Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 St. Louis Centre to be Sold, Redeveloped Previous Next
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Krapug
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Username: Krapug

Post Number: 30
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 24.188.90.4
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 4:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am posting this here since downtown retail development is a oft discussed topic.

www.stltoday.com

There is a story that the nearly vacant downtown mall St. Louis Centre is being sold and will be redevloped as Condos, and Offices with some retail.

Just another example of a failed downtown mall. In this case it still has 1 anchor store (Famous-Barr, soon to be Macy's), but that was not enough to save the mall itself.

Clearly a downtown "mall" is not an option that downtown Detroit should persue.

Ken
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Jsmyers
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Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1421
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 5:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

amen
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Rsa
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Username: Rsa

Post Number: 778
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.212.43.242
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 6:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

they just redeveloped an empty mall in downtown louisville as well.

malls in downtown settings very rarely work. you have to have great density to support street retail AND indoor retail.
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Ericdfan
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Username: Ericdfan

Post Number: 107
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 68.41.117.60
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 6:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

detroit has ver liitle outdoor retail...and the same for indoor...if the population was higher in the city i think it woul work, but not as of now.....
i like the idea of an indoor mall that can have open area's when weather permits....i think that would be awesome
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3103
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 8:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Galeria in Cleveland is a jewel. Seems successful.

Mall downtown Fort Worth also failure.

Downtown malls in Seattle and Portland, Oregon very successful.

Doesn't the Metrolink train line stop inside the St. Louis Mall? Will that continue?

Toronto and Montreal inside malls downtown on Metro lines work very well.

Sorry about St. Louis. It was a good idea until they realized nobody shopped there.

N. Michigan Ave., Chicago, inside Malls work well. Good density and cache'.
jjaba.
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Drm
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Username: Drm

Post Number: 860
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.74.30.120
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 9:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We should enclose the whole city and we could open up the roof when the weather is nice. That would be awesome.
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Michikraut
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Username: Michikraut

Post Number: 113
Registered: 05-2004
Posted From: 80.135.55.187
Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 5:24 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Before I left for Europe, Indianapolis was developing a downtown Mall- how did/does that work out. Back in the early 90s there was a lot of money and planning poured into redevolping and restoring the downtown area(old-factories to lofts, offices) former trainstation to shopping/entertainment, restoring/rehabbing old downtown towers, restoring Statehouse) never been back. How does the Indianapolis populationa and economy compare to Detroit?
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Mind_field
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Username: Mind_field

Post Number: 499
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 209.240.205.61
Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 6:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The downtown Indianapolis (circle center) mall is one of the few downtown malls that is successful. That probably has something to do with the fact that Simon Property Group, one of the nation's largest mall operators, is also headquartered in downtown Indy.
IMO, there are very, very few similarities between Detroit and Indy. Indy is much newer, cleaner, less diverse, much less violent, and has a burgeoning trade show/convention business among other things. Indy's metro population is between 1.5-2 million while Detroit's is a little over 5.5 million.

While downtown Indy is quite vibrant, especially for a metro pop of under 2 million, it just feels like a very dense version of suburbia, with some historic buildings mixed in. I'm used to big cities with some grit, like Detroit and Cleveland. That adds character to the urban environment and let's you know that all kinds of differnt people coexist in big cities. The lack of diversity and excessive cleanliness kind of detracted from the you're-in-the-big-city feel of Indianapolis.
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Krapug
Member
Username: Krapug

Post Number: 31
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 24.191.56.146
Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 11:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I forgot to mention in my first post, if you go to the site

www.deadmalls.com

I posted a commentary on the planning, rise and fall of St. Louis Centre.

Ken

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