Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 What is lurking underneath? Previous Next
Top of pageBottom of page

Rust
Member
Username: Rust

Post Number: 110
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 64.118.136.130
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 11:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Seeing what was hidden underneath the modernization projects that occurred along Woodward before the superbowl made me wonder what other architectural splendors are hidden. There are a number of buildings/facades downtown I expect are hiding some great architecture. Where are they? What are they hiding? To start out is any of the original building on the triangle at Lafayette and Michigan still there? Does anybody have information on the modernization project?

Here are some photos to start this threat out.


Lafayette and Michigan from the Wayne State archive:

Lafayette and Michigan


Link to a current photo on flickr.com:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/southen/95067088/

I am not sure the rules on downloading and pasting photos from flickr. I would imagine "southen" is also on this board and I would not want to infringe on his photos as I appreciate viewing them on flickr.

How about the building kitty corner from the UA and across the street from the Michigan Theatre Building? I have long wondered about what is underneath the slick modern skin no covering it.

(Message edited by rust on March 01, 2006)
Top of pageBottom of page

Jasoncw
Member
Username: Jasoncw

Post Number: 125
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 148.61.248.170
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 12:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is that seriously what's behind the Coney Island!

Ok, tonight, we'll all go there with some chains and trucks, and we'll yank that covering off!
Top of pageBottom of page

Rust
Member
Username: Rust

Post Number: 111
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 64.118.136.130
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 12:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jasoncw,

I don't know if any part of the older building is still there. The newer building is 2 stories shorter. Is it a brand new building? Did they just remove the upper floors from the old building? Is there any part of the original architecture underneath the modern skin?
Top of pageBottom of page

Dougw
Member
Username: Dougw

Post Number: 992
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 136.1.1.33
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 12:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have to agree, Rust. The new building is significantly shorter than the old, so my guess is that it's a completely different building. (Or perhaps they removed the upper floors, but that seems unlikely.) Oh well. That old building looked great, especially the roof.

Here's a pic of mine of the building from Superbowl weekend:
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 218
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 12:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My guess is that the dirt underneath is original.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gumby
Member
Username: Gumby

Post Number: 908
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 204.39.225.143
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 12:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The only building that looks original is the one closest to the Lafayette Building
Top of pageBottom of page

Psip
Member
Username: Psip

Post Number: 1050
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 12:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you look at the top photo, on the far right is the 1000 Woodward building. This means the photo was taken in the early to mid '60's. I have been in the builings in question and they are old. They are not new constricton.
The Layfayette and National CIs have had false fronts put up to make them level with each other.
I would say the buildings in the top photo lay underneth the '70s facades. I am sure much of the cornice work is gone though.
Top of pageBottom of page

Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13

Post Number: 969
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.222.11.226
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 12:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The pie-shaped building certainly looks like a four-story building in the recent photo. I wonder if the top floor was lopped off?
Top of pageBottom of page

Goat
Member
Username: Goat

Post Number: 8155
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.71.59.140
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 1:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the roof was removed which shortened the building somewhat. Now intead of a mansard style roof, it is just a flat-top.
I believe it is still the same building.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rust
Member
Username: Rust

Post Number: 112
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 64.118.136.130
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 2:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anybody have a good photo of the Neudeck Building (I think this is or was its name) on Bagley and Third? I think the county uses it for offices. I believe this is a historic building that underwent a major facade modernization.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rust
Member
Username: Rust

Post Number: 113
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 68.43.180.171
Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 9:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well I went and retreived my own photos of the Neudeck Building:

Neudeck Building

It appears that the Facade was built on top of the old facade. How much was destroyed during the construction? From the back you can see the outline of three bricked in arches on the upper most story:

Neudeck Building Southwest side

Near the Neudeck building on Washington next to Himelhoch's is the the Clairidge Apartments, which also appears to have a modern facade attached on top of an older facade:

Clairidge front

It appears that the Clairidge's facade was modernized at least twice. The store entrance on the north appears to have Art Deco details:

Clairidge entrance

Closeup:



From the side nearest the Whitney you can see old red brickwork:

Clairidge North Side

From the rear you can see bricked in arches and rough foundation stones:

Clairidge Alley side


Over on Broadway next to the Hub is another apparent cover up:

Broadway

I am really curious to know what is left under the modernized facades if anything.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gumby
Member
Username: Gumby

Post Number: 909
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 204.39.225.113
Posted on Thursday, March 02, 2006 - 3:56 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rust the last pic was outed on a thread about the Broadway streetscape project a while back I will see if I can dig it up in the archives for you.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3272
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Thursday, March 02, 2006 - 4:16 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, the Claridge House was definitely modernized. My aunt and uncle used to live there, and it has historic lofts inside.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rust
Member
Username: Rust

Post Number: 115
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 64.118.136.130
Posted on Thursday, March 02, 2006 - 8:17 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From the WSU archive here is a closeup of the entrance dated as the 1930's: You can see the "fluted" stone work (if that is the correct term)on the third store front in this picture:

Clairidge north store entrance

Also from WSU archive here is a shot of the southeast side of the Neudeck building. It appears that it was once the home "Detroit City Gas":


Detroit City Gas
Top of pageBottom of page

Chris_rohn
Member
Username: Chris_rohn

Post Number: 203
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 68.73.199.142
Posted on Thursday, March 02, 2006 - 10:21 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



This is the building on Broadway.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rust
Member
Username: Rust

Post Number: 116
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 64.118.136.130
Posted on Thursday, March 02, 2006 - 11:21 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chris_Rohn,

Thanks, I wonder how much damage they did to the Cornice when slapped on the Aluminum siding.
Top of pageBottom of page

Bvos
Member
Username: Bvos

Post Number: 1203
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.238.170.40
Posted on Thursday, March 02, 2006 - 11:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With a lot of the "modernizations" that happened in the 50s and 60s, cornices and detail work were chiseled off the buildings so that "beautiful" metal sheathing could be installed over the architectural details.

Fortunately many of the cornices were cast iron and can be replicated in cast iron or newer materials that don't rust and put back on the building, although at a fairly significant cost.

For brick detailing (window details are usually in brick) that gets difficult and very expensive. You've got to hire a company to come out and undo the damage and then redo the work the way it was originally. This is made difficult because it's now a finished building and when you disturb one area, it inevitably affects other areas of the building you didn't want to damage.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rust
Member
Username: Rust

Post Number: 117
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 64.118.136.130
Posted on Thursday, March 02, 2006 - 2:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To the Architects out there:

In regards to the building on Broadway. At any point in time would the addition of the bland metal siding have been seen as stylistic enhancement or was it more likely done by the building owner as means of reducing maintainence costs?
Top of pageBottom of page

Chris_rohn
Member
Username: Chris_rohn

Post Number: 204
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 68.73.199.142
Posted on Thursday, March 02, 2006 - 2:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was a response to malls in the suburbs. For some reason, a lot of people thought downtowns were dying because they didn't look modern. This caused a wild trend of doing things like slapping siding over buildings and putting up covered walkways over the sidewalks to make them look like the malls.
Top of pageBottom of page

Erikd
Member
Username: Erikd

Post Number: 543
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.242.214.106
Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 10:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just can't imagine that anybody ever thought these "modern" facades looked good.
Top of pageBottom of page

Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13

Post Number: 978
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.14.122.204
Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 10:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

But they did. In post-WW II America, new was always better. It was the dawn of the Space Age. Historic architecture was considered dated, even backward.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gumby
Member
Username: Gumby

Post Number: 912
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 204.39.224.29
Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 11:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know this is in Detroit but I thought I would share an interesting a way before, before and after shot of a building up here in Flint,

Pauls Way Before
Original building in a 1895 shot that i got from my copy of "Picture History of Flint"

70's fuck up
can't remember where I found this but this is what Pauls pipe shop looked like a little over a year ago.

Pauls Pipe Shop Now
This is a picture i took shortly after they finished. I believe there is a plan to restore the other half when they find a tennant for the old Classic Talor shop.

It is too bad they will probably never restore the cornice.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rust
Member
Username: Rust

Post Number: 118
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 68.43.180.171
Posted on Saturday, March 04, 2006 - 9:13 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great pictures Gumby!! I love seeing a historic/more urban and pedestrian friendly facade restored.
Top of pageBottom of page

Publicmsu
Member
Username: Publicmsu

Post Number: 609
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 71.65.11.17
Posted on Saturday, March 04, 2006 - 9:56 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is what lurks underneath.

Top of pageBottom of page

Jimaz
Member
Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 295
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 68.2.191.57
Posted on Saturday, March 04, 2006 - 10:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yikes, please tell me that's not from jobbie nooner.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rust
Member
Username: Rust

Post Number: 121
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 64.118.136.130
Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 11:50 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jumping back to the Clairidge apartments here is a snapshot from the WSU archive:

Clairidge Old

It is the building just to right of center between the Himelhochs building and the Statler. It appears the fifth floor had arched windows on the south part of the facade.
Top of pageBottom of page

Restoretheroar
Member
Username: Restoretheroar

Post Number: 669
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 199.67.138.20
Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 12:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Public- that picture has to be from Jersey shore. That is at least 10x tuffer than Metro Beach.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rust
Member
Username: Rust

Post Number: 122
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 64.118.136.130
Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 4:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Digging thru the UCCA website (detroitmidtown.com) I came across a blurb on the former labor building. Googling on the firm that has purchased this building and is in the process of renovating brought me to this nice history of the building which reveals the extensive modernization and colorful history this building has undergone.

see pdf file on this site.

http://www.lakeshoreeng.com/ne ws.htm

(Message edited by rust on March 06, 2006)
Top of pageBottom of page

Rust
Member
Username: Rust

Post Number: 123
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 64.118.136.130
Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 12:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In regards to the American Coney island building I am pretty sure that building is the original building. looking at the building from the west on Lafayette Ave. you can see the old detroit red bricks above the shorter part of the american coney island. It would appear then that they removed the upper floors at the time they modernized the lower floors.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 1851
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.186.81
Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 11:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One has to realize that in the 1950's and 1960's "old" was out and "new" was all the rage...... the mantra was "look at all the expense we went thru so you won't have to look at all that old stuff anymore".

And now since the 1980's and post modernism, things have turned 180 degrees....
Top of pageBottom of page

Rust
Member
Username: Rust

Post Number: 125
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 64.118.136.130
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 8:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit has some great architecture and it also has its share of mistakes. I feel that these modernizations viewed from todays perspective are mistakes. It would be valuable as Detroit redevelops to have an inventory of buildings that have more underneath than on the surface. This could be used as a guide to would be redevelopers on the true potential of a building.

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.