 
Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485
Post Number: 2346
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 199.74.87.131
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 11:26 am: |    |
Best comments from the Detroit Free Press....
Posted by Wendy | Feb 22, 2006 10:10:35 AM
I start by saying I am a white suburbanite, so I'm not trying to pull some "race card." My comments in no way are meant as an endorsement of Barbara-Rose Collins, nor do I believe that the city counsel made the right decision. But I completely agree with Emily Minns of Birmingham, whose thoughtful letter was published in the paper today. The fact is, in 2002 the suburbs voted against funding the zoo. That's right--it was a ballot proposal that lost! No one seem to realize this. All of this talk about how the suburbs should be running the show are a little bit late. While the city counsel may be misguided, we were the ones who were so shortsighted as to not vote to support this gem four years ago.
Also, it seems to me the same people who have been virulently criticizing city counsel for not overseeing Kwame Kilpatrick's spending and cronyism are the ones most critical of city counsel's refusal to rubber stamp an 11th hour proposal that would force them to pay 10 million dollars that could be used for streetlights and roads. Ask yourself this, would you agree to a plan given to you at 4:45 pm on Friday by an administration known to enter into bad deals and waste money? Wouldn't you be a bit suspicious and want a bit more time to fully consider the ramifications? If this were an exclusive city contract under the same circumstances, we would have skewered city counsel if they didn't ask for more time.
Life is not always tidy and sometimes we have to work with people we don't respect or with whom we don't agree. But we'll never get anything done without a little persuasion and finesse. Let's just try to get city counsel to come around and then move on.
Posted by Gerald | Feb 22, 2006 10:00:16 AM
I think that this thing has been blown way out of proportion. City Council has due dilengence responsibilities and the Administration wants to get the deal done ASAP. Let's all give them a chance to do what we elected them to do! Let's not incite the public and make this a front page story while Americans are being spied on by the NSA, war is raging overseas and foreign countries are gaining control of our major ports. Let's keep focus, people!
Posted by Barbara Bass | Feb 22, 2006 9:59:08 AM
We have lost two children in two weeks to gun shots...WHERE IS THE COMMUNITY OUTCRY ON THIS ISSUE???
WAKE UP MICHIGAN!!!
|
Susanarosa
Member
Username: Susanarosa
Post Number: 726
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 208.39.170.77
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 11:45 am: | |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the $10 million dollars in Capital Funds. Capital Funds that are earmarked to pay for the zoo and can only be used to pay for the zoo? |
Gildas
Member
Username: Gildas
Post Number: 398
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 147.240.236.9
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 11:58 am: | |
The initial post was thoughtful and well written, however, what does the NSA, War, and our ports, of which Detroit is not one of them have to do with our regional inability to govern ourselves and make decisions on something as simple as a zoo? |
Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell
Post Number: 2307
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.167.211.61
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 1:09 pm: | |
Excellent Letter by 'Wendy'. It cuts to the chase. There are a number in our family of communities that want all the goodies from Detroit, but do not want share any of of its burdens from funding to insurance to the homeless. |
Rasputin
Member
Username: Rasputin
Post Number: 3490
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 1:40 pm: | |
Agreed, Lowell ..... here's 1 from right here:
quote:Bongman
Member
Username: Bongman
Post Number: 947
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 198.111.56.128
Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 8:55 am:
------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------
Detroit wins hands-down on this whole discussion in my mind, and this whole dilemna is a perfect example of what ails our entire region.
My city not only can't afford a Zoo, it can't afford to run a museum of any type. It also can't put a $10 million dollar Renoir on display either. We have no aquarium. I live a 1/4 mile from the lake, and there's no Great Lakes Museum here either. Truth be told, we don't even have a functioning library.
You can spin it any way you want, but the truth of the matter is that Detroit suburbs do not supply culture to their citizens, and the main reason why is because we don't have to. We suck off the City of Detroit. It's time for the Suburbs to contribute their fair share for the services they use.
btw: there was more to the disagreement with the MoA than just the closing of the Zoo, as the media reported it!!
Black-atcha ..... |
Gildas
Member
Username: Gildas
Post Number: 400
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 147.240.236.9
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 2:04 pm: | |
For once (I think) Ras and I are in total agreement, except for the "Black-atcha" part. There are many white residents of the city who pay taxes to support the cultural attractions that make our city what it is.
I also do not like the burbs complaining about issues such as the zoo closing and voting down a millage to help fund it. This is one area where they cannot have it both ways, and neither should we. The region should run the zoo, but will we ever come to an agreement on it..unlikely. |
Thnk2mch
Member
Username: Thnk2mch
Post Number: 23
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 67.38.87.62
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 3:08 pm: | |
Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 305
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.139
Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 3:48 pm:
------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------
Looks like the zoo issue is just another wedge being driven into the Detroit/Suburban and White/Black matters. Sigh.
MLK Jr. said: "We must all learn to live together as brothers, or we will all perish together -- as fools." |
Angry_dad
Member
Username: Angry_dad
Post Number: 9
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 5:36 pm: | |
Enough is enough.
The city clownsil and Kwame can blame everybody else but never take responsibilty.
After seeing and hearing the utter garbage from Baa Baa Raa Rose Collins and the bar wench Conyers, I am quickly adjusting to the idea of driving to Toledo if I want to go to a zoo. Both of these people did all they coukld to fabricate words and attitude for suburbanites rather than admit they are incompetent as servants of the people.
What is a fact is that this is a Detroit politcal issue. Poltics and government involve the will of the people for the greater good of all. It stinks to high heaven the top dog doesn't bother to make his presence felt.
Somebody is lying but somehow it's the suburbs getting the blame for their lies. |
Hamtramck_steve
Member
Username: Hamtramck_steve
Post Number: 2754
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.209.133.247
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 6:17 pm: | |
Enjoy the drive, Angry dad. |
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 3224
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 7:14 pm: | |
"Angry Dad" (go figure - thanks Ras) read the original post above, and still came up with that tripe? Your name and how you've portrayed yourself on a number of issues, here, seem to speak for themselves, if you ask me. |
Rberlin
Member
Username: Rberlin
Post Number: 390
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.208.244.183
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 8:23 pm: | |
For once I don't even care about the politics. I'm not a Detroiter, I'm not even in Metro Detroit, but I still love the zoo. My mother up in Midland e-mailed me, frantically, about the possible closure. The Detroit Zoo is probably one of the best in the country, if we, as a city/region/state lose this resource we will all soon regret it.
I don't care about black vs. white, Detroit vs. Oakland County, Mayor vs. City Council I just want to zoo to stay open. I don't care who the hell pays for the damn thing, it's not fair that Detroit has to pay for it, true, but you're sure as hell not going to get any regional help with idiots like Collins mouthing off. Hopefully the state will pick this up and fund it.
If Detroit can't pay for it then why not give it up to someone who can? Why close it down? Yes, Detroit has more important and pressing matters than worrying about the zoo, but if they can't agree on something this simple then good luck fixing anything else. |
Huggybear
Member
Username: Huggybear
Post Number: 152
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 192.217.12.254
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 8:33 pm: | |
quote:MLK Jr. said: "We must all learn to live together as brothers, or we will all perish together -- as fools."
"We must all hang together or assuredly we shall hang separately." (Ben Franklin, 1776) |
Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485
Post Number: 2347
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 199.74.87.131
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 12:58 am: | |
If Detroit can't pay for it then why not give it up to someone who can? Why close it down? Yes, Detroit has more important and pressing matters than worrying about the zoo, but if they can't agree on something this simple then good luck fixing anything else.
Jeez, Rberlin, it's SO SIMPLE to simply transfer power when you haven't even analyzed any loopholes or discrepancies in the original proposal. Anyone with a brain will realize that you just don't hand over ANYTHING without doing the necessary research and revisions.
Rberlin, you have just shown your ignorance. |
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 3227
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 1:10 am: | |
Maybe, you could have been less nasty, Ltorivia. God only knows how many times you and I have shown our ignorance. We should try harder to drop the attitudes in an already sensitive issue. |
Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485
Post Number: 2348
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 199.74.87.131
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 3:05 am: | |
LMichigan, I'm not the one calling Detroit city council members the "clownsil" or "belong[ing] in a zoo." We all know that the media miscontrued the entire situation. The city council never stated that they wanted to close the zoo. I think you need to pick another battle, and stop trying to defend Rberlin's or any one else's actions on this topic. |
Zulu_warrior
Member
Username: Zulu_warrior
Post Number: 2533
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.251.27.41
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 1:31 pm: | |
"....Did'nt I tell you that I had my own race to win..."
(Message edited by zulu warrior on February 23, 2006) |
Zulu_warrior
Member
Username: Zulu_warrior
Post Number: 2534
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.251.27.41
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 1:32 pm: | |
"....Didn't I tell you that I had my own race to win...? Don't make a zoo out of the issue..." |
Patrick
Member
Username: Patrick
Post Number: 3261
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 65.222.10.3
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 1:58 pm: | |
Zulu, still creaming yourself over that gold medal? |
Zulu_warrior
Member
Username: Zulu_warrior
Post Number: 2536
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.251.27.41
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 2:35 pm: | |
...why wont the Black people do what I tell'em to do....? |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 2514
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.202.227.12
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 2:44 pm: | |
lol Zulu...
That's the question they have been asking for millenia Zulu... |
Metrodetguy
Member
Username: Metrodetguy
Post Number: 2346
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.248.10.75
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 5:27 pm: | |
The most thoughtful responses on the Detroit Zoo came from the 300 DETROIT RESIDENTS polled by Survey USA/CH4.
81%: very important the Detroit Zoo remain open
13%: somewhat important
69%: operations turned over to the DZS instead of the city
45%: would rather see a cut in city services instead of the zoo closing |
Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485
Post Number: 2360
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 199.74.87.131
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 12:50 am: | |
Metro, please find me evidence that the City Council wants to close the zoo. |
Metrodetguy
Member
Username: Metrodetguy
Post Number: 2350
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.248.14.222
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 4:59 pm: | |
Ltorivia, please "explain" the excuses that CC has been putting out and why they can't keep their stories straight.
First it was the $10M that the city would still be required to pay. After that was exposed as SEPARATE BOND MONEY that was already approved by DETROIT VOTERS as well as actually costing MORE ($14M) to shut the zoo down...
...The next excuse was feeling "disrespected" and "rushed with only 48 hrs" (despite routine briefings about this matter since November) by the mayor, state, outsiders, etc...
When that didn't fly with anyone, it shifted to not wanting to pay $1M a year in insurance and security costs. When that was exposed as a standard clause anytime OWNERSHIP is maintained...
...It became the latest excuses about wanting representation on the DZS board, not wanting the DZS to subcontract (protecting the business interests of CC friends and family) w/o approval, wanting to approve the Director, maintaining unionization, and a significant say in business operations (which would basically defeat the purpose on the transfer)...
...Now that it has been shown that continued involvement by city government will significantly hurt fundraising, profitability, etc...
We come to the old fallbacks...RACISM and CITY VS SUBURBS
The protest by Detroiters and suburbanites alike, as well as the media, has forced the CC to backpeddle and try to cover their asses with a new vote. So yes, despite what they may claim, the CC was more interested in shutting down the zoo than transferring CONTROL. |
Spartacus
Member
Username: Spartacus
Post Number: 95
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 209.114.251.65
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 5:11 pm: | |
Metro-- well said. |
Angry_dad
Member
Username: Angry_dad
Post Number: 11
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 6:21 pm: | |
The problem with the original proposal was the council couldn't force the society into nepotism and cronyism when it came time to hire or spend.
So they put up a smoke screen and some people fell for it, most didn't.
If the society told the city that the proposal the council rewrote was laced with boondoggles and bullcrap and they won't agree to it I would fully understand. But they won't, they actually have the best interest of the entire area in mind. Something the council should try for a change. |
Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485
Post Number: 2366
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 199.74.87.131
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 7:16 pm: | |
Again, Metro, when did the Detroit city council state in writing or speech that they wanted to close the zoo? Stop avoiding my question. |
Eric
Member
Username: Eric
Post Number: 351
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 35.11.210.161
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 8:50 pm: | |
Ltorivia,
You can't just blame the media.You have mass public outrage over the idea that their vote has doomed the zoo and one of the first explanations is "Black folks aren't owned by white folks any more." As if that was supposed quell the anger. Council had some good reasons for vetoing the agreement, but instead of just explaining them, some decided to play the race card. Collins and now Watson have turned a finance issue into a racial one and it's spiraled out of control from there. Maybe there'd be more letters like that if they had shown some political tact |
Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485
Post Number: 2376
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 129.105.104.234
| | Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 4:34 pm: | |
Eric, Collins and Watson wouldn't have had to make it a racial issue if ignorant people didn't make racial jabs at them. Fair and square. |
Zulu_warrior
Member
Username: Zulu_warrior
Post Number: 2543
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
| | Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 1:04 am: | |
Fuzzy Zoeller
After losing the Master's... Zoeller said,
"That little boy is driving well and he's putting well. He's doing everything it takes to win. So, you know what you guys do when he gets in here? You pat him on the back and say congratulations and enjoy it and tell him not serve fried chicken next year. Got it?...or collard greens or whatever the hell they serve."
Tiger Woods |
Metrodetguy
Member
Username: Metrodetguy
Post Number: 2352
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.221.92.14
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 1:44 pm: | |
Ltorivia, quit acting as an apologist just because the CC "looks like us" (you and me). The CC's constantly changing bogus responses demonstrates their motivation over the zoo's closing. Your question was answered. Be honest about that. Just because you didn't like the answer doesn't mean your question wasn't addressed.
Again, two wrongs don't make a right. CC received hate mail after their own initial racist comments while the zoo decision was being made public. |
Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485
Post Number: 2380
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 199.74.87.131
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 8:37 pm: | |
Metro, quit acting like you're a know-it-all.
I applaud their efforts to stand their ground. I wouldn't let anyone who thinks they know how to run city government tell me what to do. They had a valid point about the transferring of management. If you rather side with racist L Brooks Patterson and the dumb hate emails, then I feel very sorry for you. |
Metrodetguy
Member
Username: Metrodetguy
Post Number: 2353
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.221.37.250
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 2:02 am: | |
Ltorivia, quit trying to back up flawed arguments with such distinguised support as the likes of Rasputin, "I'm a strong Black woman", and "I go to Northwestern". FACTS, not emotional outbursts nor extreme socio-racial-political ideology. |
Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485
Post Number: 2381
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 199.74.87.131
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 3:35 am: | |
I am speaking the facts, Metro. You refuse to recognize that. Anyone who disagrees with you is emotional and pigheaded in your opinion.
And quit using my school name as if you're trying to condescend me by raising your bloated ego. It's really childish and dumb on your part, Metro. |
Metrodetguy
Member
Username: Metrodetguy
Post Number: 2355
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 71.144.85.50
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 1:37 pm: | |
Again that's the problem Ltorivia, your arguments are usually based on anything but fact and you refuse to recognize that. Your school name, "sources" such as Rasputin, emotional outbursts, and extreme socio-political-racial ideology are all that you use to back up your arguments. This thread is but one example. |