite infrastructure to realistically hold the event (a president showing up, and being able to get him in and out of the area without it paralizing the logistics...)

My point being that OC should have kicked in a few bucks, because they will see a significant economic windfall.

The fact they didn't is because they could get away with it. The OC holds the upper hand in this dysfuntional relationship, and by virtue of this position, is the one that could probably get the ball rolling more effectively than any one else in the region when it comes to cooperation.

This would have been one of those situations where Oakland County could have chipped in - especially when the argument for economic impact would have justified it.

L. Brooks decided instead to play the upper hand, which is his right, but only perpetuates the divisiveness in this region.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 2963
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 5:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anybody with a nice car should do well. Make some deals with hotel bellmen and drive day and night.

Oakland County is merely competing with the fun fun fun image of Windsor. Hey Super Bowl Fans, you don't gotta go to Canada to have fun. Avoid all the hassles and enjoy SE Michigan. (Or Toledo for some of you.)

jjaba, Proudly Westside.
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Bibs
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Username: Bibs

Post Number: 443
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 5:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Folks, the political machine at the local level, state and federal level spends most of its time trying to either take more of your hard earned cash, get more of Lansing's cash or getting more dollars from the federal pot. All these politicos are trying to pass the buck and they are all guilty of it. Does Oakland County pay for an extra lane on I-75. Oh, OC pays a little bit but most of the money comes from the Feds and Lansing. Who pays if the Feds pass a law for everyone to have a new drivers license? You and I do! These guys are always trying to get something for nothing. Grand Rapids is constantly winning about not getting their fair share....just like Oakland County.

Remember, the purpose of government is the redistribution of wealth. Can I get a Republican to say that? That would make me laugh!

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