  Wsukid Member Username: Wsukid Post Number: 133 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.14.145.38 |
City Council in a 7-2 vote saturday night says no to the transfer of control of the zoo. The transfer would have put the zoological society in charge (I think). This was just reported on Channel 4 any thoughts | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 517 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.10.63.140 |
interesting. City will continue to pay for it now.... I think in the long run this will be a good decision, as once the cities finances are in order this will be a nice asset for the city to have.... thats why I dont like the idea of the city selling the Zoo, the water dept, the light dept, the Manoogian, etc. Takes away from the whole "big important city" thing that i like to think of detroit as even through all of its problems and downsizing. I think Detroit will be able to fix this budget. I would guess that revenue will increase for the city now. Seems they are going after tax offenders more now, the new blight and tax court KK set up is catching more of the guys that arent paying. Plus, new residents downtown, the new casinos, and the new businesses should pump it up. Ilitch payed $70 million in taxes last year, and that will keep rising, beyond any inflation of city costs. | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 341 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 35.11.210.161 |
I don't think you really understand the issue the city wasn't selling it, they we're transfering day to day control and funding responsibility, the city would still own it. They did same for the DIA a few years back. Very bad decision on CC's part why should Detroiters be the only people to pay taxes to support the zoo? | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 590 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 68.40.119.216 |
The financial situation was too shaky for them to turn the zoo over. It might have turned into an even bigger liability. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 519 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.10.63.140 |
I knew that the city would have ownership still, but, at leas tfrom the media reports, it sounded as if this put the city one step closer to handing it over to OC as well. | ||
Detrola Member Username: Detrola Post Number: 3 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 69.14.28.209 |
motorcitmayor wrote "interesting. City will continue to pay for it now.... I think in the long run this will be a good decision, as once the cities finances are in order this will be a nice asset for the city to have...." I agree with you Mr. Mayor. The question is where will the C.C. find the funds to operate the zoo until the city is on something even remotely approaching stable financial ground. The proposal was to transfer management of the zoo, NOT OWNERSHIP. The sunday "free press/news, joa, sad little small town paper" quoted one detroit resident "the detroit zoo belongs to the people of detroit" This all too common misperception is part of the problem and serves to illustrate that far too few people realize the dire financial situation the city is in. This refusal to transfer management of the zoo may lead to the eventual sale or closure of the zoo when the city runs out of funds to operate the zoo. If the city has to close it. The zoo will never reopen under city ownership. The cost to bring back the animals and repair the infrastructure that will deteriorate under closure will be more than even a prospering detroit could afford. The other option will be an outright sale of the zoo and it's assets. How will detroiters feel when they bring their kids to the "oakland county zoo". Imagine looking up at the water tower and seeing L. Brooks Patterson's name where K.K.'s name once was. We are standing upon the precipice. Ken Cockrel and Sheila Cockrel voted to take a small step back from the edge. The other members of the clowncil seem all too willing to jump into the void clutching the shiny new laptops they may buy for themselves with the last drops of the city's budget. I would cry but I have no more tears for the city. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 715 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.233.7.222 |
So the two who voted to transfer were the Cockrels? Anyone have the vote? | ||
Blondy Member Username: Blondy Post Number: 962 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.42.176.44 |
Paper said two in favor of giving up the management were the Cockrels. | ||
Jenniferl Member Username: Jenniferl Post Number: 240 Registered: 03-2004 Posted From: 4.229.60.169 |
I know someone who works at the zoo and she expects it will be closed soon, just like the aquarium. Politiks. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 761 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
It will be a very sad day if the zoo closes. Someone needs to step in a fix this one and talk some sense to the council. Look how good the DIA is doing under a similar agreement. | ||
Islandman Member Username: Islandman Post Number: 84 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 68.42.171.59 |
Watching Fox 2 now..they said a spokeman for the mayor's office said the zoo will close, but not right away. Cockrel said they are looking for alternate funding. | ||
Johnberk Member Username: Johnberk Post Number: 43 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.73.196.9 |
I have heard (and this is rumor only at this point) that not only will the Zoo close, but Dossin Museum, Fort Wayne, and the Detroit Historical Museum will close very soon as well. The 3 museums were supposed to be taken over by the Detroit Historical Society, but like the zoo deal, the museum deal is falling apart as well. | ||
Mthouston Member Username: Mthouston Post Number: 36 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 68.32.86.194 |
I would sure hate to see the Zoo suffer from the same fate as the Belle Isle Aquarium. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1809 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.72.180 |
Like I mentioned on the other Zoo thread, SELLING is not an option. Because the land for the zoo and the golf course next door were donated to Detroit by the Rackham family, deed restrictions prevent a sale. If anything, the land would revert back to the Rackham family. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3197 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
The closing of such a large and historic zoo is nearly unheard of, isn't it? It will most definitely make national news if it happens. When a city can't even keep open its most prominent attractions, it really helps to kill the feeling of a "renaissance," doesn't it? Closing the zoo would be more symbolic than anything, but would be a huge blow to the city. | ||
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad Post Number: 3 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
If you can't afford the zoo or cannot run it get rid of it. Kwame and the council have once again shown the area what complete incompetence is all about. The bullshit that the Rackham family will not allow it to exist under other ownership is a complete fraud. | ||
Adamjab19 Member Username: Adamjab19 Post Number: 619 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 24.192.148.148 |
Channel 4 is reporting no more zoo. Seems like it is gone for now. Cancel the school field trips. | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 342 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 35.11.210.161 |
Angry dad how was Kilpatrick incompetent? He wanted to transfer the zoo. After the feel good SB between suburban politicos trying to take over the water dept and council all, but dooming the zoo it's so nice to see a return to the idiotcy that rules politics in SE Michigan | ||
Romanized Member Username: Romanized Post Number: 186 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 71.4.97.70 |
I would feel just fine having my kids go to the "Oakland County Zoo." Why? BECAUSE IT IS IN OAKLAND COUNTY. And how the hell are you going to make a financial decision base on the silly and selfish need to feel important. CC is infected with this nonsense too and that is why this city's budget situation is so utterly screwed. | ||
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad Post Number: 5 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
Where is Kwame? He's not here, he is in Africa surely on the city's dime. Now that's real problem solving. No matter the BS he will put up, closing any facilty while he takes a "business trip" sure stinks to high heaven. No wonder the city is broke. | ||
Iddude313 Member Username: Iddude313 Post Number: 11 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 69.212.38.137 |
we just had the Superbowl. for some reason i thought that we were proving to the world that Detroit is making a comeback? i must be mistaken. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 763 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
Maybe they are hoping something will happen similar to what happened to the Belle Isle Aquarium, where when they announced it would close, donors came forth, not enough, but some. If they did that to the aquarium, maybe they are banking more will come forth if the zoo, with its large attendance would prompt more people with money to come forth. Although all of this is stupid, since there was a perfectly good fix for the zoo, but CC had to once again get in the way and hurt Detroit. For once you cannot blame KK. | ||
Fastcarsfreedom Member Username: Fastcarsfreedom Post Number: 26 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 206.80.249.126 |
A terrible day if the zoo closes. The whole notion that the city should not give up control of the Detroit Zoo is nonsense, and begs the serious question of the priorities of both City Council and the Mayor's Office. The idea that it would come down to sacrificing the zoo instead of giving it a future is utterly tragic, and if it comes down to losing this jewel, everyone involved needs to be held accountable. I am personally a member at the Toledo Zoo--a burgeoning, world-class institution that faced a similiar crisis over 20 years ago. At that time, with the City of Toledo mired in unbelievable economic despair, they made the tough decision to transfer the zoo the Zoological Soceity--and a future of prosperity was born. If the zoo's future is with L. Brooks Patterson or the Zoological Society--then bring on the future. | ||
Islandman Member Username: Islandman Post Number: 85 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 68.42.171.59 |
Am I missing something here? Why can't the tri-county area split the costs of the zoo and call the damn thing the Metro Detroit Zoo and be done with it. It would also be interesting to see a demographic layout of zoo attendees. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 976 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.73.207.58 |
Article: Council declines to give up zoo control http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20060219/METRO /602190404&SearchID=7323617209 5062 | ||
Matt_the_deuce Member Username: Matt_the_deuce Post Number: 506 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.248.252 |
It is my understanding that KK wants to transfer the zoo to the Zoological institute. This one is on the council. Hopefully we will hear soon their reasoning for the no vote. Politics as usual in this disfuntional region... | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 84 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 4.229.81.108 |
Can the mayor veto this? | ||
Matt_the_deuce Member Username: Matt_the_deuce Post Number: 507 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.248.252 |
Is this just a bunch of posturing? Is there any way another vote can be held? Sounds like this battle is just beginning. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 85 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 4.229.81.108 |
I found this on the zoo site. It is from last summer but mentions funding issues. http://www.detroitzoo.org/News flashes/Announcements/Letter_f rom_New_Chairman_of_the_Board/ | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 521 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.10.63.140 |
I think the possibility of the zoo closing was certainly downplayed, at least in the media. I think had people known that the zoo would be closing, there would have been more of an outrage and the council would have reacted differently. I was under the impression that either way the zoo would be open, because of an agreement with the State that $5.5 million would be paid by the city or the controlling partner. Now that the facts are rolling out, this doesnt not seem too good. The Cockrels are the 2 on city council thatr I really respect, and if they were both against it, there must be something to it. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 717 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.233.7.222 |
My opinion is that they're playing "the zoo is closing" card today so the Council will reconsider their vote tomorrow. Or L Brooks' people are putting together a plan to buy it outright and commissioning a painter. I think Oakland County Zoo has a ring to it, eh? | ||
Alexei289 Member Username: Alexei289 Post Number: 1039 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.61.183.223 |
When I was watching channel 4 they said that they rejected the offer from the zoological society because the city cannot afford 5.5 million$ per year after transfering the management... So basically even the offer to transfer the ownership is something that the city cannot afford... This region has their priorities literally up their ass, and is so disfunctional that we should all be on Jerry Springer. Why not give people LESS of a reason to stay here... that might help put the city on better financial ground. Are you telling me there isnt money that they can cut somewhere else??? Why not just figure out how to get more for your $$ instead... and stop pretending that you cant eliminate redundancy and improve productivity of city services... thats the key issue. Making thing functional saves $$... Cutting shit like this fuks this region pretty hard... and like any of the rich ass babyboomers who wont go south of 12 mile give a fuk... | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3202 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
I want you guys to read this op-ed piece in the Lansing State Journal. The lack of regionalism in most of Michigan as a whole is a disease that has been taking our breath away since 1947 when the new Michigan Constitution was drawn up setting in place home rule, and chartered townships, easily two of the nails in the coffins in terms of regionalism: On cities: Forum lessons - state's out to lunch; services still matter The refusal to work together is plaguing my city in that Lansing and Ingham County pay for Capital City Airport, yet the other two counties (one of which the airport is located in) does not pay, but use the airport. | ||
Nellonfury Member Username: Nellonfury Post Number: 101 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 68.43.156.135 |
WHAT!!!! The Detroit Zoo is on the line?? The suburbs should own the zoo, not Detroit since the city is going through budget cuts. Ever since this budget crap happens, KILLpatrick and his seven dwarfs wants to close everything down that our city haves. Soon Detroit won't have NOTHING if this keep up! THE CITY IS SMOKING CRACK!!!! | ||
Leoqueen Member Username: Leoqueen Post Number: 1062 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
All of this gives me a royal pain in my azz. The city council needs to do WHATEVER in order to keep the Zoo open. Bottom line. All of these folks could work together to have a 4 day holiday for the out-of-towners for the Super Bowl; now they need to do SOMETHING to insure that the Zoo does not close! What's next?? Okay, so the Mayor gave them an ultamatim. He can close the Zoo, and will. Look at the experience of the Aquarium. If we lose the animals they will not come back. I am so angry. It seems that EVERYTHING we care about that has to do with the prolonged quality of life around here is dying, and being replaced by Loftominiums!! | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 115 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Duh! Selling or losing assets is a prelude for a spendthrift to experience just before foreclosure or bankruptcy. So why should Detroit be different? At least KK will or already has let go six more fire trucks and shuffled its personnel. Something has to happen with Detroit's bloated city workforce. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 2702 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.249.240.150 |
... and the zookeeper is very fond of rum... | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 524 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.212.169.194 |
It would be very sad indeed to lose the Zoo.... however, does all the worry over finances mean that the Zoo does not currently support itself? If not, why not? | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 765 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
I know we have not heard the final word on this matter. Like I said, it was a shame that the Belle Isle Aquarium closed, but with the zoo having the attendance it does, people are not just going to let it go away quietly. You thought there was a fight with the Aquarium, wait till the zoo is involved. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 3726 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.235 |
What a terrible decision for the city "CLOWNSIL" to make. The Detroit Zoo is the last barless zoological park in all of Metro-Detroit area. After 95 years the " CLOWNSIL" will finally close its doors. There's another way to save the zoo! SELL IT!!! (Message edited by danny on February 20, 2006) | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 3727 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.235 |
The whole Detroit city " CLOWNSIL" is like one big Detroit Zoo. Can't even solve its own budget crisis. Recievership and suburban control is just around the corner. This those folks who are in city county building will running out the door like animals. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1617 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.164.127 |
My problem is if the CC can't handle something as small as giving up control of the zoo but still retaining ownership how are they going to handle the big decisions? Like eliminating departments because Detroit can’t pay their bills. CC is going to have to realize that there is no magical money tree to shake behind the CY building. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 86 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 67.107.47.65 |
Tuesday, February 21, 2006 City Council Community Evening Meeting Location: Detroit Youthville 7375 Woodward Avenue Detroit, Michigan 48202 I wonder if there will be a big turnout to protest the zoo vote? | ||
Blondy Member Username: Blondy Post Number: 964 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.212.173.138 |
Is starting a letter writing campaign/phone call campaign to Council worth it at this point? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 116 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Whom are you going to get to read them to them? | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 766 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
I think anything that can be done should be done. Our region cannot lose the zoo. It is something that has brought people to the Detroit area to visit for generations. The money it has put into our local economy is not to be taken lightly. This is a community gem that cannot be lost. | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 10 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.227.102.82 |
Detroit wants to be a world class city, but to do that they need to have attractions to bring people in. I think it would be a huge mistake to close the zoo or the museums. | ||
1630 Member Username: 1630 Post Number: 29 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 209.69.165.10 |
I really don't care what happens to the zoo. With the demise of bulk pickup I am ALREADY looking at several neigbhors' yards and driveways filling up with rubbish and looking forward to a long difficult summer. (RATS!!) Council needs to realize its job right now is overseeing an orderly retreat from many of the things which made Detroit a major city. If there's no money for bulk pickup - a departed service which will create a crisis within months -I don't see how there can be money to continue the zoo. We're going to have to learn to separate needs from wants. | ||
Brandon48202 Member Username: Brandon48202 Post Number: 67 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.221.78.226 |
Even dinky cities like Toledo and Grand Rapids have Zoos. That's awful that a region such as ours with 5 MM people can't support a zoo! | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 381 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 64.79.90.206 |
Please tell me what our Mayor is doing on Safari in Africa when these things are hapening in his city? | ||
Bertz Member Username: Bertz Post Number: 506 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.61.15.89 |
partying | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 343 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 35.11.210.161 |
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20060220/UPDAT E/602200399 Another gem from BRC this so pathetic | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 869 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 198.208.159.20 |
dear city council, people just want to go to the damn zoo, is that too much to ask? | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 527 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 69.246.5.196 |
I think council needs to have a recess and reflect on the things that make an enjoyable city. Already we've lost the damn aquarium, then bulk trash pick up, and now the damn zoo. What are the tax dollars going to exactly? | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1618 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
To pay fat union salaries, healthcare and pensions. It is only going to get worse. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1619 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060220/NEW S11/60220012 Late News from Freep | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2313 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.228.0.238 |
Perhaps BRC should feel "pressured" by laid off city workers, laid off police/fire/ems, pay cuts/benefit reductions for those still employed, lack of bulk trash pickup, hundreds of millions dollars in budget deficit, near junk bond status, eroding tax base as 1,000 residents per month leave, etc. instead of blaming anything and everything else under the sun for "losing control" of (insert Detroit matter here). "In honor" of Black History Month...yet another completely unwarranted slavery analogy in order to promote one's own agenda. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6804 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
Interesting. I guess it may not have been a great deal for the city. Here is the chance for the region as a whole to offer up the $10MM. Of course regional cooperation is always contingent upon it being beneficial for others. If the best deal calls for the city dishing out $10 MM I say shutter it. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 91 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 67.107.47.65 |
Why wasn't this made a regional zoo a long time ago? Like say in the beginning, since it was built in Royal Oak! | ||
Nellonfury Member Username: Nellonfury Post Number: 102 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 68.43.156.135 |
I agree Pam. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 15 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 67.38.87.62 |
quote: "Interesting. I guess it may not have been a great deal for the city. Here is the chance for the region as a whole to offer up the $10MM." Perhaps the region can tack on a couple million to pay for empty SMART busses in Livonia. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6807 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
The region is paying for SMART, Livonia opts out of service and does not get that service. The zoo is different as the city funds additional costs but it is open to everyone at the same price. Your argument is completely wrong on this topic. | ||
Blondy Member Username: Blondy Post Number: 966 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.212.173.138 |
So is there a "Save the Detroit Zoo" group started yet? | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 16 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 67.38.87.62 |
Yet at present, 150 City of Detroit employees work at the zoo. Detroit opts out of ZOO, zoo closes, what happens to 150 employees? The SMART employees are still driving. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6808 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
That has nothing to do with your original argument. The city has too many employees and I am fine with them cutting non-essential services. Regardless who works at the zoo the city of Detroit was the only governmental entity subsidizing it although it is open to all. Add in the fact that there is no, zero, nada spin off business in the city of Detroit and tell me how you can justify implying that the residents of Detroit aren't getting the shaft. But I guess as long as it keeps your taxes a fraction of a mill cheaper it is a great deal. I say give the region the option to fund the zoo equally so when the tax gets rejected it will be the fault of the region for the closure, not the city. | ||
Gdub Member Username: Gdub Post Number: 980 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.221.78.226 |
Zookeepers and curators will likely have to change careers or change addresses, since aside from a gig at Petsmart or whatever it's not like there's another local zoo they can transfer to. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 183 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.2.191.57 |
A long history: http://info.detnews.com/histor y/story/index.cfm?id=204&categ ory=locations | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 344 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 35.11.210.161 |
This keeps getting more and more interesting. If this was the deal then it's an entirely different story. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2314 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.228.0.238 |
"...the city of Detroit was the only governmental entity subsidizing it..." Jt1, that point is inaccurate. See State of Michigan. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6812 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
Amended (although I don't know how much the State puts in). "...the city of Detroit was the only city or county governmental entity subsidizing it..." Does that change the point at all that Detroiters take a higher burden for the zoo than anyone else? | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 345 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 35.11.210.161 |
I think the State money is in the 600K range. Nowhere near the 4 million/yr for Detroit. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 17 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 67.38.87.62 |
Jt1: I agree with everything you say about the region paying for ( and NOT the city of Detroit being the only ones paying for ) the zoo. My comment about SMART ( not belonging in this thread, but refering to your statements previously ) was meant to point out that some things are deeper than they appear on the front page. The zoo is an attraction, not a service and should be run as a business. If ran right it could post profits. Please look at the amount of donations and corporate sponsers not from Detroit on the zoo's website and add them to your figures. My argument is not about Detroit wanting the tax burden to go away, but the thought of the zoo itself closing down.The zoo IS bigger than Detroit, but again, the name represents Detroit, and always will, present and future. The City of Detroit has the keys. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2315 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.228.0.238 |
I'm not completely buying that argument Jt1. 1. The city contributes about $3.6M, while the State and private sources such as the DZS account for about 7.6 of the zoo budget. 2. Zoo patrons constitute far more non-Detroiters than city residents. 3. In a financial sense, "Detroiters" includes suburbanites who own property in the city, suburbanites working in the city and paying city income taxes, and companies located in the city (with many suburban owners, workers, etc.) paying property taxes. 4. City residents that rent and/or receive aid and/or are unemployed are a substantial bloc of Detroiters. People in those catagories aren't paying income and/or property taxes thus significantly diminishing/elimnating a whole bloc of Detroiters "share of the zoo burden". 5. Private sources of zoo funding (about $7M, the largest portion) are pretty much non-Detroit based. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 18 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 67.38.87.62 |
Well said MDG | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6813 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
That is donation by choice, not forced through taxes. Metro - For someone that argues for financial responsibility you seem to criticize any and every cut the city makes. The city and the cities residents are forced to pay for the zoo through their taxes. People that attend the zoo, donate to the zoo willingly do so. When I pay my taxes the money should support essential services not subsidize others trips to the zoo. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2316 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.228.0.238 |
Jt1, I am absolutely in favor of the transfer of the zoo's day-to-day ops and fundraising to the DZS. Does donation by choice change the point at all that non-Detroiters account for more of the funding for the zoo than Detroiters? And as I have previously pointed out, bulk trash pick is an essential service and I am certainly critical of that cut. I pointed out ways the city could have saved tens of millions in many other areas. That would have been true fiscal responsibility. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8128 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.48.209.177 |
jt1, If all you want is essential services then you are missing out on what city living has to offer. These amenities and more are what makes a cosmopolitan city worth living in. If all you want are essential servies paid through your taxes then culturally all cities would die. Is that what you want? If so, bulldoze all those old buildings, get rid of the DEGC and any other "non-essential" services and live in your homogenized world. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6814 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
Not at all my point. I want all of the wonderful services possible. But right now, the city's financial situation calls for cuts or we go bankrupt and can't pay police, fire, EMS etc. There is a wish list and there is reality. I wish my home were a mansion in Indian Village. I hope to get there one day. I do not have the money so I live in a house I can afford. Sorry if my realism hit a nerve with some people. When the city can fund the zoo, DIA, MAAH, etc then I will be the first in line but right now I do not support spending money to support a regional atraction that should be funded regionally. Do people believe in the reality of finances and the fact that some services are required and some need to be cut. UNfortunately we are at a point where things need to be cut. Reality can be a bitch and this forum tends to lean away from it all to often when it comes to money. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6815 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
MDG - I don't disagree that the city has a lot of low hanging fruit for cuts and need to be more aggresive. I am concerned about the $10 MM the city would be on the hook for if the ops were transferred. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8129 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.48.209.177 |
Jt1, cutting those amenities is one thing, doing away with them all together is another. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2317 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.228.0.238 |
Jt1, the $10M would be a short term hook (spread out over a couple of yrs) for a long term solution. Also, yes there is absolutely low hanging fruit, but also some big doozies out there (where money could have been saved) over the last several years, as well as currently. | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 870 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 198.208.159.20 |
somewhere there should be one of those number counting boards, like the one in NYC that carries the mounting national debt....except this one should be in front of the CAYC and the OCMC that list # of families driven from SE Michigan because of evaporating or non-existant regional services/amenities | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 527 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.10.63.140 |
Channel 7 is accepting donations on behalf of the Detroit Zoological Society. Keep the zoo open!! Donate if u can! | ||
Mrsjdaniels Member Username: Mrsjdaniels Post Number: 152 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 70.141.78.103 |
I have heard (and this is rumor only at this point) that not only will the Zoo close, but Dossin Museum, Fort Wayne, and the Detroit Historical Museum will close very soon as well. The 3 museums were supposed to be taken over by the Detroit Historical Society, but like the zoo deal, the museum deal is falling apart as well. --------- not a rumor at all...veyr true...they were working on the same deal, just take out zoo and add historical museum i only hope you taxpayers make the city you give your millage money back for the 2001 vote for $10 mill for the museum | ||
Cassie1717 Member Username: Cassie1717 Post Number: 26 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
Are there any surviving members of the Rackham family left and if so, do they have any input? | ||
Johnberk Member Username: Johnberk Post Number: 44 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.73.196.9 |
The Museums have an appeal for donations on their website as well: For more than 75 years, the Detroit Historical Society and the City of Detroit have worked together to preserve the vibrant history of Southeastern Michigan for future generations. With recent City budget cuts, the Society has been asked to assume greater responsibility for the funding and operations of the three Detroit Historical Museums and we need the help of the entire community to make that possible! We need your help today to ensure that three cultural treasures – the Detroit Historical Museum, the Dossin Great Lakes Museum and Historic Fort Wayne – remain open to the public. Note that all gifts made before June 30, 2006 will be matched dollar for dollar by the Masco Corporation Foundation. Please visit the following link for more information, to make an online donation, print a donation form, or become a member of the Detroit Historical Society: http://www.detroithistorical.o rg/sponsors/index.asp | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 528 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.10.63.140 |
ahh the Masco Foundation. Mr. Manoogian continuing to contribute to this city! | ||
Pjazz Member Username: Pjazz Post Number: 22 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.212.63.169 |
I don't know all the details, but if paying 10 million over 2 years and not have to worry about it after that I think would be worth it. I'm sure after that the zoological society could raise funding after that just like the Dia has done. It seems Council feels there ideas are more important than the mayor or anyone else. I heard that Detroit is one of three citys that still manage their Zoo. | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 346 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 35.11.210.161 |
What's about today how would that help solve the budget crisis. IF the $10 million thing is true then CC should've rejected it why should Detroit give up control and still keeping paying it'd be pointless. I've no problem with the city giving up of control, we shouldn't be in the zoo business, as long as we stop being it's major government funding source (Message edited by eric on February 20, 2006) (Message edited by eric on February 20, 2006) | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 3302 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.37.83.203 |
Where is this stat? The zoo does not ask for home address when you pay admission. Would this number be different if the Zoo were in the city? Interesting that Freman supporters support KK on this move. If this were stated before november, the vote may have been different. Interesting that this action is the preferred action. Perhaps Detroit should serve beer like they do at other zoos. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4689 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.175.233 |
Which city? Brighton? | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 347 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 35.11.210.161 |
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060220/NEW S05/602200402 I'm suprised this wasn't mentioned earlier from this mornings article. This makes things even more complitcated the City still would be on the hook for 900K though we'd save $3.1 million. Not as good a deal as advertised could it be that council is holding out for the DZS to be fully responsible for all cost? (Message edited by eric on February 20, 2006) | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 2710 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.236.188.103 |
Brian, Freeman (Helmut to you) lost the election. Give it up! Try to understand, we accept Kwame won. He now needs to show us he can lead this City. There are many difficult issues to be addressed ....and soon. Not just an election to be won. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 529 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.10.63.140 |
No, Aram, ya see some people in the suburbs actually support Detroit, like myself. I know u find it amusing to point out that I live in Brighton...haha funny funny. Thing is, I would rather be living in Detroit, and I am sure there are plenty of Detroiters that would like to live in a nice, safe, suburb like Brighton. | ||
Jasoncw Member Username: Jasoncw Post Number: 120 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 148.61.248.170 |
How much would the zoo admission need to rise to cover what the city pays? based on how many people visit the zoo and how much the city pays. | ||
Nip Member Username: Nip Post Number: 47 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.74.10.230 |
Last night on channel 7, I saw a clip of a council woman (whom I'm not familiar with) making a statement about how she's not going to transfer control of the zoo, just because the "white man" wants her to... She also made a statement about how "she doesn't care that white people think black people can't govern a city", or something to that effect. Did anyone see this? WTF? | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 93 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 67.107.47.65 |
Barbara Rose Collins. See the "You knew this was coming" topic for discussion of her remarks. | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2736 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 136.181.195.65 |
Anybody have a link to Brooks Patterson's "monkey" comment? He apparently said something like "Detroit City Councilmembers are a bunch of monkeys who should be put in a zoo." I don't know if this was on tv or in a newspaper. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 771 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
For once I have to agree with L Brooks, the CC is a joke. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 95 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 67.107.47.65 |
What an ass. Nice non-helpful comment by LBP. How about doing something to save the zoo instead? (Message edited by Pam on February 21, 2006) | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2737 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 136.181.195.65 |
Bob, did you pause for even a milli-second before typing that reply? How is calling anyone a monkey appropriate, especially an African-American person? | ||
Ro_resident Member Username: Ro_resident Post Number: 147 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 63.85.13.248 |
The quote was in Neal Rubin's column: "The people on this council belong in the zoo, not deciding the fate of the zoo." http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20060221/LIFES TYLE/602210407/1005/LIFESTYLE0 1 Between Collins and LBP, the euphoria from the Super Bowl lasted, what, 2 weeks? | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 2714 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.250.8.253 |
H-steve, You're the one that jumped the gun on this one. I'm not a big fan of LBP, but I would have searched out his actual comments prior to posting. | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 872 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 198.208.159.20 |
no mention of "monkey's" there... this whole debacle is now linked to from the drudge report dot com | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2738 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 136.181.195.65 |
Jams, that's why I put the words "apparently" and "something like" in my original request for a link to the quote. Until RO_resident came through (thanks!), I had only heard about the comment in a round-about way. I'll restate my question to Bob, if it makes you feel better: Bob, since when it is appropriate to say any human should live in a zoo, especially an African-American? | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 382 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 64.79.90.206 |
Bing Crosby famously sang: "All the monkeys aren't in the zoo- Every day you meet quite a few" I think there's a lot of truth to that phrase in general. | ||
Track75 Member Username: Track75 Post Number: 2225 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 12.75.24.82 |
Also from LBP's mouth: The idea of having the zoo transferred to our regional parks group, the HCMA, makes sense. HCMA funding comes from the entire metro area. The problem is that even if Detroit can't/won't fund the operation of the zoo, I can't imagine them transferring ownership to anyone. On the flip side, I can't see a regional group wanting to fund the zoo's operation without control over the zoo. So around and around we go. Do I get a refund on my annual family pass if the zoo closes? Nice to see LBP's an equal opportunity offender (his parting shot at Warren CC). | ||
Gogo Member Username: Gogo Post Number: 1253 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
I think what is lost in all of this is that Detroit tax payers have been footing the bill for the Detroit Zoo and other regional assets for many years now while our suburban counter parts enjoy lower property taxes. An awefully large burden for the regions poorest city to bear. With so much attention on the closing and what a terrible thing Detroit is doing, why isnt any attention being placed on all the communities which don't have millages to subsidize the Zoo so that it wouldn't close. Detroit can't bear this burden alone, and yet it is being ridiculed when the tough decision need to be made. Where the f*ck was everyone else proposing regional millages to support these gems years ago? They were smug with their low property taxes. | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2744 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 136.181.195.65 |
"Where the f*ck was everyone else proposing regional millages to support these gems years ago?" They were busy voting "NO" on the arts tax, that's where they were. | ||
Track75 Member Username: Track75 Post Number: 2226 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 12.75.24.82 |
Prop K was inherently flawed in that it only included Oakland and Wayne counties. Macomb was a "free rider". I think a tri-county Zoo-only tax would pass if the alternative was no Zoo. Nevertheless, the misalignment of usage, funding and control spells trouble for regional assets in a polarized region. | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 2517 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.251.27.41 |
<-----------Really thinks Ham Steve is a long lost twin brother... | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2746 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 136.181.195.65 |
Thanks for the compliment, Zulu! | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1014 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.42.251.225 |
All I hear and read is zoo-zoo-zoo. What about the opertions of the Detroit Historical Society and the Dossin Museum? I thought they faced the same problems, and the same time-constraints as the zoo. They have seemingly fallen by the wayside in the crusade to save the animals. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3144 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
The Rock tells it like it tis. Save all the Detroit museums and our legacy. jjaba, Westsider. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1186 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.51 |
Why should the suburbs save Detroit museums. It's not their history that's being talked about, it's only the city of Detroit's history. All contents of the museum stop their references and relvance at 8 Mile and Telegraph. We all know the suburbs would still be the prospering, wholesome, safe places they are today without Detroit, even if Detroit hadn't been the center of the Industrial Revolution. Who needs that scary, crime ridden city anyways. And besides, it requires too much thinking to go to those ugly buildings that are full of graffiti, broken windows, and people who aren't white (the whole city's like that you know!). Give me my low taxes, strip malls and kids who don't ask so many questions and keep your cultural thingies. The zoo however, that is worth saving. It's in the suburbs so you know it's safe. Secondly you can bring your kids to it and they don't have to think very hard while they're there. They just look at all the cute little animals while rolling along in their strollers and wagons. I also seem to remember some white guy working there in some sort of supervisory position so it's probably run real well then. Any more reasons folks can think of why the Burton Collection, Historical Museum, Aquarium, etc. aren't worth a regional tax but the zoo now somehow is? | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2320 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.221.64.175 |
Brian, only in your world would 895,000 or so Detroit residents be more likely to make up the majority of patrons of a venue than the 4 Million or so other residents of the region. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3590 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
http://www.petitiononline.com/ detzoo/petition.html | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6822 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
HCMA would not touch it and the city has already asked for help on Belle Isle and the State Fair. HCMA politely told them 'give us your .25 mill and fuck off expecting any assistance'
Gogo gets it, why don't the people from the suburbs? If you want it approve a tax. Funny how LBP says that OC does not want to fund it then mentions HCMA that won't. That is a nice out for him and the media lets him slide. The misinfomration of the media and the 'how dare they' attitude from those that do not pay taxes to support the zoo is an absolute fucking joke. How about we divert all Detroit payed HCMA tax (about $4-5 MM annually) to support the zoo and our dollars do not support regional parks that are out of reach of many Detroiters. How would that go over. I don't want to see the zoo go but the 'keep my taxes low but how dare Detroit not fund this' can go fuck off. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2324 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.221.69.189 |
Here we go again..."Detroit" tax payers footing the bill for regional assets is a greatly exagerrated myth. It is the latest talking point that only serves as a(nother) divisive instrument. Yes there should be a regional millage to support regional assets, however, there should also be REGIONAL control. You can't have it both ways. Most people (including many Detroiters) aren't going to pony up more money that will be controlled by the likes of KK and the city council. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6828 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
So you supported the people that rejected the arts tax. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2325 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.221.69.189 |
So you want equal regional financial contributions with Detroit control? Again, can't have it both ways. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1440 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
I disagree. It is the truth that counters the normal assumption of many in the area that suburban tax money subsidizes the city. The truth is that subsidy flows both ways, and the whole region is worse off for it.
I agree. This proposal was not about giving up control so that the region could pay for it. It unfortunately was only to give away most control in exchange for giving up most funding. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6829 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
Nope, no Detroit control but not a single dollar more from Detroiters than anyone else. That was not the case with this 'deal' | ||
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad Post Number: 7 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
Exactly what is the logic of a city council closing the zoo rather than losing control of it? The art of bargaining requires one party to make consessions. In this case neither the Mayor or council have any leverage. They're broke. This battle is like watching football game between two teams trying to lose their way into a draft pick. Face it folks the real solution is for Detroit to walk away. Sorry but as much as it will hurt your pride common sense says give this "jewel" away. Man it's gonna piss off Kwame to see L Brooks have that water tower painted but I'll gladly hold the ladder. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1442 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
Not that I agree with their decision, but I bet the continued multi-million dollar financial commitment had something to do with it. That and a belief that they can still get something worked out to keep it open. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2326 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.221.69.189 |
Again, take a look at who and what really constitutes "Detroit" taxpayers. The truth is that a lot of suburban dollars actually make up Detroit tax revenue...The truth is that a lot of Detroiters (that some on this site are allegedly speaking for) don't really contribute to the tax revenues in question...The truth is that this wasn't about saving Detroit $10M over the next couple of years | ||
Marelis Member Username: Marelis Post Number: 16 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 207.148.209.238 |
Angry_Dad, they are not proposing the City gives up ownership of the zoo, just hand over the day to day operations of it to the Detroit Zoological Society (which is supported, financially, by much of the "old money" in the region). No water tower painting necessary! | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1443 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
You mean Detroit, the city with one of the highest home ownership rates of large cities anywhere in the country? Or do you mean Detroit, the city with huge companies headquarted in the city, that own vast land and expensive buildings. Or do you mean, Detroit, the city in that country that doesn't allocate votes by the amount of taxes, but rather the number of citizens. A couple of absentee slumlords does not a taxpayerless city make. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2327 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.221.69.189 |
Jsmyers, the continued obligation (after the $10M for capital improvements, spread out over a couple of years comes from a seperate fund and was already approved by Detroit taxpayers) was $1M per year for security. I'm sure something could be worked out to relieve Detroit of that relatively minor obligation. Then again, this isn't really about any of that. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6830 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
MDG - Have Detroiters ever paid for anything. The "Detroit taxpayers" crap is nonsense. I have properties that are not in Detroit. I do not demand a say in their elections as I am not a resident. Do the people that pay income taxes in Pontiac demand a voice in how Pontiac dollars are spent. Using the income tax/landlord argument is non sense and you know it. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2328 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.221.69.189 |
JT1, we're not talking about "a say in elections" nor "a say in how dollars are spent", and you know that. Making Detroit tax dollars out to be money that comes from only Detroit residents and/or all Detroit residents is nonsense and you know it. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6831 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
OK - Can you agree with this: Detroit residents are the only ones that are exclusively screwed across the board by paying for the 'regional' institutions. Some others may be but Detroiters are the only group that are all taxed. Feel better now? | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1444 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
The fact is that is that tax money collected from one unit of government should be used for a public purpose helping the citizens in that unit of government. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6832 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
Thank you for clarifying it and stating it better than I have. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2329 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.221.69.189 |
No Jt1 I don't agree that rewording the same faulty argument makes it into something with merit. Feel better now? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6833 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
No I don't. It is difficult dealing with someone that can't see something as simple as the fact that Detroiters shouldn't be the only group exclusively taxed to support entertainment venues for others. MDG - I am thinking of going to the movies this weekend. I expect you to pay half my ticket price. Based upon your logic it is perfectly fair. Do you want to know where to send the money. | ||
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad Post Number: 8 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
You want to raise funds for the zoo? Auction off the "privilege" of painting that water tower. Let me tell you a story about the zoo. I went with my kid on field trips for years. I also got my dog there. I parked in the zoo lot. Have any of you? The parking lot sums up the current incompetence of the parties currently "running" the place. They try to charge you for parking as you leave. Not after you get a ticket on entry, just a random "you owe us" method. There is money being generated but who knows who is putting it in who's pocket. BTW, the parking "attendant" has been on break so often I can't remember when I've paid. Part of the problem with the zoo isn't just funding, it's the administration. It's incompetent. The people caring for the animals appear to be dedicated and trully caring but the service people are usually goofing off. I still can't see how just changing how the funding for this year or next will change things unless the administration kicks some ass of the service people. Changing ownership will solve that. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2330 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.141.183.193 |
JT1, repeating a flawed argument over and over doesn't suddenly give it merit. Neither does re-wording it. Difficult indeed. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 6834 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 216.203.223.108 |
Difficult indeed dealing with someone so foolish. Continue with your contributions of stalking I love Detroit. If you are unable to engage in the argument and explain where it is flawed you are just showing that you have no argument. I'm done with you but I am guessing (regardless of your past claims) that it isn't your tax dollars going to the zoo. | ||
Gambling_man Member Username: Gambling_man Post Number: 660 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 199.178.193.5 |
Does anyone know how big (acreage) the Detroit Zoo is? I would be interested to know how much the property would be worth for development.....I'm sure a huge sum of money, considering it's location. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 194 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.2.191.57 |
Looks like about 0.8 mile on the south and 0.4 mile on the west in Google Earth. I'd guess about 0.15² miles. (Message edited by Jimaz on February 21, 2006) | ||
Track75 Member Username: Track75 Post Number: 2231 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 12.75.21.47 |
~125 acres I believe. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 195 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.2.191.57 |
Most of it's in Huntington Woods, if that matters. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2337 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.248.7.18 |
Jt1, let the name-calling, changing the subject, getting your facts wrong (note several claims you made about me a couple of weeks ago and now), repeating/rewording the same flawed argument begin! | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 3303 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.37.83.28 |
Again its interesting that those who supported Freman are now speaking against the city of Detroit. Detroiters already spend millions each year supporting state parks that are no where near Detroit. This was the supposed reason for the riverfront park. Perhaps that park could have been traded in for financial assistance for the Zoo or for Belle Isle. But the problem is that state dollars and suburban SUPPORT always come with strings attached. The CC said no more strings. Provide a straight forward deal and they will give it true consideration. | ||
Commodore64 Member Username: Commodore64 Post Number: 188 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.65.11.254 |
I would hope a re-worked Proposal K could be brought to the voters. I would include more surrounding counties, not just Wayne and Oakland. I have many memories going to the Zoo, and would hate to see it closed down. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2339 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.174 |
Interesting that KK supporters such as Brian aren't using racist rhetoric to criticize their man the same way that some of them criticized Archer/Hendrix for the successful (same type of) transfer of the DIA. Funny that I'm actually giving KK some credit on this one (although he still managed to screw it up as well) while Brian continues to show that he is really against the well-being of Detroit, and only out to promote his separatist agenda. (Message edited by metrodetguy on February 21, 2006) |
