Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Packard Plant Previous Next
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Klingon
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Username: Klingon

Post Number: 20
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 24.123.89.18
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 11:02 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What is the address of the old Packard plant that was used at the Arlans Department store?
Somewhere on grand blvd ????
Thanks
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2353
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 12:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1539 E Grand Boulevard
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Klingon
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Username: Klingon

Post Number: 21
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 66.202.51.125
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 12:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thank you
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Eric_c
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Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 614
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.21.62.206
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 3:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I drive up the Boulevard to Hamtramck everyday to work and think how much more could be accomplished in the area if the plant were to be removed/renovated.

Yesterday, ALL the abandoned houses between Jefferson and the eastward curve at Champlain toward the plant were demoed.

Where'd the money come from? Is there something specific being planned?
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 44
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 129.9.163.234
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 3:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can thank the city, at the (previous)administration level, for the sorry state the Packard plant is in today. Remember "Budco wants that site" fiasco?. They chased out the tennants, destroyed the business base of the half-assed operator that last ran it. Now the whole place is being vandalized daily, while a city "security" person sits in his car at the main gate. There is a very interesting untold story of backroom dealings that we'll never read, or know all of the facts of. I contacted a couple of reporters, trying to excite an investigative report, and they were well aware of the situation, but very reticent to say anything--almost afraid.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3021
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 5:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is Dominic still around? He was living in the school on Concord Street. At the time, he was still running the abandoned factory site as a land mgr. He was a colorful guy, Pure Detroit.

jjaba.
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Krawlspace
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Username: Krawlspace

Post Number: 239
Registered: 04-2004
Posted From: 69.246.59.37
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 11:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I chatted with Dominic a few times. Supposedly his grandfather worked on the line there. He told a tale of several brand new Packards which were walled in inside a lower level room a few days after they were made. Urban legend?
Last I heard he was still involved at the site, having beat back the state's wrecking ball in court.
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 1085
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 72.25.177.194
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 11:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If anyone's interested, I'll post some memories of my "New Dad" who married my Mom after my "Real Dad" died years ago. He was born in 1922 and grew up within walking distance. His daddy worked at Packard, and he has vivid memories of many things, including the testing of new Packards running up and down the surrounding streets to test 'em out in the '20's and '30's. His memories of the ash covering everything in the mornings after they "cleared the stacks" of the plant the night before are - well, I'll let you judge. They arrive tomorrow for 5 weeks.

Any takers?
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 52
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 129.9.163.234
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 2:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Karl--please post! I may ask your permission to foreword those to the editor of "the Packard Cormorant" a publication of the Packard club.
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Karl
Member
Username: Karl

Post Number: 1107
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.230.22.99
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 3:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

56 - of course. This isn't Vegas, ha ha. They arrive today, we'll try to begin posting on Sunday - I'm taking them on a drive tomorrow and will begin to get the brain going back that far, and take a few notes to prompt him again on Sunday. He is very sharp.

BTW, in HS he worked at Hudsons processing ALL the day's charge slips BY HIMSELF. Obviously, there weren't many charge accounts back then, but it was a manual system, and he remembers all the details. Maybe for another thread. I'll also nail down exact original home address, family parish (10 kids in the family & Catholic) and other details. He is a treasure trove of Detroit/Packard/Hudsons memories.
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 1170
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 72.25.177.194
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 1:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello, my name is Bill, and Karl has agreed to help me share my memories of growing up in Detroit near the Packard plant, where my Dad worked. This will be a bit hit and miss, but here goes:

My folks moved to Detroit in 1912 from Cincinatti, and bought a house at 6476 Concord Ave, Detroit 11. My mom loved the house because it had an indoor full bath, a rarity in those days. The house is still there, you can see it on Google Earth. My oldest sister was born in that house in 1916, and my parents had 7 more kids. I was born in that house on April 30, 1922 - as were all my siblings. The same Dr (Dr Robinson) delivered us all - and any time he came to the house he always gave each of us kids a nickle - we loved it when someone was sick! The house was approx 1000 sq ft, and the 2nd bath wasn't added until 1934.

One of my earliest memories: Every so often the Packard foundry had to clean out their smoke stacks. When that happened (always at night) the entire neighborhood would experience a yellowish cloud that attached itself to everything outside. The white trim on our house woud become yellowish brown within a year after being painted. One winter morning in 1941 I vividly remember leaving the house to catch the street car at the corner of Concord & Harper, the Harper Line. It was still dark, but under the street light it appeared to be snowing - but the flakes were yellowish brown. Having heard my Dad complain about such things, I realized that Packard was cleaning its stacks.

Dad, being a tool maker leader, had some freedom of movement and once in awhile would walk over to the foundry to complain. The supervisor in the foundry saw him coming and said to others "here comes Julius again"

The foundry emmissions also soaked into the ground. Later as an adult, when we would visit my parents as a family, my kids would be out in the yard playing and would come in dirty. Nothing wrong with that, except for the problem of cleaning - my wife would complain that the dirt wouldn't wash out - it was a greasy kind of stuff.

Our house was on a 30' lot which was common in that part of Detroit. Next to our house (N) was an empty lot that the Detroit United Railway owned, they originally planned an inter urban rail line through the City of Detroit for passenger traffic. If all had gone as planned, streetcars would have passed our house with apprx 3' clearance. The plan didn't work out, so workers from Packard parked there, usually 6 cars were there each day. During the latter part of WWII, Dad was able to buy that lot and fenced it off, more on this later.

Our house had been built in 1910. It had a partial cellar and was supported on cedar logs set on end. When I was 10 years old (1932) Dad noticed that the logs were rotting, and with 10 people living in the house we needed more room. Dad converted the existing partial cellar to a kitchen as the kitchen upstairs was too small for all of us.

By himself, Dad dug out the part we referred to as "under the house". It was a space about 600 sq' and he dug out blue clay. He would throw the clay out the side and then take a wheelbarrow at a time to the side lot. He eventually dumped about 2' deep across the entire lot. He then put in the drain and poured the floor with hand-mixed cement. He went to a place that sold used brick and had several loads hauled to our house and dumped in the alley. We boys were expected to clean the used brick which had mortar still attached. Dad used that brick to lay up the walls of the cellar addition. He also installed used basement windows, electric wiring, hot/cold plumbing and a laundry tub for washing clothes. He did all the work by himself.

More later.
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Devinc
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Username: Devinc

Post Number: 34
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 69.14.138.74
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 1:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BILL AND KARL FROM KALAMAZOO????
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 1171
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.230.22.99
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 1:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Karl lived in Kazoo many moons ago - Bill never did. Wellington Road.
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Devinc
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Username: Devinc

Post Number: 35
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 69.14.138.74
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 2:00 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

nevermind! i knew i bill and karl who were brothers in kalamazoo a year or two ago.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3069
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 1:55 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Did you attend that school on Concord near East Grand Blvd. owned by Dominic today? What's the school's name? That playground must have been damn polluted so close to Packards.
jjaba.
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 1194
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.230.22.99
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 11:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No - Bill went in the other direction - Cooper Elementary. He said "we just never went in that direction." Pollution? No one gave it a thought back then, but yes, like so many areas it was probably polluted, based on what Packard (and every other plant in those days) was doing. No one knew better. And in most places in the world outside the US, it still goes on today.
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 5287
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 209.216.150.127
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 12:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for sharing that Karl.
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Gbmp
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Username: Gbmp

Post Number: 45
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.40.103.223
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 9:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jjaba, that school on Concord close to the Boulevard is named Emma Thomas School, built in 1905. Now the entrance has a big dog kennel in it, with two alert dogs patrolling the premises. There's a mailbox by the front gate and several urban pheasants are nearby. Recently quite a few junked cars and appliances like stoves have accumulated next to the building, seemingly by invitation since there's a sign or two showing where to put the stuff.

image{thomas school 1905}thomas school 1905
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Ghetto_butterfly
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Username: Ghetto_butterfly

Post Number: 594
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 68.60.139.186
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 10:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I love this forum for many reasons, but the thing I like most is the sharing of the Detroit history, old stories, told by old (hey, meant as a compliment) Detroiters who lived through it and tell it like it was, like in this thread. Thanks to Jjaba, Karl, Ray and others for letting those "newbies' like me get a glimpse into the real Detroit.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3075
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 10:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jjaba was at the ribbon cutting ceremonies of Emma Thomas School in 1905. Obviously, Dominic has let it go to hell. Thanks for the compliment Ghetto Butterfly. Now knock on his gate and ask for the State Historical Marker of Packard sitting in his hallway. We want it back in front of Packards Offices.

jjaba, Old timey Detroiter.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 812
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.7
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 11:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's an aerial view from 1953 to show how large the factory was, and not all of it is shown. The German Lutheran Cemetery is in the foreground, on Mt. Elliot.

Packard factory Aerial 1953
WSU/VMC

(We haven't covered the Packard factory in depth yet, in the OCF thread, so I will save the other old photos for it.)
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Jerome81
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Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 912
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 64.142.86.133
Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 3:10 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can someone get a pic of 6476 Concord and post it for us?

This is one of the greatest reasons I love this place.
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 1201
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.230.22.99
Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 11:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jerome81, download Google Earth - it is free, and will provide endless hours of entertainment and education for you. You can zoom in on this address - and any other in the world. One of the most amazing programs available for your computer, IMHO.
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Jerome81
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Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 917
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 64.142.86.133
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 2:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Karl-
Got the google earth, but you can't see a facade picture very well.

But I do see the house.
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623kraw
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Username: 623kraw

Post Number: 775
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.41.224.200
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 6:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

6467 Canton is north of I-94, yes / no?

Here's about 1/8 of the side of Packard - the place is freakin' HUGE:

PackardSide.jpg
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 1244
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 72.25.177.194
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 10:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

623kraw, Bill thinks this is Concord Ave between the E Grand Blvd and Harper, looking north toward Harper. Canton is one street over to the east? Not 100% sure -
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 1245
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 72.25.177.194
Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 11:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Living near Packard in the 1930's, per Bill:

During the summer we opened all the windows of our house, hoping for some breeze. Our house had no insulation of any kind so the temperature inside was the same as outside (not during the winter - more on that later) Some summer nights we could hear the drop forges at Packard. Not only could we hear them, we could feel them, for the shock from the hammers travelled so that our beds (actually the whole house) moved to the same beat.

Occasionally, we would walk the 2 blocks to Sherwood and Strong Ave and watch thru the fence as Packard drop forge workers would take a red-hot bar and process it through several drop forges to obtain a rough crankshaft. Today crankshafts are cast, but back then the drop forge was used. It was somewhat like fireworks with sparks flying and the noise from the hammers which were steam driven. The operators used foot pedals to control the speed and pressure of the ram to which the drop forge die punch was attached.

In talking with my brother Jude, our street (Concord Ave) was the Packard test driver's route. We remember the drivers stopping, raising the hoods from the side and taking notes. You can imagine the magnificent automobiles that passed our home during these years! Interestingly, a number of them had right-hand drives, built for export to other countries.

Since it's winter in Michigan, here's some comment on heating our house. When my folks bought the place in 1912, the place was heated by coal-fired stove/space heater in the dining room. Again, there was absolutely no insulation in this home - ever - while we lived there, and no storm windows. In approx 1918 my dad singlehandledly installed a complete steam heat system (coal-fired) threading all pipe himself. He cordoned off a section in the basement for coal that would hold 6 tons. We would get 2 loads for a winter. In those days, a load cost $36, so we'd heat the house for $72/winter. We had only gas for lighting in 1912, also used for cooking. No electricity until approx 1918, when my folks finally installed electricity. My Dad added to the electrical system over the years, and to this day, I consider him a subpar electrician.

On cold winter mornings, my Dad would go down and stir up the coal furnace. For some reason, the first new heat hit the radiator in the bathroom, where my 5 sisters would get ready for school - simultaneously - then the 3 boys would get the bathroom. The bathroom was always the warmest room.

I forgot to mention that our 1 bath was on the 2nd floor. We never thought anything of it - no first floor bath. In thinking about this, it dawned on me that at our church (St Thomas Apostle at Townsend & Miller) there were no bathrooms in that huge church - until, one Sunday as an alter boy I explored down in the basement (really a cellar with just a furnace) I found a very small room with a toilet & sink - nothing else in the entire building that resembled a bathroom anywhere in the church. If the priests or nuns needed to use the facilities, they went to the convent or rectory. Seems wierd now, but we simply didn't expect to use bathroom facilities at church, even as kids. BTW, no drinking fountains either! The church is gone now, but it was a beautiful building for that era. The church buildings occupied one complete city block bordered by Miller, Townsend, St Thomas & Wallace. Looking on Google Earth, it appears that the buildings that housed the convent, original school/auditorium and new school are still there.

More later.
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Gbmp
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Username: Gbmp

Post Number: 47
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.40.103.223
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 7:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Karl/Bill/others: here's a picture of the home at 6476 Concord, just barely off Harper after Concord crosses over the freeway. 6476 is the nicest looking house around there. You'd never guess its age from the appearance. Not too far away there are some new homes being built, which will be a boon to the neighborhood.

Bill, your memories about growing up in that area are wonderful.

image{6476 house nr harper}
application/x-macbinary6476 house nr harper
6476 concord house nr harper.jp (21.5 k)
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3101
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 8:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wonderful memories. Thanks Karl.
jjaba's father worked at Smith Envelopes, 2460 E. Grand Blvd. corner Dubois. This was from 1928 until he moved the plant to Russell and Clay Industrial Center in the old Murray Body Works.
jjaba.
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Gbmp
Member
Username: Gbmp

Post Number: 48
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.40.103.223
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 8:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another attempt to show the house at 6476 Concord.

6476 concord house nr harper


21.5 K
6476 concord house nr harper.jp
"6476 concord house"
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Mikem
Member
Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2410
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 10:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gbmp, just hit the "Upload Attachment" button below, you don't have to put anything in for a name, and use the "Browse..." button to find the file on your hard drive. Make sure it's a .jpg and less than 50kb, and less than 550x550 pixels.
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 1281
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.139
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 11:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jjaba, Bill says that he worked for Murray Corp - Spring Division which was in the same building at Russell & Clay from 1941 to 1950, taking time off for WWII - Marines and college at Wayne State. In 1950 he went to work for Dynamic Filters in Corktown. In 1951 Bill went back to work for Murray in the aircraft division (Russell & Clay) as a process engineer to assist w/the business generated by the Korean War for Murray. This lasted until 1956 when he began teaching apprentices in the skilled trades at Henry Ford Comm College. Bill hopes he's accurate on the dates.

We're working on a few more memories, back soon.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3109
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 2:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jjaba's father, alva sholem, started as a printer at Smith Envelopes in 1928, 2460 E. Grand Blvd @ Dubois. Then, as Superintendant, he moved the factory in the 1950s to the SE corner of W. Michigan Ave. and Roosevelt. This was a Canvassar Ford Garage dealership. Then, around 1956 or so, the plant under the name Cupples-Hesse Envelopes (St Louis firm), moved to the Russell Industrial Center , Russell and Clay. Their plant was on the street level not far off the corner, facing Russell and the new Chrysler Expressway going in, right in front of the plant. jjaba remembers a Clay exit, northbound.

jjaba.
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Gbmp
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Username: Gbmp

Post Number: 49
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.40.103.223
Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 9:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Last try after suggestions from Lowell and Mikem:

64766476 concord house.jpg
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Gbmp
Member
Username: Gbmp

Post Number: 50
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.40.103.223
Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 10:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Last try after suggestions from Lowell and Mikem:

6476
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Gbmp
Member
Username: Gbmp

Post Number: 51
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.40.103.223
Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 10:06 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Last try after suggestions from Lowell and Mikem:

6476
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3113
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 12:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dandy looking old Detroit Eastside house.
Thanks.

This post 3113 is a palindrome. Doesn't happen very often.

jjaba.
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Gbmp
Member
Username: Gbmp

Post Number: 52
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.40.103.223
Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 11:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've spent countless hours taking pictures of the outside of the buildings at and near the old Packard plant . What a place! The complex north of the boulevard looks like it's all the same structure and I assume was all Packard. What I'm curious about are all those buidlings on the south side of Grand Boulevard, such as those along Bellevue and Palmer and Concord that look different than the main ones. Can someone cite a good reference that would describe exactly which ones were Packard, or were all those buildings part of Packard? For example, along the alley continuous with Bellevue there's a cornerstone of sorts that says Building No. 32 1911; was that part of Packard? And is there a reference that would describe what was done in the various areas of the plant? Like where was the foundry that spewed out all that ash? And the forge? You get the drift of my questions. Thanks for a great thread, especially those memories form Bill via Karl.
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Karl
Member
Username: Karl

Post Number: 1282
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.139
Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 1:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gbmp, I will grill Bill tomorrow. We've been looking at the buildings on Google Earth, and lots of memories are coming back. He's also decided to ask his brother Jude, who he says remembers far more, though Bill is pretty sharp. It is possible that we can get Jude to sit and post some memories of the era also - and Bill says that is where the "gold" is. Stay tuned.
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Eric_c
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Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 648
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.73.57.108
Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 11:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good looking house! Bet your dad was super-proud of it too, Bill. Thanks for sharing.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 832
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.83
Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 12:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gbmp, there is a Sanborn fire insurance map of the Packard factory on the current page of the Old Car Factory Thread, posted by Sven on Feb 14th.

If you look at that aerial that I posted above, all of those large buildings are part of Packard, on both sides of EGB. I'm trying to gather info and materials to figure out what was, and did what in the factory, but it is taking quite a bit of time to track down. When I do get enough together it will be posted in the OCF thread.

Unless someone else wants to do it.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 834
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.83
Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 1:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a close-up of a map that should better depict the area of the Packard factory grounds (bright green) and EGB (purlple). Haper cuts through the north (top) end, Hupp is on Mt. Elliot and Milwaukee.

Packard factory grounds
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Karl
Member
Username: Karl

Post Number: 1289
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 72.25.177.194
Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 2:36 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

GBMP - I was remiss in not thanking you very much for all the effort to post that great photo. Bill & his family appreciate it very much, you are very kind!

I've been talking with Bill and coming up with dates, locations, etc. I hope that tomorrow, he will be able to pinpoint exactly where those locations are that were requested. He is absolutely sure of one, and 90% sure on the other. More soon.
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Karl
Member
Username: Karl

Post Number: 1293
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 72.25.177.194
Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 10:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bill says: My folks bought that house in 1912, and all 8 kids were born in that upstairs front bedroom. They continued to live there - my Dad died in 1970 and Mom lived there until 1978 when she broke her hip. She loved that house for the indoor bath, plus the separate LR & DR - and in that tiny house - a foyer. After she broke her hip, she had to sell the house - a tough German woman who was the last white in the entire neighborhood. The first offer was $700, which insulted her. She ended up selling for $1600-2000 in 1978 (if anyone can quickly/easily check this out, Bill would love to know exact year/price) Mom ended up moving in with my sister and lived to 99 years 10 months, dying in 1990. All 8 kids grew up to be successful, functional contributing members of society, all from Detroit Public Schools and that little house. 7 of the 8 still survive, and the oldest still lives in Detroit, near City Airport.

When Dad moved to Detroit and bought that house, they absolutely loved the city - coming from Ohio, they especially loved the flat land, opportunity, and success of the city. He wanted to walk to work, and that he did, at Packard. He wanted to work at a new factory and he did. Mom worked at Parke Davis, pasting labels on bottles. Once the kids started coming, she stayed home and raised them - in her wonderful house with indoor plumbing - upstairs.
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 5314
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.228.197.193
Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 11:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Karl,

According to the City, the house today is owned by Naomi James, and is assessed at $4469.


quote:

Sales Information


1 sale record(s) found.

Sale Date Sale Price Instrument Grantor Grantee Terms Of Sale Liber/Page
06/28/2001 $0.00 OT LAND & MINERAL SERVICES DIVISION NAOMI JAMES NA-NOT ACCEPTABLE 34724/945


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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 2304
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.167.211.61
Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 12:26 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great stuff Karl [Bill]! Keep it coming.

1940 City Guide entry below. The address cross references shows that they had a phone by then. Only about one of three addresses had phones. Judging by the names the street was predominantly Polish, German, with some Italians, the rest with Anglo names.

hessler
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 1299
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 72.25.177.194
Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 12:40 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you, Lowell - info is right on.

Hornwrecker - what does "EGB" mean?
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 2305
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.167.211.61
Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 12:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is the block in 1929. The above mentioned vacant lot next door can be seen to the north at 6790-2.

concord
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Kathleen
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Username: Kathleen

Post Number: 1168
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.14.122.57
Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 7:20 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Karl,

EGB=East Grand Boulevard
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623kraw
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Username: 623kraw

Post Number: 779
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.41.224.200
Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 8:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Karl, I'm simply showing a partial side of the Packard factory. Yes, the street shown is Concord. I was asking if the Canton address number was north of I-94. Canton is one block to the east, and there is a small stretch north of Harper (my bad - I-94 wasn't there way back when) Great posts. I enjoy this "what the Forum was meant for" stuff...
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 857
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.134
Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 5:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Packard postcard
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Bate
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Username: Bate

Post Number: 64
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 71.101.227.115
Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 9:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Karls above post regarding "Bill" working at Murray's Russell & Clay location(s) gives reminder that we need to cover that area on the OCF, as we know there has been quite a number of auto related companies there throughout the years. I notice from the rail side there is evidence of a factory section that was torn down at some point in time.
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Dday
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Username: Dday

Post Number: 810
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 72.49.177.60
Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 10:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This was posted a loooong time ago. I'm really surprised at how little it has been mentioned since. It is a diary from 1918 that has been transcribed and placed on the net. Anyway, the author of the diary would have lived not very far from Bill. Thought it may be of interest to him.

http://www.carrico.net/jfc1918 .htm

For the rest of us.......read the entry for 11 Nov. It's fascinating.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 859
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.140
Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 11:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A close-up of a 1930-ish map showing the streets before expressways.

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Dday
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Username: Dday

Post Number: 811
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 72.49.177.60
Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 11:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow....the address of the diary's author was on Miles Street (I actually looked when I was living in Hamtown and that is all there is to Miles St....a couple blocks). Looks like they were really close to one another....within a few blocks.
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623kraw
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Username: 623kraw

Post Number: 787
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.41.224.200
Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 12:54 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kind of off topic, but the postcard above appears to show a river. There is a factory @ 6500 Huber near Mt. Elliot where a river that runs parallel to Mt. Elliot can be seen. The rest is covered. Can any old maps out there verify this?
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2421
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 1:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That postcard looks a little too bucolic.

Could the river you're seeing near Huber be a drainage ditch leading to Connors Creek through Forest Lawn?

Forest Lawn area
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Dodgemain
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Username: Dodgemain

Post Number: 87
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 68.41.191.58
Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 1:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What year is that map. I've never heard of Leesville.
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2423
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 2:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it's 1904. It was part of a geological survey published in 1917, but the map says it is the "1905 edition", surveyed in 1904, and reprinted in 1915. I don't know if the 1904 survey data was updated before the 1915 printing.

Leesville was a settlement centered at Gratiot and Harper since the 1850s. It never incorporated as a village before it was absorbed by Detroit. I thought I did a thread last year on Leesville, but I can't find it.
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Eric_c
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Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 663
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.73.57.108
Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 9:37 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

623kraw, I don't think the postcard shows a river; I think the intent was to just sort of "fade out" the image. Could be wrong, though.

Mikem says "bucolic" and I agree. You'd have to imagine the area was relatively rural when the plant was first constructed, then the houses were built later.

I find it ironic too, that the area in 2006 is more like it was in say, 1909 vs. mid-century from a 'density' standpoint.

Sometimes Detroit's history seems like a big 'ol accident that just happened to cause a paradigm shift! Like Jjaba once said, "...just a dream."
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 863
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.125
Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 1:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's an earlier postcard of the Packard factory. I especillialy like the hills in the distance.

Packard factory postcard

These old postcards are notorious for embellishing the scenery around factories, although, the building is usually pretty accurate .
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Lombaowski
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Username: Lombaowski

Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 84.166.237.86
Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 8:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm a Detroiter through and through and I really enjoy reading posts like those offered by Karl. All my family was born and raised in Detroit and yet we left in 1977 when I was just five. Now that move bothers me deeply. Within six years (1974-1980) my entire family on both sides left Detroit. I'm glad to read of memories of when the city was a wonderful place with great expectations for the people who called Detroit home.
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Eric_c
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Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 668
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.21.62.206
Posted on Thursday, March 02, 2006 - 1:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Now that move bothers me deeply."
------------------------------ -------------------

You are welcome to break the cycle anytime you wish. We'd love to have you.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3197
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Thursday, March 02, 2006 - 2:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome to the Forum, Lombaoski. Your name says pure Hamtramck. Where is your Detroit legacy?

jjaba, Westside Bar Mitzvah Bukkor.

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