Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Michigan Avenue: what happened? Previous Next
Top of pageBottom of page

Royce
Member
Username: Royce

Post Number: 1436
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 69.212.224.185
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 1:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

After avoiding Michigan Avenue this past summer because of all the construction, I decided to see what the construction had turned out. To my shock the work that was done between Wyoming and I-96 is awful.

First off, the left lane heading west is on a slant, making driving in that lane very uncomfortable. Secondly, there is a contrast of light poles. On the south side of Michigan Avenue you have new old-style lamposts. On the north side you still have the more modern lamposts.

What the hell happened that this project was not completed properly? Are there plans to complete construction anytime soon? I thought for sure that this work would have been done correctly by the Super Bowl. I wonder how many out-of-towners staying in Dearborn for the Super Bowl noticed these inconsistencies while heading down Michigan Avenue for the game?
Top of pageBottom of page

Arab_guyumich
Member
Username: Arab_guyumich

Post Number: 744
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 141.215.5.238
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 1:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't believe that stretch has been completed yet. The roadway, as well as the streetscape, on that left side still need quite a bit of work.
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 41
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 2:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The First Resurrection of the Book Cadillac was to have been essentially done before the Stuper Bowl also. However, everything's OK - just a minor delay here and there and over there and...
Top of pageBottom of page

Motorcitymayor2026
Member
Username: Motorcitymayor2026

Post Number: 505
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 71.10.63.140
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 2:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL... Three permanent casinos and hotels were finished by the Super Bowl too, right?!??
Top of pageBottom of page

Chub
Member
Username: Chub

Post Number: 283
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.246.28.200
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 3:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Royce, you're still woried about what some "out-of-towners staying in Dearborn" thought during the SuperBowl? I'm more interested in what people that live, work, and pay taxes in that area think. Anyone in that area have anything to say, positive or not?
Top of pageBottom of page

Eric
Member
Username: Eric

Post Number: 328
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 35.11.210.161
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 4:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Royce use some common sense two year construction project aren't that unusual. I"m sure it won't be long before they restart work.
Top of pageBottom of page

Royce
Member
Username: Royce

Post Number: 1437
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 69.212.224.185
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 5:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, I'm sorry, Eric. I didn't know that it's typical for road construction to start, stop half-way, and finish later on down the road. I thought that when a road project was started that it continued until it was done. This makes common sense to me.

Who can tell me what recent road construction project, besides this one, was started and then put off to later? On second thought, Eric, why don't you tell me?
Top of pageBottom of page

Hamtramck_steve
Member
Username: Hamtramck_steve

Post Number: 2715
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.209.188.146
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 6:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The rebuild of 75 from the Rouge Bridge to somewhere downriver a few years ago was a two-year project. They did one side of the freeway one season and finished it the next.

The rebuild of 94 out Telegraph way, including the new Telegraph interchange was a multi-year project, too.

Those are two just off the top of my head. If you want, I could go through MDOT's web site and find more.
Top of pageBottom of page

Eric
Member
Username: Eric

Post Number: 329
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 35.11.210.161
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 6:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You do realize that winter basically brings roadwork to a halt. It takes an amazing lack of sense when the concept of a road project taking two construction seasons in Michigan is shocking

I remember work on Northwestn through Farmington taking two years. Even the Mich. Ave in Dearborn took two years. Just as an heads up the Ford Rd rebuild E of Southfield is going to take two years so don't start complaining next winter when project looks half finished
Top of pageBottom of page

Bertz
Member
Username: Bertz

Post Number: 498
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.61.15.89
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 6:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Forgive me for this thread-jacking and if this was already answered. What % if any of the SB fans stayed within the city limits?
Top of pageBottom of page

Hamtramck_steve
Member
Username: Hamtramck_steve

Post Number: 2716
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.209.188.146
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 6:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

16.94 percent.
Top of pageBottom of page

East_detroit
Member
Username: East_detroit

Post Number: 515
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.212.169.194
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 6:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"if any"??? Sheesh.
Top of pageBottom of page

Chub
Member
Username: Chub

Post Number: 284
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.246.28.200
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 8:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is roadwork and light work all over the city that is half finished. My guess is that alot of it will be completed when the temps get a bit higher. Well, at least I hope so.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3064
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 9:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And another 16.94% of Super Bowl fans ate blood sausage and kolachski in Hamtramck.
Hamtramck Steve ain't no bullschitt when it comes to hotel occupancy figures.
jjaba, LOL.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3065
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 9:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michigan Avenue was last paved when they took off the streetcars. It can't be repaired overnight.
But it will rise like Grand River and like Gratiot. As for the shopping, the public transits, and the store fronts, they will take longer.

jjaba, Westsider.
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 46
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 10:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You left out any consideration for the whores there whose business is down to zilch due to single-lane traffic and no parking. Oh, the humanity!
Top of pageBottom of page

Mikeydbn
Member
Username: Mikeydbn

Post Number: 294
Registered: 04-2004
Posted From: 35.11.141.32
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 10:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michigan Ave is slowly shaping up to become a nice corridor - infrastructure wise. Perhaps this will spur pockets of new development? (Corktown needs to lead the charge!)

Where else can you play "count the prostitutes"?
Top of pageBottom of page

Jams
Member
Username: Jams

Post Number: 2640
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.252.8.173
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 11:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Grand River, Gratiot, Cass, Woodward, Warren etc. A capitalist's dream, supply the product and they will come (pun intended)
Top of pageBottom of page

Royce
Member
Username: Royce

Post Number: 1438
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 69.212.224.185
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 12:36 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, excuse me for complaining, Eric. My parents live on the eastside off of Gratiot. The resurfacing of Gratiot from Conner to Randolph was started in early 2005 and completed just prior to the Super Bowl. Given the fact that Gratiot is a major street just like Michigan, I just assumed that if they could finish Gratiot by Super Bowl time, then they could finish Michigan on time as well. I guess I have to realize that completing two major streets at the same time is not typical.

BTW, Eric, I do realize that winter "basically" brings road work to a halt. That's why I am shocked that, given the time that they started construction on both Michigan and Gratiot, that Gratiot would be finished and Michigan would not. Equally shocking is your attitude, Eric. You act like you know the timetable for all road construction projects. Did you know about the Gratiot resurfacing and how quickly it was done in relation to the Michigan resurfacing?

Forgive me, Eric, for basing my opinion on road construction timetables on how MDOT handled Gratiot's resurfacing. Unless you work for MDOT, I don't understand your smug attitude. It is strikingly similar to the attitude of Mr. Know-it-all himself, Skulker. Eric, are you the son of Skulker?
Top of pageBottom of page

Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3067
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 1:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Royce going Eastside on Eric.

jjaba.
Top of pageBottom of page

Mplsryan
Member
Username: Mplsryan

Post Number: 128
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 24.26.164.215
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 6:20 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

it IS winter....
Top of pageBottom of page

Eric
Member
Username: Eric

Post Number: 332
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 35.11.210.161
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 7:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know all timetables for road projects, but I know enough not to be amazed by the sight of half finished roadwork in Michigan; in the middle of winter. If having enough sense not to make my first conclusion that the work was done incorreclty and then pointing out that logical fallacy makes me know-it all so be it.

No, I am not the son Skulker I love buildings
Top of pageBottom of page

Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 3688
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.223
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 9:16 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Royce,

The road contruction crew had to take a break Michigan Avenue construction becuase of winter. They will resume on the west bound side of Michigan Ave. by this year. I love it when pave the road with good ol aspalt guarantee to last about 2 years until it crack and break into a potholes and to form black ice when the next winter comes.
Top of pageBottom of page

Dnvn522
Member
Username: Dnvn522

Post Number: 96
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 204.24.64.25
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 9:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Comparing the Gratiot and Michigan jobs is like comparing apples to oranges. They're different amounts of work. The Gratiot job was a $3.5 million project and the Michigan job is a $17 million project. Which do you think should take longer?
Top of pageBottom of page

Skulker
Member
Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3516
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.103.104.93
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 11:00 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I didn't know that it's typical for road construction to start, stop half-way, and finish later on down the road. I thought that when a road project was started that it continued until it was done. This makes common sense to me.




It doesn't make common sense to anybody who has ever stopped to think about the costs and logistics of winter infrastructure construction.

Asphalt plants close typically around mid November because asphalt must be kept at certain temperatures to pour correctly and once you get past mid November, temperatures in Michigan fluctuate too much to be reliable for asphalt paving.

Concrete can be poured in temperatures well below asphalt, but this requires very expensive additives to keep the slurry levels correct as well as giant heating pads placed over the concrete to help it cure correctly. Even then cold weather pours don't hold up as well as mild or hot weather pours.

Ground freezes in the winter making it more difficult to excavate and move, especially when snow and thaw water are thrown in on top. A frost excavation can cost 25-50% more than a non-frost excavation through longer hours hours, more wear and tear on machinery and having to keep exposed machinery from freezing.

Backfill material (for road beds) is notoriously sensitive to temperature and moisture variables. If the ground is too wet, it won't compact properly. If it is too cold, it won't compact properly. If it COLD and WET, then you have a real problem.

Cold weather slows work crews down. Bulky mittens and gloves make for less accurate work, requiring workmen to work more slowly. Nuts and bolts that should come apart or go together easily don't. They get frozen, require heating, get stripped more easily, meaning simple tasks take longer. Fine motor skill work requires removal of gloves or mittens for brief periods followed by rewarming of hands. Bulky clothes mean crews have less flexibility and move more slowly. Crews have to stop every hour or so and rewarm themselves to prevent hypothermia or frostbite. Labor costs go through the roof and accidents are more likely to happen with heating elements getting knocked over etc.

Add all these and about another half dozen challenges together and golly, you will find that most road and other infrastruture projects close down during the winter.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6703
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.251.24
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 11:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

The Gratiot job was a $3.5 million project and the Michigan job is a $17 million project. Which do you think should take longer?




I guess Gratiot but I'm also not very good at guessing.
Top of pageBottom of page

Busterwmu
Member
Username: Busterwmu

Post Number: 197
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 24.247.221.241
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 11:10 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't worry, the rest of Michigan Ave. will be completed this coming summer. The reason the first side took so long was all of the pipes and cables under the street that were being replaced. I don't think there are as many or any pipes on the north side (WB lanes), so it should go a bit quicker. Then, there will be new streetlights along that side of the road too, and it will be much smoother and brighter overall.

My bigger concern is the brick portion around the Trumbull Area. I know MDOT is trying to figure out what to do with that whole stretch of US-12, but in the mean time they should grind off that asphalt in the middle, which currently is making things evey worse then the brick underneath! Where the Asphalt has broken away, and the brick revealed underneathe, sometimes there is a two inch or more difference between the two.... makes for an awful up-and-down ride. That brick has been there for how long with little or no maintenance? I wish all streets were still built out of it. In my opinion, MDOT should relevel the brick through that whole area.... not lay down new modern brick, but keep the old stuff there. Take out the asphalt down the middle. Whether they leave the streetcar rails or not, they should leave the brick design as it is as though the rails are still there, even if they are removed.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ro_resident
Member
Username: Ro_resident

Post Number: 142
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 63.85.13.248
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 12:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Royce, a better analogy between the work on Gratiot and Michigan is to think of the roads as houses.

Gratiot would be roughly getting your roof replaced. A company can come in, perform a tear-off, and reshingle in a short time.

Michigan is the equivalent of a house tear down. The foundation is replaced and a whole new structure is built.

Thinking in those terms, it is easier to see why one project may take longer than another.
Top of pageBottom of page

Busterwmu
Member
Username: Busterwmu

Post Number: 200
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 24.247.221.241
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 4:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny I agree about the concrete vs. asphalt. Fort St. near the Bridge is great because they did a huge project a year or two ago and repaved it in thick conrete. Once they got the sinking drains figured out we now have a great road which should last a while. I was hopeful that the Fort repaving west of that would be more of the same, but alas just another 2 inches of asphalt. At least on Michigan Ave. they relaid the roadbed underneath, but you'd think they'd have the forsight to put concrete down the first time, thus eliminating another repaving for maybe 10-20 years.

Oh wait, I know why they did it! It's only a matter of time till mass transit wins, and streetcars will begin to run down the center of Michigan again. It's much easier to rip up the asphalt in the center to put the rails back in than concrete. That explains it! I wish!
Top of pageBottom of page

Royce
Member
Username: Royce

Post Number: 1439
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 69.212.224.185
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 8:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eric, let me first say that it was clear to me that the work on Michigan Avenue was not finished. Sometimes obvious questions have to be asked to not offend the smug bastards on this forum. I guess they didn't work.

My "amazement" that this project was not done comes from the fact that given the length of time that the construction crews worked on Michigan Avenue and given the fact that all but two lanes(one going in each direction) were open, I thought that the work would have been done by the time I drove down Michigan Avenue February 3, 2006.

I am, in no way, under the belief that construction workers should be working on Michigan Avenue during these winter months, so thanks anyway for the "arrogantly" detailed summation, Skulker. I didn't need it, but I understand how your arrogance compelled you to deliver it.

The fact remains that they stopped construction, leaving the west-bound lanes of Michigan in less than desirable shape to drive on. If they weren't finished with the west-bound lanes, but the east-bound lanes were done, then why didn't they keep the west-bound lanes closed and just have all the traffic drive on the eastbound lanes. This concept is often done with freeways. Why wasn't it done here?

BTW, thanks for the analogy Ro Resident. I can appreciate responses like yours. They don't come across as condescending like other people's responses.
Top of pageBottom of page

Darwinism
Member
Username: Darwinism

Post Number: 397
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.209.187.90
Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 9:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Royce, I can empathized with you. On a lighter note, once you get used to Skulker, you can probably get used to everything else here.
Top of pageBottom of page

Broken_main
Member
Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 802
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.222.11.226
Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 1:58 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speaking a little on the subject. The Michigan Avenue project is a two year project. The street has undergone extensive work wit regards to pulling up old streetcar tracks, replacing water and sewer lines. In addition to the sewers that were replaced, the streets sewre system is now designed to hold more water to prevent us from dumping the water to the river, which is always a good thing.

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.