Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Should GM and Ford create new logos? Previous Next
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 3213
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 65.222.10.3
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 3:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have been doing a lot of reading and thinking a lot about the current situation of the American auto industry. I really believe that image is a huge motivator when selling a car. It seems as if image problems are most severe at GM and Ford. I honestly believe that their logos say a lot. It appears as if there is some sort of stigma or bad luck that goes along with these logos.

Look, Chrysler changed their logo from the pentastar to the wings without much of a fuss. Toyota created their logo not long ago, and it is clean and functional. It just seems as if the blue oval looks rather out of date. The bowtie needs to be redone or simply done with. The blue GM logo is so 1986. This is definitely not helping their image.


If GM and Ford want to reinvent themselves, why not start with the logo?
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Ericdfan
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Username: Ericdfan

Post Number: 96
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 68.41.117.60
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 3:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ford had the script logo until 1982, thats only 23 years..

Don't forget that it would take a tremendous amount of capital to do so..capital which I rather doubt they have..each company would have to design new molds, buy them, put them on the vehicles, and also change their advertising...not to metion change the logo's on all their buildings, stationary, pencils...pens ect....
if you did that with GM it would be even more costly...with GM you are dealing with more than one brand under the umbrella..

Its just not realistically cost effective for them to do so...
This is big reason why my high school shut down, they changed the name from Fairlane Christian to Detroit World Outreach Christian Academy in 2001. As you can see, it is not only a much longer name, but you have to take into account all the little changes that need to be made that really add up...They just didn't realize it would be so expensive...
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Rustic
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Username: Rustic

Post Number: 2010
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 130.132.177.245
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 3:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey! They could rename Ford "Bagley Motor Works"! They could do it reall quiet like ... then BAMN! all of those FordBMW 500 owners wouldn't know what hit 'em ... That's the ticket ...
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 45
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 129.9.163.234
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 3:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chrysler re-introduced the "seal" logo (the seal dates back to 1924, when Chrysler introduced the car bearing his name in the Maxwell lineup), and re-combined it with the wing logo, which dates back to the early 1930's, so Chrysler really just reconnected with their older logos and marketed them well. The Chrysler crest was replaced in the late 50's by the "foreword look" double horizontal Vee symbol. That was replaced with the Pentastar, in 1962, and that was the logo most boomers grew up knowing.
Ford has used the logo since 1912 (1927 Model "A" was the first vehicle to sport the oval) and it is one of the most enduring corporate symbols in the world. GM's logo is just boring, has been for years. I don't think that Toyota jumped in sales due to their new logo, and I don't think that GM and Ford are suffering because of their logos. Keep the Ford logo--it's sacred. GM might think about a new logo. How about:
1)manufacturing a quality vehicle that doesn't $500 dollar you to death the moment the warranty expires
2) make cars with exciting styling that doesn't scream "company fleet car"
3)fixing the disfunctional family businesses that the US brand dealer networks are. Eliminate all executive garages, mechanics. Make Bill Ford get in line at "3rd generation spoiled brat Ford" in his home town.
let's start there.

(Message edited by 56packman on February 02, 2006)
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 242
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.139
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 3:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The cost factor aside, being an old fart, I don't like change. The blue oval is just fine with me; it's as if Henry Ford himself signed each car. The GM logo is less memorable, but I recognize it at once and would probably be confused by a change. Of course, I confuse easily......
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Rustic
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Username: Rustic

Post Number: 2011
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 130.132.177.245
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 4:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

see there's my target customer: Ray1936 how'd ya like to be drivin' a shiny new BMW E-250?
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Mcwm
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Username: Mcwm

Post Number: 121
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 206.15.249.238
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 4:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

blue oval = Ford
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 243
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.139
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 4:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rustic, old farts like me don't drive any foreign cars. We prefer the big three. You know, the cars where all the parts are marked "Made in Mexico".
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Rustic
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Username: Rustic

Post Number: 2012
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 130.132.177.245
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 4:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

:-)
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Commodore64
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Username: Commodore64

Post Number: 186
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 208.39.170.90
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 5:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No way! The Ford Oval belong on all Fords. Remember when Jaq Nassar tried to use the Ford Motor Company spelled out? It didn't look right on WHQ.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3022
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 5:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Henry Ford did sign the new Ford for Ray1936. jjaba was on his Noble School Rouge plant tour, 1949 and saw it.

Ford whispered in our teacher's ear, "Have you driven a Ford, lately?"

jjaba, Westside Detroit Times paperboy.
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 2424
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.202.227.12
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 5:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lol jjaba
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 661
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 64.139.64.80
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think Ford & GM have proven that cute logo's and interesting marketing campaigns can't save a company. They are important parts of selling a product...but you have to have a great product.

Case-in-point: Toyota has had the same logo, very frumpy in my opinion, for the past 15 or 20 years or so. And, in general, their marketing campaigns are pretty bland. They are sales and profit CHAMPS because their products are superior.

WE'VE GOT TO GET PAST this idea that better marketing can sell products no matter what they are.

Having said that...I think that each manufacturer is making strides in quality, design, power, etc. that all come together to make a better product.

THE dumbest thing I heard this past year was how GM will now be placing a GM logo on all gm brands. Ya, I want to pull up in my $56k STS next to an Aveo with the same marking...CHRIST!
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 662
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 64.139.64.80
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BTW...I was using that STS as an example...I don't own, nor could I afford, a $56k car!

(I'm so attempted to say, "well I could if I were a mayoral candidate and wanted to spend my campaign money on a lease for one..." but I won't...oh wait...too late)
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3025
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 6:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The $56K STS Cadillac would go nicely with your pimped out diamond earring, Quinn. Tis never too late to own a new Caddy, Standard of the World.
Pure Poletown Detroit product, pure pimpmobile. jjaba can order you one without the GM logo but you have to close the deal today. $2,000 dealer cash back, $2,000 manager's cash-back, $2,000 Super Bowl cash-back, plus $500 Kwawme cash-back today.

jjaba.
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 90
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 68.2.191.57
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 7:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought Ford already redesigned their logo:
http://info.detnews.com/paynet oon/details.cfm?id=922

:-)


(Message edited by Jimaz on February 02, 2006)
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56packman
Member
Username: 56packman

Post Number: 47
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 129.9.163.106
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 7:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And another thing: Mercedes buyers aren't tired of the three pointed star--and it's older than dirt.
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Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 244
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.139
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 8:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Um.....jjaba, this Detroit Times carrier saw Henry Ford, the elder. He was in the parade down Woodward in 1946 for the 50th anniversary of the motor car. I remember Mom nudging me and pointing to a car saying "There's Henry Ford". Was just a glimpse. And I met Hank the Deuce once at Greenfield Village. I thought he was rather nice and gracious, despite what Lee Iacocca might have to say........

Ray1936, trying to figger why the Dexter bus never came down Schoolcraft......
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 1003
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 9:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Question.
Why does Ford change the sign at WH every few months?
It seemes that every time there is a TV story about Ford, the big sign on the penthouse is different. You often see cranes there, as if waiting for the orders to come down.
Is it some kind of US Flag at the Capitol thing?
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Crazy_pete
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Username: Crazy_pete

Post Number: 10
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 72.138.178.249
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 11:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nah... those logos have been around forever. Everybody is into retro now anyway, changing them wouldn't be smart. Maybe update them to change the look a bit.

Oldsmobile tried to update their image in the late 90s and brought in completely new styling and a new logo. The result? They were building some of the best cars GM had ever produced, but people stopped buying them because they ruined their heritage. Now Olds is out of business.
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Rberlin
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Username: Rberlin

Post Number: 343
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 68.255.74.6
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 12:26 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I miss the Pentastar....
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Wmuchris
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Username: Wmuchris

Post Number: 182
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.51.137.10
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 1:46 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I heard that Ford has been planing a new logo for some time now. They were going to wait until after all of the layoffs have taken place.

Methinks they were considering an alteration of the classic blue oval.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3027
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 3:56 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wmuchris, that is funny. JJABA lol.

The Dexter runs up to the end of Dexter then across on W. Outer Drive, then to Northland up Greenfield.
Schoolcraft already has its own bus.

Does jjaba have to remind you of everything Westside?

jjaba, old newsboy on the Westside.
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Fastcarsfreedom
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Username: Fastcarsfreedom

Post Number: 25
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 206.80.245.127
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 11:21 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice to see that the GM & Ford bashing that is so in style nationwide is alive and well here in Detroit also.

First off, there is no quality gap--it's gone. Toyota's products aren't superior, they are perhaps equal, but not superior. The Malibu is consistently out scoring the Camry in quality.

Ford should not change the oval--it's too intrinsic to Ford. Jacques Nasser changed the signage on the glass house to the full script Ford Motor Company when he was CEO--this was an attempt to seperate the parent company from the Ford vehicle brand--which continued to use the oval. Nasser got his ass fired and the oval went back on the glass house. The Ford oval is fine--that weird Mercury logo (maybe the whole brand?) could use some serious work. Lincoln is plain, but longstanding.

The GM logo is a corporate logo and not a brand--I don't see what the value in changing it would be. GM did, however, stylize it's word mark a few years ago--softening the font basically. Though some have been critical of GM's decision to place GM badges on all it's cars and trucks--the badges are just fine--firstly, they are tiny, and secondly, they are meant to convey the fact that broad GM initiatives like OnStar are available on all brands. The untold story in the media is just how high GM's quality and customer satisfaction numbers have been rising--so taking the Cadillac and Buick bragging rights and sharing them with the other brands makes sense. The Chevy bowtie, Pontiac arrowhead and Buick tri-shield are classics that need not be replaced--though some or all could be updated. Cadillac updated and stylized it's wreath-and-crest logo and it looks great while still being classic. GMC is merely a word mark, as is Hummer. The one spot GM could use some serious logo rebranding is Saturn--the red rings logo and futuristic word-mark are way too 1980s Roger Smith-esque. BTW--The Olds logos--throughout that brands history, were all great, including the last one (I stare at it every day in my steering wheel hub).
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Goggo
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Username: Goggo

Post Number: 170
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 64.136.49.226
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 11:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe they still have the mold for this one... think of the tooling cost savings.

1955 Ford logo
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Mikeg
Member
Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 69.136.155.244
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 4:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fastcarsfreedom "knocks it out of the park"!

However, I must add some sobering thoughts.

Annual NAFTA light vehicle sales remain in the 16.5 - 17.0 million range with long-term annual growth trend expected to be less than one percent.

There are already enough assembly plants in the US, Canada and Mexico (NAFTA) to produce 18.5 million light vehicles per year, with more capacity still in the contstruction phase (thanks to foreign car companies who recognize the need to build 'em where they sell 'em).

Unfortunately, the immutable consequence of a collision between excess capacity and free trade is that over time, the excess capacity will all end up in the factories of the highest-cost producers, even though their product's have competitive quality levels and features. Unless the highest-cost producers in the NAFTA region (GM, Ford and also DCX) can reduce their structural costs quickly, they will continue to be the ones who will have to perform the painful process of shedding assembly capacity in the NAFTA region.
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Dhugger
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Username: Dhugger

Post Number: 19
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 66.167.210.66
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 12:00 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe GM & Ford should 'Feng Shui' their headquarters & assembly plants too.

Build better products and stop screwing the vendors. It seems that the auto manufacturers turned into finance companies by spinning off all their production and parts plants. They need to hunker down and redesign their automobiles not the logos & mastheads.
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Jerome81
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Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 909
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 64.142.86.133
Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 12:58 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are you kidding me?

The Ford Blue Oval is one of the most recognized brands in the entire world. I want to say only a few, such as Coca Cola and McDonalds are known by more people than the Ford Blue Oval. The market recognition is unbelievable. Good or bad, EVERYONE knows it when they see it.

GM is up there too. But I don't think close to Ford.

BTW, that is not Ford's signature. It was designed by Harold Willis, a Ford engineer way back in the early days.
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Burnsie
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Username: Burnsie

Post Number: 387
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 35.12.26.123
Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 2:00 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Out of curiousity I once looked up in old magazines at a library when various Big 3 logos were first used.

Patrick wrote, "The blue GM logo is so 1986." It actually dates from 1964-1966; I can't remember the exact year. Sometime before 1983, it was altered slightly to make the letters and underline a bit thinner and to make them take up less space in the blue box.

The GM logo has a certain monolithic (imperious?) look to it, but I don't think that vehicle sales would be helped a damned bit by changing it. Anyone know when the "Mark of Excellence" tag was dropped?

I've noticed that recently Buick has abandoned the blue and red colors in its tri-shield, and now it's just silver and black. That looks kind of dull.

The best logos are the ones that are simple and never age a bit. Chevrolet is a good example. Timeless. Chevy can't seem to make up its mind whether it should be gold or blue, though. Traditionally it was blue. Then my parents had a 1980 Citation with gold bowtie. Later on, trucks retained gold bowties while cars got blue ones. Lately, it looks like all Chevys have gold bowties. I like blue better.

Ericdfan wrote, "Ford had the script logo until 1982, that's only 23 years." Not sure what you mean here. The blue oval in its current incarnation (except for the recent shift from dark blue at the bottom to gold at the top), dates from approximately 1961. The older blue oval was fatter with its script more scrunched-up.

The shield logo that Goggo posted was used for some years instead of the oval. The Glass House originally simply said "FORD" at the top in sans-serif, block letters. The ore boats had that motif for quite a while, too.

The full "Ford Motor Company" script was not just used by Nasser. It was used way back in the day also, though the script wasn't an EXACT match. Don't know the exact years it was used, but I've seen stationery from the late '50s with it.

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