Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Detroit Riverfront - Look to Pittsburgh Previous Next
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Irish_mafia
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Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 364
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 141.151.163.46
Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 2:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was getting so depressing watching the City Council implode every time their lips moved. So I thought it might be more pleasant for people to take a look at what an old steel mill has turned into in the last few years in Pittsburgh.

My wife's father worked here when it was a mill.

We will be going to dinner there tonight in an entirely different atmosphere.

Think Uniroyal as you look at this:

http://www.thesouthsideworks.c om
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 1483
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 70.236.187.104
Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 7:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Very nice. Click on the parking link to see how the area is layed out. Good lay out of the parking structures.
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Bobj
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Username: Bobj

Post Number: 472
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 65.221.183.220
Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 7:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I heard about that place from my neighbor, who is from Pittsburgh - it looks fabulous.
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Darwinism
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Username: Darwinism

Post Number: 429
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.209.187.90
Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 8:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know if y'all should be making this comparison and applying Pittsburgh's riverfront to Detroit's. Skulker has already talked about Detroit's own plan many, many times before. According to his posts for the silo thread and the Bettis-Betters development threads, it sounds like everything should be happening soon and happening the way that the city intends.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3244
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 8:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, Detroit's own east riverfront will be an example when completed. In fact, the development process is actually already a great example of how to get it started. They've coupled public and private investments very well. Even more so, Detroit's is better described as a waterfront than a riverfront seeing as how wide the river is, and how the city only extends along one side of it.
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Irish_mafia
Member
Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 367
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 141.151.163.46
Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 9:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Darwinism, I'm not sure what you mean.

This doesn't contradict what skulker or any of the other posters have noted regarding the upcoming development, it simply illustrates what it can become in short period of time.

3 years ago, they were tearing down the old mill. Last night the area was packed with people walking through stores and eating in restaurants.

The comparison is relevant because it does exactly what is described in the Detroit plans:
Multi-use, retail, housing, offices and restaurants. The bottom line is it is done correctly in this example.

Until Detroit's is implemented, we can just hope that our version of this is done as well.

"it sounds like everything should be happening soon and happening the way that the city intends.."

That statement is scary... luckily there are outside team members (i.e. Matt Cullen, etc) involved in this portion of the city's future
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Jjw
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Username: Jjw

Post Number: 55
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 68.33.56.156
Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 10:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Until Detroit's waterfront vision is realized and created, it is obvious to look at other cities and what they have accomplished. Many cities implemented ideas and construction has been completed for their waterfronts. Pittsburgh is a great example regardless of the width of the stream. Don't shoot down other ideas until you have something to back yourself up. Detroit's plans---I am dubious until they are actually constructed. Meanwhile, visions of waterfront examples around the country such as Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Milwaukee, Chicago, and many others are great visions and goals for the city of Detroit to use for its own development.
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Broken_main
Member
Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 831
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.222.11.226
Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 10:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am sure that Detroit's riverfront will soon be an example of what and how to do, as it relates to a former industrial front. But my question is...WILL THERE BE A CHEESECAKE FACTORY HERE??? :-)
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Skulker
Member
Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3615
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.42.168.34
Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 10:36 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pittsburghs waterfront was one of dozens that was benchmarked and analyzed by the work group that drafted the East Riverfront District Plan. Their riverfront contains some very good examples what to do and what not to do. Interestingly, Betters Development is out of Pittsburgh.

Benchmarking is a good and useful exercise, one I had advocated for here many a time. However, too often, folks don't bother to get the full story behind projects in other cities and wish to force a square peg into a round hole here in Detroit. Blind copying without contextual analysis is as harmful as parochialism.
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Dialh4hipster
Member
Username: Dialh4hipster

Post Number: 1470
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.61.187.234
Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 12:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's nice! A little bit of suburbia right in the heart of the city.

(Message edited by dialh4hipster on February 26, 2006)
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Rustic
Member
Username: Rustic

Post Number: 2115
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 130.132.177.245
Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 1:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lotsa convenient parking
surface lots no less
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Thecarl
Member
Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 660
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.14.30.175
Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 5:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

one thing i would like to add about pittsburgh: there is virtually no litter in the city. walk the streets, and one does not see empty cans, bottles, food wrappers, etc. cluttering the scenery. i wish that the same level of civic pride existed in detroit, and the expectations were made known to its guests. if i were in detroit's leadership, i would make it a priority to encourage detroit's residents and visitors to keep the community clean, and assign hefty fines to those who didn't get the message.
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Skulker
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Username: Skulker

Post Number: 3616
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.251.9.62
Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 5:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You mean start a catchy campaign like "Kids, Cops, Clean"?
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Thecarl
Member
Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 662
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.14.30.175
Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 10:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

You mean start a catchy campaign like "Kids, Cops, Clean"?




well, yes...but when the "suburbanites, slave-owners, satans" campaign has run its course, like the budweiser frogs.
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Detroit313
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Username: Detroit313

Post Number: 9
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 12.45.2.92
Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 10:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DETROIT should have a bridal path on the waterfront if they have it return to Belle Isle, and connect it to the waterfront via the MacArthur, and offer horse draw carriage rides alone the river. That would be so romantic.
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Jfried
Member
Username: Jfried

Post Number: 733
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.190
Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 5:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit313 - I saw a horse and carriage parked in from of Vicentes (the cuban restaurant on Library St.)last night. It would be cool to see those downtown more often...
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Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 8
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 24.192.25.47
Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 9:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit should look to Pittsburgh in a lot of ways. It's a city of similar background that went through tough times, and rose above it. It's a city with a rejuvenated (mostly) downtown, a transit system that is fairly recently constructed, a world champion football team...okay, maybe I'm asking too much.
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3251
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 10:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's also one of the only metropolitan areas in this country that has routinely lost population over the past decade or two, despite all of the downtown revitalization. The two are alike more than some may even know.
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 9
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 209.220.229.254
Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 11:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The difference is (I don't have facts to back this up, just observation) that proportionally, significantly more jobs remain in downtown Pitt compared to the suburbs, vs. Detroit and 'burbs.
And the Oakland neighborhood with Pitt and UPMC is everything Midtown wishes it was.
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Oldredfordette
Member
Username: Oldredfordette

Post Number: 516
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 68.61.98.175
Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 11:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's not just Detroit that loves litter. Sunday mornings in Royal Oak, the streets are ankle-deep. We have this weird tolerance for blowing paper and broken glass in this area. The same in the Pointes, the same in Bham, Dearborn.

Pittsburgh has been pulling itself out of the grime for years, I'm happy to see it do well. (my parents were from there). Their weather sucks though - I think they have as much rain as the Pacific Northwest.
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Rustic
Member
Username: Rustic

Post Number: 2122
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 130.132.177.245
Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 11:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmichigan pegs it. In the big picture PIT is in worse shape than metro DET. Perhaps metro DET's fate is to become PIT, that would be a shame, imo: shrinking population, decreasing national impact, ever more dispersed metro sprawl and serial grandiose central city projects that don't stem the population hemmorage.
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3254
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 2:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Focusonthed,

I can agree with that. Pitt does have a more consolidated metro, and the downtown is still the center of the entire metropolitan area, but a shrinking metropolitan areas is not a good sign, either.

Rustic, it is hard for Pitt to sprawl like a Detroit or Chicago simply because of the very rough topography. The are is incredibly hilly. Though, some agrue that the topography simply makes sprawl more creative by leap-frogging across the many high hills and valleys. It's location is also not very conductive to growth. It is really "out-of-the-way" in many regards.

(Message edited by lmichigan on February 28, 2006)
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Emuhurons
Member
Username: Emuhurons

Post Number: 6
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 24.192.22.139
Posted on Saturday, March 04, 2006 - 11:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why not take the old trolleys and run them along the riverfront or on a line that could be built on Belle Isle.
You could use the parking close to the Ren-Cen and transport people into the newly redeveloped riverfront.
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Ganib_ganabs
Member
Username: Ganib_ganabs

Post Number: 46
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.41.123.242
Posted on Saturday, March 04, 2006 - 9:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As for the litter, maybe we need a slogan for that. Maybe we could use an owl that says, "Give a hoot, don't pollute."
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Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 19
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 209.220.229.254
Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 11:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Litter CAN be solved by the "broken windows" theory. If a concerted effort is made to pick up litter, most people will see the new cleanliness and not want to litter there. Those that are determined to litter no matter what will have to have their minds changed economically.

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