  Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3229 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
*Lowell, you may want to make all of these threads dealing with the zoo issue one superthread.* Will this saga ever end? Racist E-Mails Sent To Council Member Police Are Investigating POSTED: 6:41 pm EST February 23, 2006 Clickondetroit.com Employees of Statewide Residential Lending in Madison Heights are without a job and under investigation for sending e-mails to City Council member Barbara Rose Collins. One e-mail in particular contained racial slurs, using the "N" word at least four times. At the end of the message read an employee's name -- Ryan Kelly -- and the contact information from his place of business, Local 4 reported. Once the owner of the lending company found out about the messages sent, he fired everyone in his office. "We don't condone this," said owner Dante Rosa. "Every time I look at this it's sad to see that people can be that ignorant." Rosa said he fired the other employees because they told him of the e-mail too late. Rosa also learned that another employee sent a message, but it did not meet the severity of Kelly's, according to the station's reports. "I apologize in behalf of our corporation, on behalf of myself, and on behalf of my family," said Rosa. Detroit police said they would seek a warrant against Kelly for using a computer to intimidate a person. The investigation continues. http://www.clickondetroit.com/ news/7377531/detail.html | ||
Naturalsister Member Username: Naturalsister Post Number: 483 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.42.169.65 |
What an idiot! Way to lose your job, genius. later - naturalsister | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2358 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 199.74.87.131 |
I told you so, everyone. I told you that council members received hateful messages in their emails. What's worse, Collins was called the n-word. (Message edited by ltorivia485 on February 23, 2006) | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3230 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
This is certainly dispicable, but public officials are more heavily scrutinized, that comes with the territory. Instead of taking the highroad and simply showing the public the emails, Collins took the lowroad, and now she's being called on it. Two wrongs do not ever make a right, though, now I can definitely see that Collins wasn't just pulling the analogy out of her butt. (Message edited by lmichigan on February 23, 2006) | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 1321 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 68.230.22.99 |
LT, I hope you told the council members not to come on DetroitYes - they'd take one look at some of the posts here and be happy with the ones they have! We are pretty good about not using the n-word, however. (Group pat-on-the-back here) | ||
Shave Member Username: Shave Post Number: 1040 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
Doesn't mean that it has not been implied. Read the boycott thread... | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 350 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 35.11.210.161 |
These dumbasses got what they deserved. That however doesn't makes Collins' response right | ||
Hagglerock Member Username: Hagglerock Post Number: 207 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 12.207.6.192 |
The owner did the right thing. I wonder how other bosses would react should their employees do something as terrible as this. My guess is not many would have the integrity and fortitude that Mr Rosa had. D | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3231 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Ummm...she kind of had to fire them because of the negative press. Imagine how badly their business would hurt if they let this cloud hang over their heads? I wouldn't be so bold as to say that they would have been fired if they would have never been found out by the media. Don't be fooled, the firings are definitely damage-control related. (Message edited by lmichigan on February 23, 2006) | ||
Shave Member Username: Shave Post Number: 1041 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
Bingo! I would have loved to see the "sympathetic" look on her face with the whiney voice as she had to "break" the news of the firing to the employees. I suspect that as this dies down, they will all quietly re-enter their posts. No big deal...but great damage control as Lmichigan pointed out. | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 164 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 71.227.95.4 |
What the hell? She fired the entire office, because one (possibly 2) employees sent racist emails. I'm all for firing the offenders, they deserve to lose their jobs and be prosecuted if their messages were threatening; but to fire an entire office of people who have house payments, kids and bills to pay is pretty ruthless. I sure hope this is just temporary "damage control" the employees who did nothing wrong deserve better (unless they had a hand in the emails). (Message edited by Johnnny5 on February 23, 2006) | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 2538 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
 "Blacks were 'bred to be the better athlete because, this goes all the way to the Civil War when ... the slave owner would breed his big woman so that he would have a big black kid.' " ....What'd I say wrong? Why do you look like that..? Jimmy the Greek | ||
Bertz Member Username: Bertz Post Number: 511 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.61.15.89 |
Zulu, you have posting some totally retarded shit lately. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 3744 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.173.163 |
Well after the Zoo debacle and the suburbantopians racial comments from the Sterling Heights mortage company. Detroit city CLOWNSIL had started the ignition for a political war. And its not going to end until recievership comes. | ||
Rasputin Member Username: Rasputin Post Number: 3498 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
MoFo's are running scared, Zulu ..... good follow-up on the REAL Hypocrisy. Black-atcha ..... Kudos | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 700 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 209.104.146.146 |
"I'd rather own a Tin Lizzy than Barbara Rose Collins." -Unnamed County Executive | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 97 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
ya know what? as soon as blacks stop calling eachother the n-word, then I will see the wrod as racist. I would never use that word, but am disgusted at blacks use of it, if its so insulting, why use it at all and if they can use it we can use it, no race has ownership of a word........I love how no one really got in to much of an uproar over the plantation thing, but are upset at the repurcusions of her statement......I am tired of we can say what we want about *whitey* but if you react to it your are racist. I call bullshit | ||
Rasputin Member Username: Rasputin Post Number: 3503 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
"Look Out Whitey: Black Power's Gonna Get Your Momma!" .... Julius Lester (1969) Missy Cleo's response is just what Lester predicted!! Typical ..... "da kitchen must be getting to hot!" roflmbao Black-atcha ..... | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 99 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
ya its typical of blacks to say we can do this, but if you do it your racist.....you all need to grow up and build a bridge and get over it and stop playing the race card at every turn, its getting mighty old | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 531 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 69.246.5.196 |
WOW, it seems like I can learn much about myself, and my family from you. How did you become such the blackspert? | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3605 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
So if we are going to label all whites and all suburbanites as racist based upon the actions of these asshats...well you just ceded the upper hand and sunk to the same level as those who label all blacks as stupid thugs because the crime rate and drop out rates are so high in Detroit... Theres asshats everywhere. Does that make all people asshats? I personally don't think so and I personally don't let marginalized idiots sway my perceptions of entire groups. | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 266 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 68.43.81.191 |
"WOW, it seems like I can learn much about myself, and my family from you. How did you become such the blackspert?" You'd be surprised what you can learn at this forum. For example, I have learned that ALL white people are racist and evil, ALL white suburbanites abandoned Detroit for racist reasons and are now trying to secretly steal Detroit back, and ALL suburbs are horrible, sterile, boring places to live. This forum is a regular fountain of knowledge. | ||
Jltyler Member Username: Jltyler Post Number: 239 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 69.212.34.58 |
Don't worry MissCleo your views on the us black folks will be more than welcome in Charlevoix.....remember don't let the knob hit you on the ass on your way out. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 100 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
thats fine cause my views come from what I have personally seen and what I have read here.......I am more than happy to move away from the mess called Metro Detroit, where no one can work together. I wont be missing much! | ||
Rasputin Member Username: Rasputin Post Number: 3506 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
Good Riddance!! btw: tell that teacher of yours that you've been playing on the computer during class time instead instead of performing the task assigned ..... exclusion-atcha too!! Black-atcha ..... | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 2515 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.202.227.12 |
Yep miss Cleo I hope your feelings extend everywhere throughout Metro Detroit since alot of the bullshyt seems to come from north of 8 Mile and west of Telegraph... | ||
Jltyler Member Username: Jltyler Post Number: 240 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 69.212.34.58 |
As if its all OUR fault that this region can't work.
Your justification of the Nigger is the most obserd thing I've ever heard. From your statement I can suppose the word bitch is adequate to describe females since women of all races call each other bitch in an endering term, or women shouldn't complain when a man calls them that since they can't stop using it.
You call it bullshit, I call it "reap what you sow". For decades blacks werent allowed in certain neighborhoods without the fear of being beaten or women raped, talked about like a dog infront of family members. Now you can't walk in neighborhoods that your families grew up in centuries ago without fear of being robbed or beaten. Sounds like irony to me.
Again your statements show exactly where you lay and how you feel. Of course someone of you like would expect the Victim to extend the olive brach, not the oppressor. | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 412 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 147.240.236.9 |
Miss_cleo, Nice post and please stay on the thread, you piss off all the right people, I often seem to do the same thing. Keep up the good work, with your accurate observations. | ||
3420 Member Username: 3420 Post Number: 44 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 143.132.200.19 |
Jltyler I agree with you 100%. My grandparents went through some hard times in the 50's when they moved to the East Grand Blvd area. My grandmother told me that the whites use to throw dead fish and garbage into the yard. Poisoned there dog, called them racist things constantly, told them to move there nigger asses out or they would. And all that just because my grandfather & grandmother wanted to provide there family with a nice place to live. All this comes down to respect, and eveyone wanting to do what is right with the best intentions. Yes this region has a lot of hate, but if eveyone keep wanting to move away from the problem and not try to help solve the problem, I feel this will stretch out for years to come. I experienced racism in Detroit during one summer in my neighborhood as a child. A white boy yelled out of a car his parents was driving "cut that grass you stupid nigger" and I was shocked because I never thought it could happen right in front of me. I'm 23 now, and I have marched, protested, and been involved with the community here in Mississippi where I attend school. And trust me, I seen the KKK and racism here for myself. Over 500 students, professors, and residents stopped the KKK from opening up shop at the 2004 state fair down here with racial intensions. I constantly see that confederate flag flown, shown, and hung all over upper Mississippi when I visit family. Now that I will be coming home to Detroit soon to work, live, and have my own family some day. I am committed to Detroit and always will no matter how bad things may get. | ||
Super_d Member Username: Super_d Post Number: 732 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 69.246.118.98 |
If I may evoke the shadow of the words of the brilliant brotha', Honorable Coleman A. Young.... 'Racism is like high blood pressure__ The person who has it doesn't know he has it until he drops over with a goddamned stroke__ There are no symptons of racism, the victim of racism is in a much better position to tell you whether or not you're a racist than you are' 'miss_cleo'........se se se see ya'! super d(motordetroit) | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 101 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
omg, calling Coleman brilliant, I am laughing so hard, tell me HE wasnt racist, LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, I got tears running down my face that was so damn funny, brilliant, lol | ||
Matt_the_deuce Member Username: Matt_the_deuce Post Number: 520 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.248.252 |
Pointing fingers back and forth... blah blah blah No, you're a racist! No, you're a racist! Watching this thing spiral downward. | ||
Hooha Member Username: Hooha Post Number: 89 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.81.52.28 |
I once wrote a post equating racism in the suburbs to murders in Detroit. Both are prevalent, but are vastly overestimated in some people's minds. But then something happens and it gets in the papers and makes lots of NOISE, reinforcing everything you ever thought. "Oh no! I TOLD YOU SO! I can't go to Detroit/The Burbs! If I do I'll be Robbed and Murdered/called a N* and have a szwastika drawn on my garage! It's in the news! That proves it! The hundreds of thousands of others that live there must also be out to get me!" An entire group of people cannot be held accountable for the actions of one person! If the schoolyard bully picks on your kid, are you gonna deal with the bully or pull your kid out of school? | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 532 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 69.246.5.196 |
Coleman wasn't a racist, he was a product of a racist enviornment. You should check out his book, it's a pretty good read. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3235 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Miss Cleo (what a name, BTW), if you don't understand the difference between a Black person's use of "nigga" and a White person's use of the same word or "nigger" you're not going to understand anything in terms of culture/race relations or sensitivity. Or, in the same way as someone has already pointed out a woman and a man using the word bitch, the same word, but with very different meanings and connotations depending upon the person that speaks. There is no use arguing with you, anymore, because you've already closed of your mind. You sound like your typical close-minded person, completely content with whinning and complaining, but only wanting to be taught on your own terms. We could sit here all day and argue the fine semantics of words and their meanings and you'd never get it. One can only hope that you will have a miraculous epiphany, and sooner rather than later. It is so much more painful later, too. Because, your lightbulb hasn't flashed on yet. I really hope that you are just a young person, naive to this whole issue and the way of the world. | ||
Docmo Member Username: Docmo Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.43.142.247 |
Here's my deal. BRC started this whole FUBAR with her idiotic and racist statement. I have less of an issue with the CC voting down the zoo proposal than I do with BRC bringing race into the proposal. I buy the CC's explanation of wanting more negotiation on the matter. I don't accept BRC's comments, though. Her plantation and slave owner analogy apprently was directed toward the State legislature or maybe the Zoological Society or the just the generally white suburbs. Whatever, it was divisive, stupid and racist. As a white suburban, I find it personally extremely offensive to be compared to a plantation slave owner. It seems as though there is a double standard with regard to racist statements here. A white person makes a racist statement and either loses their job or suffers great personal damage. Examples would be the idiots who sent the racist email to BRC, Jimmy the Greek and Trent Lott. Yeah, I know nothing will happen to LBP. His statement only infers racism in the minds of the apologists. I see an anaolgy regarding the intelligence of the CC only, not race. BRC definitely makes a racist statement and she gets by with a half assed apology. Her statement will have a lasting detrimental effect on this whole region, especially the City. She should lose her job. She has harmed the City in ways that are only now becoming evident. The apologists for her behavior on this board are no better. If you want your total black city, you'll probably get it with the idiots you keep voting onto the CC. Miss Cleo is just one of many of the remaining whites who will likely move in response to this whole issue. More contraction and less tax dollars--just what Detroit needs. I would not want to be an investor in the Bing/Bettis-Bettors/GM RiverEast projetcts right now. Who do you think was likely to move into these developments? Many would have been filled with white, suburban empty nestors like myself with significant disposable income. We are potential taxpayors. Gone. Poof. Oh, and good luck getting Rock Finacial to build downtown. Livonia is far more likely, especially with this debacle. I spent the last 9 months on a high being one the SBXL volunteers. I visted the City often. I became even more of an advocate for Detroit than I have always been. I spent every day of Super Bowl week downtown. I took a number of suburban friends into the City for their first time in a very long while. We all had an excellent and memorable time. I have watched the RiverFront/Downtown/Midtown development with great personal interest and pride for the City and the entire region. That high of the last 9 months is shot to Hell. Thank you Barbara Rose Collins and Joann Watson. BTW, where is KK with all this. I know he is in Africa. He should have altered his plans and returned home on Monday. I am a KK supporter. I believe his energy and advocacy for Detroit and the region could have helped diffuse this whole mess. Big mistake on his part. BRC has made it clear she has only one agenda. That is to represent only black Detroit residents with isolationist, divisive rhetoric. It sure would be nice if Detroiters stood up and recalled her. Unfortunately, that will likely never happen. For the time being, Northville will be a nice place to continue living. Maybe things will improve for the City with the passage of time. I kind of doubt it though. Sad, angry and dismayed. Docmo | ||
Detroiternthemist Member Username: Detroiternthemist Post Number: 13 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 64.118.149.50 |
I would deal with the bully but that’s just me. The Detroit News couldn't wait to plaster headlines of something negative. It’s like they were saying this super bowl love fest is sick we need negativity! I don't remember seeing that CC say anything about closing the Zoo. Why not just print CC not happy with deal they have pulled back in order to work things out. CC could’ve said the same thing. And then the Detroit News has a survey which is worded to definitely stir up emotions. "Idiot CC Bungles options... Zoo will close".......without telling any facts on why or what happen. Also not reminding the people that 4 years earlier they voted NO on a proposal help the Zoo. You got folks in Backwood, Mississippi talking about that dayum KK and that dumb CC I hate them all. WTF? Just makes you wonder if there is an underlying plan. | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2763 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 136.181.195.65 |
Nothing justifies the behavior of those assholes at the mortgage company emailing that word to anybody. I don't care what any councilmember said about the zoo situation; use of the "n" word is an insult to everyone in this area. There should be no dancing around, "Well, she started it." That shit belongs on the playground with the other preschoolers. We're supposed to be grownups. And people wonder why Michigan loses young people... | ||
Docmo Member Username: Docmo Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.43.142.247 |
Hamtramck_steve, I don't see any justification for the mortgage company fools on this post. They lost their jobs. It seems like an appropriate price to pay. How about BRC losing her job? I find her statement extremely offensive. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 102 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
How about BRC losing her job? I find her statement extremely offensive. Big fat DITTO! | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3238 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
She's an elected official. Detroiter's have the means to oust her either through the next election, or a recall. If you are a Detroiter, you can take those steps. If you are not, you can lobby Detroiter's to do so. You do all understand the difference between ousting a employee of a private company, and ousting a an elected official, right? | ||
Docmo Member Username: Docmo Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.43.142.247 |
I got it. I am not a Detroiter so I am lobbying the Detroiters on this board to do something about this incompetent, divisive CC member. I have sent letters to the editor of the Freep and News. I sent BRC an email--no reply, though. Detroiters would greatly enhance their damaged image in this region if they demanded accountability from their elected officials. Recall Barabara Rose Collins, please. | ||
Kova Member Username: Kova Post Number: 196 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 141.213.184.173 |
what about all those rappers who use the N word yo | ||
Gianni Member Username: Gianni Post Number: 211 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 209.104.144.90 |
It doesn't happen at the playground with preschoolers or grade schoolers. At least not at the playground where my white kids play with all their mostly black schoolmates and friends. Nobody calls each other names. If my kids did it and I found out there would be hell to pay. And if anybody did it to them I'd be in the principal's office immediately demanding a meeting with the kid's parents. But it has never been a problem. Too bad the grown ups can't follow the kid's example instead of being bad examples. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3608 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
Hooha: Well said... | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 103 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
I don't care what any councilmember said about the zoo situation; use of the "n" word is an insult to everyone in this area. I said it before and I will keep saying it, when BLACK people stop calling eachtother the n word, then it shall be deemed *offensive* how can it be offensive if the very people who cry out against its use, use it amougst themselves? To me, that is reverse racisism, ie, we can use it but you cant! | ||
Jltyler Member Username: Jltyler Post Number: 242 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 69.212.34.58 |
If thats your only justification then its clear you are a racist and I have no problem saying it. | ||
Matt_the_deuce Member Username: Matt_the_deuce Post Number: 521 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.248.252 |
Do you know what "context" means Miss_cleo? Re-read Lmichigan's post. Black friends calling each other "nigga" is a little different than the use of the word "nigger" in a racial context. If you don't understand the difference between the two, you are hopeless and part of the problem, not the solution. | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 419 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 147.240.236.9 |
What about white friends calling each other "nigga", or is that some special reserved word? | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 169 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 71.227.95.4 |
"At least not at the playground where my white kids play with all their mostly black schoolmates and friends. Nobody calls each other names." Wish I had grown up on that playground. =) "Name calling" was the most popular recess activities where I went to grade school. | ||
Matt_the_deuce Member Username: Matt_the_deuce Post Number: 522 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.248.252 |
Gildas - Feel free - but remember that it is all about context, and if you slip up and say it within earshot of someone who might take it the wrong way - then you might just have a situation. I'm white and I personally wouldn't do it - as I find it inappropriate and downright ridiculous. Wannabe street cred bullsheit. Polish people can tell jokes about themselves to themselves. Jewish people the same. When a black person says "nigga" to his buddies, it's more a term of endearment. The intent is not offensive. There are other times when black people say "nigga" to each other and it's not friendly. It's all about context and intent - just like everything else with our language. We live in a nuanced world. Common sence and some street smarts can go a long way. It's not that hard to figure out. ------------------------------ ---- "What about white friends calling each other "nigga", or is that some special reserved word?" ------------------------------ ---- Reserved for those who the word was used for in a very derogatory manner. So yes, in a sense, they do have more of a right to use it. The word has baggage, historical context, and black people being the victims of it's use have more of a right to use it and IMO have a more full understanding of context and intent. | ||
Barebain Member Username: Barebain Post Number: 1 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 66.208.220.242 |
If the word 'Nigga' or what BRC and JW said offends you so deeply, imagine having a cross burned on your front lawn, or a neighbor throwing rocks through your window, or being denied a job for no real reason, or having an eight year old son killed in gun crossfire without anyone creating a fraction of the stink this zoo business has caused... And for those of you still actually concerned that the zoo might close, don't worry, you will all be able to see the caged birds sing again. But for those whose real concern stems from all of this deep seeded anger and distrust now sprouting to the surface as a result of this zoo business, keep the faith, remain hopeful, and maybe our next generation will be able to put all this shit behind 'em. (Message edited by barebain on February 24, 2006) | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 5578 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
<---hopes to buy barebain a beer one day | ||
Docmo Member Username: Docmo Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.43.142.247 |
Barebain, Yes, your examples are completely unacceptable behavior. They are illegal and anyone found guilty of those actions should serve the maximum sentence under the law. I can come up with examples where whites were the victims of racial intolerance such as Reginald Denny getting the schitt kicked out of him during the LA Rodney King trial riots. Granted, African Americans have been the target of the majority of racial intolerance. That does not excuse what BRC said. Her comment was exceedingly divisive to this community. Trent Lott said a stupid thing in a light-hearted toast to Strom Thurmond. Lott suffered greatly for his stupid comment. He may not have lost his job, but he sure lost his stature and power within the Senate. His penalty was appropriate in my opinion. The problem is BRC blurted out a hate filled, racially charged statement and she will suffer no consequences. I have no doubt the people of Detroit will not demand accountability from this elected official. There's the double standard. | ||
Jimg Member Username: Jimg Post Number: 568 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
Barebain, that is one of the most insightful, impressive posts I've read on this Forum. Can only recall one other of equal weight... Thank you. Will buy you a second beer (and itsjeff one as well!). | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 421 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.222.64.169 |
Matt, Sorry, about the post (I understand what your saying), I was hoping to demonstrate the irony of the whole thing and the ignorance of those defending the use of the word, by anyone. | ||
Barebain Member Username: Barebain Post Number: 2 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 66.208.220.242 |
Docmo, I never intended to excuse BRC's comment, nor did I say anything to that point in my post. In fact, I found her words a little disturbing myself, but hardly anything so horrible as to abandon all hope for the city. I do hope that BRC pays a price for her thoughtless words; a price that the voters of Detroit and her fellow Councilpersons will ultimately decide. However, as you said, Lott lost his stature, but not his job (even if he deserved to), and I'm not sure that BRC will lose hers either. As for Trent Lott? His comment expressed adoration for a time and a person for whom this 'unacceptable behavior' was a completely acceptable part of life. He has paid a price indeed, but not nearly the price inflicted on the citizens affected by Strom Thurmond's way of thinking, ca. 1950. You are right, African-Americans have been the target of the majority of civil rights intolerance - I would say the VAST majority - followed by Native-Americans, Jews, Asian-Americans, Hispanics, Arab-Americans, etc... all at the hands of Euro-Centric Caucasians. If Strom Thurmond can still be a relavent figure in our country, relevant enough, at least, to have senators speak at his birthday parties, then I think we can all work hard to get past this one comment for the sake of all the baby-steps we have taken over the past 30 years up 'til now. hmmm... Friday night?... Weekend's here?... Maybe I'll head downtown for a beer? | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 267 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 68.43.81.191 |
Is racism more dangerous when it comes out of some suburban nobody from behind a computer screen (the guys lost his job and is facing criminal charges over it BTW), or is racism more dangerous when it comes out of an elected leader of the largest city in the region on network TV? Oh, and do two wrongs make a right? A lot of people in here sure seem to think so. Fighting racism with racism doesn't seem to me like it would defuse a sitaution, whether it's racist e-mails or BRC calling for a boycott of all white people because of one idiot and his computer. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2365 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 199.74.87.131 |
Barbara Rose-Collins is a racist because she does not want to be subjected to plantation-style politics? You got to be kidding me here. | ||
Docmo Member Username: Docmo Post Number: 10 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.43.142.247 |
Barebain, I am glad to see you were at least a little disturbed by her comments. I agree with most of your post. Maybe Lott should have paid a greater price for his toast. He did spend countless hours apologizing to the nation and to African Americans in particular. Ms. Collins issued a brief apology and little consequence has come her way so far. Bringing race into the non racial issue of zoo finances and management is what has disturbed so many in this region. Inferring suburbanites and the state legislature to plantation slave owners is divisive and harmful to this entire region. I find it personally reprehensible. At least Lott paid some price. We both agree she should also pay a price for her thoughtless words. Friday night? I guess I'll be staying in my Northville McMansion with a Scotch and watch a DVD on the home theater. Somewhere down the line I'll probably make back to the City for a Friday night beer. I appreciate your thoughtful discourse. docmo | ||
Docmo Member Username: Docmo Post Number: 11 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.43.142.247 |
Ltorivia485, Yes, she is a racist. Look at what you just said. Plantation style politics. My reading of history is that plantaion style politics is the brutal subjugation of race of people with almost all of their personal human dignity forcefully taken from them. Where in the hell was the CC subjected to that kind of politics? Was it the KK administration or the Zoological Society or the State legislature that brutally ripped the human dignity from the Detroit CC? Equating her treatment with plantation style politics and slave owners is messed up. | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 422 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.222.64.169 |
Docmo, I think you are thinking of a plantation style economic system, with the institution of slavery. Plantation style economics does not have to involve race, as the manor system during Europes Middle Ages demonstrates. Ltorivia485, what exactly is plantation style politics, if not the babbling of an ignorant council member? | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3240 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Isn't the term "Plantation-style politics" pretty self-explanatory? It's unfortunate that BRC didn't take the high-road and simply show the emails to the media, but there really is such a thing as "plantation-style politics." I doubt that's what is going on here, though, seeing as how you'd need elected suburban officials intimidating and threatening Detroit leadership over this issue. | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 428 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.222.64.169 |
Why bother to elect suburban officials to ruin Detroit, we're doing it fine on our own. Plantation or not. Also, the term plantation style politics is not self-explanatory unless your an ignorant racist on the city council who knows nothing of the plantation system. It's too bad we can't elect some suburban officials to help run Detroit. Is it reverse plantation style politics when officials in Detroit say or do stupid things? | ||
Wazootyman Member Username: Wazootyman Post Number: 6 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 71.65.15.234 |
I fail to see how a few emails by some idiotic white people could, in her mind, justify her statements. Isn't she just furthering stereotypes and racism by making such broad "us vs. them" generalizations? I don't condone racism. However, I think a lot of racial problems are furthered by the constant over-reaction they receive. What if these morons that emailed BRC used other insults or deragatory remarks, not racially-based? Would it have gained any press? I've had some people say some pretty deragatory things about me. Of course, the natural reaction is to fire back. But much like reacting to the bully in high school, it only encourages them. It would have been best if she had kept this one quiet, or at least handled it with maturity. I guess throwing gas on the fire sounded like a better idea. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 106 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 4.229.45.43 |
Saw this on Channel 7 last night. Kwame Kenyatta calls LB Patterson a "grand dragon": http://www1.wxyz.com/wxyz/nw_l ocal_news/article/0,2132,WXYZ_ 15924_4494236,00.html | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 432 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.222.64.169 |
I'm so happy that I didn't vote for either of these two idiots. | ||
Tndetroiter Member Username: Tndetroiter Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 24.158.164.229 |
Receivership is looming and every level-headed individual in the Detroit area should cheer when it happens. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2374 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 129.105.104.234 |
L Brooks Patterson is a racist. Doesn't anyone know of his past history when he supported Irene McCabe in the anti-bussing movement during the 1970s?? His zoo reference on the Detroit city council was uncalled for. I wouldn't be surprised if he wants a bomb dropped on the city so that he can remake it in his own image. | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 536 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.40.225.48 |
I like how the Detroit politicians, and the suburban ones have always tried to see who could be more unprofessional in public. It's honestly like watching a bunch of children. Council man Kenyatta said in an interview something like "... I'll take back what I said, when he takes back what he said...". It really doesn't get more juvenile than that right there. If only our "elected officials" would realize are public servants and quit looking for beefs, we could see some amazing things. | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 537 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.40.225.48 |
Another thing ... why is what L. Brooks Patterson says so damned important? Is the attention span of these folk ("leaders" in Michigan) that short that they can't focus on the fact that Michigan is dying? | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3245 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Because he manages one of Michigan's most important counties. You seem to forget that home rule is a huge thing, here. Remember, every municipality exist onto itself and doesn't need to have any connections to its neighbors of even its state. Really, Michigan need not even be a state. We could dissolve the entire state level of goverenment, and no one would even bat an eye. Regionalism and coming together to make Michigan competitive with other states and the world? What's that? | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 2542 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
 Why is it when Black People take a stand against racism, white people consider it racism? | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 532 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.212.169.194 |
Which ones? All, some, or specific people? | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 106 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
Why is it when Black People take a stand against racism, white people consider it racism? The same reason when WHITE people take a stand against rasism, Black people consider it racism..........the plantation comment had race in it, the zoo comment did not. | ||
Shave Member Username: Shave Post Number: 1044 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
BLACK PEOPLE TAKING A STAND AGAINST RACISM!!! Fights break out at Orlando neo-Nazi rally Police arrest 17 people April Hunt | Sentinel Staff Writer February 25, 2006 More than 500 counter-protesters held back by 300 police officers drowned out the message of a neo-Nazi group that marched through Orlando's historic black Parramore neighborhood Saturday. Twenty-two members of the National Socialist Movement, some wearing khaki uniforms with swastika armbands, finished their march with a rally outside the federal courthouse that could not be heard over the jeering crowd. The group shut down the rally 90 minutes early and left town. Seventeen people were arrested, all of them from the crowd kept separated from the neo-Nazis by lines of police in riot gear. Police and civic leaders expressed pride that the event ended without the violence some had feared. "I've lived here since 1944, and I've never been more proud of Orlando, Orange County and Central Florida," said former legislator Alzo J. Reddick, one of the organizers of the Be Cool campaign that urged residents to ignore the march and rally. The police protection made it impossible to interview the neo-Nazi members, but organizers claimed last week the event was designed to highlight crime as a "race problem." Some members of the neo-Nazi group carried signs saying "White people unite" and "white pride." The counter-demonstrators responded with insults and signs of their own, including "No Nazis in Orlando" and "Greet hate with love." Community leaders and police officials feared that the neo-Nazi march would fuel a riot, as it did last year in Toledo, Ohio. In that incident, more than 100 people were arrested then when counter-demonstrators clashed with police on October 15. Twelve officers were injured. No officers were injured Saturday. Orlando police arrested 17 people in the crowd of counter-protesters, including four juveniles, on charges ranging from wearing a mask on a public way to one charge of battery of a law-enforcement officer. Police said 14 of those arrested were affiliated with an anti-fascist anarchist group. One person was arrested after getting into a fistfight with other counter-demonstrators. "You could not have asked for a better outcome," said Orlando Police Chief Mike McCoy. "I have never seen Orlando come together like they did for this." The chief said it cost "tens of thousands" to man the event with about 300 officers from several agencies, including the Orange and Osceola sheriffs' offices. The heavy police presence included officers on horseback and a SWAT team. Some residents and leaders ignored the event and attended a memorial to Coretta Scott King in Eatonville. Organized in response to the march, the memorial to the wife of civil rights leader Dr. Martin Luther King drew more than 125 people. "If you focus on the negative, you miss all the positive around you," said Betty Covington, an IT technology manager from Orlando who attended. State Sen. Gary Siplin organized a prayer rally downtown about an hour before the march. About 40 clergy members and residents held hands and lowered their heads as police officers looked on. Some saw a positive development in how Orlando residents responded to the march. Reddick, a director of special programs at the University of Central Florida, called it proof that the city had come of age. "This was an outstanding cooperative effort between police and civilians, black and white, Hispanic and Asian, Jew and gentile," he said. Abdul Malik agreed. A lecturer who was teaching at the University of Florida last week, he canceled a flight back to Brooklyn so he could see the march and Orlando's response. "I think Dr. King would be so happy to see this," Malik said. "This is America's future, one people coming together." Claudia Zequeira of the Sentinel staff contributed to this report. April Hunt can be reached at 407-420-6269 or ahunt@orlandosentinel.com.. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2378 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 199.74.87.131 |
This is what I don't understand about these Neo-Nazi marches in folks' neighborhood. While I think it's disgusting, you are only feeding the fire if you respond to these racists' messages. That is all they want. They want black people to react, and show the world that we are less than human. Do you realize that if we ignored these people, they will discontinue their marches? ::shakes my head:: | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 3749 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.224 |
Is New Detroit mayor L.B. Patterson the next Orville Hubbard? Well his racist comments if loud and clear. He has his klans on his his side and one of his first plans to take over Detroit under recievership. | ||
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad Post Number: 13 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
Can somebody directly quote Patterson making racist remarks? CAN THEY! Absolutely not. On the other hand members of the city council in their infinite wisdom can translate his remarks into racist insults on their part. None of this is any defense of any e-mails sent to anybody but there is no doubt the phony outrage displayed by Watson, Conyers and Collins has proven it's worth as a smoke screen for the gullible. | ||
Shave Member Username: Shave Post Number: 1045 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
Ltorivia485, What you must realize is that there are some factions of Blacks that are passive and some who are aggressive. During Slavery, Reconstruction and into the Civil Rights era, Blacks were always very passive and White people tortured, killed, humiliated, and controlled the mind, body, and souls of Blacks. Today, you have Blacks who are not going to stand back and allow factions of White people to run around like feral cats and control us with fear, violence, and hatred. I don't know how closely you read the article that I posted. The article clearly demonstrated how Blacks (save a few out of many) used passive resistance to quell the hate-filled speech of the neo-Nazis. You can shake your head all day long and possibly never understand that there are Blacks out there who are sick and tired of these hate-filled groups promoting their agenda--and not on their own turfs either. Throughout history, Blacks have had to turn a blind eye to so much hatred, racism, and prejudice. Look how "far" that has brought us. Toledo and Orlando are proving to us that Blacks are not going to simply hum negro spirituals while being called derogatory names and being disrespected on our own turf. Times have changed. It is time for all Americans, including Whites, to get with the program. Just read Miss_cleo's hate-filled posts and you probably wouldn't be shaking your head so hard. I don't condone violence in any sense. I am merely pointing out the realities that exist today in Black America. BLACK PEOPLE ARE NO LONGER AFRAID OF WHITE PEOPLE. Black people will fight back if they perceive a threat. Period. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2379 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 199.74.87.131 |
Shave, I know the history of black resistance (slavery, social movements, U.S. foreign policy, and so on). However, I am also advocating that ignoring the hate (the majority of Americans today oppose racist groups the like Neo-Nazis and KKKs unlike 50 years ago) by excluding yourself from its messages is a form of empowerment too. These groups feed off of antagonism and violence. If you respond by attacking, they have accomplished their goal. | ||
Brian Member Username: Brian Post Number: 3306 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.73.32.60 |
Most Americans do not oppose racism but allow it to continue by their apathy. The kkk like groups grow because there isn't a wide spread active resistance. Only active, not passive, resistance will eliminate hate groups. 50 years ago White communities ACTIVELY resisted Martin Luther King Jr.'s message. The actions of the civil rights era and the groups pushing for civil rights are no longer marching, yet these kkk like groups still march with limited resistance. The only resistance is from the Black community. Ignoring these groups have allowed them to continue and remain. Perhaps the next time on these groups, like the one Tim McVeigh was with, blow up a bldg folks will take to active resistance. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3246 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Brian, I agree with that, but I think that we should add that we should be proactive, instead of reactive like we so often are. This same group is coming to Lansing in April, I believe, and believe you me, I'll be there protesting them if I can. The last time the KKK walked on the capitol here in Michigan, they were quite surprised by the huge (but relatively peaceful) protest. I hope this time will be the same, only even bigger and better. We don't play that schitt, if you know what I mean. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 3751 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.223 |
I'm glad those Afro-American Olympic Athletes show the "Black Power" Pride for their race. And the International Olympic Committee took their medals away. HAH! It wasn't a protest against the white race or any other ethnic race. They were just repesenting their Black America and Africa.  | ||
Ilovedetroit Member Username: Ilovedetroit Post Number: 2098 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 63.149.5.130 |
Wow Danny you and I actually agree on something! Those guys were heroes in my book - they stood up for what they believed in - themselves and their people! | ||
Llyn Member Username: Llyn Post Number: 1433 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 68.61.197.206 |
At the time I remember feeling that it was not an appropriate way to protest. Since then I've had tiime to reflect on the need for reminding the country that change needed to come and progress still needs to be made today (although I'm not sure that it was particularly effective in changing anything). Black-atcha! If I have no problem with the position of native Americans at Wounded Knee (and I don't) then I could hardly find fault with this. More powerfully, I had to reflect on the courage it took to do what these men did. | ||
English Member Username: English Post Number: 496 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.218.79.97 |
No wonder Detroit, and by extension Michigan, is at the bottom of the nation economically. There is blame on both sides. But what I can't stand is the CONDITIONAL and FAIRWEATHER nature of certain so-called Detroit boosters. They will never admit it, but in their sick minds, black folks have to be "good darkies" in order for white suburbanites to live/work/play/invest in the city... and the reason why the city has failed is because Detroit blacks weren't "good darkies." Just look at the riots! Look at the CC and the mayor! "Good darkies" would have elected the people WE wanted in office! And so on. Another piece of fuzzy logic: the idea that black people pointing out racism causes racism. No, baby. The shoe fits, and you are WEARING it. If black people pointed out racism that didn't exist... if the race card they played was fictitious... then the reaction would be to LAUGH and IGNORE them, kind of the way we do to people who say that UFOs exist. No one gets MAD at the existence of numbnuts who obsess over Area 51, so why are you getting mad at black folks? Sane, mature, non-racist adults would shrug and keep it moving. "Those crazy black people." Etc. Getting angry at us for pointing out racism flags how racist many still are! | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 2518 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.202.227.12 |
English if you can get a little time shoot me an email... detroitstylin2000 at yahoo.com Thanks in advance...  | ||
Alsodave Member Username: Alsodave Post Number: 707 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.221.73.42 |
Great post, English. | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 2549 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.251.27.41 |
English, you are hereby bestowed the Sojourner Truth Award......  Sista, Tell dat truth!!!! | ||
Wazootyman Member Username: Wazootyman Post Number: 8 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.75.220.9 |
English, I respectfully disagree with some of your points. Are you saying that any time a single idiot racist makes a comment it should be reacted to in such a way to become a major news event? My thought is that her comment is going to upset people who had no part in the original racist comment, and will further sour racial relations in the region. I don't think it accomplishes anything positive, people already know this nonsense exists. From an outside perspective, it's hard to understand how the residents of Detroit voted who they did into office. However, regarding your "good" vs. "bad", I would suggest that people in general don't like "bad" people - isn't it obvious? If a city neighborhood consists of "bad" people, who cares about the color of their skin, outsiders aren't going to want to invest. I don't think anyone is altruistic enough to blindly do so without "good" people around. Again, I believe you're turning it into a race issue where it's much more broad than that. There are plenty of mostly-white suburbs that have reputations for their large groups of "bad" people. Finally, I think the UFO remark is off-base. Nobody is going to be offended by a comment regarding the existance of UFOs, except perhaps an extreme religious nut. You're comparing a very controverial problem with an essential non-issue. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3622 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
Some did....see University of Mississippi, September 30th, 1962. Some did not. Some gave their fortunes towards establishing schools, like Julius Rosenwald. Others gave of their lives like Andrew Goodman, Michael Schwerner and Viola Liuzzo. May I point out that many posters here are falling into the trap of gross generalizations, even posters that usually do not fall into such traps. If we are to effectively root out racism, we need precision, clarity and truth. No group can afford to alienate others through innaccurate and oversimplified statements as that clouds the issues and keeps the pot at boil. (Although, ther are some that benefit from doing just that and they are the worst of the lot...) | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3623 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
Wazootyman:
From an outside perspective, its hard to understand how Oakland County continues to re-elect LBP when he has not so tenuous ties with hate groups. As was pointed out earlier, LBP was lead and very vocal attorney for Irene McCabe and NAG fighting against the Pontiac desegregation bussing program in 1971. These of course are the same folks that encouraged a Klan fire bombing of school busses less than a week before the program was to start. LBP parlayed that into a political career. WTF is up with OC voters that they keep bringing him back? | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1240 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.220.230.150 |
Do you really need to ask that question skulker? It happens everyday, in fact they already had two events recently, the shooting of two officers and the shooting at the church. This is the element those parents fought to keep out of their neighborhoods and their schools in 1971. And everytime they see it on TV their thoughts and actions just get reinforced. Add to that the schools, zoo, water dept, crime, etc. It is an neverending cycle. Blacks=Crime=Detroit, Whites=Suburbs=Racist. It just spins more out of control each passing minute. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 748 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
It's because no one has put out an active campaign against LBP in years... And, like it or not, lots of folks in OC like him. | ||
Matt_the_deuce Member Username: Matt_the_deuce Post Number: 527 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.248.252 |
Where is the true leadership in this region? Who is going to step into this void and be the voice of reason? This is Kwame's big chance. He could come off looking like the savior and the consensus builder that we thought he was from his legislature days. | ||
Jimelnino Member Username: Jimelnino Post Number: 355 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 68.250.97.237 |
This thread is like a microcosm of the sentiment in the Detroit area. Look, I frequent the forum here, sometimes I come every day for a week, sometimes only once every two weeks. At any given time that I'm reading any given thread, I have no idea what "color" the poster is, I know some of you by name through memorable posts that I remember, but honestly I don't seek out or remember details that would let me know if you were black, white, or whatever. My point is, when I come here, I read thoughts, observations, and ideas by PEOPLE who are interested in the city of Detroit, and its surrounding area. Honestly I think that ANYBODY who separates those thoughts, observations, and ideas into thoughts/observations/ideas of a specific race is already at a disadvantage when it comes to looking at stuff objectively. My $0.02 -Jim | ||
Barebain Member Username: Barebain Post Number: 3 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 66.208.220.242 |
If Whites=Suburbs=Racist, then wouldn't Blacks=Detroit=Crime? Or is it really, as you say, that Blacks=Crime=Detroit, and so Whites=Racist=Suburbs. Is it the math, _sj_, or the logic? | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3625 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060227/NEW S04/602270408
So, are all the OC residents going to stay away from New Baltimore now? (Message edited by skulker on February 27, 2006) | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 2521 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.202.227.12 |
NO SKulker cause crime only occurs in Detroit | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 269 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 141.217.173.223 |
New Baltimore is in Macomb County, not Oakland County. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 2522 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.202.227.12 |
either or they have the same mentality... | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3627 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.103.104.93 |
Warriorfan... I know that. Detroit is in Wayne County. Are the the residents of OC now going to shun Macomb County because there are bloody muders there too? (Add this latest to the sick fucks that killed the 85 year old St. Clair Shores woman in her rocking chair and used the couple hundred bucks to go to a hotel for a few days.) Or will OC residents shun even their own neighbors and teachers? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories /2005/04/05/48hours/main685768 .shtml | ||
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad Post Number: 14 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
"If black people pointed out racism that didn't exist... if the race card they played was fictitious... then the reaction would be to LAUGH and IGNORE them, kind of the way we do to people who say that UFOs exist." So all this crap about L Brooks being "the grand dragon" is a joke? Sorry but the crap is from the council no matter how you try to spin it. Face it, the bottom line in is the council made asses out of themselves and the entire baiting and smoke they have put up has just been to suck in the gulible. L Brooks owes nobody an apology. And neither do I. Those ARE the facts. | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 2550 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
Question: Who else recently has said or inferred that Black People belong in zoos? Lets list them: Describing the Toledo Riot... "Bill White reappeared in full Nazi regalia, and he was joined by Ohio NSM operative Mark Martin. Both began to address the crowd, taunting them with racial epithets. “Hey! The Toledo Zoo called, and they want their monkeys back,” shouted Martin, as the NSM members began making chimpanzee sounds. “Why don’t you go cry to your daddy? Oh wait, you’re a nigger; you don’t know who your daddy is!”" http://www.clamormagazine.org/passions/ ------------------------------------------------- Blacks in a German Zoo? A GERMAN zoo has been accused of exploitation after it unveiled plans to put grass-skirted black men in mud huts from tomorrow to show off its elephants and rhinos in their “natural environment”. […] The “tribesmen” [..] will be encouraged to carry out some traditional activities such as African basket-weaving, woodwork and various rituals such as tribal dancing. According to the brochure, the idea is to let visitors “discover the Dark Continent” with its “genuine exotic ambience”. […] The show is scheduled to go ahead despite attracting criticism from African communities and human rights activists. Norbert Finzsch, a historian at the University of Cologne, said: “The idea is a direct result of 40 years of German colonialism and 12 years of National Socialism. “People of colour are still seen as exotic objects, as basically dehumanised entities within the realm of animals.” But Barbara Jantschke, the zoo’s director, defended her initiative, saying that a zoo is “exactly the right place to convey an exotic atmosphere” and that one of the organisers is himself “a native African with black skin”, which should speak in favour of the project. http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=627152005 ------------------------------------------------- The Story of Ota Benga http://www.onehumanrace.com/docs/ota_benga.asp?vPrint=1 Jerry Bergman, Ph.D. One of the most fascinating stories about the effects of evolution on human relations is the story of Ota Benga, a pygmy who was put on display in a zoo as an example of an evolutionarily inferior race. The incident clearly reveals the racism of evolutionary theory and the extent to which the theory gripped the hearts and minds of scientists. The man who was put on display in a zoo was brought from the Belgian Congo in 1904 by noted African explorer Samuel Verner. The man, a pygmy named Ota Benga (or 'Bi', which meant 'friend' in his language), was soon 'presented by Verner to the Bronx Zoo director, William Hornaday. (1) The pygmy was born in 1881 in Africa. When put in the zoo, he was 150 centimetres (4 feet 11 inches) tall, about 23 years old, and weighed a mere 47 kilos (103 pounds). Often referred to as a boy, he had been actually married twice—his first wife had been kidnapped by a hostile tribe, and his second had died from a poisonous snake bite. (2) He was first displayed at the 1904 St Louis World's Fair, and was exhibited with other pygmies as 'emblematic savages' along with other 'strange people' in the anthropology wing. This first stop in America was influenced by what some have called 'Darwinism, Barnumism, and racism.' (3) Ota Benga later ended up at the Bronx Zoo, where he was put on display in the monkey house. Although zoo director Hornaday insisted he was merely offering an 'intriguing exhibit' for the public's edification, he 'apparently saw no difference between a wild beast and the little Black man; for the first time in any American zoo, a human being was displayed in a cage. Benga was given cage-mates to keep him company in his captivity—a parrot and an Orangutan named Dohong'.(4) Persuaded by Darwin's Theory The factors motivating Verner to bring Ota Benga to the United States were complex, but he was evidently much influenced by the theory of Charles Darwin—which led to the division of humankind into contrived races. (5) A contemporary account stated that Benga was 'not much taller than the orangoutan [sic] ... their heads are much alike, and both grin in the same way when pleased'. (6) Benga had come over from Africa with a 'fine young chimpanzee', which Mr Verner also deposited 'in the ape collection at the Primates House'. (7) Hornaday's enthusiasm for his new exhibit was reflected in an article he wrote for the zoological society's bulletin, which began as follows: 'On September 9, a genuine African Pygmy, belonging to the sub-race commonly miscalled "the dwarfs,". . . Ota Benga is a well-developed little man, with a good head, bright eyes and a pleasing countenance. He is not hairy, and is not covered by the "downy fell" described by some explorers…. He is happiest when at work, making something with his hands.' (8) He then tells about how he obtained him from Verner, who 'was specially interested in the Pygmies, having recently returned to their homes on the Kasai River the half dozen men and women of that race who were brought to this country by him for exhibition in the Department of Anthropology at the St Louis [World's Fair] Exposition.' (9) It was widely believed at this time, even by eminent scientists, that blacks were evolutionarily inferior to Caucasians, but caging one in a zoo produced much publicity. (10) In Bridges' words: 'The Pygmy worked—or played—with the animals in a cage, naturally, and the spectacle of a black man in a cage gave a Times reporter the springboard for a story that worked up a storm of protest among Negro ministers in the city. Their indignation was made known to Mayor George B. McClellan, but he refused to take action. (11) Some whites also became concerned about the 'caged Negro'. According to one author, part of the concern was because the 'men of the cloth feared…that the Benga exhibition might be used to prove the Darwinian theory of evolution'. (12) The objections were often vague, as in the words of The New York Times of September 9, 1906: Pygmies Rated Low on 'Human Scale' 'The exhibition was that of a human being in a monkey cage. The human being happened to be a Bushman, one of a race that scientists do not rate high in the human scale, but to the average nonscientific person in the crowd of sightseers there was something about the display that was unpleasant.... It is probably a good thing that Benga doesn't think very deeply. If he did it isn't likely that he was very proud of himself when he woke in the morning and found himself under the same roof with the orangoutangs [sic] and monkeys, for that is where he really is.' Although a variety of opinions, existed about the incident, it created many protests and the threat of legal action. So the zoo director finally acquiesced, and 'allowed the pygmy out of his cage'.(13) Once let out, Ota Benga spent most of his days walking around the zoo grounds in a white suit, often with huge crowds following him, and returned to the monkey house only to sleep at night. Being treated as a curiosity, mocked and made fun of by the visitors, eventually caused Benga to 'hate being mobbed by curious tourists and mean children'.(14) Zoo director Hornaday, in a letter to Verrier, revealed the problems that the situation had caused: 'Of course we have not exhibited him (Benga) in the cage since the trouble began. Since dictating the above, we have had a great time with Ota Benga. He procured a carving knife from the feeding room of the Monkey House, and went around the Park flourishing it in a most alarming manner, and for a longtime refused to give it up. Eventually it was taken away from him. 'Shortly after that he went to the soda fountain near the Bird House, to get some soda, and because he was refused the soda he got into a great rage…. This led to a great fracas. He fought like a tiger, and it took three men to get him back to the monkey house. He has struck a number of visitors, and has "raised Cain" generally.' Fired Arrows at Obnoxious Gawkers The pygmy later made a little bow and some arrows and began shooting at zoo visitors whom he found particularly obnoxious. 'After he wounded a few gawkers, he had to leave the Zoological Park for good.' (15) The New York Times of September 18, 1906, described the problem: 'There were 40,000 visitors to the park on Sunday. Nearly every man, woman and child of this crowd made for the monkey house to see the star attraction in the park ? the wild man from Africa. They chased him about the grounds all day, howling, jeering, and yelling. Some of them poked him in the ribs, others tripped him up, all laughed at him.' (16) Although Hornaday claimed he was 'merely offering an interesting exhibit and that Benga was happy...', The Encyclopedia of Evolution notes that this statement 'could not be confirmed' as there was no record of Benga's feelings.(17) Ota Benga unfortunately left no written record of his thoughts about the affair. Thus the only side of the story we have is in Verner's voluminous records, the newspaper accounts, and the writings of Hornaday. We are not lacking information about the incident—many articles survive on the case, and a 281-page book entitled The Pygmy in the Zoo was recently published about Ota's zoo experience by Phillip Verner Bradford, Verner's grandson. 'Freak' Label Leads to Suicide After Ota Benga left the zoo, he was able to find sympathetic care at a succession of institutions and with several sympathetic individuals. But he was never able to shed his 'freak' label. Employed in a tobacco factory in Lynchburg, Virginia, Ota Benga grew increasingly depressed, hostile, irrational, and forlorn. Concluding that he would never be able to return to his native land, in 1916 Benga committed suicide by shooting himself with a borrowed pistol. The story of his suicide was published by Hornaday in a 1916 Zoological Bulletin. Even at this late date, Hornaday's evolution-inspired racist feelings clearly showed through. He even stated that 'the young negro was brought to Lynchburg about six years ago, by some kindly disposed person, and was placed in the Virginia Theological Seminary and College here, where for several years he labored to demonstrate to his benefactors that he did not possess the power of learning; and some two or three years ago he quit the school and went to work as a laborer' (emphasis mine). (18) Hornaday then recounts that, after leaving college, Ota lived at a 'colored home' near the school, earning his livelihood by working as a laborer in a tobacco factory. In Hornaday's words, the suicide was committed because 'the burden became so heavy that the young Negro secured a revolver belonging to the woman with whom he lived, went to the cow stable and there sent a bullet through his heart, ending his life.' The story of Ota Benga is one of the many tragic fruits of evolutionism. But it is one which contains a lesson in helping us to realize the importance of the Christian teaching that all men are brothers, all descendants of Adam and Eve. If all Christians had stood up for creation at the outset of the Ota Benga incident, this horror story of evolutionary racism might have been averted.  Ota Benga | ||
Bertz Member Username: Bertz Post Number: 527 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.61.15.89 |
"This is Kwame's big chance" he has had so many chances and "droped the ball" every time, why is this one any different? | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 986 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 136.2.1.153 |
A rather lengthy (and somewhat off-topic) tangent from Zulu about Ota Benga, but still fascinating. It is interesting how these "evolutionists" basically co-opted Charles Darwin's theories to try to say that blacks were evolutionarily inferior to whites, even though there was really no evidence behind that claim. See Stephen Jay Gould for more background. Using the some of the same simplistic logic, one could argue that whites were evolutionarily inferior to blacks... chimpanzees have basically the same skin color as Caucasians, for example. Also, Caucasians tend to have more body hair than Africans, which would seem to place them closer on the evolutionary scale to monkeys than Africans are. Anyway, don't blame Charles Darwin for that mess. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 371 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.221.79.80 |
Ok, So maybe they belong in jail instead of the zoo... either way, put them somewhere where they can cause no more harm! Perhaps, the timeout room in a nursery school? | ||
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad Post Number: 15 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
"Question: Who else recently has said or inferred that Black People belong in zoos?" You did, L Brooks said the council belonged there for their asinine attitudes and general incompetence. Is the entire council African? Care to take your foot out of your mouth now or are you going to blow more smoke? You see unlike the sound bites that the media gives, this is a message board that shows no race or gender. Wouldn't it be nice if the council could act like this board? Why can't they? | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3249 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
WTF? This board is a zoo more often than not, if even a necessary one that hashes out a lot of issues. | ||
Innercity_detroit Member Username: Innercity_detroit Post Number: 1 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 4.165.105.126 |
Its a shame that whites keep racism alive and well.A perfect example is the hate e-mail to the councilwoman,and if the situation would have been reversed madison heights would be preparing for a lynching. (Message edited by innercity_detroit on February 27, 2006) | ||
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad Post Number: 17 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
"Its a shame that whites keep racism alive and well.A perfect example is the hate e-mail to the councilwoman,and if the situation would have been reversed madison heights would be preparing for a lynching." Bullshit, any repercusions for the remarks made by council? None. Any results for the idiotic e-mail sent? Yep "whitey" lost their job. If anything racism is kept alive by politicians (notice no race given) to cover their incompetent asses. | ||
Shave Member Username: Shave Post Number: 1046 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
"...And, like it or not, lots of folks in OC like him." Or is it lots of folks in OC are like him? No human being belongs in a zoo. Zoos are "cultural" attractions. Zoos are where animals are held captive, against their will, for mere human entertainment. I wonder who came up with this concept anyway? It seems a bit sinister to me. To suggest that a human being should be held where even animals should not be held is troubling. Many had a difference of opinions regarding the zoo issue as well as statements made by Detroit City Council members. Why use the convenience of statements made by Councilpersons Watson, Collins, Conyers, or Kenyatta's to make derogatory analogies between civilized human beings and animals? Proverbs 23:7 (King James version) states: "For as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he..." Matthew 12:34-37 34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36 But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Matthew 15:18-19 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts... Luke 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. James 3:1-12 1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation. 2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body. 3 Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body. 4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth. 5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! 6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. 7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: 8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. 9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. 10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. 11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? 12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. (Message edited by Shave on February 27, 2006) | ||
Super_d Member Username: Super_d Post Number: 735 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
All this foolishness coming from y't'__reeps of hubris, arrogants and unabashed temerity!__ manipulating the truth to articulate their perspective, shape by their own prescriptions....go figure! peep dis... "If you use a people to develope a nation you are fearful of them later on because of the power they possess". heard,NOI Will somebody remind y't'__ we built this country. From the rawhide whip of the oversee'er, in the mist of the hot humid sun drenched cotton fields... we built this country metaphysically, physically, substantially, and symbolically. step back y't'__ we gaining on ya! super d(motordetroit) |
