Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Detroit Poorest US City (Yahoo AP) Previous Next
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Gmich99
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Username: Gmich99

Post Number: 49
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 65.29.97.102
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 3:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200 60130/ap_on_re_us/super_bowl_t wo_detroits
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Jasoncw
Member
Username: Jasoncw

Post Number: 107
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 148.61.248.29
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 3:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yea, I noticed that too.

I don't think it's true though, yea the city is poor, but I don't think it's the poorest.
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Boshna
Member
Username: Boshna

Post Number: 119
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 141.213.217.188
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 3:26 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What neighborhood did he live in? I am trying to guess by the masonry but honestly have no clue.
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Everyman
Member
Username: Everyman

Post Number: 31
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 24.136.14.239
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 3:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

what a depressing final quote
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Naturalsister
Member
Username: Naturalsister

Post Number: 457
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.169.65
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 4:12 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gee!

later - naturalsister
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3122
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 5:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While most of it is true, she sure did go out of her way to glean out the good, huh? Depressing indeed, but I guess there is room enough for this type of press considering the decent press the city has been recieving of late. Not everyone is going to be a fan.

A glaring example of where she went wrong with this, though, is her characterization of the city near the end where she seems to imply that outside of a few mansion-laden and downtown that there was nothing else of any value in the city, or that the rest of a complete ghetto, which is just not true.
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Nellonfury
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Username: Nellonfury

Post Number: 84
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 68.43.156.135
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 6:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Arthur Lauderdale is right for some reasons and I don't blame her. But the "poorest city" thing, I don't know.It's going to take years for the city a get back it's REAL image.Some parts like new improve downtown is just the beginning. Don't get me wrong but this, even big events(All-Star Game,SuperBowl,Summer Olympics,whatever) that's going on in our city, our people always comes first when it comes down to emergency.
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Darwinism
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Username: Darwinism

Post Number: 375
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.215.30.34
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 9:57 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can see where people like Arthur Lauderdale, Raymond Parker and Lenerle Workman in the article are coming from. They are poor Detroiters in their 50s and are still trying to work hard to put food on the table. They live day-to-day feeling afraid that their lives would be shorten due to criminal activities looming around on their streets. They feel abandoned by the city because whatever developments occurring Downtown or Midtown, along Woodward or along the East Riverfront, really wouldn't improve their quality of lives directly and immediately. I have personally spoken to a few such individuals on the East Side as well as in the Southwest Detroit area over the past 7-8 months. It is indeed depressing.
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Genesyxx
Member
Username: Genesyxx

Post Number: 421
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 209.69.165.10
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 10:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bout time somebody said it. Despite of what was done for this event, the city will still look the same 2 miles out of downtown for some time to come.
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_sj_
Member
Username: _sj_

Post Number: 1198
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 69.220.230.150
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 11:59 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

The scenery along Van Dyke Street near Lauderdale's home would be familiar to anyone who has seen "8 Mile," Eminem's movie about life in Detroit. The street's once-bustling commercial section is dominated by boarded-up stores, charred buildings and vacant lots. The only signs of activity are at storefront churches and the occasional liquor store and hot-dog joint.




Where does this section exist.
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Dabirch
Member
Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 1344
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 208.44.117.10
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 12:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Where does this section exist.




Harper/94 and Van Dyke, for one...

Not quite sure how anybody could pick apart that article. It tells no lies.
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623kraw
Member
Username: 623kraw

Post Number: 758
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.41.224.200
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 12:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anywhere along Van Dyke from Harper to 8 mile...
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_sj_
Member
Username: _sj_

Post Number: 1200
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 69.220.230.150
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 12:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The author is talking specifically about Eight Mile.


quote:

The street's once-bustling commercial section is dominated by boarded-up stores, charred buildings and vacant lots.




Harper and 94 at Eight Mile does not match that description.
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Mikem
Member
Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2335
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 12:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting; I read it as if it said:

quote:

The scenery along Van Dyke Street near Lauderdale's home would be familiar to anyone who has seen...Eminem's movie about life in Detroit. The street's once-bustling commercial section is dominated by boarded-up stores, charred buildings and vacant lots.



- referring to Van Dyke.
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Dabirch
Member
Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 1347
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 208.44.117.10
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 12:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Harper and 94 at Eight Mile does not match that description




Nobody said it did.

The article referenced Van Dyke, and at Van Dyke/Harper (and most points north on Van Dyke) that description is pretty accurate.
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Swingline
Member
Username: Swingline

Post Number: 398
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 172.128.163.69
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 1:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The commercial activity on Van Dyke from 7-8 Mile is holding on. The neighborhoods in that area are relatively stable as well. However these neighborhoods are struggling to retain middle class families that are moving in order to find better schools. These are the battleground neighborhoods where the Detroit Public Schools and the local residents must find a formula that can reverse the decades of bureaucratic mismanagement and student underachievement so that the schools can once again anchor thriving communities
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_sj_
Member
Username: _sj_

Post Number: 1201
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 69.220.230.150
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 1:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I see, I thought he was taking liberties with 8 mile just like the movie.

My Bad.
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Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 1487
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 70.236.146.32
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 6:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From the article:

quote:

The NFL and the city's Super Bowl host committee are each contributing $1 million toward construction of a $6 million youth center.



*sigh*

It would've been so much better if they put that money towards hiring more police officers. $6 million would've been enough to hire 30+ new officers.

More officers would accomplish a lot more than any youth center.
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Goat
Member
Username: Goat

Post Number: 8101
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 65.92.103.101
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 6:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So instead of deterring youth from crime we need people to put them away when they do commit a criminal offense. Wrong logic Fnemecek.
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Northend
Member
Username: Northend

Post Number: 720
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 69.212.62.92
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 7:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whoah!! Those are such terrible statistics for the beautifull city of Detroit!!!
I hope the Super Bowl is not going to be cancelled b/c of the publication of such devastating news!! I'm floored!! Oh my f!$* Gosh!!

btw Fnemechek......many cops around here are as rotten as the crooks...I don't think we need more of either.
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3124
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 7:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Goat is exactly right. A youth center is a prevention measure, and actually does more for an area than any number of new officers. Law enforcement is an after-the-fact kind of thing, it does little to deter or prevent crime.
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Jim
Member
Username: Jim

Post Number: 966
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.27.192
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 10:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Law enforcement does not need be reactionary; it is the narrow minded who would believe that to be the only way.

So who is funding th remaining $4,000,000 for the youth center, who will run it and will it be another underfunded attempt at making the surface look nice while the core is rotting?
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Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 1488
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 69.212.61.79
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 10:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

So instead of deterring youth from crime we need people to put them away when they do commit a criminal offense. Wrong logic Fnemecek.



It's not bad logic, Goat, it's knowing what's going on and not being afraid to face the truth.

A youth center normally serves the youth - hence the name. The problem is that most of the crime isn't committed by youth.

Read the prostitution thread. https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/5/63951.html?1138065391
In it, Devolian describes the typical prostitute in his neighborhood. 30-40 years old.

In my neighborhood, the profile works just as well even though he and I live several miles away.

Do you think a 35 year old prostitute is going to use a youth center? Do you think it's going to have any impact on whether or not she continues plying her trade?

No way!

Take a look at the drug dealers. Almost all of the trafficking in my neighborhood is done by individuals over the age of 21.

The biggest drug dealer in my neighborhood is in his 50s.

Do you think a 50 year old drug dealer is going to say, "Well, they opened a youth center a couple of miles from here. I better head out of town."?

Do you really think that's going to happen?

Sorry, it's time to wake up and join reality.

A youth center is a wonderful thing - just like libraries and museums. But I'm honest enough to admit that neither of them are going to make a drug dealer stop selling drugs or stop a prostitute from turning tricks.

Will they prevent future generations from getting involved in crime? Maybe. That depends largely on how well they operate and about a dozen other factors.

However, when the police can't even respond to every 9-1-1 call because they don't have enough officers, none of this is going to matter.

Drug dealers and prostitutes operate with impunity. Shootings are way too common. As a result, whatever is done for kids inside of that youth center will be undone almost as soon as they walk outside.

If you want to prevent crime, a portion of that solution is prosecuting criminals.

quote:

Law enforcement is an after-the-fact kind of thing, it does little to deter or prevent crime.



Really?

So, do you think the drug dealers are going to just say, "Well, I've made all of this money selling drugs and nothing has happened to me. I'll just retire and go do something else."

Sorry, it's time to wake-up and join reality.

Drug dealers will continue to sell drugs until either they get arrested or killed.

Ditto for every other type of criminal. They will keep doing what they're doing until someone or something stops them. It's basically Newton's First Law of Motion applied to social behavior.

quote:

btw Fnemechek......many cops around here are as rotten as the crooks...I don't think we need more of either.



I've gotten to know a few cops in my time. There's unquestionably a few crooked ones out there, but they are the minority.

More importantly, I think it's a bad idea to stop fighting crime simply because they're a few bad cops. What the hell does something like that accomplish?

Bottom line: a youth center is a nice thing. But using that same amount of money to hire more police officers would accomplish a lot more for this city.
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Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 156
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 4:16 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There's more about Detroit on Yahoo:

cartoon
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3128
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 5:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fnemecek, those 30-40 years prostitutes were children once. By your rationale, once these people die off crime will plummet.
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Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 1490
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 69.212.36.139
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 6:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What? You think they became prostitutes because there was only one youth center nearby 20 years ago instead of two?

Wake up and join reality, Lmichigan.

BTW - let's also not forget that more than 90% of the homes near the proposed youth center don't have children in the first place. Almost all of the ones that do have children have their homes up for sale.

Why? Because drug dealers, street gangs and prostitutes operate with impunity.

I said it before and I'll say it again. A youth center is a nice thing, but we could accomplish a lot more by spending the same amount of resources to hire more cops.
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3130
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 9:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And you can keep saying it; it doesn't necessarily make it so. And in this case I still think you're wrong unless you like the idea of an equally oppresive police state. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. If Detroit started spending it's public school money smarter, the police force wouldn't even be an issue beyond doning what it's supposed to do.
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Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1605
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 4.229.132.196
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 12:39 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It really is amazing how we hang on to failed concepts isn't it Lmich? I want to see cops wherever I go whether it is Detroit or Dublin or Dearborn cops do more to detr crime and prevent crime then any youth center.
some history http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm ?kaid=119&subid=156&contentid= 2334


http://www.mackinac.org/articl e.aspx?ID=4784
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3131
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 1:10 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey, whatever helps you sleep at night, I guess. Public safety is and important, but often overhypped, issue. Hey, if you need that false sense of security, so be it. And it is more often than not a false sense of security. Public safety, first, starts with one's own safety and awareness of their surroundings, and only after that fact public safety officers. I don't need, nor want, to see a cop on every corner of my city. If I wanted that, I'd sneak my way into North Korea, thank you.

It's good that you have such faith and trust in any and all public safety forces, because someone sure has to. lol

(Message edited by lmichigan on February 01, 2006)
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Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1606
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 4.229.132.196
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 1:59 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah it sure did not do much for new york city did it Genius?
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Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1607
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 4.229.132.196
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 2:16 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some more evidence for you Lmich from Stanley Crouch of all people(know who he is?)

http://www.jazzmuseuminharlem. org/goodbase.html


This is about the fifth time I have posted this link evidently it needs to be linked again.


http://racematters.org/revival inharlemsheart.htm


The point Lmich is that increased police presence is a huge factor in crime reduction......sorry but I don't want to not have a cop around when I need one and you are very callow to think otherwise.
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3132
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 5:05 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can link to it until you are blue in the face; it is but once piece to the very complicated puzzle that is crime. Crime needs to be hit from BOTH sides, not one or the other. As important as law enforcement is, it has a twin on the other side called prevention. THAT is where I will meet you half-way, and no more. Too bad you never wish to do the same.

I would also like to have a cop I round when I want one. Yes, with the key emphasis on the want.

It's called a difference of opinion, and I can live with that. Can you?

(Message edited by lmichigan on February 02, 2006)
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Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 158
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A playground or rec center is hardly an effective substitute for a stable, two-parent household in reducing crime. This type of household is definitely not very common within the city. Crime isn't a perplexing puzzle which cannot be easily decyphered.
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Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 1491
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 70.227.207.221
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 2:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

And in this case I still think you're wrong unless you like the idea of an equally oppresive police state.



Excuse me???

An "oppresive police state"?

All I've ever asked for is that when someone calls 9-1-1, there be a police officer available to respond. How in the world does that constitute an "oppressive police state"?

Please explain yourself.
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1honey
Member
Username: 1honey

Post Number: 92
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 208.39.170.90
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 4:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not quite sure how anybody could pick apart that article. It tells no lies.

It really don't!!! Sad, but true.

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