Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Downtown shooting...not so bad Previous Next
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 9876
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.246.37.236
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 4:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll admit, last night I was fuckin pissed, hurt, and very depressed about what happened. At the time I thought it would totally ruin everything I thought the Super Bowl was building up. My friend with me last night from Corktown went so far as to say "That's it, I'm fuckin done with this city, I'm moving." I was greatly mistaken by it's impact come today. Downtown was like I have never seen it before!

I talked to Seattle fans, Steeler fans, Detroiters, and all of them were blown away by what downtown was like. Even when I called my Corktown friend today, he was still pissed off, but after sobering up he realized he was not going to move, for he loves this city, just as I do.

We are not about to let a little speed bump cause us to pack our bags. We are here for the long haul and realize that shootings like this will happen now and then. Neither one of use are gonna be pushed to the limit and decide to me because of it.

I called my parents last night, minutes after the shooting occured to tell them it wasn't me. Apparently my mom didn't pick up on what my dad told her, as she called today and asked "So, what happened in Detroit?" I told her, a woman got shot like 4 times in the chest and died, a guy was shot in the leg and in the hospital. That was it, no big deal, game over, old news. I assured them I watch out for myself and will be fine and that was the end of the story.

Detroit did fine, we should all be very proud.

Detroit shined tonight like it's never shined before, I've never been more proud of my city.
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Drm
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Username: Drm

Post Number: 849
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.73.53.115
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 4:46 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great time in the CBD this afternoon. Some of my friends brought their children from the suburbs to enjoy the activities. Nice to see all the people out and about again today.
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Dialh4hipster
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Username: Dialh4hipster

Post Number: 1404
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.61.187.234
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 5:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Downtown shooting...not so bad




Well, except for the shooting and death part.

We are lucky as hell this didn't get blown up big, and we'd best not forget it. Don't treat it like you just got away with skipping sixth period at school.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 174
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 5:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Once upon a time Amber Hunt and Ben Schmitt - fearless Free Press reporters/editors uttered:

"The stabbing marks at least the second suspected homicide downtown within 24 hours."

Let's see. A woman dies with four shots to the chest at point-blank range and a homeless guy dies from multiple stab wounds to the head and torso.

Suspected homicide? Is that the type of reasoning expected from a reporter or editor? Why not include the word "alleged" also? If not a homicide, might it be a suicide or an accident?!

For one, I'm glad that the Free Press cleverly buried this Sunday story as a "special bulletin" tacked onto its online Saturday issue instead of having these murders marring its Super Bowl edition.

(Message edited by livernoisyard on February 05, 2006)
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Ericdfan
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Username: Ericdfan

Post Number: 100
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 68.41.117.60
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 9:21 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have been sick for the last few days, so unfourtunatetly I was unable to be Downtown for the SB experience and all that...even tho I wanted to. I did see the news on channel 4 after the the wings game and they were brodcasting from a window studio on campus martius ( a very good idea that they should keep IMO). Anyway, they showed shots of downtown every 5 minutes or so and there were ppl EVERYWHERE! They then flashed to a scene at FTC's parking lot the show a line or ppl 150 or so long waiting to get on shuttles...I was, and am quite impressed.
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 5273
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.228.209.75
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 12:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

National news now... http://sports.excite.com/news/ 02052006/v5807.html
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Spaceboykelly
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Username: Spaceboykelly

Post Number: 120
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.30.248
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 12:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Last night [Sat] was great. Everyone had a blast [no pun intended]. The entry lines/waits at every turn were gargantuan, which was a mixed blessing.

Detroiters and out-of-towners alike were staggering drunk, and downtown looked amazing. Ultimately, the unfortunate shooting did not ruin the entire weekend.
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English
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Username: English

Post Number: 488
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 12:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm tired of Detroiters always being so defensive about Detroit. After all, it's Detroiters who have been dealing with this nightmare for 40 years, not suburban, out-of-state, and international tourists. Recent transplants, okay... but try being SEVEN years old in the mid-1980s and your house getting shot at.

And whether or not downtown Detroit "comes back" after this, the situation in the neighborhoods is still dire. And that's not a Detroit problem--it's nationwide. And the only reasons other cities can mask it is because of the way municipal lines are drawn.
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Mcdirt
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Username: Mcdirt

Post Number: 23
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 65.29.98.237
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 12:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernois....the reason for couching the language is the possibility that either of those killings might NOT have been homicide. Self-defense, for example. Far-fetched? Yes. Have papers been successfully sued for libel for lesser transgressions? You bet.
Finally, I'm not sure the Freep buried the story so much as it occurred past its print deadline and had to go online, or not at all (remember, the Freep has no Sunday news section...yet)
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Mcdirt
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Username: Mcdirt

Post Number: 24
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 65.29.98.237
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 12:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernois: "Homicide" is a legal term fraught with legal peril for newspapers. What if one of the killings turned out to be self-defense? Far-fetched? Yes. Have papers been successfully sued for libel for less? You bet. That's the reason for "suspected." And I reckon, without knowing for sure, that the shooting happened too late to get into Saturday's print edition...and the Freep has no Sunday news section...YET! Finally, the initial postings at this site about the the shooting wailed and moaned that the media were sure to have a field day with it and blow it out of proportion. Now that they haven't, is credit due? Or do we just find some new perceived fault (like "suspected homicide") to seize on? Just askin'
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 176
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 1:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Still a homicide, Mcdirt. Besides, there was no injured party mentioned for any libel. Anyway, the truth is the best defense against libel. "Homicide" is a neutral term. Cf. below.


THE LAW OF HOMICIDE


THE LAW OF HOMICIDE

Homicide is a neutral term. It describes an act with no moral judgment. Murder is the term that is non-neutral. It describes an act with moral judgment. The law of homicide has the most complex degree (grading) system of any area in Criminal Law. This grading system is reproduced below. The first two (2) fall in a category called "perfect" defenses. The last four (4) fall in a category called "imperfect" defenses. Perfect defenses always involve justifications and excuses.

(1) Justifiable Homicides -- these are "no fault" homicides. They ordinarily involve the death of someone under circumstances of necessity or duty (commanded or authorized by law). Examples would be self-defense, capital punishment, and police shootings.

(2) Excusable Homicides -- these are misadventures, accidents, or acts of insanity. They ordinarily involve acts of civil fault, error, or omission. There's not enough fault to be criminal negligence. There's a legal defense to this act.

(3) 1st Degree Criminal Homicide (Murder) -- These are acts involving the death of someone in "cold-blood" or by "lying in wait". They are distinguishable by the MPC mental state of "purposely" which is defined in Homicide Law as having three (3) elements: (a) premeditated -- meaning fixed or obsessed; (b) deliberate -- meaning "cool"; and (c) malicious -- meaning scheming or clever. Also, the crime of felony murder (someone dies during commission of a felony) is automatically 1st degree homicide.

(4) 2nd Degree Criminal Homicide (Murder) -- These are acts involving the death of someone in the "heat of passion". It's basically a catchall category today for acts such as shooting bullets up in the air, but historically, a number of older terms were associated with this grade; terms such as the "year and a day" rule (for when the death had to occur) and the idea of "malice aforethought" (which meant wicked, evil, depraved, spiteful, or with depraved heart). Of these terms, only the phrase "depraved heart murder" is still used. Heat of passion murder doesn't require provocation, but it still requires proof of intent (see advanced lecture on intention).

(5) Voluntary Manslaughter -- Manslaughter, in general, involves acts involving the death of someone without thinking. It involves "sudden passion". There's no premeditated deliberation. The requirement is "adequate provocation" and there's three (3) tests: (a) the person loses the ability to reflect cooly; (b) there's no sufficient time to cool off; or (c) the provocation must have caused action. Voluntary manslaughter is often what the jury will return as a verdict when they are deadlocked on the homicide charges. Historically, there's some interesting concepts associated with this grade, such as the in flagrante or paramour rule (which is the only exception to the mere words rule, which rules out words as provocation, if the spouse taunts).

(6) Involuntary Manslaughter -- This is the crime of Criminal Negligence, sometimes called misdemeanor manslaughter. It's the least serious offense in the law of homicide. It typically involves acts related to public safety, such as operating a motor vehicle, railroad, or bus. Specifically, it involves the careless use of firearms, explosives, animals, medicine, trains, planes, ships, and automobiles. Many states have sorted out a separate category called Vehicular Manslaughter for cases involving automobiles. It's also interesting to know that, by tradition, most prosecutors will draw the line at this point (meaning it's all they'll prosecute for) for cases of corporate crime.

Premeditated Deliberation

This is the idea of planned in advance, coolness. There's some inconsistency in definition, but the phrase generally refers to anything "cold-blooded". It's defined as "a careful thought and weighing of consequences, a judgment or plan, carried out cooly and steadily, according to a preconceived plan". "Planning" in the long-term is NOT required. A few seconds will suffice at law, as long as there's sufficient maturity and mental health. There's also something called the deadly weapon doctrine which allows the inference of intent if a deadly weapon is used.

Adequate Provocation

This is the idea of extenuating circumstances. Only certain kinds of circumstances will reduce the crime in terms of degree. The reasonable person standard is used to determine if there's a reasonable belief in being of danger of losing one's life or suffering great bodily harm. The law on this point also recognizes the frailty of human nature (reacting without thinking). The following table might be instructive by giving examples of adequate provocation:

Adequate:
serious fights
sudden passion with no time to cool off
pistol whipping, fists in face, staggering body blows
waiving a gun around


Inadequate:
scuffles
slapping or shoving
insulting gestures
abusive words

The last example of waiving a gun around might be inadequate also. It depends.

PRINTED RESOURCES
Chamelin, N. & K. Evans. (1991). Criminal Law for Police Officers. 5th ed. Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Prentice Hall.
Gardner, T. & T. Anderson. (1996). Criminal Law: Principles and Cases. 6th ed. Minneapolis: West Publishing
Hall, Jerome. (1949). Cases and Readings on Criminal Law and Procedure. Indianapolis: Bobbs-Merrill.
Hart, H. (1958). "The Aims of the Criminal Law" Law and Contemporary Problems 23: 403-405.
Samaha, J. (1999). Criminal Law. 6th ed. Belmont, CA: West/Wadsworth.


Last Updated: 10/06/05
Syllabus for JUS 293
MegaLinks in Criminal Justice

Jawohl, Jimaz! As a technical editor/writer, I should have checked my copy-and-pasting. But, hey! It's pro bono. It should read OK, now.

(Message edited by livernoisyard on February 05, 2006)
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Wilus1mj
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Username: Wilus1mj

Post Number: 27
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 67.149.62.53
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 1:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What I read was that it was because of "shoving" in the line at the bar.....come on, not that shootings because of drugs is any better, but this is just sad.
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English
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Username: English

Post Number: 490
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 1:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Finally, the initial postings at this site about the the shooting wailed and moaned that the media were sure to have a field day with it and blow it out of proportion. Now that they haven't, is credit due? Or do we just find some new perceived fault (like "suspected homicide") to seize on? Just askin'

McDirt, metro Detroiters just pride themselves on their martyrdom, I guess.

The crazy thing is that I bet these weren't the only murders that happened in the D this weekend. Do I like it? No, I wish we had the crime level of East Geblip, Iowa. But since we don't, it makes no sense to pretend that we're something we're not just because "company is in the house".

To me, the fireworks shooting of 2004 was much more scary, because it happened on my usual viewing corner and more people were hit. The only reason I missed it was because my out of town best friend from college is a minister and wanted to go to Bible study in Southfield instead. If she'd chosen differently, we would have been on my pet street corner...

I am beating a dead horse, but I think that perceptions are everything. Detroit is not as bad as some people think it is, and Cool U.S. City of the Moment is neither as cool, nor is it as safe. Case in point: a grade school classmate from 1980s-era Bates Academy, who moved to the Georgetown area of D.C. and was raped and killed there.

But that's part of the American mass delusion that is responsible for so much--our perceptions of terror, violence, Democrats, Republicans, race, gender, sexuality, and class create so much of our reality.
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Mcdirt
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Username: Mcdirt

Post Number: 25
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 65.29.98.237
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 1:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernois, I stand corrected. I was confusing my "murder" with "homicide". Thank you.
I also read in today's Snooze that the homicide(!) occurred at about 1:30 a.m., which would, indeed, explain why it was in no Freep print editions the following day.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 177
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 1:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some states don't even have "murder" laws any longer in their criminal codes. My native Wisconsin abolished "murder" in the criminal sense probably two decades ago. It was replaced with differing flavors of "homicide."

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