  Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 2521 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.251.27.41 |
To support the various cultural institutions, are you willing to have an arts tax? Please vote yes or no. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1445 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
yes, double yes if it is managed by a regional, proportionally elected regional government that also oversees things like the Metroparks, transit, the water system, and transportation funding. | ||
Detourdetroit Member Username: Detourdetroit Post Number: 168 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.212.212.205 |
ahem, amen. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 9909 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.226 |
No, my city council member said it would take away from plantation funding or something like that. | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 401 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 147.240.236.9 |
Plantations are WAY underfunded in SE Michigan. Some sort of PBS special. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1232 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.220.230.150 |
Depends on a lot of other factors. I am not a big fan of raising taxes to cover up piss poor management. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1634 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244 |
I wouldn't vote for the issue. | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 402 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 147.240.236.9 |
By the way, Yes, if the city reduced our tax burden in other areas. | ||
Ilovedetroit Member Username: Ilovedetroit Post Number: 2090 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 63.149.5.130 |
I would probably vote for it depending on how it was structured and controlled. Also enough on the plantation comments. It was a bad comment BUT LB Patterson's comments weren't any better and no one is trashing him! | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 147 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
I'd vote no for the quiche-eating crowd, unless a NASCAR exhibit were included. | ||
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob Post Number: 109 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 206.81.45.34 |
I'm pretty sure I already voted "yes" a couple of years ago...and I lost. | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 2522 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.251.27.41 |
Thanks ILD, Let stick to the issue. Yes or No? | ||
Futurecity Member Username: Futurecity Post Number: 232 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.220.225.32 |
Absolutely no. Because I could see LBP and others steering the cash to "cultural projects" in Troy. | ||
Quickdrawmcgraw Member Username: Quickdrawmcgraw Post Number: 48 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 63.77.247.130 |
No because we don't have progressive thinking officials to give me an informed decision. | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 2524 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.251.27.41 |
Reemeber this deals with cultural institutions in the region, not just Detroit. The region being defined by the tri-county area | ||
Gogo Member Username: Gogo Post Number: 1270 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
There was already a survey on this a few years back. Here is how people voted...  | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 98 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 67.107.47.65 |
Yes. | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 2526 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.251.27.41 |
thanks gogo. I wonder what the change is as of today? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 148 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Does it seem plausible that voters in a city that leads the country - hands down - in functional illiteracy would attend "arts" events? This seems more like a suburban push to rob Detroiters. I smell a Patterson... | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 262 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 141.217.84.101 |
No taxation without representation. A regional cultural arts tax would be perfectly acceptable provided that the cultural instituions it funds are under the control of some type of non-partisan regional board with representation from all 3 Metro counties. | ||
Benjamin Member Username: Benjamin Post Number: 132 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 142.46.10.251 |
I can't vote, but YES. Oh, I would absolutly support this, no question. I would need to know that the money was going toward what people said it was going toward, but given that sole cavat, yes. Benjamin A. Vazquez, U.E. | ||
Wilus1mj Member Username: Wilus1mj Post Number: 43 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 216.111.89.3 |
Yes....but you need support outside of Detroit and bordering cities. Assurance it would go toward those specific budgets. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 2308 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.167.211.61 |
Not if almost all of it is going to big organizations, like the last plan, with next to nothing to the living artists who make art. All that art in the DIA and DSO and other places didn't walk in there on its own. A fund to, say, support art creation for our public buildings, free performances for incoming visitors to our international airport and the like, I could support. Simply passing out money to a bunch of annointed bureacracies will just makes them lazy and they will end up like they are again. Public money should not be simply handed out to institutions or artists. Instead art dollars should used to buy art that the public benefits from. That way creation of art is encouraged and that secretary of state office you get stuck in would not look so dreary. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 9914 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.226 |
I'd like to say yes, but I've seen how this city and region can piss money away. Living in Detroit I feel we as Detroiters more than pay our fair share. We have an income tax, property taxes higher than most, and car insurance often triple that of else where. I am now a bit more reluctant to vote for tax increases when we are already paying 67 or whatever mills it is. We are the poorest major city in the U.S. partially because we are fuckin' taxed to death after being raped by the insurance industry! | ||
Futurecity Member Username: Futurecity Post Number: 233 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.220.225.32 |
Amen. | ||
Wsukid Member Username: Wsukid Post Number: 137 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.14.145.38 |
yes And actually even though I disagree with the way the Kilpatrick Administration went about this. This could actually spark a culture tax conversation to cover regional institutions. It was interesting because FOX 2 did a cyber poll on if people would support a zoo tax and over 70% said yes which I think is promising. | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 405 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 172.157.146.91 |
Sport gets the Best Damn Post of the Day ("BDPOTD")award. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1447 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
great points Lowell!!! | ||
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob Post Number: 110 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 206.81.45.34 |
So being "regional" only means that the suburbs have to start contributing to things in the City? A regional tax shouldn't also fund things located in the suburbs? Well, good luck getting anyone to vote for that! Lowell - would using the money to help art shows and festivals, such as the JamBalaya in Pontiac, be helpful to local artists? (Message edited by udmphikapbob on February 22, 2006) | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 9915 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.226 |
"So being "regional" only means that the suburbs have to start contributing to things in the City?" You realize the Zoo is in Royal Oak, right? | ||
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob Post Number: 111 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 206.81.45.34 |
just saying that, in order to pass a regional tax like this, some of the money raised will have to go towards cultural institutions throughout the taxed region. we can't say "pass a regional tax to fund the DIA, Belle Isle Aquarium, etc." of course i know where the zoo is, and i hope that if this proposal comes up on the ballot again, the rest of my fellow suburb dwellers realize that too and vote to support it. and i agree with Lowell's comments that some of this money should be allocated to the actual art community too, but the reason we're talking about this is the zoo. that map posted above will look exactly the same if you try and sell "support your local abstract painter" to Whitey McRedneck out there in Leonard somewhere. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4694 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.175.233 |
It's almost like people are just discovering this fact this week. What a newsflash. I never heard folks complaining about this until this week... | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4695 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.175.233 |
as for me, i'd vote yes. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 2309 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.167.211.61 |
No, that is money to the organizers; it pays their salaries, does not create art. Artists have to pay fees to get into those and they tend to get filled with professional gimmick "artist". Instead the state / tri county should buy art that they will own and share it with the public - sort of like the pope that hired Michaelangelo to paint the Sistine Chapel ceiling. This will make the plan popular - here is what you got for your money. I particularly would like to see key points of entry into Michigan, like our airports, border area information rest stops and the like. But our schools, public office spaces, etc. could all benefit from some real art. | ||
Hooha Member Username: Hooha Post Number: 88 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.81.52.28 |
yup | ||
Mcp001 Member Username: Mcp001 Post Number: 2030 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.14.135.95 |
Great shades of Proposal K. And we all remember how that went...don't we? The "historical tax/millage" that was passed several years ago to help restore Fort Wayne also comes to mind as to what happens when you give politicians money for a "specific" cause. Regarding any new tax, I say: Hell NO! That's what patrons and donors are for. | ||
English Member Username: English Post Number: 494 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.7.4 |
Sent to me earlier: "This editorial, though from U of M, sums up the Zoo fiasco pretty well. The residents and/or City Council of Detroit should not be the only one's to blame for the Zoo mess. We swim as a region, we sink as a region - now is the time to educate." http://www.michigandaily.com/m edia/paper851/news/2006/02/21/ Opinioneditorials/From-The.Dai ly.The.End.Of.The.Zoo-1621547. shtml?norewrite&sourcedomain=w ww.michigandaily.com | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4696 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.175.233 |
what's with the "though from U of M" crap? yeah, the Daily isn't the greatest newspaper, but what difference does it make if a valid argument comes from a UM publication? | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 1710 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.2.149.2 |
Yes. Having seen a few WPA murals in the area, I'm with Lowell. Commision artists/photographers to make work that will be displayed publicly. In the 19th Century, it was routine to adorn public buildings with works of art. I'm not saying that we need to build anything to rival the County Bldg, or the state capital, but decorating some drab public office buildings would be a great use of funds. Someone mentioned cultural projects in Troy...that place could use some culture. Maybe they could line the streets outside Somerset Maulsoleum with some sculptures or something... (but I don't mean identical fiberglass cars decorated by different artists.) | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 2527 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
The tale of the tape so far..... Yes 13 65% No 7 35% | ||
Ilovedetroit Member Username: Ilovedetroit Post Number: 2091 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 68.40.225.35 |
Zulu - You can count me as a yes - I said probably. | ||
Cris Member Username: Cris Post Number: 363 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.227.26.44 |
Yes, if it includes the entire region. That was the biggest problem with the proposal a few years ago. It included only Oakland and Wayne Counties, and not Macomb or other nearby areas that also benefit from these institutions. | ||
Futurecity Member Username: Futurecity Post Number: 234 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 64.148.227.98 |
The potential problem that I foresee is that with a dedicated pool of money to spend each year from the tax, parallel facilites will be created in outlying areas. Facilities that will detract from what we already have. I can hear LBP now - "Oakland county is paying millions into the fund, we need an art museum, we need an orchestra hall", etc, etc.. | ||
1honey Member Username: 1honey Post Number: 93 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
No | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 2528 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.251.27.41 |
14 yes 7 No | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 2508 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.202.227.12 |
<<<yes Mos Def... So that the burbs can stop riding the coat tails of the city and actually pay their fair share... | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1234 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.220.230.150 |
The suburbs and all the rest who visit the zoo and other attractions PAY FOR TICKETS. That is their share. If the regional pays a tax to support it, then it will no longer be the control of the city. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 2510 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.202.227.12 |
yep but the city PAYS for upkeep and DETROITERS PAY for admission as well... try again... | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1236 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.220.230.150 |
Becuase the City chooses to own the zoo. And that is why Admission is not free. If admission was free your argument would hold water. Detroits also recieve schloarships and discounted prices from the zoo as well. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 25 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 67.38.87.62 |
quote: "yep but the city PAYS for upkeep and DETROITERS PAY for admission as well... " But the City owns it. Then if you want the suburbs to pay for it , then fire 130 City workers and employ 130 people from the suburbs. 1 yes vote by the way . | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 264 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 141.217.174.207 |
I get the sense that many in here (as well as those on the city coucil) want to "have their cake and eat it too." That is, they want the city to maintain full ownership and full control over the zoo and it's operations, but they want everyone else to help pay for it. You can't have it both ways. Insurance costs, security, maintenance, etc are all the responsibility of the landowners. If the city wants OC, Macomb, and Wayne County suburbs to pay for the zoo through tax dollars, then the city should expect to give up some measure of control over the zoo, it's only fair. And the general impression seems to be that a regional tax would be great as long as none of the money is spent in Oakland County. What's with the hypocricy? I have no problem with the suburbs paying into a regional arts and education fund, but will the suburbs have a voice in how that money is spent? | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 2530 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.251.27.41 |
Yes or No, people. | ||
Rasputin Member Username: Rasputin Post Number: 3497 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.220.69.206 |
The proof is in the last vote .... not some bullschitt kneekerk reaction to the Zoo issue .... Your votes were the same on BOTH, Zoo and Cultural Arts --- NO Go figure ..... Black-atcha .... watching MoFos play Monday morning armchair quarterbacks | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2348 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.248.10.75 |
Yes on a regional tax, as long as it supports entities across the entire region and there is regional governance. Warriorfan nails it again. Finally, thank you. And once again I'll add, take a look at what REALLY constitutes Detroit funds. Hint: it's not just Detroiters, nor are all Detroiters taxpayers. Funny that Rasputin wants to comment on how tax dollars are spent yet previously bragged on this forum about his repeated tax evasion. If you want to see how it could be really run well, take a look at the Toledo Zoo (run by a private zoological society). 70% of the budget comes from admissions and concessions. | ||
Gdub Member Username: Gdub Post Number: 988 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.221.78.226 |
Of all the Zoological Society donors who've given $1,000 or more, how many do you think live in Detroit? I know of only one major donor (and DZS board member) who lives in Detroit. The vast majority of funds raised for the zoo come from suburban pockets. | ||
Mrsjdaniels Member Username: Mrsjdaniels Post Number: 157 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 141.217.46.39 |
yes but i find it funny it didnt pass 4 yrs ago | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1219 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94 |
I'm against most all new taxes, but a culture tax is a different animal. I say yes, because we are such a culturally depraved metropolitan area, but for that same reason, it will never happen. | ||
Shave Member Username: Shave Post Number: 1042 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
My vote does not count on this issue. However, if I were to vote, I would vote no. Reason: great opportunity to displace the little remaining city resources. There simply is not a visible critical mass available that wants to see Detroit thrive. The protectionist mentality (protecting one's "best" interest at the expense of others) is too alive and kicking. Noble idea considering the circumstances...wrong idea considering the hardcore reality. (Message edited by Shave on February 23, 2006) | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 1822 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.47.101.255 |
I'd vote yes because some of these cultural institutions add so much more to the vibrancy of the area. Granted I'd also want to make sure that it was managed properly and monies delegated properly (optimism galore I know). I always think about some high powered exec or some intellect living in another part of the country and a local firm wants to attract them to the area. How do we do it? How do we convince that sort of talent to move here? It's not just with a huge salary- the area must also give that person something beyond a job, cash, & a swanky home. What are they to do beyond work? These people need a quality of life that museums, zoos, aquariums, symphonies and other cultural institutions can add. And on a personal note, I guess I'd vote for it because I attend those places & I'd like to see improvements on them as well. To me, if I paid extra for those amenities I'd be getting something back upon my next visit but I can also see where some people would vote no because they're the ones who don't attend or don't think of the benefits beyond their scope... among other reasons. | ||
Romanized Member Username: Romanized Post Number: 193 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 71.4.97.70 |
No. Only individuals and non-profits should fund such things. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 511 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.61.98.175 |
yes. | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 484 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 65.221.183.120 |
Yes, it is the only way to fund above average cultural institutions when you have a poor city, surrounded by dozens of relatively small suburbs. How else do you share cost? | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1655 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.238.41.167 |
No, My total taxes are already Outrageous. There are more important things to spend tax money on. Stop trying to fund your wants off my paycheck. | ||
Bluehorseshoe Member Username: Bluehorseshoe Post Number: 336 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.137.221.125 |
Yes, in a heartbeat. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 261 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.2.191.57 |
Yes, after reading Bobj's response. Note it should be a small tax spread over the large population in Metro Detoit. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 262 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.2.191.57 |
Of course you meant "culturally deprived," right? | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 780 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
I would absolutely vote yes. One of the great things that is still a plus for Metro Detroit is our world class cultural institutions. | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 2555 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
24 yes 10 no | ||
Matt_the_deuce Member Username: Matt_the_deuce Post Number: 533 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.248.252 |
Yes | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 489 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 65.221.183.120 |
I hate taxes too, but if we want to have these institutions in our Region and maintain the quality of life we have (hopefully improve it), we cannot fund them through just the City of Detroit. | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 1 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.62.19.247 |
It depends. Will the assets be regionally or city controlled? We all use these places and unless some entity outside of the city will be running them what I pay at the door is all I should have to if it is city run. The city can't ask for our tax money and not offer some sort of say in how the asset is run. Well at least they shouldn't ask. | ||
Machoken Member Username: Machoken Post Number: 1137 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 207.145.38.104 |
Yes Couldn't the 'Detroiter's zoo tax' whatever that is be eliminated so that Detroiters were paying the same tax as suburbanites for culture? | ||
Commodore64 Member Username: Commodore64 Post Number: 190 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 66.73.225.162 |
Yes, IF ALL the surrounding counties contribute. In the case of the Zoo, I would want the city to release control of it. | ||
Jfre66_77 Member Username: Jfre66_77 Post Number: 7 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 12.15.1.161 |
If the management and operations were turned over to the DZS or another entity that was politically neutral then YES. Otherwise NO. If there is going to be a "regional" tax to support the zoo, then the entire "region" should be represented proportionally when it comes to decisions of how that money is spent. I would be no more comfortable with the idea that Oakland County was calling all of the shots than I would be if it was the City of Detroit calling all of the shots. It would be nice to see ALL of the people of Southeast Michigan (including our leaders) step up and put their differences aside and treat this situation as the regional cultural issue that it is, as opposed to trying to spin it into a polticial or racial issue to further their own agendas. |
