  Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 5 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 67.38.87.62 |
The vote to see who runs the zoo is today. Any thoughts? | ||
Blondy Member Username: Blondy Post Number: 956 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.212.173.138 |
I think I would be the best candidate. I mean, I kind of run a mini zoo now. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1610 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.164.127 |
You got my vote. | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2730 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 136.181.195.65 |
Let's have a cook off to decide. It should go to whoever has the best recipes. | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 861 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 198.208.159.18 |
keith cockerel jr. said he "loved" lbp on wdet interview this morning, in reference to comments lbp made concerning the possible "oakland county zoo" detroit love-atcha! | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 6 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 67.38.87.62 |
If the Detroit Zoo became the " Oakland County Zoo", would that make a good opportunity for Detroit to open another zoo/aquarium downtown? | ||
Blondy Member Username: Blondy Post Number: 958 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.212.173.138 |
Are the only two options the City and the Detroit Zoological Society? | ||
Blondy Member Username: Blondy Post Number: 959 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.212.173.138 |
No, I do not think that it would be a good opportuntiy to have another zoo downtown. Although there is the soon to be open revamped "Belle Isle Nature Zoo". Detroit cannot afford to open a zoo or an aquarium. Get a private group to do it, and to run it. | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 863 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 198.208.159.18 |
I think private managment/ownership is what the city is shooting for, if only to keep it out of LBP's and oakland county's hands.... at least that's what I gleaned from the story on WDET this morning | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6773 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
Who cares as long as the city of Detroit is no longer the only city funding it. $4 million/year from Detroit, $0/year from all other cities/counties. I honestly don't care who runs it if it will save the city $4M/year. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1613 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.164.127 |
Agreed JT1 | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 285 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 207.200.116.139 |
Why, the animals, of course. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3562 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
Dude, my Manatee in Marinara is going to be sooooo much better than your Snail Darter Suprise. Mmmmmm.....real elephant ears for desert! | ||
Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal Post Number: 735 Registered: 09-2004 Posted From: 136.2.1.103 |
Skulker's hate towards Buildings is only rivaled by his hate of Antelopes and Penguins. | ||
Wmuchris Member Username: Wmuchris Post Number: 229 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.58.36.2 |
Thank God!! All of the Zoo's financial problems shall be solved by this new scientific breakthrough. Tiger poo will get you through! http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/s cience/02/17/tiger.poo.reut/in dex.html | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 689 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 209.104.146.146 |
The apathy toward a Detroit land mark on this site is amazing. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6782 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
Detroit landmark that benefits the entire region (Oakland County moreso) but only costs Detroit taxpayers. Not really apathy but more financially logical. Detroit does not have the money to subsidize regional assets. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 7 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 71.65.11.152 |
But you want the region to subsidize Detroit assets? The name alone " Detroit Zoo" represents Detroit, no matter where it is. I know a lot of people that are not Detroit residents that paid money to visit the Detroit Zoo, so it does not cost only Detroit taxpayers. Detoit and the location of the zoo are in the same region, you should care. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1426 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
They didn't pay tax to support the zoo. That is a horrible and ignorant use of the word taxpayers. They are the zoo's customers, they should pay an entry fee. Why should I ask a Detroit resident, or more importantly, my struggling working class neighbor pay taxes to support the zoo when other Detroiters than live in OC, Livonia, or even AA don't? It is not that I want OC to pay for the zoo. It's that I wan't us to all pay for it equally, since we all have an equal chance to use it. | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 48 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.33.56.156 |
The state of Michigan should take ownership of the zoo and make it a class attraction | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 8 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 71.65.11.152 |
My point was that the zoo does not run on Detroit taxpayers money only. It does say the Detoit Zoo and KK's name is on the tower, not Granholms. I agree if it runs on taxpayer's money, the "region's" taxpayers should pay. Some statements made make it sound like no one cares because its not on their block. It is still a landmark that should be cared about. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1430 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
My point is that OC's "taxpayers" don't pay taxes for the zoo. Citizens of the city of Detroit do. The state apparently kicks in some money, but that is trival compared to the number of people and businesses that pay state taxes. I agree with you Thnk2mch. I don't see how the water tower really matters. When control is transfered that will be repainted. But I hate it when politicians put their names all over everything. Chicago seems to be especially bad with that. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1799 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.81.13 |
There are only 2 groups that can OWN the zoo.... 1) the City of Detroit 2) the Rackham family who donated the land that the zoo and Rackham golf course is on. I am sure that the deed restrictions say that both will revert back to the family should the city no long want to own it. End of the "ownership" discussion! As for "running it", that's another story.... | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 49 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.33.56.156 |
Let's face it folks, as far as zoos go, it is pretty pitiful. I mean, no disrespect but compared to other zoos, it will not be a money-maker. Let's not be restrictive. If the above statement is true, and therefore, impossible ever to resolve, let the "Rackham" family have their land, bow out---and push for a new world-class zoo run as a state park by the state of Michigan. For God's sake, there is sure enough land in the Detroit area for a new one to be created and think of the attention it would draw. As for the present state of the zoo, the LAST thing I want to do is to drive on some freeway to some suburb to visit the "Detroit" zoo. Detroiters and the surrounding burbs really do need to get some creativity going. Maybe that would even transfer into the car companies so we don't have to fantasize about drinking Faygo to support local business...... | ||
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad Post Number: 2 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
When's the last time you've been to the zoo? What's wring with it and why does it have a problem cashwise? Consider the parking and then try to defend any of the current "management". They try to charge parking as you leave. The attendants are a hit or miss "organization" that seem to put more cash in their pocket than the zoo's. I'll not try to hide my disgust for the current "administration" that seems to more concerned with painting his name on a water tower than provided the best service as a public servant. I would be thrilled to see L Brooks Patterson take the zoo away from the incompetence that riddles the current staff. I would gladly donate whatever it takes to paint that damn water tower. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 82 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 4.229.90.217 |
I disagree. Maybe you haven't been there lately. http://www.detroitzoo.org/Attr actions/Attractions/Attraction s/ | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 50 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.33.56.156 |
With a metro area in the 5 million range---it could be and should be a lot better---sorry oops--forgot to mention---i have been there | ||
Spartacus Member Username: Spartacus Post Number: 87 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 68.42.217.91 |
I've been to a lot of zoos and the Detroit Zoo stacks up fine. Is it better than San Diego? No. But San Diego (and other zoos) have the benefit of a regional tax to provide funding. The Detroit Zoo has world class polar bear and ape/chimp exhibits. The Detroit Zoo was also revolutionary in that it was the first in the U.S. (and I'm guessing one of the first in the world) to attempt to show animals in their natural environments and not in cages. The idea of junking the zoo and starting over sounds like you are either making a joke or haven't in fact really been there. | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2733 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.209.188.146 |
Jjw, "it could be and should be a lot better" What would you change? | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 51 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.33.56.156 |
I don't think it can continue to work in its present location. Yes, the zoo has its strong points and yes, it is obvious that the San Diego zoo is nicer. But, ask yourself this question? For a metro area of over 5 million and a state so abundant in natural resources, why are we left with what is? And... now hold on to your pants, would it hurt so much to change the location? A world-class zoo in Detroit would certainly add to the quality of life and gain national attention. And.... here is the kicker. Why not take the challenge and do it??? In answer to your question, I would change the location, I would change ownership to the state of Michigan as I mentioned before, I would expand it, I would include a major Great Lakes exhibit, I would include a major "animals of Michigan" exhibit, I would move it to a location that I won't hear freeway traffic, and could go on. When I mentioned other zoos being a bit nices, I was not referring to San Diego by the way. I could rattle off a list but the facts are obvious. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1800 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.24.129 |
I think it would be a big waste of taxpayers money to build a new zoo. If anything, they should expand and improve the existing zoo, by closing Detroit owned Rackham Golf Course next door and use that land for zoo expansion. There is no reason why the zoo HAS to be in Detroit, except for vanity reasons. However, if they did move it to Detroit, the best location would be Rouge Park. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 975 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.73.207.58 |
So, um... anyone know how the vote went? I'm not finding anything online about the vote result. Here's an article from yesterday's freep about the vote: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060217/NEW S01/602170452/-1/BUSINESS07 | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 11 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 71.65.11.152 |
Update: As posted on WDET website http://www.wdetfm.org/article. php?id=996&cat=9 | ||
Blondy Member Username: Blondy Post Number: 960 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.212.173.138 |
7-2, the city keeps control of the zoo. Fucking ridiculous. | ||
Michigansheik Member Username: Michigansheik Post Number: 88 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 24.12.52.190 |
thanks barbara rose, your intelligence will solve the zoo's problems! | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 3733 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.235 |
SELL THE ZOO THE SUBURBS! And call it the L.B. Paterson Zoo. | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 594 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 68.40.119.216 |
The City Council is the new location for a city zoo. If the city can't afford the suburban location, they should sell it and get as much dough as they can. Crunch time is upon us and tough choices are going have to be made. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6784 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
They can't do that based upon the conditions of the land being deeded to the city for the zoo. | ||
Quickdrawmcgraw Member Username: Quickdrawmcgraw Post Number: 46 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 63.77.247.130 |
1. We are forgetting there are folks who work in Detroit that help contribute to the tax base and don't live in the city. 2. The City Council should have posed better communications on their decision and should have previously told the administration about getting approvals from them last minute and any outcomes, thus maybe avoiding situations such as this. 3. The City needs to get out of running certain institutions that it cannot manage. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6789 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
That tax is being rolled back. Don't kid yourself into thinking that much is being subsidized by suburban employees.
I agree and the zoo was a great opportunity. It does not change the fact that the City of Detroit is the only place that is willing to do this. If voters in other cities are asked to foot a bill for anything they refuse. We are supporting more than we should but the rest of the region is refusing to help. Easy to criticize closures when it isn't and won't be your dollars supporting it. If you don't live in Detroit write your mayor, your reps, county commisioner and ask them to help fund these regional institutions. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 87 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 67.107.47.65 |
Has this ever been put on the ballot? I would not have a problem with paying to support the zoo and I live outside Detroit. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6792 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
How did the vote go for arts tax? That was during better economic times. But it was easier to just expect Detroit to be the lone city supporting the DIA, MAAH, etc. A zoo tax has not been supported by the politicans in the region and would not, I guarantee would not pass. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6793 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe our regional country bumpkin mentality would support looking at animals but not the arts./ | ||
Funkycarrie Member Username: Funkycarrie Post Number: 180 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.251.199.185 |
At least we'll still have the Toledo Zoo... | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 119 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
"Count me in for the Bake Off. Hope they got penguins. Hear they taste like chicken. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 88 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 67.107.47.65 |
You don't have to be a bumpkin to like animals. For whatever it is worth, I emailed Ken Cockrel and said I hoped he would keep trying to save the zoo. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6796 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
As have I. I guess at this point it is all we can do. I hope, however that there are political player in other cities/counties that are willing to step up and work with Detroit to come to a fair agreement that works to keep open the zoo without Detroiters paying an unfair burden. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 89 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 67.107.47.65 |
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060220/NEW S05/602200402/1007/NEWS | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 12 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 67.38.87.62 |
I believe the way to relieve Detroit taxpayers of a huge financial burden and the Zoo to receive $4,000,000 in state aid was just blown. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6799 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
Does anyone know the conditions of that $4 Million. I suspect that only part of the story is being told. I may be wrong and our CC may truly be that bad. I suspect that the State is offering 1 time costs but there a lot of contingencies like Detroit eating the money that the Zoological group can't come up with. | ||
Gdub Member Username: Gdub Post Number: 979 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.221.78.226 |
It would be nearly impossible for the DZS to raise enough money to run the zoo privately. Much of the donations and grants are earmarked for capital improvements or for specific programs. People don't like donating money for general operations costs, they like it to go toward new buildings or conservation or educational programs, tangible things. Raising entrance fees is probably not viable either since it's already a little pricey. And big corporate dollars are hard to come by with large conpanies in the area struggling. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 769 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
The DIA is able to do it through the Founder's Society, including a major building renovation. The zoo is used by way more people than the DIA, so one would assume that there would be more people who would be willing to come up with more funding. The DIA gets $0 from the city, the zoo can do it too. But if it goes away it is not coming back. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 13 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 67.38.87.62 |
Is the CC worried that if they give up management of the zoo, the employment there may change? And that, in turn, would become their fault? ( not good politically ) | ||
Bibs Member Username: Bibs Post Number: 453 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.23 |
The Detroit Zoo will be renamed,"The Metro Zoo". Their slogan could be,"Take your kids to the Metro Zoo so you don't have too!" | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 348 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 35.11.210.161 |
Here are the conditions of the $4 million
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20060221/M ETRO/602210364 (Message edited by eric on February 21, 2006) | ||
Ro_resident Member Username: Ro_resident Post Number: 148 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 63.85.13.248 |
SB 0236 of 2005 (now Public Act 297 of 2005) states: Detroit zoological society [$]4,000,000 ... Sec. 902. The funds appropriated in part 1 for the Detroit zoological society shall only be awarded if the city of Detroit relinquishes itself of all governance, management, and operational authority in the zoo within 60 days of the effective date of this act and transfers all governance, management, and operational authority in the zoo within 60 days of the effective date of this act to a local unit of government or to a nonprofit entity. http://www.legislature.mi.gov/ documents/2005-2006/publicact/ htm/2005-PA-0297.htm | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 14 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.227.102.82 |
I don't get it, they will close the zoo but they will not let somebody else run it while they keep ownership of it? On the news last night they said it would cost 14 million to shut it down. Save the 4 million a year and let somebody else run it. Also I don't think I need more land, they have space to squeeze more in if they wanted to. Heck, it takes for ever to walk around there. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2322 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.221.64.175 |
I'll reprint this from another thread... 1. The city contributes about $3.6M, while the State and private sources such as the DZS account for about $7.6M of the zoo budget. 2. Zoo patrons constitute far more non-Detroiters than city residents. 3. In a financial sense, "Detroiters" includes suburbanites who own property in the city, suburbanites working in the city and paying city income taxes, and companies located in the city (with many suburban owners, workers, etc.) paying property taxes. 4. City residents that rent and/or receive aid and/or are unemployed are a substantial bloc of Detroiters. People in those catagories aren't paying income and/or property taxes thus significantly diminishing/elimnating a whole bloc of Detroiters "share of the zoo burden". 5. Private sources of zoo funding (about $7M, the largest portion) are pretty much non-Detroit based. Now what this is really about... 1. Political grandstanding by CC using the race as well as city vs suburbs cards. 2. CC and the mayor wouldn't have access to future zoo revenue. 3. CC and the mayor wouldn't have a say in awarding contracts ($$$ to friends and family). 4. Detroit wouldn't have a say in future zoo hiring. So once again it's a matter of Detroit wanting the suburbs money but not allowing them to have a say. More "regionalism". | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3589 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
http://www.petitiononline.com/ detzoo/petition.html | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2096 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 130.132.177.245 |
who should run the zoo? simple: Roger Penske! ZOOOOOOOOOOOOM | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1187 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.31 |
Harsensis, Your math problems are too hard to figure out by your average person. So we've turned your calculations over to our well paid council departments to review and see if $14 million minus $10 million indeed equals the $4 million dollar savings you calculate above. Our staff should get back to us with their report within a few months to see if your math is correct. Sincerely, The Honorable Barbara Rose-Collins | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 19 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.227.102.82 |
Thanks Metro | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 2519 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.251.27.41 |
The Zoo will be run by those who built it: The taxpayers of the City of Detroit. If anyone wants to pony up on taxes, then they can have a say. | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 399 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 147.240.236.9 |
What about all the people in the burbs who pay the city income tax, do they have a say? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6837 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
Gildas - Do people that work in Pontiac and pay income taxes there have a say in Pontiac politics and assets? | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 403 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 147.240.236.9 |
Not sure, does that make it right? | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1233 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.220.230.150 |
If you want to own it, pay for it. Plain and Simple. | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 2525 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.251.27.41 |
When people who live in Detroit but work and pay taxes in the suburbs can have a say, then the inverse will be acceptable as well. Gildas | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8133 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.228.202.130 |
..the animals should run the zoo. Much like the inmates running the asylum that is southeast Michigan. | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 404 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 147.240.236.9 |
Last time I looked, many of the suburbs don't have a city income tax so your point is mute. However, in the cities where there is an income tax, those paying it, should have a say. Or do you think that paying money without representaion in government is a good thing? | ||
Esteban Member Username: Esteban Post Number: 53 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.216.105.26 |
I want the Royal Oak Zoo to be run - and owned - by Oakland County. That's what Zoo director Ron Kagan wants, that's what L. Brooks Patterson wants. On my wishlist, I want Kagan, the Zoological Society out of Detroit finances. They have gutted Detroit-based cultural centers, duping Major Kilpatrick at every turn. In my opinion they can't be invited out of Detroit fast enough. I want them to leave us to pick up the shattered cultural icons they have left in their wake. Good riddance! (Thinks) Detroit owns the land the Royal Oak Zoo sits on. Let's cut a deal so Oakland County can buy it. Use the proceeds to reopen and endow the Belle Isle Zoo and Aquarium. | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2751 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.209.133.247 |
"those paying it, should have a say" That's right, and I demand a say in every single municipal election in Michigan and in every state in the country. Why? Because in Michigan, part of my tax money collected by the state is dispersed back to counties and cities through revenue-sharing. Every city and county is effectively using my tax dollars, yet I don't get a vote in 99% of those cases. The same is true on the federal level. Some of my taxes go from Washington to every state. I want my vote, damn it! | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 405 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 147.240.236.9 |
Wow, never know that HS was so civic minded. Good for him!! | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2752 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.209.133.247 |
Well, if they're going to use my money, I want a vote, dagnabbit! That's what the Boston Tea Party was all about right? All that taxation without representation stuff! | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 406 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.222.64.169 |
Viva la revolution!! | ||
1honey Member Username: 1honey Post Number: 94 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
SELL THE ZOO TO THE SUBURBS! And call it the L.B. Paterson Zoo. Agree with ya Danny. (Message edited by 1honey on February 22, 2006) |
