Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Broken Windows Previous Next
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Jsmyers
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Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1448
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 1:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.boston.com/news/glo be/ideas/articles/2006/02/19/t he_cracks_in_broken_windows/

Considering some forumer's obsession with this theory, this might be an interesting topic.
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Everyman
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Username: Everyman

Post Number: 41
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 165.124.164.194
Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 1:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

it would be nice if people didn't confuse causation and correlation.

even levitt acknowledges that he's not necessarily advocating a causation theory and that to make normative judgments from those writing(s).

regardless, i have no opinion on the "broken windows" theory. i think that it may be effective as a piece of the aggregate in big changes, but that it, in and of itself, won't change things.
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 2
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 209.220.229.254
Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 2:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was just reading about this theory in regards to the Washington DC Metro system.
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Genius
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Username: Genius

Post Number: 16
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 65.42.23.2
Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 4:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have not been part of the "broken windows" discussions previously on this forum. I first became familiar with the broken windows theory about five years ago. (Another form of it is the "empty pop can" theory.) Since then, I have seen the truth of it in numerous ways. I think of it not as a "theory" but as descriptive of a real aspect of human nature.

In order to apply it as an urban law enforcement strategy, it should be understood as allowing for zero tolerance, or else you're only tilting at windmills. For example, if they decide to crack down on jaywalking, it does no good to make a few examples of people. It must be enforced ruthlessly and persistently, or it is doomed to failure. As long as there is slack in enforcement, the attitude that bred the misbehavior will persist, the malignancy will not be eradicated.
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Southwestmap
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Username: Southwestmap

Post Number: 392
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 64.79.90.206
Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 4:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When I was a young teacher, I learned from my principal that grafitti must never be tolorated or allowed to stay up inside or outside the building. Her strong belief (and she was then a powerful senior citizen principal) was that if allowed to stay, the grafitti would expand like a Peter's Principle.

I believe that her theory is widespead - zero tolerance of grafitti discourages the taggers. Does this have application to the subject above?
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 5612
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 70.236.198.22
Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 4:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wrong principle...hopefully not from the principal.

Peter Princible describes the problems within corporations where individuals get promoted to their point of incompetency.
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Southwestmap
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Username: Southwestmap

Post Number: 393
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 64.79.90.206
Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 4:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So which principle is it that work expands to fill the time alloted? That's the one I was alluding to.
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Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon

Post Number: 5613
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 70.236.198.22
Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 4:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That may be one of his others...I just learned something...went to www.dictionary.com to get their definition of Peter Principle and learned that it is NOT from business guru Tom Peters, they attribute it to a Laurence Johnston Peter.

Just found this attributed to him while searching for more:


quote:

Some problems are so complex that you have to be highly intelligent and well informed just to be undecided about them.





I'm going to have to search out more from this man.


I know what you're looking for, SWmap, but cannot remember the source. Corollary to that is how we allow our living space to be filled, no matter how much or little we have.
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Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon

Post Number: 5614
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 70.236.198.22
Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 4:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here, Wikipedia linked the Peter page to this:

Parkinson's Law

So very helpful, this web thang.
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Southwestmap
Member
Username: Southwestmap

Post Number: 394
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 64.79.90.206
Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 4:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you. Here's an apt law that I found at your site:

Wilcox-McCandlish Law of Online Discourse Evolution, developed by Bryce Wilcox and Stanton McCandlish on Usenet, ca. 1996, is:

The chance of success of any attempt to change the topic or direction of a thread of discussion in a networked forum is directly proportional to the quality of the current content.
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 1829
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.150.10
Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 5:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

..... and then there's my favorite law... Barker's Law, which states "Murphy was an optimist". :-)
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Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon

Post Number: 5616
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 70.236.198.22
Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 5:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL, SWmap.

Subtle.


True.

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